Hi Love Goddess,

I am fairly new to the world of TER and reviews. I do truly enjoy what I do and this reflects positively in my reviews. However, everytime a new review is posted, I receive an email from a past hobbyist telling me how bothering it is for him to read the details of my passionate sessions. He has admitted that he cares for me more than he should and he is confused about the emotions he is feeling. He also goes on to question the integrity of our genuine friendship and wants to know if being friends w/him is just part of the overall provider 'experience'.

I do genuinely care for this gent. He has known me from the very beginning of my career and I would consider him a close friend. He has also been very honest about not wanting to be in a serious monogamous relationship with me.

How do I respond to my friend and let him know that our friendship is real for me?  How do I deal with his jealousy issues when I enjoy myself  with other hobbyists?

Thank-you for your wisdom and time.

My dear The_HappyHooker,

Welcome to the world of TER and the wonderful world of reviews! I hope you get many high scores and become very successful! Now that's said, and we should get into the nitty-gritty of being a provider...which means that you, just like the hobbyists, need to create some healthy BOUNDARIES for yourself, in order to stay sane.

If this particular client has "admitted that he cares" for you more than he should and is confused, then you'll need to step in and protect both him and yourself from the relationship becoming a real problem. Clearly, he's NOT capable of being "just friends." He has been quite obvious about it. Hence, it's going to be difficult for you to maintain a friendship stance with him. It's the same in any relationship where a guy is in love with a woman and she's not in love with him. Ask yourself if there were no money involved - would you have sex with a guy you're not into, even if he were into you? Probably not. Even if he was your "friend."

So you'll have to lay down the law. It's as simple as that. Next time he starts in on you because of some new review popping up, give him ONE CHANCE to shut up. If he doesn't, then terminate him as a client. Because he's your client first, and "friend" last. And for the future, please don't get roped in with all this "friends" business. Ask yourself this question brutally and honestly: if he weren't paying you, would you be hanging out on your own private time? Would you be calling each other, supporting each other through thick and thin and taking a genuine interest in each other's lives? Like true friends?

We've had this come up on the Highway many times. Now, this is ONLY MY OPINION, but I don't believe in providers and hobbyists getting too chummy. Of course there are exceptions, but when all is said and done, this is a business. A fucking business.

There, I said it. And if you don't believe me, check out this thread from the General Discussion board,
The Love Goddess

If he has those feelings for you, he should not be reading your reviews.  Also, if he told you he doesn't want a monogamous relationship with you, I don't understand why he is so bothered reading your reviews 'juicy details'.  To me that's kind of an oxymoron.  

I also don't understand he feels why your friendship should have any bearing on your job as a provider or vice-versa.  Not all providers have close friendships with many of their clients, as it often leads to your situation.  His jealousy is his problem, not yours.  I think all you can do is tell him he is more than a client to you, and if he can't handle your profession, that is also his problem, not yours.  

He is sending contradictory messages to you, IMHO.  He wants to see you as a provider, wants you as a friend, claims to not want a monogamous relationship, yet is jealous of you seeing other clients?  Seems to me, there is more to his feelings than he is telling you.  

I have a small number of providers whom I consider to be friends, and I no longer read their reviews.  I prefer to think of them as friends and don't want to read about what they are doing with other guys.  I still see them professionally as well from time to time.

Swim

Dear blues6314,

You just defined the parameters of prostitution. The sexual act in prostitution becomes a commodity, however, this doesn't mean that we need to see women working as prostitutes as commodities. That's where a different kind of compartmentalization comes in - understanding that the act itself is available for a price, but not the person performing it.

The provider is NOT her labor - you can't "be" an act that you perform. Does a waitress or waiter 'become' his or her job? Hardly. In addition, being a provider doesn't have to "become a defining part of her life." Providers aren't just providers - they are wives, girlfriends, mothers and also active in other professions. Selling a sexual service is rarely a person's entire life, although IT MAY SEEM SO TO YOU, THE CUSTOMER, just because you are buying that particular fantasy and only seeing her during fantasy-time.

If you lived with the average indoor independent provider 24/7 for a month or so, you'd quickly lose those notions. But the most important thing that may be impossible for a man to realize, hobbyist or not, is that females, providers or primates, are able to and have been using and selling sexual services to obtain resources since barely walking on two legs. I don't know one single woman who hasn't fucked someone without really having been 'into it.' Wives do it, girlfriends do it and of course providers do it. We do it because our sex drive doesn't match that of a male, but we want to be nice and pleasant about it...AND, as long as there is some kind of reward at the end of the tunnel. It can be everything, from the promise of an exclusive relationship with a gorgeous date, to a diamond bracelet from a happy husband the morning after, to a stuffed envelope an hour later from a satisfied hobbyist. It's when women who are uninspired have to fuck and get absolutely nothing for it that it becomes total slavery - and that's what happens when women are trafficked or sexually abused.

Just remember this - no woman fucks for nothing - regardless of her professional or civilian status. Such is human nature and I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Free lunch is an illusion,
The Love Goddess

Actually, it is quite the opposite.

Refer to The Art of Loving by Erich Fromm where he notes that respect is one of the needed requisites for being loving.

Respect would mean, in the case at hand, acknowledging her choice to work as a provider and accepting what ever goes along with that.  (Vis, having graphic reviews.)

Compare that to what is sometimes mistakenly refered to as loving:  jealousy fueled by a need to control and the whole litney of problems associated with that.

I say:  Love your provider and leave her alone when the session is done.  (You can show your love with a big tip if you really need to.)

Some people can enjoy it and some people aren't emotionally equipped to accept the premise of the transaction.  These people have no problem understanding other transactions where they pay their money in exchange for a product or a service, but they equate sex with love at some level, or even just being treated nicely with more serious intentions on the part of the woman.

But the flaw lies with the hobbyist and his inability to understand and control his emotions.  This type of individual is typically seeing commercial sex workers not for sex, but to fill some sort of void in his life.  He then deludes himself into thinking that being treated nicely by an escort is a sign they want to be friends or more.  

The escort doesn't have this problem since she typically isn't blurring the lines of the transaction/relationship.  She's in the business for money, not love or friendship.  As a result, she usually has a clear separation about where her work stops and her personal life and self start.  She may enjoy her work, but just like you, she moves on to her personal life at quitting time.  The fact that you both got naked doesn't change this.

The hobbyist may spend days thinking about her, and dreaming up all sorts of white knight inspired scenarios, but she's gone back about her business and her life.  The client assigns all this guilt, baggage, saving her from herself etc. to the escort, she doesn't do it to herself.  If she was the type of personality that did that, she'd be out of the business in two months.

It's usually the client that doesn't understand and follow the rules.  But if it's the escort, be very careful, because it means she is after something bigger.  And don't flatter yourself, it's rarely her client's friendship that she would be seeking.  You're a nice guy that gives her money, and she'd much prefer that to a guy she doesn't like that gives her money.  But in the end, you're only there because you're giving her money- it's a simple concept.

LG has pulled back the curtain on female sexual motivations and how they differ from those of men.  It's something a lot of men don't want to accept as fact because it destroys the ideal image of femininity that they embrace.  Plus, it diminishes their own self-image to think that escorts, and women in general, aren't having sex with them because they're such great guys, but rather for what they might be able to obtain from fucking them.  

Men think women are far more perfect than they are, but women know better.  Men look at female beauty and confer upon it all sorts of other attributes- a behavior called transference.  Pretty women are viewed as being smarter, having a better sense of  humor, more fun to be with etc..  Then after we do this, we're shocked when some  beautiful woman suddenly reveals herself to be a moron or just plain mean.  But men labor under this delusion at their own risk and pay a high price for their lack of objectivity.

My point is, hobbyists do this all the time.  Escorts are typically more attractive than the average women, they're far more tolerant of male imperfections (remember, they're being paid), and far more interested in having sex with you (remember, they're being paid) , and far better in bed (remember, they're being paid).  And they like you so much, they'll even treat you like the great guy that you are (remember, they're being paid).

In response to all of these great things escorts do for us, the hobbyist in question then takes this big leap and assigns to them all sort of other things that he believes to be true, but are of his own imagining.  Based on their pleasant time together she must want to be my friend, we had something special, she might even grow to love me if she sees what a great guy I am, she must have feelings for me because I could see it in her face when we had sex, her work must eat her up emotionally because how could she see another guy after we shared something so special.  

Blah, blah, blah.  This board is filled with the whining mew of guys who don't understand themselves, their emotional needs,  or the business of commercial sex work.  They assume women must be like men, because men need to attracted to someone in order to get an erection.  Therefore, if a woman has sex with them, she must like, or even love them.  But the last time I looked, getting an erection wasn't an issue for women.  And the ability to have sex for a wide range of motivations other than love or even attraction, is a uniquely female characteristic and ability.  The quicker men figure this out, the sooner they'll stop making fools of themselves with escorts, and start enjoying (and accept at face value) the great service these ladies provide us.

Sorry, blue6314,

I'm not a Marxist and will never be. The tired argument about people not being separated from their act has been going on since Hegel et al., and I don't agree with it, pure and simple. So to you that may be incorrect, but not to me and others who ACTUALLY ARE PROVIDERS. Go ask them what they think and you'll get a different answer. Last time I checked, neither Marx nor other philosophers had chosen to fuck for a living.

To you I'm cynical - to an evolutionary psychologist/theorist, or even to an economist who subscribes to exchange theories - I'm reasonable. I don't pretend that prostitution is a bed of roses, but according to your logic, women are somehow creatures who deserve some special type of "kindness." In that case, I believe that MEN who perform much more dangerous and dirty work than screwing a bunch of middle aged flush guys from TER (I've got the stats on that, so please don't argue with me) are being way more imperiled. Ask miners, concrete pumpers and others in 3D jobs (see link.)

Yes, I think providers' PERFORMANCE and APPEARANCE should be reviewed. Last time I checked, America loves to do so in every possible way.

I try not to get morality and emotion confused with logic. And, since this is not a forum for debate, I'm closing it now. I refer you to the readings of Elizabeth Bernstein or Teela Sanders for further reference. Also see Richard Symanski.

PS - I do feel sorry for you - it must be difficult to pay women to have sex with them if you feel so conflicted about it. May I suggest that your post has a bit of hypocrisy in it? If you think it's so bad, then stop participating in the system.

Case closed,
The Love Goddess

which is the ball park that all great philosphers like to play in.

However, down here on earth, LG's comments make much more sense.

As an example, when Alec Guiness would leave the theater for the night, Scotland Yard would not show up and arrest him for murdering King Duncan.

No matter how many times Mr. Guiness would play that role, he would not become it.

Such is the role of the provider.  It's a gig.  Good providers keep a healthy seperation for the good of all of us.

Are you the only provider he has ever seen? If not, ask him how many other women that he once paid for sex have maintained a relationship with him after he stopped being a client.  I'm willing to bet the percentage is pretty small.

It's pretty clear to me that this guy is in love with you.  Why on earth is he reading your reviews if it bothers him so much?  I think he needs to gain some perspective on your relationship and the only way to do this is for you to be honest with him about what the two of you can and can not mean to each other.  If he is truly your friend he would be happy for your success and simply not read the reviews if they bother him.

As a client who has seen multiple providers and has gotten romantically involved with a former provider, I have to point out a few misconceived notions about your posting.

I have been seeing a former provider (and I recently posted here about my situation).  We've been spending more and more time together and although I sometimes help her out a bit financially, I believe she is not in a relationship with me for financial gain.  

She genuinely enjoys going out and often asks to get together because she wants to see me.  When we get together, she usually wants me to stay as long as possible.  This weekend, we got together on Friday afternoon for lunch and I woke up this morning and told her I should get going.  She convinced me to stay a little while longer and told me she wanted to get some lunch with me.  By the time I said goodbye to her, it was after 4pm and she was still saying she was upset because she wished we could go to the park and enjoy the nice weather today.

Sexually, it is definitely easy for a woman who doesn't really want to have sex with a guy or is not turned on by a guy to still have sex with him because of other motivations such as financial gain.  But this former provider genuinely seems to desire a sexual relationship with me.  It's possible to tell if a woman is truly aroused. She gets very very wet if she starts touching me and fooling around with me, especially when I am kissing her, sucking on her nipples or kissing her neck.  She basically loses control when I start kissing her.  

I've been with women who I could tell were not really turned on (escorts as well as former girlfriends.  They were not wet for me, the sex was rushed, and I could tell the girl was really just trying to please.  There is a major difference and I believe I'm fairly good at picking up on these cues.  I think many other guys can pick these things up as well.

The statement, "But in the end, you're only there because you're giving her money - it's a simple concept" is definitely not correct in every case.  There is no way for you to know every woman's motivation.  Providers are human too and sometimes develop emotional feelings for guys who were once their clients.

when we finally had an argument and broke up.  "I knew I should have never dated a client!"  And this after we were a regular BF/GF couple- dinner dates and sleep overs 3 or 4 nights a week and weekends at my house or her house, just like any other dating couple.  

Six years is longer than a lot of marriages last, and certainly longer than a most relationships.  But when the gloves came off, I was still just a client in her eyes, even though I hadn't paid her for all those years.  Now, I know that was just a convenient rationalization for her, but usually the words that come out during passion or anger reflect our deeper feelings.

I dated another woman I met as a provider for about 4 years- off the clock, no money exchanged.  But when I lost my high paying job and sold the beautiful house she had hinted she one day hoped to live in, she left in a hurry.  In fact, she left as soon as she came over and saw the For Sale sign.  I barely got a chance to explain the situation.

So don't lecture me, tmag, about dating providers and how they're all different.  Of course they are, just like all the other people on the planet.  And I've had more than enough experience to know what's different about them  But I also know what's the same too, and that's what my posts are about.  

I'm way more experienced than most of the guys on TER and I've learned a lot of things the hard way regarding this activity and the men and women who participate in it.  Unlike a lot of people who post on this site, I only post from personal experience.  If I don't know it to be true I keep my mouth shut.

I also saw and learned things in the pre-internet/TER era that all the sweet little newbies of today can't even imagine.  I've had a gun pulled on me, I've been robbed at least five times, I've had to hire a private detective, an attorney, I've had cops at my door, I've avoided two police stings in OC, and missed another one by less than a few hours, etc. etc.  This activity is, after all, still against the law.

Which is why guys of my age and experience group don't act like a bunch of moonstruck pussies when a woman we've paid to fuck us asks us to stay for a glass of wine or treats us well in some other way.  Or why we don't act like whining little bitches when her pictures aren't exactly accurate or she isn't precisely like the type of woman you thought you were ordering out of the escort catalog as you read the reviews.

We've seen what this whole business is really about and we don't have any delusions.  We're grateful when things go well, but we're not surprised when they don't.  And through all of it, we keep our heads on straight because keeping your wits about you is all that protects you.  This, and this alone enabled me to avoid two police stings with incall escorts that had reviews on this site, but had been turned by LE.  I used my brain, not my dick, to do my thinking

As for  the rest of the guys on this site who haven't yet earned their battle stripes in the real world, my suggestion continues to be wake the fuck up and quit acting like TER is Facebook or My Space.

She has not ever charged me when we spend time together, except for the one time I saw her as a client at the agency she worked at.  She will often insist upon paying for dinner or taking me out when we are together.  She'll sometimes even tell me she wants to buy something for me if we are at the store.

I could understand your point of view after the provider you met left because of you selling the house.  I would agree that a majority of providers who date a former client are looking for financial gain or looking for a way out of their current life.

However, the woman I've been dating seems sincere in her interest in a relationship with me.  She does not ask me for money and insists upon paying for dinner when we go out.  She sometimes asks for help with her English studying (writing/grammar), and these things I am very happy to help her with.

Maybe her situation is different because she was only a provider for a month at an AMP incall.  She said she felt like a prisoner there and decided she did not want a life like that.  She said it bothered her that some of the other escorts who she knew from there actually enjoyed the work they were doing and had worked there for a long time.  In fact, she refuses to associate with these other providers because she does not want to be involved in that life.

I can best relate to what G2 recently posted:

"Which is why guys of my age and experience group don't act like a bunch of moonstruck pussies when a woman we've paid to fuck us asks us to stay for a glass of wine"

I clearly need to work on my professional boundaries and appreciate all the advice that has been offered.

Thanks again!

Enjoy the good times, and forget the bad.

-- Modified on 11/16/2009 7:26:05 AM

-- Modified on 11/16/2009 10:06:20 AM

Yes, I am the one you gave advice to the other day, but I did not decide I was definitely going to China with her.

this board is strictly pro bono and for all to enjoy. Please ask your question here so that others may get the benefit of an answer or the possibility of commenting on your post.

Thank you
The Love Goddess

If you keep spouting out this truth-from-experience stuff, we might just see a noticable decline in the "Help-I've-Fallen-For-A-Provider" posts.  Okay, maybe that is a little crazy, but someone out there may think twice before pledging lifelong devotion to a person that they only know through a sequence of single-hour trysts.  Then, where will we all be with our popcorn and no show to watch?

G2 ranted crazily:
"If I don't know it to be true I keep my mouth shut."

THIS is exactly what I am talking about!  There is no place for this kind of deranged nonsense here on TER.  Are you trying to put the Love Goddess out of business!?!