Ok so this is really weird, but in many of the relationships that I have been involved, it appears that the women, Always, turn things around and the blame is placed at my feet.
My ex wife did this during our divorce, in which she made charges that I was abusive, controlling,
and never emotionally in the marriage.
When the dust settled, she had her parental rights
terminated, and the custody evaluator, termed her
unstable, and abusive, and controlling.

Then it was the same with an ex girl friend, who
was by her own admission, controlling, but when we
broke up, I had to get a restraining order on her,
as she would not leave me alone, and stalked me,
and for over a year, made countless, prank phone calls, in which she would call and then hang up on me, (I got the cops to get the phone records
from the phone company) which led back to her.

Then I have this past event in which things get
turned around, and I am supposed to once again
be this controllling bully, liar, and unstable?

What is it with all this turning things around
L.G.?
In each instance, what I am accused of, is in fact the traits of my accusers, how does this work
in their minds?

Confused T2? LOL

Well L.G. Day has bought about a good point.
So if I may impose upon you, to briefly, provide your knowledge to my original question, and then
provide me with an idea of passive/aggressive
behavior, traits?

Thanks
T2

Dear Trooper2,

"Passive-aggressive behavior" is a term that has become popularized in the media and among laypeople during the past twentyfive years. It concerns behavior that has aggressive ideation/acts as its root, but is not "actively" aggressive or "acting-out". The term can be seen as an antonym to "active-aggressive" behavior (although there isn't really any such term.)

It is my opinion that "passive-aggressive" behavior is engaged in by individuals who have fear of conflict and confrontation (for whatver reason.) Simple case illustration:

You are in a relationship with someone. The person is driving you insane. You don't want to be in the relationship, but don't have the guts to come out and take active responsibility for your feelings and say so. Hence, instead of "acting out," or "actively" showing your displeasure with the person, you start doing and saying things that on the surface may seem harmless and perhaps even "victimlike" or "martyred," but in turn drive the other person nuts. The other person may act out toward you in the relationship in an "active-aggressive" manner, at which point you may turn around and state incredulously, "Gee, I don't know WHY you are saying/doing these things. You are so mean/unbalanced/weird/evil, etc. I'm so nice and kind and all this is coming from nowhere. I'm feeling very victimized and I'm leaving."

It is truly impossible for me to answer your original question, since we haven't heard from "the other party," so to speak. But it must be said that in spite of all the passive-aggressive behavior in the world, some individuals labeled "passive-aggressive" [often women] are truly damaged since childhood, and they have not had the opportunity to repair their psyches or build an authentic self that they respect and care for. Many fractured and psychically injured individuals end up in relationships over and over again which repeat the abuse they sustained [in some form or other] because there is a faulty and injurious pattern set since childhood to seek out an abuser, create an abusive pattern - BY ENGAGING IN PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE ACTS, UNWITTINGLY - and then recreate the abusive cycle. In domestic violence, individuals can end up in "the cycle of violence," simply because they have not been exposed to good and constructive parenting in childhood.

For those who don't know, the "Cycle of Violence" consists of the following three stages.

Tension or Build Up (Phase 1)
Increased tension, anger, blaming and arguing. This phase may last a week, months, or years. It usually becomes more frequent as the cycle is repeated. It typically involves an increase in verbal and minor physical abuse. Sometimes this is enough to frighten the victim into submission. The victim knows what will happen if he/she does not comply. At this point the victim may be amenable to sources of help.

Battering Incident (Phase 2)
Battering-hitting, slapping, kicking, choking, use of objects or weapons. Sexual abuse. Verbal threats and abuse. During this phase the batterer loses the desire or ability to control his/her anger and violence. The batterer learns that this type of action helps to "relieve stress" and "change behavior". Just following this episode the batterer and the partner are most likely to seek help. The partner is hurt and scared, and the batterer is feeling ashamed, guilty and humiliated.

Calm or Honeymoon Stage (Phase 3)
This stage may decrease over time. The batterer may deny violence; say he/she was drunk, say sorry and promise that it will never happen again. The victim is least amenable to help at this point. However, the batterer may be most open to help at the start of this phase because typically, he/she is remorseful and wishes to please (keep) the partner. At the peak of this stage both parties may deny or distort what has occurred.

Then, Phase 1 begins again... The truth is that change is unlikely unless the victim gets help. The victims want to believe the abuser when they promise it will never happen again, but in most cases it does. It not only recurs, but escalates each time. Studies indicate that most abusers who seek professional help do so only after their partners have left. Otherwise, they have no incentive to change.

Trooper 2, I assume you are in therapy or have been. If not, then I suggest you continue examining your past and present with the help of a professional. Labels are interesting and provide a "snapshot" of what may have happened, but in terms of finding causes, investigation must go beyond these terms...

Take care of yourself,
the Love Goddess

Thanks for sharing this with me.
L.G. and Day, and anyone else who reads this.
I am a kind person, and an understanding person.
But As someone who was a victim of abuse, I don't play the victim role.
I am an open and honest person, I am assertive,
and able to stand my ground.
I am not prone to abuse others, but more so prone to allow others to abuse me. That was the case long ago, But I am quite healthy in that I do not allow others to abuse me, or bully me.
If I feel threatened, or abused, I walk away.
When others manipulate me, and I say stop, I mean just that! When I say NO! I mean just that.
Would you rather that I kick your ass, or walk away?
If I confront you and if we cannot reach a compromise, then I walk away.
I will do my part to give equally, and with respect, but I will not accept disrespectful
behavior, nor bully tatics.
The provider who I had seen over some time,
shows signs of passive/aggressive behavior.
Does this make me the abuser? I think not.

It takes two to tangle, but if you lack the back bone to stand face to face with me, and deal with
me in a respectful and considerate manner, I will
walk away. Or ignore.
I don't take crap from arrogant, insecure people,
who hide behind sweet talking masks, but then come out to fight when my back is turned.
I would rather not fight, as I strive to find
compromise, and peace.
So this is why I always wonder why is it that these kind of people always chase after me, in an
attempt to even the score?

I make every attempt to see to it that I am fair in my dealing with others, and believe me, I am
a very fair man.
But I am not about to give away my power, or control to others, Its mine to have and hold.

I consider myself a very centered person, who is more likely to give, but willing to receive as well.
The way I view these past relationships, is that these women think that because I am a kind and caring man, that they have the right to park there needs on my door step. Not so.
I control my neediness, so they need to control theirs as well.

So I guess that this is why these women feel the need to turn things around, and play victim?
Because they are fearful of me? If they lack the
inner security to face me, and communicate in an
adult manner, it makes it allowable for them to
make me out to be abusive?

L.G. is this what I am hearing?
Does this make me an abusive person because they cannot take responsiblity for there actions?
Words, and emotional feelings.
In any relationship, I strive to learn and understand what has happened. I accept take responsiblity for my part.
In my most recent interaction, I admitted in as much, that I should have walked away sooner.
But the question remains, I did not abuse nor mistreat anyone, So why is it that they feel the need to play victim? when in fact they were the ones who were attempting to control, and manipulate?

I have to add this, In that I stated, that I felt as if I were getting set up, In my past divorce, this was in fact the case, as the ex wife and her support group of battered women shelter, instructed her on how to make it appear as if she were getting abused, and it was in fact found out
that the abusive person was her.

In the most recent case, once again, someone was doing the manipulation, and I did not play victim.
I said stop, confronted the behavior, and then finally, just as I had stated before, I finally got tired of fending off her attempts to control.
So I walked. But then she turns it around and makes as if she is the victim of me? LOL






-- Modified on 9/10/2007 7:49:09 PM

-- Modified on 9/10/2007 8:07:09 PM

Insomnia strikes again, so I took an interest and followed a few threads here and on the MN boards.

I want to say upfront I feel no malice towards you and this post isn't intended to make you angry.  

I've watched you ask these questions across many boards and you've clearly been chomping at the bit until LG returned to fire up the thread again.  You may want to consider that LG is here to provide "advice" not "therapy."

I've noticed your posts tend to be a group of random thoughts that seem thrown together in a continuous stream, but they have one common theme - you're a wonderful human being who's victimized by unstable women, whether they are your wife, GF, or a provider.  Really - one would think you want some type of medal for all of your noble qualities.

Trooper, you ARE the common denominator.  Even assuming these women are exactly what you say they are (and I don't) this simply means you intentionally seek out "broken" people to form a close relationship with, either because you figure you will have more control over the situation  or (more likely)  because it meets the need you have for a high-emotion situation that will provide all of the commotion that you crave. Life's always turbulent when you pick the storms to fly through buddy.  Look back at the moments following the devastation of your relationships with these women.  There had to be a brief moment when you asked yourself, "How did I get here again?"  That's the moment you should have called a therapist for an appointment and kept it.

LG asked you if you were in therapy, but I don't think you are.  You should be, but therapy requires at least an attempt at self awareness that you aren't showing in your posts.  Life can be better, but only you can take the responsibility for getting there.  I wish you luck, but honestly, given your current statements I believe you're doomed to repeat this cycle a couple of more times before you take the plunge and get help.  

Now I should start thinking about joining a sleep study.

No ill feellings taken by your post.
Life is a learning experience, and yes, I did wonder, what happened?
As well, I am not looking for broken people, but I am trying to keep my eyes open to broken people.

I am a caring person, but not looking to rescue anyone, or allow for others to treat me with disrespect. I treat others with respect,
and consideration. And desire the same in return.
I did in fact follow up on the list of people that
L.G sent me, but due to insurance restrictions,
I have to accept a provider (no pun) from their list. As well I do have an interview with one set for a week from tomorrow.

I do have a great sense of self awarness, but now and then someone slips past, and nails me? LOL
So another user found me and attempted to do a number on me. I did not want a relationship with her, I only desired to keep the great sex, but leave the rest of the bullshit behind, but the other person would not take no for an answer, I cared about her, but not enough for anything but a client provider relationship, because I did not care for her personality, But I realized
that she would cut me off if I stated so.
I did what had to be done, and walked.

I am proud of the fact, that I seen something really twisted, and made my way toward the door.
I am far from a victim, In that I was able to
step back and away, because someone was attempting to use me. I required another creditable observation, (Thanks L.G. and others,) in which I could trust, so that I could take further action.

I do want to thank everyone for there input,
and you can count on it, that I am going to take care of Troop!
Everyone keep safe!

-- Modified on 9/11/2007 1:53:04 PM

Is that we do bring into our lives that which we think about and dwell on.  If you are constantly thinking "I DON'T want this to happen again" your thoughts are dwelling on the negative rather than the positive....... and that is what you will attract into your life.  If you change your thinking to include I DO WANT this......and I DO want that....... and you make room in your life for what you DO want, it will be provided you.  Yes, I am a huge believer in the law of attraction.... as per the book "The Secret".  A wealth of information to be taken at ones own pace.  I wish you the best of luck with your relationships in the future.

Kat, Thanks! I am generally a positive person, by myself and with other positive people as well, I just need to see the negative individuals sooner, and steer away QUICK! Best to you also!
T2

-- Modified on 9/11/2007 7:01:48 PM

As an after thought, I wanted to say, that not all of my relationships have been abusive,
Fact is, they were just normal, but did not last, due to differences, such as goals, desires, needs
ect.

My marriage was good in the first 12 to 14 years,
but then the wife went nuts? and became very selfish, and controlling during the last 5 to 6 years of the marriage. Go figure?

Then there was a relatiohship with a provider, with whom, I loved very much, and it was not abusive at all, But I screwed up! and fell for her, but she was A Provider! LOL It was my own
fault that I bought into the GFE, but after some
healing time, things are well between us.

Like I said, I don't look for broken people, but in these cases, that I wrote of, There has been three different relationships, in which these people got past my radar, and things got nasty,
one lasted about 2 months, and the other, 4 months. Both with civies, This does not mean that I am backsliding on anything, because I feel the need to increase my own self awarenss, and as well of those who are a danger to me.

Hey , I understand.  Remember females are crazy people sometimes.  I had one who stalked me and did the same thing yours did, called me and hung up for several months. She was a nurse treating me.  I talked to a police officer who stated they did not take it seroiuslly when a female stalks a male.  I took it on myself to tell her to stop.  Ten months went by where I could not get appointments at my doctors office until i saw her again.  She sat there and stared at me the entire time i was there. I tried to find out why she had done this and to tell her she was making me uncomfortable and got called from her boyfriend ( who I didn't know about) and got cussed out and threatened to be killed.  Still the police did  not help.  I went through the depression thing also, finally filed a complaint with the nursing board against her and left my doctor. Suffered from withdrawal from narcotics.  I lost 25 pounds and started having chest pains.  I saw her again at a hospital where she started working while visiting a family member and lost it.  I let her know what I thought of her (it made me feel so much better, decreased my heart rate and blood pressure, I began sleeping again and gained weight).  She charged me with stalking though, said I was showing up at her work and had in-person communications with her.  She turned it all against me.  She had earlier gone to my doctor and blamed me for making her uncomfortable even though I never did anything inappropriate and her coworkers where talking about me and telling me how much she liked me.
Somehow I became the bad guy and her and her boyfriend have got off as the innocent ones.  Had to go to a therapist who told me I had been sexually harassed and was suffering from Post Tramatic sress syndrome.
I learned you have to be really careful with females.  They have the power and are going to be protected where men are not.  
I hope you learn something.  A girl who would stalk you is not worth communicating with at all.  It will either encourage them to continue or cause them to blame you.
Good Luck.

Thanks Bkbcoach, All that I know, is that I cannot
control anyone but myself, If change is needed, I can only change myself. As for others actions, well its their actions, their thoughts, or words.
I cannot be responsible for anyone elses actions,
thoughts or words, Just my own.
So I guess that to her, I am the bad guy, because
I did not react as she desired for me to react?
So this makes me crazy, because I don't fit under
some psycology label from her book. LOL
So much for my honest and open and mature behavior. Some people need to play hide and seek, behind masks,  while others need attempt to manipulate others, and do the head game stuff, or be vindictive and angry about life.

I am human, I make mistakes, and learn, and go on
living, but I have no desire to operate behind some useless mask, or feel inferior about who I am. After all, I am ME! Not perfect, but not all that bad either.
My real question to her or people like her, is that If I am so unstable, and undesirable, then why did she keep me as client for a year? and then when I confront the effects that this relationship was having upon me and step away. I become the bad guy?
What really pains me, is that I risk caring about someone, who got screwed up by some other male, and I get kicked around and blamed because I am a male who was battered and abused by my father.
I don't want pity, I want to understand, and be
understood, I want the Respect that I am entitled
to, because I give it as well.
If I use or abuse anyone, and its bought to my attention, then I feel pained, and I change.
But what about when others are attempting to push
my buttons, and gain happiness in doing so?
What then? I want others to realize, that just because someone cut their throat, attempted to drown them, locked them in a room for 4 months,
physically battered, and emotionally bullied, them. (that is only a small glimspe of what I experienced)
It gives them NO right to take out their anger
or pain upon others! Nor the right to take it out
on me! Because unlike when I had no defense then,
I do now and I will not allow for ANYONE to mistreat me. I think that I have said to much already on this subject, so lets just close this
chapter.
T2

-- Modified on 9/17/2007 2:03:17 PM

Well, I thought that because this is such a hot button item, I would update.
First off, The business relationship that I HAD been in with this certain provider, was in fact
abusive. The poster above who bought about the
passive agressive, I can say safely, No I did not
react in such a manner. As well I made my concerns
and pain known to her.
As well, I made it known to others, because of my confusion over what was taking place. That in itself as a good move on my part.

The real issue here, was that I was in a damm if I
do, damn if I don't situation.
What I was attempting to do, was get distance from
this person, but she was not about to leave me alone, because she was emotionally connected to me.
If I stayed, she would continue to abuse, and drive me nuts! And if I left, she would stalk me
and drive me nuts!
As a man, I am expected to just take it, and not react what so ever.
But because of my desire for emotional health, I came here for answers, and understanding.
I got some answers, and I also got some understanding, And as well, I bought the abusers
behavior to the forefront.
She has a problem, and its her issue to own up to.
My issue, is to become more aware of and avoid people who have problems, such as her issue.

So I accept the role that I had in this dance, in that I did not terminate my association with her
sooner.
Thanks love Goddess for your information, and to all who contributed in a positive manner to my
situation.
Its a new day for me, and because of the help that
I have received, I have every hope to feel good about my future.

T2

-- Modified on 10/14/2007 1:07:52 PM

LOL EOM.

Everyone says that the guy on the hill, is a fool,
But the fool looks down, and sees the world spin around. I view the bigger picture,
the panoramic view, its my world and yours,
What is my right, can be your wrong, what is known, is equaled by the unknown. But the world continues to spin around. Here today, and gone tomorrow, but I won't cry for yesterday, cause there's an ordinary
world that somehow I have to find. And in that ordinary world that I have to find, I know that somehow I will survive.

-- Modified on 11/27/2007 5:06:25 PM

OK, so you feel that its me.
Here my challenge to this ONE person, who feels so strongly about this.
Give yourself ( the person ) Not the mask! A
stronger voice, and tell me what you feel, and see in me.
Don't tell me here on the board, you should create that email account, that keeps your identity secret,
I want to know how you feel about our interaction.
I want to learn, but if you don't contribute other than to point and click, then I cannot learn from my mistakes. Right?
And if you cannot rise to the challenge, then I guess that I had better leave this place for good, and seek the answers else where.

From this point forward, I have an expectation
that you give your person a greater power.
Take away that power from your mask, and give it to yourself the person behind the masks.
Masks can be used to protect, but should not be used to project.
I NEED to hear from the person! this is an important issue to me, so I have given a lot of effort to hear what you feel.
Now is the time for YOU to make your voice loud and clear!
You have no reason to fear me, you are safe, and secure.
From this point forward, I will not respond to you, as I have done. I think that I have been more than fair, remember, work together, and understand each other, not push and pull! Tell the negative thoughts in your head to fuck off!
and begin to use positive thoughts, YOU can do it!
I know YOU CAN! Because you are worth it!

If you want to continue, then email me, outright
or create that seperate account, make sure that you use the three words that i have requested in the subject line.
I will wait for a time, but then I guess that if you chose to not communicate with me, then I need to go forward from here.

My best wishes to you! Really!

Trooper

I am closing this thread. Contact me directly if
you wish to share. Its not about YOU, but ME.
I need to know and learn and grow, even when its painful.

Care to join me?

T2

You Blew It!
Remember the fool on the hill, he watches the fools down below, play stupid games, while they
totally miss the big picture!  LOL
He sees the world spinning around!
I am sad that you felt the need, once again, to
attempt to humilate me, I knew that I could never turn my back on you.
If you should ever desire to be a fool on a hill,
let me know, I still care.

Take Care of yourself sweetie

-- Modified on 12/6/2007 7:52:18 PM

Now that time has passed, and I have been able to think more clearly, I am able to make an admission.
It takes two to tangle, my responsiblity is that I react in a way that the other person feels is aggression? I can freely admit that I am very fearful of getting abused, in any way. As this is the case, I present a wall or boundary, in which I warn anyone and everyone, to not cross that line, if you do, I will react in a not so nice manner.

Well not a lot has changed, in that I still will warn you of impending danger, But when my threshold of pain has reached a certain point, I will simply walk away! and the threat is gone,
and so am I. It is that threshold that I need to work on, and to become aware of the pain sooner,
and then react in the proper manner, as seek a safe place.

This was what I intended to do at the start, but for some reason, I felt as if I were like a deer
caught in a cars headlights, and I just stood there, and bang, got ran into?
Hopefully, there will not be a next time, but should there be a next time? I will run like a deer, and get the hell out of the roadway altogether, and then look at the car, and give the car a LOOK, Like Man, What the hells wrong with YOU! Didn't you see the DEAR crossing sign?
LOL
But Still, I take a stance, that I refuse to accept blame or guilt for actions that I did not act out! This kind of behavior, or action belongs
soley to the other party, and so they must accept that responsiblity alone.
So with that said, I still want to understand what action or posture, that made the other party
feel abused? or threatened? whether she is right
or wrong, because we all have fears and triggers,
and reactive measures. Communication, and a willness to understand, must be in place for any
relatioinship to be healthy or worthwhile.

OK. so here is the scoop.
Within me, Resides a beautiful ROSE. The Rose loves to be appreciated, admired, and LOVED.

The Rose, loves to share its beauty and warmth. The Rose, blooms when its touched in positive and loving ways. So you get to see how lovely and beautiful the Rose is.
Now the Warning!
Hidden behind the Rose, is an individual, who's sole purpose, is to protect the welfare of the ROSE! His name? well I call him my incredible HULK!

Now the HULK, always! stays hidden from sight of others, he is content to just watch over the ROSE,
as his intent is only to protect the ROSE from harm.

The Rose, will close its bloom when there is a threat, this is a warning to others to BACK OFF!
If an individual continues to harm the ROSE, then
Guess what? The HULK will come out into sight, and
do whatever is necessary to protect the ROSE.

Now, in later years, The Rose and the Hulk, have learned that rather than allow for the Hulk to react, its better for both, to step away, to a place of safety.
The ROSE, and the HULK, have no intent to harm others, only to love and be loved.
If you fuck with either individual, then they LEAVE! Its called Flight or Fight.

If you back me into a corner, or bully me,
the Rose folds its bloom to you, and the Hulk presents His self, to protect the ROSE only.
Then they go to a safe place.

Moral of Story, don't attempt to harm the ROSE
If the Rose folds, then don't attempt to pry the  bloom open, it folded for a reason.

I am not some bad ass mad dog out of control kind
of individual, but I have taken measures to protect myself in the past.
its called SELF DEFENSE.
Its not a fairly tale, or comic book tale, its the facts.

Hey! Hell Ya, I can do that for you!
When can WE get Started?

S/R Are you making a threat to ME? Cause if you are, then you had better be real careful, cause you may lose your kid, (not that you care)
Then you go for a ride downtown, and lose a bunch of cash for legal defense to begin with. And I know that you care about your MONEY. Right?
Its called child endangerment and neglect.
So you silly girl! Be Cool, No one wants to hurt anyone! Right? just for the heck of it, ask the provider Mallory K, what happened when she fucked
with a client? You can get her info off craigs list ads.

Hey. I know, lets forget about all this crap!
and Lets have SEX! Its much more FUN!
Or
YOU can leave in Peace.
No one is making you come here to spread misery,
They are your issues!
Remember to try to think positive!


-- Modified on 1/1/2008 10:36:41 PM

-- Modified on 1/1/2008 10:45:08 PM

"In my own words" I stated that I see providers,
to avoid emotional attachments and DRAMA!

I then posted, and explained further about what happened. and Why I fell for you.
I ran away, because you wanted both, and I cannot
alllow that to happen. Its one or the other, but NOT both.

You and I are both stuck here, under siege, by our own needs, You love me and want me, but only
on your terms alone, but I say NO, I count too!

So until one of us leaves, We have created our own
Hell, neither one of us, is responsible for how the other feels, Its your feelings and needs that
bought you back here, and keep you here.
The same for ME.

I want YOU. I want to have sex with you, or make love to you, either way, I want you.
Go ahead and keep jumping around, and ripping at me, I am numb, so it does not hurt.
But I am going to take some shots at you too!
Its only fair! Right?
But neverless, I love you, and would rather treat you well, than fight or hate you,
That is why its so difficult to let go, there is so much about you to love, but I dislike your behavior toward me at times, so I am going to make things equal. You can call it abuse, I call it making myself heard.
After all, it cannot be abuse, because you don't exist! LOL So I can be as nasty as my little devil
says to be! Maahaahhh.

Pick your poison, Stay or Leave, its your choice!
Love me or hate me, its your choice,
I chose to love you, and dislike some of your behaviors.

Hey, I got an idea, lets have sex! or make love!
Whatever is right for the moment.

-- Modified on 1/2/2008 5:18:53 PM

The Real meaning behind Passive/Agressive,
A good example is probably someone like you.

What it amounts to, is that when you are in the physical presence of an individual, with whom you have a fear, You act and behave in a passive manner, But underneath the passive front, is an anger, which you hide, but it bleeds thru the passive front that you have erected.

The agressive undertones, are shown in  manners,
words, acts, and gestures. An example, would be
your spoken words, project an anger, or comtempt
or defiance, toward the other individual.

This a reason why I stated, that you were being abusive toward me, because you were acting passive, but yet I could feel the anger that you felt, and projected at me. You would say things
such as "You think you are so perfect"
or some other statements to the effect that they
project a contempt for me as an individual.

Often when we spoke, I detected these off handed
remarks, and I felt belittled by the words.
So you see, YOU are the Passive/Agressive individual, who is afraid of or intimadated by
my physical presence.

When you were not physically present, then your anger issues were more apparent, because you would project verbally at me with ease, to show
your contempt, such as becoming angry over a request that I made to see you, You would speak
with anger, and make statements that projected
the anger that you felt, by speaking to me as if I were a lesser indivdual. If you don't believe me, make note of your past posts on TER, in which
you posted under a different alias. Your words were full of venom, and anger.

So What it amounts to, is that YOU felt that I was
projecting a superior attitude toward you.
That is Where the other gents were in error as to my responsibility in our interaction.

In fact, it is you who has this arrogant, I am never wrong, I am perfect attitude, when you are expressing yourself or projecting yourself, when you are not physically present, But then you revert to passive/agressive when in physical contact with a figure that you feel is an authority figure?
So this is your Rose, and Hulk. and how you project onto others, your hidden anger, and contempt.

Ya know gaijian, you and Bob should learn to read and interpet things better before you go and claim that you know what you are talking about! LOL
I know that you mean well, but sometimes meaning well, and doing well, well they are two different
things.
You see, I never offered to take care of anyone,
but ME. and what the provider now knows, is that
while she was busy abusing, and setting me up, so when the shit hit the fan, she could run and play victim of me! LOL

Well, you guys read all the distorted stuff, but behind the action, I was actully setting the provider up! So that I could rip away her cloak!
And expose her for who she really was, and her game!

Now that time has passed, she is crying in her beer, and trying to say, Oh boo hoo, you abused
me! When all I did was expose her, so everyone
could see behind her front! LOL
So nice try guys, but you really missed the mark!
and you both look like a couple of know it alls
who don't know up from down. LOL
In other words, you are both clueless,
and sploge, and coach, You guys are right on the Mark! and have earned my respect. LOL

Are we having FUN? I think that having sex with you is so much better, than this stand off!

Its true, Instead of allowing for all this negative stuff to take place, I just figured, that
hey! I want to be a part of the laughter, rather then be the one getting laughed at. I can laugh
with you? So lets have FUN, and then lets have some great SEX, I know you are worth more, but I have never gotten to see that, so I guess I have to settle for the sex?

Ya Day, I know what part I had in this, go ahead and slap me over the head, I get it.
We both have fears, and we both projected our fears onto each other.
But! I made some of my fears known to her, and she jumped on them with glee! So some of my fears were justified at that point. Now the question is
were any of her fears justified in the begining?
After all she did admit, that she intended to head fuck with me in the begining, and it kept going.

So who is the agressor?
I kept walking away, because she kept playing games, and that forced me to play in return, because I felt bullied and taken advanatage of.
And so I refused to back down.
I had to keep taking things back to square one,
Provider/Client relationship, in order to keep
things in perspective, but then things got out of hand, as we both were striking out at each other,
in an emotional sense, and neither of us were able to disingage, But I did attempt to disentangle, but keep the professional relationship going on, it did not work.

So now its a face off, or stare down, to see who
blinks first? LOL
All I want to do, is have fun with her!
(such as have some great SEX!) but it cannot happen if a compromise is not reached.
So I We have to figure out how to do that?
so that we can have some great sex!

-- Modified on 1/8/2008 5:08:28 PM

I am not about to attempt to do all the work, so maybe we can find a go between who we both trust,
to help communicate, and get you and I back into the same bed! For some FUN!

-- Modified on 1/8/2008 7:16:12 PM

It appears, that I have your agreement thus far,
So now what? Do you feel vindicated? If so, then
do you feel that you have seen it thru to the end?

Is this where we stop, and go our separate ways
in peace?
Or is this an opportunity to explore further with
each other?

Remember, communication, understanding, and sharing, and finally, hopefully, healing.
Do you now feel less threatened by me?
Enough to at least show me some respect and trust?

I know, It just opens up more questions, but at least, its a start, for the both of us.

And of course, I hope that you don't forget that I am hopeful to share some great SEX with you!

S/R, As I have always stated, you are worth everything that you want, never settle for anything less.
Now keeping this in mind, I too, have given myself
permission to think and feel the same way about me. There is a exception though, I humble myself,
to a degree, when I approach others asking for my
needs to be met, with the hope that they will do the same. Then, there is no stand off, because both parties are able to feel like winners.

Its about compromise and working together toward
a common goal, and not short changing the partner
in the process.

Thanks for your time and attention, but please don't take my humbleness as a weakness. being humble, allows me to be equal to anyone else.
And I know to not back down from that position,
because if I do, I am stripped of my dignity as a man, and I have no personal worth to myself.
I allow others to have their dignity, and I keep mine in place as well. Everyone is able to be happy if that is what they desire.
As long as there is hope, or even a glimmer of it,
I remain hopeful to be a winner.

You can rest assured that the Hulk is a very mild, and calm monster, if you want to call him a monster.
Like I said, its just a matter of protection, and
yes, even though you are so much smaller than I, you have something over me, emotionally, you are a powerhouse, to be dealt with, and given great respect!
You are a WOMAN, without your gender, there would be no check and balance between us males.
I have never desired to disrespect you, the woman,
but I expect you to respect yourself as well.

Learn to be careful with your power, and use it wisely, and you can ask your man to move the earth for you, and it will be done.
We were put on the earth to co-exist, and love,
Not fight and struggle, or view each other as
threats, but society, has pitted us against each
other at times.

I want you, and to be at peace with you.
So do not fear the Rose or the Hulk, respect the Rose, and receive the tender and gentle touch that
is meant for you.

I am thinking to approach a well known provider,
or hobbiest, and I will ask them to send a request
to you, on my behalf, asking for a date.

What do you think? Yes or No?
I wish that you would just call me, but as we both are hesitant, maybe the third party is a better idea after all.
This way, I can be humble, and ask, without having to fear getting humilated, and it forces
us to put our money where our mouth is.

I want to see you, but not be seen as stalking or harrassing, or anything harmful to either of us.

OK, I think that I understand, We both are a couple of bull headed individuals, who are very fearful of getting used, or dragged down.
We both are intent to get what we want!
I want you, but I am not one to use force or agression, to get what I want,
I don't see force or bulling as a healthy means to getting my needs met.
I hope that you can feel the same.

I think that I can understand a certain part of your fear of me, thinking back on some of the remarks that you said to me in the past, I am under the impression, that you seen me as a bully?
or that you felt that I was playing with your emotions? and so thus you felt the need to strike back, because you were feeling hurt, because I kept projecting affections to you, but then I would step back, and that made you feel rejected?

Were you projecting anger, because you were fearful of being used, so you decided to use me instead? sort of beat me to the punch?

Ya know you are such a teaser!
When are you going to be my pleaser?

Then I can please you too! In many ways, not just sexually.
I Miss YOU! but I have to hold out, so that I get
what I need as well.

Come babe, let me mess up your hair, kiss your neck til you laugh! share deep kisses with you,
and we both moan with delight.
Why is it that you are not allowing me into your bed, so that we can make some more precious memories, happy ones at that!

Try to let the anger go, its negative, and it drives away those that you want close to you.
those who want to love you, but hold back and stay away, because of receiving your angry wrath,
instead of your affections in return.

Com on babe, what do ya say! Lets make life FUN!
Or are you afraid to feel happy?

Let me mess up your hair! and then sleep with me
all night, so WE can both have an all night smile on our faces, and be tickled inside. Just like we used to do!

Come On! Lets Make it Happen Babe!

W/T, I am sorry for my negative behavior,
its just that others have hurt me, and so I got
angry, and began to suspect All Men only wanted to use me, for sex. I felt that is all that you wanted as well, but now I know better that you do want me.

I love me, and I want you to love me as well. I want to love you as well.
R/S

Can we heal the rift, and try again.

OK sweetie, I intend to go forward with this idea,
thanks for your input, Can you give me some time
to put it together? Thanks for your patience,
I want you! Its just that I have a lot of personal
things going on, (my kid) that i have to deal with. I wish I could tell you, but its to personal to tell you here. Thanks for understanding.

W/T

Understanding your personality traits is one thing, but having to accept and deal with them while you ignore the impact upon others, is still yet another thing.
You are angry, and so rather than accept the anger, you give up hope, and make reasons to project the anger towards others.

You go and have sex with someone, and then you say fuck off to me, but then tomorrow, you will feel different.
You are angry because i am not there to see to your needs, but yet I feel that you will not accept that I need to feel secure or accepted before I can approach you,
Its nothing but come close to me W, and then wham, you get scared, and then you strike out with your anger, when really, you want me there,
So in your relationships, ask yourself, WHY am I
afraid to feel accepted, and happy? You continue to do everything to sabotage yourself, and stay
unhappy, and angry with life,
CHANGE the attitude! That is why you have lost clients, because you act as if you are doing a favor to others, as opposed to providing a service.

Follow some of your own advice, get out of the hobby, Quit providing, because you are doing nothing but reinforcing your own self worth.
You and I both know, that you want to feel loved
and accepted, but yet you are so fearful to allow anyone to show you a real appreciation of you the person.

I have taken your advice, and left the hobby,
This does not mean that I may take a date here and there, but I am done, because I don't need sex to feel accepted.
I want you because of the way I feel when I have sex with you, There is a connection!
Otherwise, all the others that I have seen, well its just SEX. No emotional feelings what so ever.
So am I fucked up? no just an individual who is human, and has desires.

I want to be in your life.

I WANT YOU!

Sweetie, about the other thread, and what you keep going back to, If you could only understand just how deeply hurt I was at the time,
I believed in you, and I got played like a music
instrument.
So ya, I struck back, and it hurt you, I know and I wish what happened, did not happen,
but its in the past, and now the trust between us
is really damaged.
Do you remember of how I told you, I am open and honest? Well I am that kind of person, but I felt that you desired to take me out, or down.
So fair is fair right?
After all, you made the rules, not me, and even though your game did not plan on you getting hurt, I felt compelled to even the score. ( I am not perfect )

You hurt me, I tried everything I could to walk away, and get relief from the pain, only to have you follow me, and further taunt me, and so forth.
So what happened is history, I am not proud, I
apologized to you, and desired that you could forgive. So can you?

I do love you, but it has conditions, such as treat me with respect, and care.
I still desire to give you respect, but i know that we have to earn that, right?
I want you! I want for us to smile and be happy with each other, to have joy and laughter, not pain and anger toward each other.
We both lost when we crashed into each other
with our negative stuff. I want to make love, not war.

So again, can you forgive? and further heal your wounds,
I WANT YOU!

I have to get to work, or bed, depending upon the time, but keep in mind, I am thinking of you, or dreaming of you!
I hope you have a wonderful day, and thanks for keeping room in your heart and thoughts for me too!
I want to be with you! and have even more happiness in life with you.
Kiss YOU!

Will you come to me tonight?
At 9:00 pm, at my home? so that we can make some great memories, and have each other.

Sweetie, I would not do anything like that to you,
It was a way to warn you to not threaten me,
You kept clicking on the post by bkbcoach, in which he says of how he was harrassed by a female.

If you intended this as a threat toward my wefare,
I want you to know of just how serious I take these things, as you know the history of my past marriage, and the dirty low down stuff that she did to me, like attempting to get me on trumped up criminal charges!

So ya, I take these things serious, and I just want you to know, to not even imply something like
this. I do not like getting backed into a corner!
If you are angry, leave me an out, so I can get out of the way!
If were to be so angry, then scream and yell at me, but it does not give anyone the right to take
away my freedoms, because they cannot accept a situation?

So plain and simple, you have nothing to worry about, unless of course you were neglecting your kid, or abusive to her, then you can bet I would
step between you and her, and take the beating.

She is innocent, lets keep her safe! ALWAYS!

-- Modified on 1/16/2008 2:16:32 PM

I WANT YOU! I want you to love and appreciate me,
Not kick my ass!
Negative is not what I want from you, not now, not ever!

Given time and forgiveness, by both of us, I hope to regain your trust.
I know that WE got off to a really rocky start.
But I do hope to ammend things with you.
I truly do want you, I am hopeful that you will allow me into your life. I am hoping that this is a beginning to a greater understanding, and love between us.
OK, so right out here on a public board, I admit
that I fell for a provider, Sexy Shawna.

Anyone who wants to ridicule me for this, take your best shot! She is such a beautiful and inteligent woman, so much so, that yes, she should feel that she is doing any hobbiest a favor
for allowing them into her bed.
She was doing me a favor as well, but I like to feel that I am special as well, so I wanted to feel as if we were sharing equally in our time together.

I quit the hobby because I got in a jamb, I fell for her, and I was just a hobbiest, a user, just like every one in the hobby.

When I met her, I felt something greater than I.
Its was US. and so I did not desire to use her, but instead love her. She continued to use me, because she doubted my creditability, and rightly
so, just as I doubted her. We set ourselves up
to take a fall, as we used and abused each other.

I want to change all of that. I don't want to use
you, I just Want YOU.

-- Modified on 1/16/2008 8:41:25 PM

I WANT YOU!

Honey, if I approach you directly again, are you going to accept my advance, or are you still angry,
and intending to blow me off?

I want you, and I want to see you, I want to have great sex with you again!
So can I approach you, without having to the fear that you will act as if I am bothering you?
I don't want any trouble with you, just fun and enjoyable times.

Thanks
W/T

I can understand and accept that you have trust issues as well, but honey, until you determine why or what is the cause of your inability to trust your judgement, then you are going to be in a limbo.

I decided to put myself back out, for you, even though we slamed into each other, because I felt that we can work through it all.

But it appears that you are giving up on us?
I am sad about that, because I want you! I am want to at least try to do this with you, but I have to have you contribute to us as well.

I will admit, that I am jealous, that others get to see you, while I sit out in the cold, that is a terrible place to be, as I want into the warmth of your presence. I WANT YOU!

I am sorry for the negative interaction, I own up to the fact that I have been less than a gentelman in the past.
Just as with you, I have been used and hurt by others, so I suspected that you only were interested in using me to your own needs alone.

I was hurt, and then angry, when I felt that you shoved me away, because I want you for more than just sex.
You now know how I feel about you, the cats out of the bag, it no secret any longer.
I know that you would like to try to work out our differences, as well as I do, and not feel short changed.

The post may come off as harsh, but I felt that I had to say it like I see it.
When I said leave the hobby, its because you are hurting yourself, by allowing others to use you.
And so in the process, you use them, and they use you in return.
This using just perpetuates and steals from you,
of your ability to trust, and give trust in return. Not only that, but how about your ability
to love yourself? If you were entirely comfortable
with your status, then really, you would not be hiding yourself, behind the smoke and mirrors.
Like wise, your future rests upon your ability
to stay grounded, and not allow the hobby to take a toll upon you. If you remember, we had talked about this once upon a time.
It is your life, and so who am I to tell you what to do? although my motives may be selfish, they are not entirely off the mark.

I took your advice, because even though it hurt at the time, when you delivered your words, it is the truth. But it still does not change the fact that I want you.
I cannot change you, that is something that you have to desire for yourself, this is why I say,
its yours to deal with.

OK, now what is it that I have said or done wrong?
I thought that we were working together on a better understanding of each other.

I am all ears honey, maybe you misinterpeted something I said, or implied.
Its hard to guess what you are thinking or feeling, when we have this kind of communication.

So are you doing as much as you can to help me understand your concerns and position on matters?
Thanks for listening.

I am doing as much as I can to promote peace and happiness between us!
Do you have any better ideas?????????
One thing to remember, I would contact you directly in a heart beat, but because of getting
rejected three different times in the past, ya I am a little hesitant to approach you.

I desire no trouble with you! and if you refuse to help out more, then what am I supposed to do?
Put out my neck so my head can get chopped off?
No Thanks! I am not here to egg you on, so that I can take any cheap shots, I fucked up and took my one shot a long time ago, and I regret that!
YOU know that I do too!

So, as I have noted of how inteligent an individual you are, ( and you are! )
What do you propose?

I want you!

This is not so FUN or enjoyable if we cannot close the gulf.
Do you really want this for yourself, or do you desire better? I think you know what I want!

The more I ponder, the more I see, and I realize just how much alike that we are!
Do you see how we mirror each other so often?
Think about it! We cannot help but connect with each other emotionally. It is because of who we are.

I love you sweetie!

As long as there is hope, then there is you and I
with our personal struggles, trying to make life
a happy experience. Don't give up on you, and I will not give up on me.
We both win, and as long as we continue, we have each other.

-- Modified on 1/18/2008 5:58:34 PM

Re WTH, We should be out on a date! movie, dinner, or a pillow fight!

You know that you will always win a pillow fight
cause you can throw a mean pillow! You could even call say, YOU Fucker! just as long as you smile when you say that. Of course you know what my come back would be.
Dinner? well hey as you are aware, I can cook too!


-- Modified on 1/18/2008 7:27:51 PM

Unless of course you are looking for fault, and a reason to fight?
Otherwise let the past stay where it belongs,
Today is a new day, and we cannot relive the days past.

-- Modified on 1/19/2008 5:27:31 AM

I cannot read your mind, while I have gained a better knowledge of you, I feel better to listen
and allow you to tell me what it is that you want.

You have my attention, and I am happy to keep an
open mind toward our interaction.
So with that said, What is it that you want from me?
You know where I stand, and what I desire from you. However I am willing to compromise some.
W/T

I have said over and again, you are so intellligent! I understand what you want me to know, and I am not the least bit offended by the warning, Thnaks with a big KISS!

I promise to be careful, but if I should get close to a trigger, or button, you have to let me know quickly, so we can keep safe, and happy.
I hope that I can have the same understanding from you as well.

I have no reason to push your buttons, nor cause you pain. After all, I do WANT YOU!
Like the lyrics of many songs, I hope to be invited into your secret garden.
Its going to take us both to build a good foundation of trust, Lets not rush, even though
I want to run to you, I don't want you to run away!
So please Stay, and lets do our best.
You have my deepest and most sincere affections,
and all that I am, and all that I will ever be.

You are so cute! come here so I can mess up your hair, and then you can say, fucker! but you have to smile when you say it! Then we can laugh, kiss
and hug! and feel happy! keep the communication open, and we will keep giving to each other.
If it gets to intense, take a break, but let me know too! Kiss
I Want you!

I feel that once we are again together physically,
that we will both be at peace, and yet the butterflies will still flutter!

I WANT YOU!
Tell me what your heart desires, and I will try to make it so.

Yours alone.
W/T

What is it?
Please, don't get negative, or doubtful!
If I have done something, tell me, you know how I care for you.

If you are fustrated, relax, I am NOT going to leave,
Believe me, its hard to not see you, or hold you.
I WANT YOU!

I am not trying to piss you off, or incur fustration,
I have to follow your directions, my last contact,
you stated that you wanted me to leave.
I am only obeying your wishes, in keeping away.
Otherwise, I would approached again.

If you feel comfortable, you can make contact as well, I can promise you! that you will be well received.

I miss you honey.

I have no doubts about how I feel about us. I am committed to make this work for us for the LONG
TERM.

Please be receive it well, so that we can continue
to be positive, and build trust and affections.
I want you honey!

Me Bullheaded? well yes I can be bullheaded, but
in the case of me vs Shawna/R.
Well look who refuses to even REPLY! Ouch! that hurts! Big time! but then you know that right?

Picture W/P as he sighs! O well, what next?

If we are just using each other, then lets keep it on the same page, so we both agree with what is
going on. But if its different, then see the next post.

-- Modified on 1/23/2008 12:10:44 AM

There is a big difference, when you just fuck, well hey that can be fun, but it gets boring, and old if you are just doing a physical act.

When you have sex, with someone that you honestly
like and care about, then Sex is expressing something greater than a physical act.

So if you wanna have sex, great! lets do it!
Its just a question of what is the intent behind
it?

I want more than the physical act.
What about you?

I should know better than to allow the vindictive words, and distortions get to me, but they do, and it serves as a reminder of why I walked away in the first place!

You have been doing a better job at sharing positive energy of late, so give yourself a pat on the back!
My nature is that i am a giving a loving person
by trait, but when I am under attack, then I can
be just as negative as anyone else, thus the rose and hulk trait.

I have to commend you, for allowing me to see behind your mask. It shows me, that you are allowing yourself to be vunlerable.
I really do understand your fear, and that is why you are so hesitant to open up even more.
Have you ever pondered this, in that you fear getting used, and controlled, so in the process of
putting up an emotional guard, you have become the kind of individual, that you fear the most.

Just an observation on my part.
Anyway, sorry for my anger, those past posts that
were written by smell bullshit, are so full of venom, and so distorted, and twisted, WOW.
What the hell happened to you? to make you so hateful and bitter back then? and how about now?
are you still that angry?

I sure hope that you are feeling more loved and happy now days.

I am not afraid to risk showing who I am, and what I desire.
Nor will that change, because while the risks may be great, the rewards are even greater, when there is a payout.

All that you have done is earned my distrust,
and in the process, and once again, I felt that
you projected negative stuff at me, but I am not a sponge.
Its better to have loved and lost, than to never
have loved at all.!

Take care of you!

Ask K, if she would act as go between.
It appears that since I have been DNS, no one will talk to me, let alone see me.
If you remember, she is the one who posted to keep my head up.

So if you can get her to act as go between, then
I am ok with that, In fact, I will send her an email, asking as well, but you have to do the same. My request will be sent later this posting day.
If not, then you can still contact me directly.

You have nothing to fear from me. I only want you
but I want us to bridge the gulf.

Warren

Hey YOU! you are making me do all the work! so at least give me some credit for my effort.

Its difficult when you are not giving me person to person feedback. And then to add to it, you keep getting fustrated, and walking away!

Be patient, and calm down please.
And just maybe, dare to talk to me, so that I know that I getting it right.

Thanks sweetie!


-- Modified on 1/29/2008 6:31:16 PM

Will you be mine?

Love
Warren

Shawna, I am feeling very sad.
I have to throw in the towel, and look elsewhere.

Thank you for all of the attention, I know that you mean well, just as I wish you the very best,
I hope that you can feel the same for me as well.

Its not me, nor is it you, I guess that I don't have what you desire, and you cannot give to me,
what I desire.

Warren

Fuck! Do you think that I am happy? Do you think that I enjoy having you kick my ass, almost on a daily basis? love me one minute, then change your mind and hate me the next?

I like roller coaster rides, but not in relationships.
I am tired of waiting for the follow up punch from you.

I am throwing the fight! cause I don't want to fight you, I have never desired to fight you.
You know that all I ever desired was your love,
and respect. For whatever reason, I do not have that!

I am NOT angry with, or at you, remember? I love you. I am fustrated, because what I hoped for, just is not happening. I want you to want me enough to marry me without a doubt.

Love ya, always! but cannot live with the terms.

Warren

-- Modified on 1/31/2008 6:40:58 PM

Shawna, Quit thinking and doing negative!
Keep it postive so that you can really appreciate and accept my love.

I don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks. I am
an emotional being, and I am not ashamed for how I feel. I am in love with you. I want you to be my wife.

I want you to see how you are, quit jumping back and forth, calm down, and quit flaming me.
I want to feel loved by you, and treated well,
so I need to see you, feel you, and I desire to have you PHYSICALLY present as well as emotionally! So what do you want????????

So what the hell am I supposed to do?
Quit running away! QUIT with the negative projections!
You know I miss you! and I need for this to go somewhere, so quit stalling me, and step toward me, and give it a chance.
Otherwise we both lose, and I don't want to walk away from this investment, a loser.

Lets do this! come on babe! How am I to be married if you won't put it out there too.
I know your trying, thanks, put yourself in my shoes for a time and try to understand what you are asking of me.

Warren

-- Modified on 2/1/2008 12:01:23 PM

Love me in the way that I need, and I am all yours! And I will never leave. Ever.

Now will you marry me?
Love
Warren

I must inform you that this is a board for psychosexual questions and answers, not a one-way communication central. In the past, you have asked some interesting and useful questions; now, you are apparently USING THIS BOARD to proclaim your overriding fascination for a provider.

If you continue to engage in these actions, your privileges will be revoked and your TER membership will be canceled. Your postings are inappropriate and do not belong on this board.

Please CEASE AND DESIST IMMEDIATELY, OR THIS WILL BE BROUGHT TO ADMIN'S ATTENTION and you will no longer be permitted to visit this site and this board,

the Love Goddess