TER General Board

Re:Where does snobbishness come from?
jackvance 4016 reads
posted
1 / 23

A lot of providers have to put up with snobbish clients.  I'm sure most of you are already well aware of this, but the key thing to always remember is that snobbishness is rooted in low self-esteem.  If the guy who is trying to look down on you didn't have a low opinion of himself, he wouldn't be acting that way.

Feels sorry for the pathetic guy if you are so inclined, but don't ever let him get to you.

jackvance 3481 reads
posted
2 / 23

Your approach is probably the best and certainly the most pleasant - just don't have anything to do with them.  Of course, unfortunately, you might not find out they are a snob until you're in the middle of a session.  You can always tell them to get lost in mid-session, but the best way of course would be to know in advance.  Hmmm, maybe the screening process should include a screening for snobs - probably does already in the sense of how it's part of getting a vibe for the other person.

frankd 10 Reviews 2509 reads
posted
3 / 23

Snobs, like Charles Emerson Winchester from MASH, suffer from excessively high self esteem.  

Don't know why so many people attribute so much behaviour to "low self esteem."  Perhaps that is simply a rationalisation that allows you to dismiss the offender.  A recent example is Monica Lewinsky - soooo many people said, "oh poor girl, she suffers from low self esteem..."  B.S. - her self esteem was so high she thought that the President loved her..

I'm not excusing snobbish behaviour, I just disagree with your analysis.  By the way, guess where you find the highest concentration of "high self esteem" individuals?... Prisons.

jackvance 3560 reads
posted
4 / 23

in ways that are not consistent with how they really feel, and even in complete contrast to it.

I am not at all interested in "dismissing the offender", when the offense is snobbishness.  They are jerks.

The idea that the highest concentration of high self esteem individuals is in prisons seems ludicrous to me.  They may act in a very aggressive way, as if the world belongs to them, or in other ways that have the outward appearance of high self-esteem, but again, that is merely outward behavior.  I think that actually there is a tendency toward low self-esteem among the prison population. This is NOT, however, some sort of excuse for them, or for anyone else with low self-esteem.  They remain responsible for their actions, just as clients who behave snobbishly toward providers do.

SUPERDAVE 1 Reviews 3173 reads
posted
5 / 23

I think many people confuse self esteem with self respect.

jackvance 4202 reads
posted
6 / 23

People who have a high IQ and education SHOULD perhaps have high self-esteem because of it, yet often behave like snobs.

The reason why is that they actually have low self-esteem, which is probably the result of the way they were parented.  Our most important source of self-esteem is how our parents felt about us when we were children.  Lots of well-to-do parents of people who are very intelligent and become highly educated and well-to-do themselves have parented in a way that makes those same children have low self-esteem despite their achievements.

HiProGlo 4 Reviews 2406 reads
posted
7 / 23

Snob, n [Ice. “snapr”, a dolt, idiot; Sw. dial. “snopp”, anything stumpy, from “snoppa” to cut off, make stumpy, hence, to snub]

1. a shoemaker. [Brit. Dial.]
2. in certain English universities, a townsman as opposed to a gownsman. [Old slang.]
3. a person having no wealth or social rank; one of the common people [Obs.]
4. a person who attaches great importance to wealth, social position, etc., having contempt for and keeping aloof from those whom he considers his inferiors, often one admiring, imitating, and seeking to associate with those whom he considers his superiors.
5. a person who regards himself as better than others in some specified way and behaves undemocratically; as in an intellectual snob.
 a. A snob is that man or woman who is always pretending to be something better – especially richer or more fashionable – than they are.
6. a scab (sense 5) [Brit. Dial.]

HPG

wmblake 12 Reviews 3555 reads
posted
8 / 23

I think there are a couple of things to consider - indeed, "self esteem" became a catch-all to explain all behavior and lost its real meaning.

Snobishness can be a) the accurate recognition of differing intellectual or social skills (or whatever the snobishness is about) without the capacity to love (Rollo May (I think) wrote there are 2 basic urges - the will to love and the will to power), so that one gains a pleasure in the "adequacy triumph" over another.  Men exhibit much more frequent will to power than do women, for whatever reason; or b) the attempt to "triumph" when one is concerned about his or her own adequacy (the self esteem stuff) and who then is aggressive in finding ways to prop himself up at another's expense, in order to become more valuable and valued.

In the sexual arena, where there are so many esteem & adequacy issues around who accepts or rejects whom, I would bet a lot of you ladies get many subtle and not so subtle messages of disregard.  But then again, I read a lot of guys' reviews, the real hobbiests, who love you for what you do and who you are.

thatotherguy 2923 reads
posted
9 / 23
HiProGlo 4 Reviews 5393 reads
posted
10 / 23

Those at the top, the middle and the bottom of society feel snobbery. It does not confine itself to intellect, wealth, power or fame. There are constant competitions at all levels of the wealthiest, moderate and lowest income brackets for the highest ranking in that particular group.

Witness Opera Societies, Theatre Groups, and the Hamptons as examples at the “top” of society.

Notice the types of cars and how many there are in the driveways of the middle-income housing tracks, the landscaping, the lighting, the entryways, etc.

Look at the some of the turf wars and gang wars that erupt in south central LA, OC and other places, the structure of the neighborhood social ladder, where people congregate, etc.

While what I said above can also be viewed as competition, it still derives from the desire to be on top of the dog-pile. Those at the bottom of highest group want to move to the top. Those at the top of the middle group look at the bottom layer of the top group and are covetous and desirous of that position.

The snobbery within each group is always present, it is a tool that many use to keep would-be “over-achievers” from moving up and taking over, and even those who are on their way up use it to intimidate those above and below them.

I am simplifying obviously because the points have been made well by everyone who posted above.

From my perspective snobbery reflects downward, upward and across.

HPG

ballsofpower 2355 reads
posted
11 / 23

There has been a significant change in academic psychology concerning the importance of "self-esteem" in behavior.  20 years ago, the conventional wisdom held that most anti-social behavior stemmed from a deficiency of self-esteem - the idea being that deep down the perpetrator breaks the society norms to compensate for feelings of inadequacy.  An alternative school now holds that excessive "self-esteem" is a larger cause of anti-social behavior.  Essentially, the behavior is driven by feelings that "rules don't apply to me" and by anger that "the world is not giving me what I deserve".  I am quite sympathetic to the second perspective after a cursory reading of the literature.

BofP

jackvance 3921 reads
posted
12 / 23

and keeping aloof from those whom he considers his inferiors, often one admiring, imitating, and seeking to associate with those whom he considers his superiors.

The definition above from the many you posted from Webster's is the one I had mind, with the focus in particular on wealth and social position, although intellectual snobs can be equally annoying.

The concept of snobbishness can of course be endlessly extended to include all kinds of snobs, including those who are "snobs about not being a snob", until we come to the conclusion that we are all snobs in our own way, and the term  becomes meaningless.  Those who are snobs in the definition in the subject line above (i.e. snobs about money and social position)often do this as a way of getting off the hook and not acknowledging their snobbishness.  We shouldn't let them get away with this.

When I say snob, I am not talking about the natural and healthy competition that happens among all people in nearly all arenas, as you mention, and I agree that it is human nature to be competitive. I know I sure am.  You have to experience the competition among climbers to know what competition truly is - the result is often the death of one of the competitors.  I still feel a little bad about a competitor of mine who died of pulmonary edema from the effects of high altitude while trying to outdo me and a climb I had done just before.  But I was in my thirties then, and would not allow that competitive situation to develop again.  The self-knowledge that climbing gives is worth risking your life for, but the desire to be at the top of the pyramid is not.  But leaving aside deadly competition, I think competition is natural, healthy, and good, and is not what I am talking about when I mention snobbishness.

HiProGlo 4 Reviews 2638 reads
posted
14 / 23

From my perspective competition is a good thing to keep everyone sharp and focused on improving themselves and their goods, products or services.

However, when the person at the top begins to form a cadre of likeminded curmudgeons who promote snobbery and use it as an entrance requirement into their ranks, it is wrong. Things like what University you graduated from, which social clubs you belong to, etc. are fairly mundane forms of snobbery in the business world.

That's my take.

HPG

jackvance 2690 reads
posted
15 / 23

most blatent, obnoxious forms of snobbery.  Realizing the truth of the fact that the snob is actually a pathetic guy with low self esteem is a good thing for them to know.

HootOwl 49 Reviews 4375 reads
posted
16 / 23
zorro 21 Reviews 2524 reads
posted
17 / 23

take a look around at the people that have their stupid university alumni license plate holders on their cars and you will notice that most of these people drive shitty or average cars.  Seems like they are overcompensating with the license plate holders for the fact that they do not drive a nice car.
I guess people are supposed to think that although they drive a shitty car at the moment, because of their advertised degree that their success is just around the corner???  Whateverrrrrr.

zorro 21 Reviews 3736 reads
posted
18 / 23

Check out this info on another place I know:

SOUTH AFRICA.  

Check this shit out...I just responded with this to somebody else that wanted a provider to take to the Caribbean for a week but it definitely applies to this post as well:

In the link is a high end provider in Cape Town that can be all yours for 7 nights for 27,000 ZAR (about $3,500 USD).

South Africa is such an amazing country and I cannot even imagine what an experience like 3 nights in Cape Town and 3 nights on safari in the Sabi Sand Reserve would be like with a woman like Shakira.

The trip of a lifetime would set you back the following:

Airfare - $1,000 (add $300 from West Coast)
Shakira for 7 nts - $3,500
Vuyatela, 3 nts - $1,500 (all inclusive)(http://sabi.krugerpark.co.za/djuma-vuyatela-lodge.html)
Cape Grace hotel, 4 nts - $1,500. Voted the best hotel in the world by Conde Nast Traveler in 2000.
(http://www.capegrace.com/)
R/T airfare for two to Hoedspruit for safari - $500
Grand Total for 7 nights you will never forget - $8,000

Talk about sensory overload...the natural beauty of Cape Town, the amazing experience of going on safari and all with a top notch provider by your side the whole time at a rate PER DAY that is not much more than the rate PER HOUR of an American provider.

And please don't anyone bother me with the AIDS rate in South Africa.  You cannot compare a woman like Shakira with the rural South Africans where AIDS is a plague.

I will be in South Africa in just a few weeks now but because I am married and will not be alone, I can hope for nothing more than a short romp with Shakira or another like her.

The last thing I would ever do would be to take an American provider on a holiday, given their rates.  South African women cannot be compared to Mexican women, Costa Rican women or Thai women or anywhere else.  Their first language is ENGLISH and many of them are 100% white or mostly white and their accent is enough to make you nearly shoot your wad right there.  It's like a British accent, only sexier.  Ever see Lethal Weapon II or III with the hot little South African diplomat chick that Mel Gibson shags???  Just like that.

South Africa is a hobbyist paradise and while a woman of Shakira's status may cost $500 per day, there are places to go to get very hot young women (18+, although the Age of Consent is only 16 in South Africa) for about $50 USD per hour, everything included and paid to the front desk.  

You will likely have to pay a U.S. escort of any caliber a minimum of $1,500 PER NIGHT for her company plus all her airfare and other travel expenses.

I am so envious of guys that have the freedom to travel and just think it is such a pity that none are knowledgable or adventurous enough to come to South Africa to fulfill what would be MY personal dream of a hobbying holiday in South Africa.  Please, somebody, let me live my dreams through YOUR dick!!!
If you like it you can send a Paypal to a girl like WowNikki or equivalent for me with all the money that you have saved!

Someday somebody will listen, just as they finally listened to me about TJ and Adelita's Bar down there.  Forget about TJ...if you have the time go to South Africa, hook up with a top notch provider, experience the beauty and awesome vibe of Cape Town, go on safari, and have the best time of your natural life!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------

Las Vegas is fun but if you are going to spend big bucks, expand your horizons a little...errr, A LOT more and go someplace that you will never forget.  There are casinos in Johannesburg also and tons of providers.  Check out a website called www.sextrader.co.za and you will find a multitude of providers that are probably available for $400 USD - $500 USD per night.

I'm really not trying to spam this board with South Africa info, I am just excited about my approaching trip and think it is a waste for hobbyists to go to Vegas, Europe or the Caribbean with a provider when there are so many hot girls in South Africa of every color.

crank_yanker 3500 reads
posted
19 / 23

This thread has turned into a general analysis of snobbery.  I'm more interested in how snobbery occurs in the context of the hobby.  I'd like to hear cases of how its occurred both within and outside of the hobby.  For example, I can tell you one experience I had with a provider who was an intellectual snob.  Though I sensed that going into it, she was hot so I wasn't gonna leave!  It was a symptom of other things which is why we didn't connect.  Outside of the hobby, though it hasn't happened to me, I'm curious if acquaintances of hobbyists are snobs about the hobby.  Also, are acquaintances of providers similarly snobbish?
Cheers,
CY
P.S. With the exception of snob snobbery, snobbery suck!

STUMPY 25 Reviews 4969 reads
posted
20 / 23
frankd 10 Reviews 3267 reads
posted
21 / 23

Although we are in the minority here, I concur with your perspective.

f

shotdsherriff 5 Reviews 4227 reads
posted
22 / 23

Z,

You yourself didn't happen to attend a less than prestigious school did you? Just a guess!

I myself attended a very well-respected school, still drive a shitty car and have never had one of those "things" on my plate.

bank2 3327 reads
posted
23 / 23

It comes from my wife!!! She has been teaching a class in it for about 3 years now, ever since we had our daughter.

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