I guess I am somewhat troubled by the fact that TER insists on BBBJ's being offered in order to give 9 & 10 performance ratings. What the hell is wrong with safe sex? Is TER trying to promote STDS or worse? When I read a review that says "swallows it" or "spits it out" along with DFK, I am pretty well turned off from that provider.
Come on guys, get real - this is the 21st century and we have to live with what the past 20 years has dealt us.
I would like to know what top level providers have to say about this issue.

Actually swallowing is almost safer than you think, unless they have cuts in the mouth, because your stomach acid kills anything almost instantly...

sasha

This subject has been discussed many times before on this board. IMHO the HIV risk is very low for the client receiving a BBBJ.  But I rarely get BBBJs nowadays because last year I got a very common STD (a few pills got rid of it) from a very popular LA provider who does BBBJs.

I love DATY, so I only choose health conscious providers who only do CBJs.  My reasoning is that they are least likely to catch STD, which cuts my chances too.

Thanks - I agree

I'LL BE IN TOUCH SO YOUR ACIDS COULD KILL MY FLUIDS - I GOTTA TRY YOU OUT!

Yes, you can call me a hypocrite because I have seen providers who do bbbj's but no more. I know several people who have caught things this way and will not be doing it any more myself....

I agree wholeheartedly with Jake. I think that while TER is an excellent, well organized site that they should re-evaluate this idea of only giving 9's and 10's to bbbj girls.

I would think you'd be encouraging the girls being safe --for their sake and the sake of the client! --not encouraging them to do unsafe acts!

I have jumped on the bandwagon. After what I saw happen to several people (yes, even my patients) I know I say NO MORE BBBJ's.

G D (a doctor who should have known better)

I just lost the whole post that I made, but I will write it again. No problem.

I AGREE whole heartedly with Jake that yes, bbbj's are a thing of the past. I have had patients AND friends catch infections from this practice, and although I may have been a hypocrite in the past I will never do a bbbj again unless in a commited relationship.

I have learned my lesson.

And while TER is an excellent well organized board I would think they'd be encouraging women to practice SAFE acts only. NOT encouraging them (and even preventing them from scoring 9's and 10's) if they do UNsafe acts.

It's the 21'st century TER. Please, get with it.

THanks

A doctor who knows better...........

i've been flamed pretty hard in the past for my views on safe sex, but my opinion is an informed one, i have a right to it, and i won't stop talking about it.

the only COMPLETELY safe sex is NO sex. latex condoms do not prevent disease, in fact unbroken human skin is a BETTER barrier than latex against viral infection. condoms do offer an extra protective barrier and they do encapsulate the semen, but comdoms can leak, break, or fall off. if any part of your groin touches any moisture from the woman, around the condom, the risk for contracting bacterial disease like gonorrhea is the same as if you had no condom at all.

oral sex is very low risk for venereal and bloodborne disease. not only does stomach acid kill virus, as sasha mentioned, but there are also proteins in saliva that are estimated to kill up to 90% of the viruses they encounter.

can you guess the number of lesbian women, whose only risk factor is unprotected sex with female partners, have been infected with the HIV virus? zero. Documented cases of HIV/Hep transmitted via any oral sex? zero. I'M NOT SAYING IT CAN'T HAPPEN! i'm saying the risk is extremely low. Sexually transmitted HIV and Hepatitis B infection occur when a man ejaculates or leaves a significant amount of blood inside a vaginal or anal cavity.

"safe sex" people: show me medical information ANYWHERE that says that, of people who engage in sex with multiple partners, unprotected oral significantly increases risk - and i will never leave the house again without a condom you want safe sex? stop doing it.

please - go to the center for disease control or national institute of health websites (cdc dot gov - niddk dot nimh dot org, i think) OR check out the link i've provided below that has Q&A from Dr ryan kull of columbia university. read vonnegut's "welcome to the monkey house" to find out what happens when we legislate sex without pleasure

finally - at the risk of getting myself in trouble, as lisaMN did recently on this board, i am a biologist. i worked in a microbiology lab for seven years doing DNA research, specifically around the action of HIV inside human cells. i am a teacher, certified by the occupational safety and health administration, to teach bloodborne pathogen safety to healthcare professionals. and i am in the middle of a career change, just completed a bachelors in nursing and will be working as an RN soon.

what does that prove? nothing. i'm just as full of shit as the next guy. i know many will still disagree vehemently; i only hope that you will recognize that i haven't come by these opinions lightly, and that i have thought with the big head as well as with the little one.

After seeing Howard Stern late one night I take Saran Wrap with me in case I dine at the Y.

This is gradually becoming a re-thread.  

The rating system I think is fair.   If you do special favors, you get a higher rating.

Now, HOW you interpret that is your concern.  No one is mandating unsafe sex ... The rating just reflects that you do something special.  

There are numerous misconceptions about STD, and HIV.  Do your homework, and do what you feel is most comfortable for you.



-- Modified on 7/25/2002 10:03:02 PM

So is the TER staff taking notice of this?

But something special doesn't have to BBBJ! I reviewed Felicity recently and feel she deserves a 10 for perfomance just because of her overall attitude and how sweet & generous she is. But, TER bounced my review, I gave her a 9 and they reduced it to a 7 because I said CBJ. I objected and they finally changed it to an 8. Staff needs to take notice of the above comments from several reviewers.

Its the " ALMOST " that concerns me. What about those other annoying bugs (Chlamydia,Gonorrhea,Herpes,Syphilis,Veneral Warts). Plus how often do the providers get tested?

I think TER Staff has done a wonderful job in attempting to create some consistency in the overall performance Rating.

The fact remains that some will do more than others.  And it is not fair to those who do more, to be slighted.  According to the rating guidelines, a perfect score of 10 is for somebody who provides an incredible experience where almost anything goes (DFK, BBBJ, Multiple-Pops, and Greek).

If you enjoyed your session that's great.   You may want to ad your personal commentary about how great the session was in the juicy details.  

Sad, but true -- RULES are RULES!

Jake,

Like it or not TER established the criteria a long time ago & I seriously doubt it will be changed regardless of how much you feel it should be.  

I believe anal & bisexual also make a gal eligible for higher ratings every bit as much as does BBBJ.  The operative word is eligible..nothing automatically bumps up the score--but I'm sure you knew that already.  Personally, I don't practice anal & seeing two gals doing one another does absolutely nothing for me...but there are obviously those who do like anal & do get turned on by two women together, & probably many more guys who like the BBBJ.  I don't argue about their preferences...they're entitled to them.  And if TER feels it's appropriate to make these guidline matters, all I can say is....so what?  All these scores are subjective anyway, so it certainly isn't a big deal to me...no deal at all actually.

As to the health & safety issue, anyone with half a brain has already availed themselves of the many sources of information available & drawn their own conclusions as to the level of risk they are willing to take, realizing that nothing is 100% safe.  And if you took the time to research any of the numberous threads that have been posted on the safety issue, you'll also find that people don't all have the same opinion.

Your real answer is quite simple...use the search function & elimate from your consideration any gal who engages in any practice that's riskier than you would like it to be.  The bottom line is you are the one in control when it comes to that.

I really don't mean to come off as being preachy about this, but you seem to be starting on something of a small crusade (I did notice you've posted on the suggestion board also)on the issue.  You'll find some who support your views, but you simply won't change the minds of those who don't...you're trying to catch smoke in a bucket if you think you can.

I get regular checkups about every 2-3 months and I'm selective on who receives BBBJ's.  And now for the question to be reversed, how often do the clients get checked out?  More times than not, men are carriers of STD's and never have any symptoms, whereas women are more commonly known to have symptoms and know something is up.  Anybody who plays in this hobby, even as safe as they may think they are should also be responsible and take the time to get checked.  There are many clinics listed in your yellow pages who are very discreet and anonymous, some even can charge your insurance company for "cholesterol" tests.  So be responsible and unselfish and get tested regularly, be safe and have fun!

shouldn't you tell us who this provider is so we can avoid getting something- unless she no longer has the condition?

Does this mean every lady with a 10 in performance provided BBFS?  

I've had emails from gent's that have tried to give me a 10 in performance and it was rejected.  Now I'm thankful if this is truly the case.

Wow

i agree that the "performance" rating should not be tied to specific acts. in my mind "performance" means the emotional experience of the encounter. a woman can look stunning and run through every act in the book and leave me utterly unsatisfied because she was a robot with a blank face.

but the real point is that the "service performance" ratings are already there, checked off, yes or no, in the list of services provided.

so change the rating from "performance" to "sensuality" or "personality," and remove the forced scoring for specific sex acts, and list the sex acts as services provided, and everything is perfectly clear.

as for "safe sex" and bbbj's ... get real. you can get std's like herpes with a cover on, and std's like syphillis or gonorrhea if the cover is improperly removed or if intercourse is unusually prolonged or vigorous. you can contract hiv from oral semen if you have tartar related gum bleeding, or bite your cheeks in your sleep, or have a slightly infected tongue piercing.

"risks" means "unpredictable outcomes." if you assume a cover protects you from risks, you're delusional. for better or worse, every sexual contact is a personal contact, and you need to be real sure in yourself what kind of professional (and personal) judgment you think your provider (or your client) has, and be ready to live with any consequences. in that sense, the cover is a symbol or token to both sides that they try not to do anything stupid. but it is still a symbol.

-- Modified on 7/27/2002 9:00:24 AM

Sounds like we agree - but doesn't sound like TER is going to change anything. So I guess we just have to say the performance was a 10 in the comments section.

The link below (found via one given above) leads to the only hint that I have yet been able to find on the web, that stats might be out there somewhere on the incidence of non-HIV STD transmission via BBBJ to the recipient thereof.  As far as it goes, this hint is a relatively reassuring one regarding everything but Herpes.  Elsewhere I've looked, info on the (extremely low) HIV risk seems to drown out the info on the rest of the STD risk picture, except for the occasional note that these other risks do exist.  But the Q&A linked here is rather old, and it gives no actual numbers whatsoever on the risks for any of these other STDs.  

Could you quantify your anecdotal experience for us, Doctor, with due caveats regarding the representative character of your sample?  I tend to doubt it, since you probably would not have a fix on how many patients enjoyed BBBJs with impunity.

Thanks for the clarification.

There is a couple of flaws not with your logic but with the stats you use. you say there are zero cases of HIV having been transmitted via oral sex..The only way to know that is a true statement is to have a sample of HIV positive people that only engaged in oral sex.  That seems unlikely since I would imagine that anyone who engages in oral sex is also going to have have intercours before or after.  thus its possible that someone could actually get the HIV virus from oral sex but it would be attributed to intercourse   Granted its more likely. but I don't think the stats you quote are anything to breath easy about. Being a Ph.D. I know a little about testing and measures and how to infer the wrong thing from results.  

also, some lady said that men should be tested .. Yes she is correct, but she is incorrect in that it is women that are most likey not to know if something is wrong with them. Men typically incur serious discomfort and pain, while women usually don't know unless they go to the docotor.  The point is if you are in this lifestyle, you should be tested period.  

Also someone said that they only DATY someone that does CBJ's.. uhmmmmm, while its not a high probability, a man can still transmit a disease from his mouth to the gential organs of the woman.  sure your risk is down but not out...