I'd rather be nibbling on you, Felicia! LOL

We have some terrific mutual friends, so it's not an issue.
I have lots of references and posted reviews for screening in general.

LE have undercover identities so your screening is worthless. That is the point providers cannot seem to understand, the missing piece of the puzzle, the total denial of the undercover LE reality.

I screen providers by seeing only recommended ultravixens or individuals who have excellent reviews. I never suspect they are LE. We don't have an LE problem in DC, unlike OC and SD.
I would be very cautious myself in Tampa, OC, SD, Chicago, the Carolinas, etc. I would never see a provider in Virginia or Maryland, unless I knew her fairly well already.

In this thread, I'm trying to figure out who all were arrested, so hobbyists can know and not be set up, or not worry too much.
So far only a few of the arrest records have been posted, and the TV pics of the suspects were not much help when viewed through Windows Media Player, but I'll look some more.

Montgomery County Maryland LE are telephoning gents of late whose home or biz numbers were in a suspected providers little book or computer. That's a real good reason to avoid being screened.

One of the providers arrested in Tampa had a very stringent screening process. She met for drinks, checked ID, the whole works. Now she is charged with pros, conspiracy, abetting racketeering, the works. Those charges include seizure and possible forfeiture of assets, cars, homes, so she has an incentive to turn on high profile hobbyists. A lot of good the screening did her.
Choosing where to LIVE is much more important.

The posts on TBD *are* now staying up... and, regardless of the why's and wherefore's, one poster there had a great point in that this sting is probably *over* now. They got the big guys (which is what they want, those big money busts, c'mon honey!), and the little guys they got on the way to get there are already over with... it's unlikely that they're going to keep it going. It's like going after a big mafia guy... once they get the BIG guy, they stop harassing the little ones at the bottom. Regardless this is definitely a time for caution!

Hugs*
Nicole

One of the differences is that some providers offered TBD paid members discounts for services.

Reading from the TBD upgrade membership page... "Bigdoggie.net Members Receive Discounts From Participating Providers". Hence he has getting memberships in return certain providers gave discount to the members - he profited from it.

I'm not trying to trash bigdoggies, I'm pointing out what the prosecution will try to convict him on.

-- Modified on 6/19/2002 8:24:37 AM

Re Charges against TBD will likely be reduced...
Maybe.  But the IRS has not been heard from yet.  And you can be sure they will look at income and whether taxes were paid.

I usually agree with most of Schlong's posts, but must address a few things he has said.
While TBD may be in way over his head, he was the guy they were after and independents, and hobbyists shouldn't get too stressed about all of this. While none of this is a laughing matter, THE target of this local county sting was TBD himself. They charged him on local charges --not interstate and no federal charges (at least so far).
Schlong --as a lawyer, you should know that after three years building a case, they went after the big fish.

For the sake of discussion, tell us, what could he possibly trade to lower his potential sentence? Except that he knows the names of many of the people who run the major escort agencies in the country, does he really have much to offer? Serious question, love your insights.    


And as to the speculation that he is running the site from jail, his bond is $159,000. Most of his site (like that of TER and others) runs itself once its established. But (my speculation here), I doubt it will be up for much longer).

TOUCHE!!

Re:The Big Doggie board (TBD) busted

Thank you Staff. It's so easy for us to become fearful, reactive and impute motives.  Thanks for stating TER's stance.  I agree with you; there must be more than we are being told.  I am a provider who is listed on TBD's top lists, so if I choose to buy into fear, well I could.  Better to stay cool and think with a clear head, as rick 2 points out.  

-- Modified on 6/18/2002 10:58:14 PM

I think it would be naive to believe that if LE were so inclined they couldn't come up with a reason to subpoena the records of TER on the same grounds.  Legally TER may be in the clear, but I doubt if the records could be shielded entirely from LE if they came up with some half-ass excuse.  I that could be used to cause a lot of grief for all of us.  Just be careful...

"We extend our deepest condolences to our competitor."

Staff, stop it, PULEEZE!!!! You're killing me!!!!

Anything for you SweetSable

First is the Sheriff's Press Release, a must-read-first:

http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/Press_Releases/Press_Releases/2002/02-270.html.

1/ That is Tampa. TER is in LA, different climate. Not so many fundamentalists pushing their hypocritical morality on the politicians. Maybe TBD is hosted from Fairfax, Virginia, which is worse than Tampa.

2/ The TBD charges include destruction of evidence, and something akin to resisting arrest, and other items unrelated to free speech.
We'll know more when the State releases copies of the actual charges, but clearly Tampa LE is going after much more than free speech, a much more active involvement in prostitution.

3/ I suppose that the biggest fish in LA are the descendents of Heidi Fleiss, i e, Nicisgirls.com and LA-Exotics. TER is low key and well down the food chain where it is safer. LA LE has higher priorities than consensual adult behavior. Tampa and Hillsborough County do not. There are more than 300 Baptist churches in Orlando, which also has a large piece of this prosecution, and a bad history of harassing adult gents' clubs.

4/ TER is almost entirely free speech and press. The charges say that TBD was more "hands on," beyond the line of pure information. Even much tobacco advertising is "commercial speech" protected by the First Amendment although cigs are highly dangerous in ways that bbjs are not. TER is not inciting anybody to do anything, just passing along info, same as when guys exchange e-mails about providers

5/ TBD was heavily into advertising and making money, a factor that detracts from the speech side of his defense enormously. Ads and pics over there started disappearing fast yesterday, leaving little xx's behind. TBD also owns part of TBDXCiteMe.net or something, an escort ad board, plus. The Sheriff hasn't mentioned that specifically, but it has a Florida component.

6/ TER is NOT run by a high profile guy who goes around the country supposedly seeing lots of escorts, supposedly exchanging ad rate reductions for sex. That seems to be a big part of the case according to the Sheriff and Florida news. The Tampa Tribune and Orlando Sentinel are both online, incidentally, and good to check with daily for a while.

7/ Most importantly TER is simply NOT actively promoting prostitution in the "in your face" hands on manner of which TBD is accused, or at all. TER has never set any guy up to see any provider.

8/ I get the feeling that TBD had many enemies and few friends. There's a real reaction of "It could not have happened to a more deserving guy." TER is quite different in that regard.
Escorts who are enemies will help the prosecution in exchange for immunity or just to vent.

9/ TER is surely more sophisticated legally than TBD. Who knows what private statements TBD has made that will be used against him as admissions against penal interest. The press release quotes some, and there are nine providers as defendants too who'll sing. LE will fan out and interview all 100 escorts on the TBD Top List for the SE, most of whom are in Florida and can be forced to testify under grants of immunity. That is where the testimony on sex for advertising favors may come in.
The posts and reviews in TBD are all business records and may be fully admissible in court for some purposes. I taught federal evidence at one time. This trial will break new ground in the evidence field in many ways.

Most of those are pragmatic differences, only some are legal ones. As Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr said, the life of the law has been experience, not logic, or something like that.
The details of statutory elements, evidence, defenses, and the like will keep the lawyers very busy, but the practical overall Gestalt is more important to a jury.

This TBD prosecution will have a huge chilling effect on the hobby. It is another 9/11 to hobbyists and providers alike.
There is a danger that prosecutors all over the US, state & federal, will use the Tampa pattern. The Florida prosecutors will be speakers at all kinds of LE meetings, conventions, and donut tasting festivities. June 18 was "Dog Day" in many ways.
This will certainly get the attention of Ashcroft, and he will want his piece of the pie, a higher profile similar prosecution, somewhere else, such as Atlanta or LA. There are so many bad apples in LA that I cannot imagine a good apple as being the target.

I'm tempted to write a little book on this case, to follow it closely, maybe a screenplay too. It has everything. Charlie Sheen could play himself! Bill Clinton could make his film debut, surfing for bbjs from the Oval Office.

I hope that answers your concerns. This is only the beginning.
TLS

-- Modified on 6/19/2002 9:55:25 AM

LE in every state should be more concern about terrorists and other other freaks!!!!!!!

I seldom respond to any posts that appear to have political overtones of any kind, therefore although I'm making an excetion it this case, I will make it very brief.

While I have no idea where you are from, as long as you infer that J. Bush was somehow responsible for the the fanatics in Florida---How exactly is it that you feel about California's own Gray Davis?  The last time I looked there was more of a 9/11 connection in CA than anywhere else.  Hmmmm???