I probably have the wrong attitude towards civie women, but I just can't help myself.  The more wonderful experiences I have with providers, my desire to date civie woman decreases.  Even the attractive to hot civies seem so......so boring and so ordinary.  It's been my experience in the civie world that I'll rarely find someone to turn me on.  As for the few times that I have, either she already has a boyfriend, or there's just too much competition for her.  Who needs the hassle?  

You know, most of society, at least here in America, frowns on our community of hobbyists and providers.  We are literally looked down by many as some of the worst people in society, but whatever.  Dudes who don't know shit about this hobby and look down on it can make fun of me all they want while they get to settle for a 5 for free. They can do that all they want while I get a 10 for $$$.  

I'm not sure there is anything or anyone that would make want to return to the civie dating scene, but that's just me. I'm not speaking for everyone.  To each, his or her own.

-- Modified on 4/10/2012 4:53:36 PM

Providers are easy and convenient.  You don't have court them, wine or dine them, listen to their problems, or comfort them after they've had a bad day or get sick.  You get to bypass all that real life stuff and go straight for the sex.

Plus you don't have to talk to her again unless you want another session.

Yeah its a pretty good deal for those who like NSA but of course its not real.  One day you may want a girl who actually likes you and wants to hang out with you without being paid.  Then, and only then, will the civies regain their value.

totally agree..we are looked at as jaded or not capable of getting dates in the so-called civie world..the opposite is true..we see a woman we want to be with and bed..it happens..there is too much drama and bullshit in the civie world..play their game..you might get lucky..most times it is just that..a game.i am at the age where i am tired of playing cat and mouse..no more sweet talk..no more holding hands..the providers i have seen have more sex appeal and feminine qualities than half of the so-called available women in the civie world..i like to be right where i am now..and plan to stay that way regardless of what other people think..just my 2 cents..

You might be forgetting these providers are also civie women outside of the hobby. The 10 you spend $$$ on other guys get to see for free in her civilian life. Let me blow your mind some more. Some of those "attractive to hot" civies you talk about could actually also be providers. Seeing a provider in no way makes up for an absence of human interaction/affection that a civilian woman can give you. You know, a girl who wants to get to know you, for you. Not the 10 that will see you for $$$. Perspective, man. Have some of it.

well guys, you are not alone.  the few civie dates i have went on (if you can call them dates) have left me totally disappointed.  a lot of boring chit-chat followed by him trying to put the moves on me.  if we decided to fuck, well therein lies the disappointing part.  ugh

none of them have been able to last 5 minutes, muchless an hour.  they also seem to think they are eever too good to pay for sex too.  

each time i left knocking my hand to my head saying "wtf"?  did i just give that dude the best piece of ass he has ever had for?  he couldnt even walk me to my car when it was over!

i will remain loyal to my clients.  i have NEVER left a session disappointed!

and further you are also right on the money when you infer at the end that this might not be for everyone.

If a person is young and family oriented, then sure, find a nice gal to settle down with and raise a family.

But the hobby is always there as a very affordable and safe option for when things don't go right in the sex department.

So many seek their solace by going after neighbors, friends and co-workers often with disasterous results.

The hobby lets us have it all for an affordable price.

No wonder "decent" society looks down on us:  We've learned the real secret, and they can't stand it.

I suppose when I was a young stud, it was more or less worth it.  Even then, I wish my mind had been more open to hobbying.  As I've gotten older, the dangers involved in working the civie scene are just too great.  The fucking you get just isn't worth the fucking you get.  With hobbying, it's all much better delineated.

I would imagine if you are all about yourself and a nut with no strings that it is always going to be hard to get away from the hobby. Fact is, relationships take work and that goes for providers and civie women.

I can promise you most women have the same issues whether here or in the outside world. The only difference here is you don't have to hear about it or care. If all you crave is meaningless sex with random women, yes you should absolutely never be in a relationship because you are only going to hurt the person attempting to be all you need. Once you get used to a girl bending over backwards for you and telling you what you want to hear, it's a bit hard when one hits you with the bitter truth...that's life.

becomes the nagging gf. Love what you said about not wanting to cook, but being from the south it's embedded in our DNA. I adore cooking, hosting, entertaining at all levels on or off the clock. Cooking and bjs are two things I don't think I could ever give up even if I got married AGAIN ha ha.

Posted By: dddbabe

But that during OFF times we ARE civvie women

This is why so many try to date the ladies they meet via "TERdom" and end up scratching their heads while pondering the greatest mystery ever.  That girl who never seemed to have any issues suddenly has them all.

So they ask themselves "whaaaaat? she wants me to care, and listen to her crap, and go to drug store in the middle of the night and be faithful and do all that other stuff that civvies want?"

Women of TER often compared to restaurants when it comes to menues and pricing.  Now, lets imagine this conversation on Yelp's Restaurant Review Section.


"I probably have the wrong attitude towards preparing my own dinner, but I just can't help myself.  The more wonderful experiences I have in various New York's restaurants, my desire to cook decreases.  Even the best tasting dishes in the cookbook seem ......so boring and so ordinary.  It's been my experience preparing my own meals that I'll rarely find a recepie to appeal to me.  As for the few times that I have, its just too much work.  Who needs the hassle?  

You know, most of society, at least here in America, frowns on people who hire other people to cater to their every whim.   People who don't know shit about catering services and fine dining and look down on it can make fun of me all they want while they get to settle for a mediocre meal for free. They can do that all they want while I get a gourmet treat for $$$.  

I'm not sure there is anything or anyone that would make want to return to putting an effort to prepare my own food, but that's just me. I'm not speaking for everyone.  To each, his or her own. "



Lina

And that is that a woman can be the most amazing totally ass-kicking sex worker in the world, and not know a darned thing about how to meet a man's OTHER needs, how to conduct a disagreement in a relationship without it escalating into oblivion or even how to be in a relationship at all.

In a p4p scenario, the percentage of a man -- the true man -- to which a woman is exposed is minimal. She may get him at his best or his worst, but she isn't getting or dealing with all of him. The same applies to a man -- he is just getting the sex part and maybe even some acting.

Dealing with a whole person, warts and all, is a very different scenario for which, often, neither the woman nor the man are prepared.

Hobbying is easy. Show up, pay, and get the dessert that a woman usually reserves for scenarios in which all of HER emotional needs are met. Take her out of that environment? And she has all of the same needs as any other woman -- and meeting those needs will be a challenge for any man.

or you're maniacally masochistic there is no reason to suffer dating, courtship and marriage.

But that during OFF times we ARE civvie women

This is why so many try to date the ladies they meet via "TERdom" and end up scratching their heads while pondering the greatest mystery ever.  That girl who never seemed to have any issues suddenly has them all.

So they ask themselves "whaaaaat? she wants me to care, and listen to her crap, and go to drug store in the middle of the night and be faithful and do all that other stuff that civvies want?"

Women of TER often compared to restaurants when it comes to menues and pricing.  Now, lets imagine this conversation on Yelp's Restaurant Review Section.


"I probably have the wrong attitude towards preparing my own dinner, but I just can't help myself.  The more wonderful experiences I have in various New York's restaurants, my desire to cook decreases.  Even the best tasting dishes in the cookbook seem ......so boring and so ordinary.  It's been my experience preparing my own meals that I'll rarely find a recepie to appeal to me.  As for the few times that I have, its just too much work.  Who needs the hassle?  

You know, most of society, at least here in America, frowns on people who hire other people to cater to their every whim.   People who don't know shit about catering services and fine dining and look down on it can make fun of me all they want while they get to settle for a mediocre meal for free. They can do that all they want while I get a gourmet treat for $$$.  

I'm not sure there is anything or anyone that would make want to return to putting an effort to prepare my own food, but that's just me. I'm not speaking for everyone.  To each, his or her own. "



Lina

Until your self confidence finds its way out of the low lands ,
providers are your "only"  chance  for a ten .

  What does a BF have to do with dating a civilian >  You aren't asking for a three way .
 Guys get dumped every day . With the right attitude,  you too could have your very own ten ,  and hobby , if you're so inclined , provided you are a bad boy  .  

  I think of civilian dating as a  more challenging  game,  with the same results , certainly no hassle , the occasional evil woman excluded  .

Guys who become  aggravated when providers don't return their calls fast enough to suit their fancy ,  shouldn't bother wasting their time  with civilians .

 Civvie dating takes a lot  more patience,  like  hunting in a blind stand , not always successful , usually fun trying .



 

a very hard time ever walking away from it...a high percentage anyway. Who would not want a woman that only fks them, tells them how great they are in every way possible, is always in lingerie and heels, and one he never has an argument with? Well...this is a fantasy, not freakin reality so maybe that's why.

If you're addicted to that fantasy, might be time to rethink your life because sooner or later it will come to an end. Who would not prefer a hooker over a civie girl when you are not getting the whole person? With all the talk about gfe, feelings, being intimate, etc. I higly doubt if we really provided such a date men would still be lining up for it all things considered lol.

Cooking and Bj's...
Like i said, some lucky guy, is gonna hit the jackpot one day.....cool!!

I met a guy tonight at the gym.

To him, I am a civilian.  Oh wait.  I AM a civilian about 23 hours per day when Im not wearing my escort t-shirt

The only difference between an escort and a regular woman (sexually), is motivation.  

Pay a civie $400-$500 an hour and she'll be just as horny and hot for you as any provider.

Dear London:
I was just wondering if you had to hazard a guess what percentage of the guys that you would see would be emotionally unavailable? Also if you were a mental health professional,how many would you have some apprehension about and what exercises would you give them to help them assimilate to the civilian world? Also would you be interested in writing a series for say showtime or hbo on this subject and if so what examples would you use? Also as a mental health professional would you have a metric that would indicate to you how a client would be progressing with these symptoms?

I am not a doctor, but I pretend to be one on TER

It's not complicated.  A civie relationship is REAL and you have to actually BE something special to her and treat her well for her approval.  A provider is being paid to act as though she likes you and to keep it all new and exciting but in reality she would probabably have nothing to do with you!  LMAO It's really that simple.  If you fail at real life relationships I think you may need to examine why and not delude yourself with a life of p4p relationships.

Meaning I haven't participated in p4p sex in at least a year, since slightly before I realized that I had a girlfriend.

I play on the boards from time to time because both my BFF and girlfriend are providers, I formerly hobbied, and thus I have an interest in the topic. I also think that as a former hobbyist who is generally supportive of sex work, I bring a different perspective.

I'll take the girlfriend over p4p any day.

I hate to sound crass, but most hobbying is motivated not by sex per se, but by things that no manly man would admit to, and for which he is using sex as a proxy. It could be something seen as negative -- such as some sort of power, or something seen as a weakness -- such as a need for validation. But in any case, there is an underlying emotional drive outside of the sheer slippery friction. Otherwise, a bottle of lube would do fine and is a lot less expensive.

Let's be honest. A NEUROSURGEON in Boston earns an average of $240/hr. Objectively speaking, as a purely physical thing, sex with an actress who pretends she likes you but won't know or care if you are alive or dead three days later isn't even remotely as valuable as what a neurosurgeon does. I'm using a bit of hyperbole to make my point, but my point is that the only reason sex workers can charge what they do is because men, even though they will never admit it to themselves and instead only express emotions such as rage, greed, lust and so forth, are trying (albeit unsuccessfully) to meet unmet emotional needs.

My theory as to why some could be addicted to hobbying is because they are constantly trying to use sex as a way to achieve something that paid sex with a sex worker simply cannot achieve.

The thing is, real relationships, albeit at a cost in terms of time, caring and involvement, actually CAN meet those needs.

I never hobbied for sex, really. I remember realizing this when an amazingly beautiful provider stated the fact outright that I was having sex with her just for the opportunity to talk with her. Hey -- I love the girl and I DO find her sexually attractive, but in general she was right that I could always take or leave sex in general within the hobby. Even my last hobby appointment I gave the girl the option of collecting the same fee for meeting me for lunch or for behind closed doors and she got to choose. What I was really paying for was a sense of somewhat normal interaction with an intellectually stimulating woman that I could respect as an equal because I had a dearth of that in my life.

When I selected ladies to see, I didn't even look at their ads, reviews or pictures. I looked at their board posts and blogs. I selected them based upon compatibility of personality and things like that. I am happy to say that I am either friends or friendly with every provider I ever saw as a result.

Either way, I quit hobbying the second I realized I had a girlfriend. I wasn't seeking a girlfriend, but sometimes things happen that surprise you.

There were a lot of reasons I quit hobbying, even though the nature of things is such that there can be no reasonable expectation of monogamy. In the first case, for well over a year, I really could no longer comprehend the idea of sex with anyone else as being even remotely desirable. It's like my brain had been rewired so that other women didn't even register as female. I think that's mitigating a bit, but not much, and it has taken a long time. I was sort of freaked out by that.

I also certainly wouldn't want to metaphorically devalue her by paying someone else for what she provides me, especially if her identity became known and she would be exposed to all sorts of ridicule from other sex workers if I posted a review or something. The idea of potentially hurting her like that just doesn't set well with me. I am not and never have been in the business of hurting good people gratuitously, and my girlfriend is right up there on the list of people not to hurt. Hey, in ANY relationship both people are going to get hurt sometimes. It comes with the territory, and usually it is either unintentional or a matter of necessity. Okay. But a lot of ways of hurting people are easily avoided. Yes?

In addition, because of the intense emotional involvements that accompany sex with my girlfriend that make it for me almost a religious experience, it's almost as though sex with some stranger getting paid isn't even sex. In all honesty, I would really hate to be the provider who followed my girlfriend. Compared to her, all non-emotive-p4p-sex-with-a-girl-who-is-so-afraid-of-you-she-uses-a-fake-name so-called "sex" would rate a "1" for performance.

And that's because a real world relationship can provide things a provider cannot. It can actually achieve the meeting of underlying emotional needs that hobbying is often a futile attempt to meet.

Can there be other purposes of hobbying? Sure. In an open-type relationship it can be used to explore sexual interests and fetishes in which the other partner is uninterested. It can be used, indeed, to simply sate a man's occasional desire for variety. In these scenarios, I think it is a non-addictive activity. (And I'd be able to give performance ratings higher than "1." LOL)

Where the addiction comes in, imo, is when men are dishonest with themselves about what their actual objectives are in hobbying, and thus they use sex with strange women as a way to meet emotional needs that can't be met that way, so they keep coming back for more and more.

Thankfully, even when I hobbied, I didn't do much of it. Maybe 4-6 times a year. So it was never addictive for me, likely because I am usually pretty honest with myself.

Addendum 1
---------------
On many occasions I have read rants by sex workers on TER. These rants are often by (aliased) well-reviewed and respected providers, and often by providers I admire as people.

The most recent one I read was by a lady who said most of her clients were Jewish lawyers in cheap shoes. I guess ethnicity, occupation and especially footwear matter more than I thought, lol. But this provider's diatribe revealed in stark detail the utter disdain in which she held her clients. I would almost say she viewed them as barely or even sub human.

Hers was not the only rant of that nature that I have read. After reading a few dozen of these commentaries by beautiful and intelligent women who blanket-labeled hobbyists -- just by virtue of being hobbyists -- as essentially the scum of the earth, it started to have an impact.

Since these are aliased posts, and I have no way of knowing with certainty who these women are and furthermore saw so many other women cheering them (as well as cheering that lady in Atlanta who was writing the book and HER screeds against her clients), it ultimately dawned on me that in most hobby scenarios, I ran a substantial risk of literally paying a woman who hated my guts.

As a result, the last year I hobbied, I only booked ONE woman that I hadn't previously seen. All my other sex was with a civie lady or with providers I already knew saw me as a PERSON.

I am a decent worthwhile human being. I have scraped my way up from unbelievable poverty to be successful and well-known. I am not ugly, I am not evil and I WILL NOT allow some woman who presents a fake smile and then will go vomit into a toilet after I  leave to touch my body. This applies whether I have a girlfriend or not, am monogamous or not or whatever. Because I DESERVE BETTER than to be touched by someone who cannot see past a label in order to appreciate me. And I darned sure am not going to pay for that dubious privilege.

Now, one thing I WILL do on occasion is pick a pretty much random backpage girl and give her a random act of kindness. I'll pay her then treat her to a foot rub, game of cards or something. But as for sex? Nope. The reason for the random act of kindness is to try to break the cycle of distrust and disdain that is far too prevalent between sex workers and their clients: a cycle of disdain that made me all too happy to exit.

Addendum 2
---------------
I realize not all sex with sex workers falls into the soulless variety I described. In many cases, there is or can be genuine mutual admiration and so forth that can make it worthwhile.

Somehow, in many respects, I have managed to develop darned good taste in women. Any woman I have seen, civie or sex worker, in the past several years or so would be an excellent sex partner and because of what is between their ears and behind their sternums, would be worthy of performance ratings well above "1."

What I was referencing in that description was the four-eff variety of hobbying that dominates the hobby. Four-eff hobbying with women who are afraid you are going to steal, rape, abuse, molest or otherwise harm them, who fear you will stalk them and who post screeds like those I described earlier ... I am sorry ... but ... YUCK. Why in the hell would I ever want sex with someone who actively feared me, thought I was a monster or something like that?

Okay? Clear? Good!