so called legitimate LMT spas.

Check out how they market themselves if the have a website.  Is it full of scantily clad gals with come hither eyes, or is it something that you could put in a magazine for a school fund raiser?

Also, if the gal asks you that "What do you like?" question at the beginning, she may only be inquiring as to what kind of pressure or style of massage (Swedish, shiatsu, Thai, etc.) that you want.

On the other hand, if after the flip, she asks that question, that almost always is a come-on to start the negotiations for the sex part.

Then there are the little nuances:  Do they have a  PA playing new age music (no sex), or a more disco or oldie type of repertoire (better)?

Are there reflexology charts on the wall (bad), or depictions of the Kama Sutra (good)?

Are the lights turned down so low you can't see for a while until your eyes acclimate (good), or is theh place nice and bright and sunny (not so good)?

Are there mirrors on the wall (good), or just a tiny mirror near the door so you can tie your tie afterwards (no help)?  A mirror on the ceiling over the table is the jackpot.

I think this is part of what makes going to new massage parlors fun - trying to figure out if you'll get any action or just a (hopefully) decent massage.

There is no definite determination that will always hold up.  Sometimes I've gone to the sleaziest AMP only to be told that they do not do any extras, and other times I struck the jackpot at some place that looked like the Pope could be a client.

There is one venue however where I find there is never any sex:  hotel and resort spas.  Unless anyone has found differently, I've never had any luck getting even a HE at any such venue.

After getting plenty of experience with full escort services, I decided to try the massage/body rub scene. The experience was fantastic and I found myself actually getting more aroused knowing I couldnt have sex with the masseuse.  Weird, I know, but thats what happened. Had one of the best releases I've ever had (havent written a review on her yet so dont go looking for it, lol).

So Im looking to get exclusively into the massage scene for a while. My first masseuse was extremely easy to talk to but I suspect they wont all be that way. My question is, when they come in the room and ask what I like, should I just come out and say I like nude body rubs with a handjob at the end? Or will that get me kicked out?

I guess another way to ask the same question is, when they come in and ask what I like, is that their way of seeing if Im there for more than just a body rub?

Thanks everyone!

Generally, massage therapists who ONLY offer massage do not advertise on hooker boards, so that should be your first clue. "Most" FBSM providers offer L1 and L2 services which means a hand job or a blow job ending, some do L3 which is sex.

Haha I know me too. Twice now. (Not really, lol, but holy crap she's smoking hot).

BTW thanks for your previous post. Very helpful tips there!

Although you may get some general responses here, it is best to hear them from the person you're interested in seeing.
I advertise on BP in bodyrubs and am not an escort while there are mostly escorts claiming to offer massage but have no clue what they're doing.  Advertising sensual massage in the therapeutic section of Cl or BP will get you flagged and reported by angry straightforward LMT's.
Body-ruba are useless if you want an actual legit massage with sensual elements. A legit body worker is better suited to offer an experience more worthwhile.  Just do your homework and try to have an open mind... There are more enjoyable and creative sensual massages that aren't the typical "happy ending"

-- Modified on 12/18/2012 4:02:07 PM

Craig's List used to have the same status as Backpage has now, but after a few sordid events (Remember the Backpage killer up in Boston a few years ago?), the government and LE pretty much got them to back off of adult advertizing, though some still trickles through.

from gals who do all sorts of wonderful extras including FS in some cases.

You might want to check out tantrikas.  Not all of them do all manner of extra, but they do at least a HE, and they generally give excellent massages too.

You might even end up being councelled on how to have a healthier lifestyle.

I know I have.

Not everyone wants reviews so you may be missing out on something really good if you rely heavily on reviews!!
Don't base what someone offers, or doesn't offer by where they advertise. Someone mentioned getting lower quality clients when they advertised in BodyRubs yet the Dr's, attorneys, teachers and businessmen that are my clients would have to disagree with you.  

If you are offering extras upu don't belong in the therapeutic section but you can post in the adult section and mention that your sensual work also offers therapeutic benefit so readers know they are not paying for a useless "fluff & buff"
I've tried posting in Therapeutic and would get nasty emails from threatened LMT's so I stopped.

Don't assume so much .... You are missing out.

Posted By: VegasMassage

Just ask them if they have reviews. Easy, breezy.

I mean this kindly by the way, but do you know how to research a BP/CL advertiser? And have you even looked on your regional board for a legit lady? It's one thing to not know about TER and just blindly go about it. But you're here and still wanting to see unreviewed ladies from BP.... SMH Seriously, big head needs to take over for little head.


Other than the thrill of the unknown, I still can not wrap my brain around why some guys would risk throwing away $$ on just some random, unverifiable half naked chick. Which, more than likely, will end up in a crappy review.

You shouldn't be asking anyone about anything once you've arrived and if she's dumb enough to answer, well just pray to god you didn't just solicit LE. If she's truly theyrapeutic and you solicit her once you get there, she will end the session immediately and not give any money back. I am surrounded by legit therapeutic practioners, they take their work seriously and know that men usually want more. Duh, it's the nature of the beast. However, if that's what they wanted to offer, they'd have REVIEWS. But have fun risking pissing off a therapeutic lady or throwing away some cash, not getting what you want.

Who says upu can't get that AND a top notch real massage?! It's a she that some have such limited ideas and expectations.

Big difference there.

If they are legit therapists, I wouldn't try anything.  You can get away with it, but you need to really build up to the point where you can ask her for those kinds of services.  The average worker who works at a spa...good luck.  But if it's an indie provider that offers therapeutic massage, extras may be available.  Just read the ad copy and see if you can make some sense out of it.  If she says "draping is optional," then she may be open to more.

For bodyrub providers that don't advertise in the legit section...it's just a question of whether they do it topless or nude, how much interaction they allow, and whether they do more than just a handjob.  But don't expect a good massage.

telling guys on a REVIEW board, not to depend on reviews is going to go over too well here, and this is not the first time you've done this. If YOU choose not to have reviews, that's fine, but here guys are trying to stay safe, and without reviews who is to say you're not some wife or LE?

I can tell you this...I would never accept a reference from someone with zero reviews. Word of mouth may be how you get your clients and if so...why are you on a REVIEW board? If you are a real LMT, just being here puts you at risk FYI. If that is why you don't want reviews, then I can understand, but that is not what 90 percent of the women do here nor what the guys here want. This is the newbie board where we teach NEW guys how to stay out of jail, not get ripped off, or robbed by some pimp...all of which is information provided IN REVIEWS.

Without them, you might have credibility on some other board, but most would not say you have it on TER. You are on a review board cruising for clients with your link in every post, but you are preaching against reviews...sorry, but I don't get it.



-- Modified on 12/18/2012 9:01:47 PM

I am not "preaching" against reviews...I am simply stating that one should not be disregarded because they don't have them.  Wanting, or not wanting  them is a personal choice that should be respected. I'm here trying to clarify some of the assumptions that have been presented.  To each his own...we all have a perspective and I am stating mine so please don't accuse me of doing anything other than that.

No one provider or hobbiest has all the answers and cannot speak for everyone. Several of my clients are on this board and although they visit with escorts, they sometimes seek other things. Yea, I include my site link on my posts because #1 it shows who I am and what I do and #2 it offers a clearer perspective that I try to convey on my posts.

You taking offense to my posts is certainly not my intention but you do have to accept that no one here has all the answers...maybe you do for yourself but not for everyone else and we should all have respect for different perspectives...it is after all a "discussion" board.

Also, I get clients through various sources and I choose to pay attention as well as offer a different perspective where I see many general assumptions are being made and since I happened to have a lot of experience on the topic of massage, sensual or otherwise, I will offer MY input.

even the damn mods flat out tell new guys to look for...wait for it, 'WELL REVIEWED LADIES.' You coming behind that very advice just because you don't have or want reviews, defeats the purpose of the board to begin with, but yes you are correct...you can offer your input all you want. Others can also point out the inconsistencies.


-- Modified on 12/18/2012 9:50:40 PM

This is what I mean by assumptions.  This gentleman assumes that if you get a massage from someone on BP body rubs you will get varied extras with a bad massage. This is SO NOT true. Again, everyone is different and if you lump people in these assumptions because of certain factors, you could be missing out on a wonderful experience.

Gotcha

Thank you for your open minded fairness

Also, you point out that 90% of the women here are escorts only (the other 10% must be ???) and I know for a fact that many ladies choose to not have reviews...yet they have a steady flow of TER members as clients which suggests many guys see my point.  In fact, I've had conversatioms with several guys, some are my clients that choose to not write reviews on anyone that they see, and realize that many reviews can't be fully trusted.  Not everyone is here for the same reasons and "no reviews"  whether choosing to not have them or write them is not an indication that someone is LE or up to no good!

I have the experience and knowledge to speak of something and having no reviews should not give anyone the right to make statements which suggest I have no validity.  As for including my site link on all my posts...absofreakinlutely!

Hmmm this is getting quite complicated.  I don't quite understand why you felt the need to share all of that point by point I info since it was irrelevant to any point that I tried to make. I was not specifically referring to you when I spoke of assumptioms. I have seen various general comments regarding massage. My only point was that people could be missing out on good things when they think inside the box too mich and/or assume that everyone is the same.  I get why reviews are important  to some but for professional reasons I do not feel as though they will be beneficial.  To each his own.

I'm not quite sure why some are getting so fired up about this. I am simply stating that it is best to approach each individial with an open mind rather than generalize but I can see one gets crucified for having an opinion that differs from those that frequent these boards.   Im afraid my words have either been poorly communicated or grossly misunderstood... Some have simply chosen to make a mountain out of a mole hill.  Unlike some, I'm not here to argue or be "right". I made some pretty simple statementa about how not having reviews does not make one a hazard! Plenty of men here have found great experiences with ladiea that have no reviews.  That's a simple fact so lets not over exaggerate.

Posted By: VegasMassage

First of all, you're talking about assuming and directing it towards me, when you have NO idea *my* business perspective or experiences. So your post is way off base solely because of YOUR assumptions, not mine.

Clearly my post struck a nerve so let's get some things straight. Because my post wasn't directed towards you & I sure as heck don't appreciate your response.

A) If you had taken a moment to look at my site, you would have seen where I am kindly asking for no new reviews. And I've only ran ONE ad, and it was on here, since the beginning of October, no new reviews since September. That's all that needs to be said about that.

B) I wasn't basing what someone offers or doesn't, based on where they advertise. I was just offering the OP *my* opinion, which is based on BP in a large city. And yes, reviewed ladies are the safest option, regardless of population, whether the reviews are here or on a regional, smaller board. Obviously the OP isn't tapped into word of mouth ladies or he wouldn't be risking it on BP.

C) Speaking of BP, let's get into yours vs. my experience there. You live in a small market, I do not. Your experiences are apples compared to Vegas' oranges. Now, when I was on tour in ND, I advertised on BP and met some lovely gents, who actually renewed my faith in men that partake. As Vegas attracts a different mentality. Hence the less than stellar responses under Body Rubs. Even when the ad made it clear that it wasn't a fluff n' buff.

D) Advertising on BP in a small vs. a large market, our Therapeutic section is full of ladies offering extras. It's a different mentality here and I have never received nor heard of any provider receiving nasty emails from LMTs. That's absurd & I would just laugh and carry on. Have you even looked at the Vegas BP for Body Rubs & Therapeutic? Maybe you should familiarize yourself with my market before assuming things. Marketing has everything to do with ad placement and where gives you the best ROI and least amount of headaches... lol. For *me*, that's in the Therapeutic section. To this day, I still have clients from BP 2+years ago and like any ad site, you have to weed through the requests. It happens here on TER too.

I agree with London as well in that you do contribute some useful information and have given you kudos in a post of mine. But inquiring minds want to know.... Just exactly why *are* you here if you're so anti-reviews yet add your website link to almost every post? Your actions contradict your words....

Now, what was that about assuming, you said?

LOL thank you for your candid honesty.  You did not offend me but your post just helped me toake the point that you can indeed have an amazing massage with incredible' not so common sensual aspects.  Unfortunately, the thread lost its way

Yes, I'm quite real, thanks!

Good Lord let's move on because clearly there is a continuous issue with finger pointing here.  I have no problem being challenged...no problem whatsoever but I don't have or want to be combative! I do, however see a pattern on these boards and understand that some like to reign. Have at it .   I've never insulted, disrespected or ripped into anyone and regardleas of your interpretations, I made a very simple point that did not have to turn into this shit storm.
People that are not LMT's should not be giving advice or making assumptions about their mind set because when they do
An actual LMT might point out a thing or two.  As for you personally, it seems as though you're attempting to make this a personal matter. Your last post states that no one has made assumptions...I suggest you go back and read all the posts! Several opinions were put out there as though they were fact ...that would be an assumption.  Questioning, with some degree of suspision, why I'm here and why I choose to not have reviews was a bit out of line but I suppose your condesending and passive-aggressive accusatory  tone is acceptable? Saying things like Bodyrun postiings are not real MT's, Or sensual massage is just HJ and fluff & buff massage, you can't trust a provider with no reviews, etc  all assumptions that I commented on.  I've done nothing but comment on the various posts regarding BP postings and therapeutic vs sensual massage offerings! Since I have a history with all three, it was appropriate for me to comment so lets not make this about anything more than that!!!  You do your thing your way and I'll do mine my way! Time to move on!

He is absolutely right!  Any straightforward MT (meaning NO extras of any kind) will have nothing to do with BP and if there are some advertising there, they sure don't appreciate sensual massage ads slipping through the therapeutic section.  Why play games!? If you are not offering strictly therapeutic, don't be deceptive just like like FS escorts should not be posting in bodyrubs while calling it massage!  Why cloud things with deception?!
Doing this mot only fruatrates the posters that actually belong under a certain category but it leaves guys scratching their heads or having to risk insulting someone with questions they may find offensive. I understand that discretion is necessary but a clear, honest approach is best
As I've said, and let's mot twist my words OR their intent, read ads carefully to understand what each provider is offering and don't assume things ie: body rub ads are topless, mediocre to bad massages with a typical " happy ending"  my main point in this thread was that no one should assume anything but should rather approach each provider as an individual because in not doing so, you could be missing out on something wonderful that perhaps you thought did not exist.

If you are a real, licensed, masssage therapist and not an escort, news flash....MOST of them do not use hooker boards as a platform, because they know how dangerous doing that can be for their career and to their clients if caught. I am not saying it can't happen, but one should assume that if a license number is in an ad, that the girl is legit and probably won't offer any sex type activities. Of course, there are exceptions, but keep in mind in places like Vegas certain things are legal that are not legal other places. The reason assumptions are made is because in MOST CASES, that is the way it is!!! You don't want reviews, yet you expect the entire world to know what it is you offer, then get mad when people make assumptions...well duh.


Why should we assume that? Because if a guy approaches an LMT who is not offering ANY sensual aspects, she can call the damn cops...that's why! Yes, it is confusing as hell, but who really has the time to go through all these hoops when he can simply check for reviews? Duh. You can bash review validity all you want honey, but if a gal has 2 or 3 years of CONSISTENT reviews, that's all that needs to be said.


I run an FBSM agency thanks, and NONE of my girls are LMT's and for  good reason. They nor I, want the added risk of having the damn massage board breathing down our necks. If I ran a legit massage service, they would sure as hell not be putting me at risk for a pandering charge by pretending not to be escorts, but others are independents so they can do what they want. So to sit here and tell me (someone who has ran an agency for YEARS) that most fbsm providers don't offer a happy ending is simply ABSURD! Most very well do, or they would be laughed off  a hooker board!

So, you can keep telling these guys all day long to trust women with no reviews, and we will keep telling them to pass along, because that is what keeps them safe. I am not accusing you personally of being LE, but tell me..how can you PROVE you're not? That is the question most newbies also are going to ask. Having a website, means nada...I can put one up in less than 2 days. As for LMTs not using Backpage....I beg to differ, and it is done all the time. For someone with no credibility on this site whatsoever, to claim she knows anything about the women here or how it works, is just asinine lol. You discredit reviews yet spam the board with your ADS in every post...priceless. And yes, they are ADS lol.

Yes, it is risky to use the massage section if you are offering extras, but many women like VM do it all the time and have REVIEWS to show what they offer. You have no record of what you offer, and you scream about assumptions lol. Well, who the heck knows who you are and WHAT you do? There is no RECORD of your so called services. I still have no idea what exactly it is you offer.







-- Modified on 12/19/2012 9:09:00 AM

Ah, here we go.  Read my site...the link is plastered everywhere, remember?! In doing so you will get an idea of what I do and don't do - you will also see I don't refer to myself as "babe" ...neither should you

So, according to you, being a Non FS sensual bodyworker is an "anomaly?" Imteresting.  Perhaps that is why you are so confused about what I do.   Being a legit massage practitioner is separate from what I offer here and being here does not make me an escort....just another assumption being made.

Are "your girls" escorts, offering FS while calling it massage? Either way, it's illegal...and knowing very well the inner workings of state regulations, I can assure you when using the word massage in the same sentence as sensual will indeed catch some unwanted attention.  

I personally know of LMT's that offered FBSM on the side and posted on BP and were approached by people claiming to be investigators from the state and had to disappear which is why I would like to be done with BP. Also, many BP users are opposed to the verification process while TER users unseratand its importance...hence my presence here.  It's really not that complicated!

I come here as a sensual bodyworker. Not as an escort pretending to offer massage. Why is this so perplexing?

This is the place to help newbies make an educated safe entry into this hobby of ours.  This debating back and forth on this forum, regardless of what topic, needs to STOP!!!!!  If you want to argue the merits of anything hobby related, use the GD board, not this one.  Unfortunately, I do not have the authority to delete posts any more, or I would have deep-sixed this whole thread, it's not helping anyone.  Somebody asks for some simple advice and it gets turned into a full-fledged debate for a whole lot of other stuff.

Let's remember what the purpose of the newbie board is and keep the integrity of it.  If you are not going to offer help to those that need it, then take it somewhere else.

Swim

Oh boy..the redundancy and circular motion of your words is mind boggling.  Spam?  There is a field to add a site link present at the end of each post is there not? I post as an unfamiliar presence so I
I thought it to be logical to include some info about myself.  You take issue with that too? You come across as wanting to "help keep the newbies safe" but this seems like more of a personal attack to me.

Your point has been lost and you are simply trying to be the jury and the judge and are bothered buly the fact that I don't buy it.  I made a simple point and was attacked for it by you but I see you do that to people frequently.

As for my "credibility" as I've said I have clients here that are keeping quiet because they don't want to get caught up in this nonsense. I did, however have a gentleman, with reviews leave a positive comment under one of my NE ad posts.

No, my girls do not offer fs....they offer fbsm, which as you said is not the same thing as 'massage' and I would never use that word in an ad....call me versed in the LAW. I never tried to dispute your points about the differences in services, but only your constant "You're missing out if you only see women with reviews" bs. For the last time...this is A REVIEW BOARD, so if guys wanted to see women without reviews, they would not be here asking all these questions. I called you on your BULLSHIT, and nothing more so enough with the victim mentality here. You want to post here and tell guys not to worry about reviews, and the majority of people will say you're crazy. Have a good day.

-- Modified on 12/19/2012 9:40:45 AM

London what should I do in the following example.

I am linking to a girl that I am attracted to and would love to see. Her name is Cheri (green wall with short black hair).

-Cheri is in the therapeutic section of Backpage only (no Body Rub section ads).
-Cheri has no reviews here or anywhere else for that matter.
-Cheri works at a parlor that is known for their girls going up to L2.
-The girls that go up to L2 advertise in both the therapeutic section and the body rub section.
-Again, Cheri is not in the Body Rub section. Only the therapeutic section.
-Texting her gets immediate denial of any extras offered (but so does texting other ones that do offer extras).

So Cheri has both points for and against when it comes to deciphering if she offers extras. She works in a parlor that has girls that are known for a fact to offer extras (+1), but she is the only one that doesnt also advertise in the body rub section (-1).

I just cant figure this girl out. And this is why those that offer extras need to stay the heck out of therapeutic, or those that dont offer extras need to stay the heck off of backpage. One has to give. This is nonsense!

so he won't have to ASK personal questions about what is offered. Seems simple enough to me, and that is what I have said from the beginning. No hobbyist should have to 'guess' at what someone offers, and I can put anything I want on my website, but if my reviews don't back it up, it's rather useless.

Do you REALLY want to take all that time wondering and guessing what some girl offers, when there are THOUSANDS of reviewed providers available? Somehow, I doubt it. If you ask about extras, it's a red flag to most level headed professionals, which is why we link to our OMG REVIEWS. I would pass.....

Too many PROVEN legit providers around to jump through hoops.

-- Modified on 12/19/2012 9:49:10 AM

So I guess all of my clients, many of which frequent TER are crazy!

My apologies as well for my part im this exhausting thread.  

London, I am well aware of the fact that this is a review board and that people come here for what is hoped to be useful information.  My point is this..not everyone will stay away from ladies with no reviews.  I have been busy with clients for quite sometime now without reviews.  Some took a chance and are glad they did.  Everyone approaches this im their own way so let's just leave it at that.

Just a quick question for you.  I would imagine you have a lot of repeat customers, right?  Main question is do you get a lot of referrals by word of mouth vs. what you would pick up via review board or website/ social media?

Without reviews to say what she offers, you will just have to go in blind and ASSume. I can't help where you live or what you have to choose from, but I can tell you that asking us what she might offer, is simply a moot issue. We can't possibly give you a 100 percent correct answer. It's all guesswork without reviews. If you are this dead set on seeing her, you will just have to take whatever outcome you get. If she flat out says L1 and L2 on her ads or site, that suggests she does offer a happy ending, but that does not mean YOU will get it lol. See what I mean...no way to tell for sure.

-- Modified on 12/19/2012 11:15:51 AM

I will continue to make such recommendations.  I do understand that many ladies do not want reviews for various reasons, and that is their prerogative.  However, for myself, as I have also stated, I will only see someone with no reviews if a trusted hobby buddy or provider I know well recommends them to me.

Swim

Most of the massages by sensual bodyrub girls are lousy massages.  I've done this for 20+ years, on both coasts.  I have more than a little experience (check my reviews if you need to see who I have seen--and, yes, you can search aliases for reviews).  The good massages by FBSM providers are the exceptions, not the rule.

Do your due diligence by asking questions and doing your research.

You can ask, but you have to do it in certain ways.  Typically the way I do this is to call the number and then ask for information:

"Hi, my name is _____.  I'm calling about your ad in BP.  Can I get more information about rates, sessions, and availability?"

"Great.  I've had sensual bodyrubs before.  I know this is defined differently by different girls.  Do you mind if I ask if you do it topless or nude?"

"Thanks for your response.  I know it probably varies on your level of comfort with the client, but do you allow mutual touching during the session?"

And that's where I leave it.  Anything beyond that is best discussed in session.  Or read a review or two on TER to see if she allows something.  Better yet, PM the reviewers in the review section.

If they are advertising in the therapeutic section, then start off by asking this question after the first one:

"I know you are advertising in the therapeutic section.  Is your massage strictly therapeutic?"

Or ask, "Do you mind if I ask if draping is required?"

That should give you some info.