So I had set up a session with a well reviewed provider.  Two days prior to arriving at my place she and I had been texting back and forth, just getting to know each other's likes/dislikes.  I even told her that I'd love to take her out to dinner after/before the session, and she was nice enough to not charge me for the dinner time.  So she shows up looking extremely hot and svelte.  In my mind I had planned on grabbing dinner first, but I think she wanted to get the session over with.  The first thing she asked me was the donation.  I was a little put off by this.  She knew that I am a TER member, and that I had written several good reviews for women, and that I was whitelisted.  I have been robbed three times by providers, albeit unreviewed ones, who wanted the donation upfront.  My involuntary mental reaction was to tell her that I will be more than happy to give her the donation after the session, or that I would leave it on the coffee table, which she could take afterward.  She got mad, yelled at me, and left in a big huff, and slammed the door to my apartment so hard that the place shook.  

I was nice and kind enough to text her, and explain to her my reason for wanting her to take the donation after the session.  I even apologized and told her that she could come back, and I would give her the donation first.  In our back and forth over text, she kept rehashing how I had insulted her (can't see how), oh and get this, how I had confronted her which according to her, scared her.  NUTS!!!  I tell you.  I ended the night calling my regular whom I had seen in a month, and we spend two hours together, drinking wine, listening to music, and enjoying each other's company.  And she has never eve asked me for a donation upfront.  

Haven't providers been with enough men to get a sense that a certain kind of man isn't going to screw them out of their money?  Especially someone who is active on the discussion boards and has several good references?  Alright ladies and gents.  I want your thoughts on this.

The polite thing to do, especially with someone you have never seen, is to leave the envelope in plain sight.  It's up to the lady if she wants to take it before the session or after.  Escorting is a cash up front business--a little bit like gambling.

Sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you're not.  There are even times when you hit the big jackpot.

The first thing that comes to me is that on just about every provider site I have visited, they ask (for incalls) to have the donation placed in plain view, up front.

You had never seen this woman before. She was coming to an unknown (to her) location. I don't think it was out of line for her to ask, since she was not in her element.

By your own admission, you had been ripped off by non-reviewed providers, not well established ones. You say she is a well reviewed provider. Why could not you have given her the same trust you were expecting from her?

As far as her being scared, this is a risky business for everyone, with the providers being at the more vulnerable end usually because of the size and strength issue. It can be hard for men to understand exactly what might make a woman feel threatened.

As it was said, if she's reputable, and you are reputable, that should equal trust.  That is what your research is for.  I also find it funny how guys are willing to put their dicks into an unknown girls mouth, etc., and the girls allow, you know, into other places, but you don't trust her to provide the service if you pay up front?  

Personally, even with new girls, I have paid more often after the session then before, but have also had a new professional I saw ask up front and nothing wrong with that.  I've even had somone forget to ask and I almos forgot to gave till the door closed and I knocked to let her know

But over all, I think paying first certainly will remove one issue that allow the fun to go uninhibited.

You have to remember this that your not dealing with rocket scientists here in this buisness. There are providers that have brains and beauty that are intelligent,educated and have common sense but most do not . If this was a regular girl you met thru a friend  that you took out on a date and you tried to get in her pants and she left pissed off at you then you might have some issues . Your dealing with escorts
Expect the unexpected . No disrespect to all of the providers that do have common sense and brains ,just the few that dont.

Most established girls do request to get the business out of the way first.  I have many times almost forgotten the envelope on my way out.

If you both screened one another, I think that because she took the first leap by coming to your place then you should have taken the 2nd.

As far as offending/scaring away, it doesn't take much on a first date to scare a petite woman away when she is about to get naked in your place of residence, any kind of disagreement will suffice.
I would have left too and I would not have returned, at that point it's my way or no way.
It is my job to be who I advertised myself as when I arrive then it's up to you to assure me that you aren't an axe murderer or woman hater.
Fortunately I haven't had a bad experience but I know several girls who have later opened envelopes only to find pieces of paper and had no idea who which envelope came from to blacklist the guy.

You had some bad experiences but you cannot hold that against every woman you meet, you now know how to find reputable girls, trust them a little until they give reason not to.

BB

Since the ROBs always ask for the money first, it's understandable that you might associate that with becoming a cash-and-dash victim.  Unfortunately, it's also appropriate for a legitimate provider to want the cash up front too.

They've invariably also been taken advantage of at some point, and since you can't un-fuck someone, they have no choice but to request the money up front.  You'd better get used to this because the only women you'll see that might let you slide on that are ladies you've seen three or four times.  But even then, there's no reason to play games.  Just do what's expected of you and place the envelope in a visible location and everyone will be happier.

And BTW, be careful what you talk about in those text messages with a new provider.  You never know who you're actually texting and you're leaving an evidence trail if it's the wrong person.  Cell phones are the first thing that gets confiscated if someone gets busted.  And while I'm sure lady LE loves to hear about your likes and dislikes, she's far more interested in arresting you and fucking you in her own special way.

She isn't petite.  With heels on, she is about 5' 11".  But I see your point about disagreement scaring someone away.  Neither my posture, nor my tone was threatening in any way.
As always, thank you for your advice BB.  In retrospect, I should have trusted her.  Maybe she will change her mind in the coming weeks.  

And yes she had screened me.  I am very screenable, transparent really.  

It's 'you're' not dealing with rocket scientists, not 'your'.- Just another hooker

It didn't have anything to do with brains, in fact a smart girl gets paid first or she takes the risk of not getting paid at all but this sounds like two nervous people on a first date. Nothing more, nothing less.

That's a friendly jab, btw, I couldn't help myself, the context was too perfect!!    I am always telling people, "hey, I'm not a rocket scientist"  so please don't take me seriously....don't ever take me seriously, in fact

BB

hehe

Doesn't matter if it's incall or outcall.  On an incall date, I usually go to the bathroom to freshen up, it gives the escort a chance to open the envelop if she wishes. Nine times out of ten, the envelop has  neverbeen  touched, when I return from the bathroom.

I got no problem with the guy paying the girl up front especially since he was going out for dinner with her .I got a problem with her going Psycho on  him just asking the question if he could pay later.All she had to do was answer him The first time I see a client I like to get payed first . Its sounds to me that the girl went AWOL on him for just asking a question.  If she would have just explained her stance  I Think the guy would have been fine with that but you would have to ask him . Thats just my rocket scientist explanation lol

Re: It's 'you're' not dealing with rocket scientists, not 'your'.- Just another hooker

Hey, I'm starting to like you!  I know a bunch of rocket scientist that are amongst the dumbest people I know!

Posted By: Brennan_Blake

It didn't have anything to do with brains, in fact a smart girl gets paid first or she takes the risk of not getting paid at all but this sounds like two nervous people on a first date. Nothing more, nothing less.

That's a friendly jab, btw, I couldn't help myself, the context was too perfect!!    I am always telling people, "hey, I'm not a rocket scientist"  so please don't take me seriously....don't ever take me seriously, in fact

BB

If I only had the time.

DD

In the K-girl scene it is almost the norm to give the donation on the way-out , sometimes both tend to forget it was  service and only remember at the door. Have even left without leaving a donation on an occasion or two.

Some new arrivals would at times ask for the donation up front at the first meeting , and I have no problem with Thant , because anything that makes the lady  relax or gives her peace of mind would mean a better session.

As the wise minds have already stated the right for you to get business out of the way if it was the providers wish. We all make mistakes and as long as we don't repeat them there is no shame in that. Chalk it up to inexperience .

BTW don't assume a TER handles , half a dozen reviews and WL works with all providers. I know it does not fly with most of the bookers whose girls I patronize.

Good luck in your future endeavors.    

when they dial your Google Voice number (I have one too), I think they can make the connection.  

The woman you described may have been a rip-off, there's no way of knowing.  But I'm just saying, if you think that honest girls are going to let you pay after the deed is done on a first visit, you're going to be very disappointed in the responses you get.

There's always going to be a certain level of distrust on both sides during first meetings.  But saying you want to pay after the fact is only going to increase it.

I have a Google Voice number.  It can't be traced to a cell phone.  But thanks for the heads-up.

I recall you recently had a problem with another provider, that freaked-out and cancelled on you.
Now this.  
Quite frankly, perhaps your demeanor and  /or delivery, needs a little fine tuning.  
As far a a "Well reviewed Provider" requesting the donation, up-front....  So What??   You may have a few reviews under your belt (all submitted in August) and 2 white listings, but that does not make you "Special".  You don't own a provider...  It's her call...Deal with it...  
Why would you object to giving a well reviewed provider the donation up-front???  In my opinion, you were out of line.  Considering your other cancellation, perhaps a little self-evaluation is in order..

By reading all of your thoughts, I am gathering that essentially hobbyists basically have no power or say in the matter.  A provider shows up, you hand her the money, end of story, regardless of whether she screws you over or not.  It's a risk that one has to take.  But a well reviewed provider won't screw you over because she's worried about her reputation etc.  And if she does screw you over, whose word are you going to take, the provider's or the hobbyist's?  Just as I could write a bad review detailing honestly how she screwed me over, she could just as well blacklist me.  Will the other hobbyists believe the hobbit, oh wait I mean hobbyist or the provider, and will the providers believe the provider's story or the hobbyist's?  Blah blah . . . ad infinitum.

No it doesn't make me "special", just as two dozen reviews for a provider doesn't make her "special."  What I find amazing in all of this discussion is that there's no talk about her haughty/rude attitude.  I did NOT do anything crazy to have the door slammed in my face till my apartment shook, alright?  
And yes I admit that I should have given her the donation upfront.  Once you get robbed three times, perhaps you will understand why I reacted the way I did.  It was a defense mechanism.  
And the other provider that you are speaking of was bickering with me on rating numbers.  I don't consider that a "problem."  

The moment I uttered the words, "I don't usually give the money upfront.", she left in a huff and puff, and slammed the door in my face.

I am sorry if you do think she was rude , it is understandable. Put your self in her position , to see you she set valuable time aside ( which she could used productively elsewhere) , she made up , and dressed up for you and travelled you your apartment ,only to have you slam  donation handling norms and best  practices in her face. Under these circumstance being rude is is a very mild response.

You act as if you are the only person to suffer the indignation and humiliation of being robbed.aawae have all been through it to some gegree or another , learn to see reviewed providers , contact the reviewers and ask them if there is anything they could share with with you beyond what they wrote in their review.

I think in your position I would have compensated her for the time she wasted preparing and coming to your place.
you need a change in attitude if you rally wish to wish to be seen by credible providers.

If she is a reviewed provider, she will not be a B&S, however, if you are talking about a newbie it is a gamble you have to take.  It is after all the nature of the business, you have to show trust to gain trust.  Unfortunately, most B&S victims (myself included) gets into the same situation, you lost your money.

I've read a number of the posts below.  You seem to be very defensive and more interested in proving your point.  Maybe this is why you have had a few problems.  And, yes, I've had a couple of bad experiences as well....  I've factored those in as cost of doing business.  Just like a first date may not work out, these engagements may not either.

I won't put myself in her situation.  Yes she drove, yes she took the time, and perhaps she incurred a loss.  IT is part of her job, alright?  People make an investment in business.  Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't.  In time that she drove to my place, and went on with her shenanigans, she wasted my time, hence my money.  My time is just as important as hers.  It's a business.  I am the customer/client.  I am not here to make her happy/satisfied.  I am buying her services/time.  End of story.  

In the time that I wrote this, I have had at least three credible providers asking me to to buy their services.  

Getting defensive?  And with an attitude like the quote below, you might want to think of taking up another hobby. You know there is a PO board and the ladies do talk amongst each other. Everyone has tried to give you advice and you really don't seem to want to listen.


"It's a business.  I am the customer/client.  I am not here to make her happy/satisfied.  I am buying her services/time.  End of story."  

She stormed out, slammed the door, but you text her and asked her to come back and were now willing to pay up front, which is the way it's supposed to be done (and which is why you go with a lady with a track record).  Sounds to me like you know you screwed up.  You're probably more pissed that she didn't come back than any thing else.  But all was not lost, at least you later spent two hours with your regular - "enjoying each others company."  Was that after you made it clear to her that she was there to please you?

Look, Z, there is much truth to what you say.  You were reacting out of concern that you might be robbed again, and got skittish.  We all understand that.  But there is A LOT of truth in what the many seasoned hobbyists are saying, too, and you don't seem willing to hear them.  Yes, you had been robbed, but the gal who left did not rob you.  In effect, you made your phobia her dilemma, and when she did not kowtow to your POV, you got pissed....

Now, you can take it or leave it, but there is a lot of good advice on this thread, and I would urge you to follow it.  We have all been robbed or scammed or ripped.  Sometimes it is loss of time with a flake, sometimes loss of money with a rob, but as long as there is no physical injury, all you lose is time or money...and you learn a valuable lesson, which is to be cautious.  But you can also learn a valuable lesson from this experience, or not.  Your call.  RT

I do it see it from both points.  Did I not admit to my mistake openly?  Nope I did not get pissed.  I was a tad disappointed, but not pissed.  Pissing off takes too much mental energy.  What makes you think I am not willing to hear?  I am just having a discussion, an objective one.

For the umpteenth time, I wasn't pissed that she left.  I was disappointed.  There's conventional wisdom in how the business end of the transaction ought to be handled.  There's no rule.  
Yes all was not lost.  Save your sarcasm.  And yes, we did enjoy each other's company.  I didn't have to clear anything with her.  And in reference to my earlier post, I did mention that a provider is there to please me, but if it happens that I end up pleasing her as well, then so much the better.    

Donation in sight upon arrival.  Once you get the trust factor then you can give the donation at the end.  I always gave it up front.  Standard rule though is UPON ARRIVAL.
6 reviews and white listing is nothing in some ladies eyes.  When I had 20 reviews I had a provider still want my real first and last name.  Since I won't give it out I moved on.

She was letting you take her out to dinner prior at no charge?  You could at least gave her the donation up front.  Yeah you've been ripped off a couple of times, ever stop to think how many times she's been shorted or envelope stuffed with newspaper?

Just use this  as learning experience and move on.

R.O.E.- RULES OF ENGAGEMENT

Tried to send you a PM but it bounces back because you've clicked the ignore buttion. So I guess you're not really interested in having a discussion.

I think you misapprehend the purpose of this board.  It seems like you are trying to win an argument.  But nobody is interested in arbitrating disputes here.  We have these discussions in large part to help one another attain a common goal: the best experience with the least static.  A good number of of experienced hobbyists has advised you of ways to attain that goal.  Your position seems to be that the world shouldn't be that way.  Fine, maybe it shouldn't.  But it is.  So you can keep arguing and keep guaranteeing yourself disappointment, or you can listen, adjust your behavior, and have a lot more fun.