GFE plus is sold as MSOG, however I've gotten bbfs at the same price after multiple meetings and showing a recent test. Can't explode inside the cover and pull out when going bare.
Local agency put up their rate structure. Just comparing and contrasting with West Coast/New York. I don't think GFE+ gets you really anything extra. I pay it, though, figure its tip included and keeps me on the good side of the agency.
What do you all pay and what length of session do you normally take?
GFE. GFE PLUS
45MIN 220 260
1HR 260 300
90MIN 400 450
2HR 500 550
If you don't get anything extra why have two rate structures. lol. I'm assuming gfe plus is msog or something?
I find interesting there's a discount on 2hr sessions. In the bay we don't have that.
The other thing is our doubles usually cost more than just 2x,altho it varies by org. I know elsewhere it's just double, and in something like corgs sometimes you even get a discount on doubles.
Prior to the recent rate rising the bay had a simple rate scale
220 hr
180 hhr
With a couple of girls charging 240 or 250.
2 hr was 440 and doubles ranged anywhere from 440 to 600
I could be mistaken, but I think GFE Plus just gives you CIM as MSOG should be available with the GFE rate.
GFE+ gets you CIM and, if the girl rims, rimming.
only part of GFE+ in DMV. The plus was always for CIM.
Apart from certain NYC aamps, I feel like rim is always a ymmv thing. Some orgs advertise it but girl is never obligated to do it. At least imo.
IMO rim has gotten less common over the years in the bay. I attributed that to a lowered demand and an influx of new mongers.
Top girls are still offering it. Our service queens still offer. I remain just as interested in the service as I've always been, may partake if I like the girl. A girl's service will always come off as better if it's on the menu, especially for regulars.
-- Modified on 1/25/2021 10:50:55 PM
You mean as in newer girls?
Yeah, true. I've attributed this to demand of something like bbfs VS rim. I've voiced my concerns as a person who's really into service, that a lot of newer girls, at least in the bay, think they can just offer bbfs and not hone their skills. And tbh - they're probably right because us guys who are into old PSE aren't the majority,and majority loves BB almost no matter what.
Rim was already ymmv. GFEI and to less degree Alpaca advertise their rimmers. But GFEI is almost always older girls. Once they retire, not sure whos going to take their place.
My opinion on rim is that it was always YMMV, but the best girls were always offering it. I'm very selective in the type of women I like and if I find the girl to be good looking, and rim is on the menu on top of that, it's a huge plus. It shows she has a commitment to service for one thing, which is another aspect to being a top girl.
Many great sessions which I have been a part of have incorporated rim in some manner. Some are better at it than others and some are very good at it. My $.02.
A commitment to offering a broader range of menu items is never a bad thing in this hobby, and always reflects well on the girl, but the level of services provided is another factor that is considered. But that is the great thing about seeing k girls is that services are typically performed at a high level, something we can all be thankful for.
Maybe it’s conditionally GFE+? As in don’t expect rimming if you’re not paying the GFE+ rate? Last time I saw Lynn, GFE+ wasn’t available. I asked her what that meant, she told me no CIM or rimming. YMMV.
I almost never paid + rates but it was almost always offered. So, no, you don't need to pay + for rimming but as suggested not every K-Girl will perform it. I think those that don't are actually the exceptions (though also suspect just about all of them are happy when its declined).
I just threw the rest of what a was eating in the waste basket. LOL
Those rates are the same as I was paying back when I was active (2015 - 2017) here in NOVA. I was "in" with three K-agencies and a Thai group. Had about 40 dates over that time, give or take. I never asked outright, but based on discussions and reviews it seemed that "plus" got you CIM. That's something I look for, and so I always opted for a "plus" date. And, like the OP, I don't mind the extra $40 for the session. Sortof like a tip, if nothing else.
Can't comment on MSOG. It was always available to me (maybe b/c I paid for "plus"?) and some of the girls really tried to pull it out of me--but not an issue b/c I know a 60 or even 90-minute date, I'm only getting there the one time. I'm content to have a nicely-paced one-shot date.
I'm seriously considering getting back in the game, but all my agencies went kaput or changed hands or something. I'd like to think I could get re-verified with a new group easily, but haven't tried.
GFE plus is sold as MSOG, however I've gotten bbfs at the same price after multiple meetings and showing a recent test. Can't explode inside the cover and pull out when going bare.
Interesting how they have GFE Plus as an option, we do not have something akin to that in the bay. Most of the reputable orgs and girls offer MSOG nowadays, and we are fortunate that is an option.
Most of the girls have found there's much more in it for them to have GFE / GFE Plus services on their menu by default, so we are lucky to have that as well. Hope DC folks are getting a similarly good experience over there.
-- Modified on 1/25/2021 7:02:45 PM
At this particular agency, + is most likely CIM.
At other agencies, depending on the woman, it could be that or multiple shots or both.
That last subtlety is a change over the last couple of years.
I've been told that Plus gets you CIM and a better experience. I've found it doesn't matter and it is very inconsistent. Rimming hasn't been a plus service as I've gotten it in the past w/o paying extra. Only one time had I felt the experience was better with plus. What I have found in my experience is that K-girls prefer CIM because then they don't have to fuck you.
A couple years ago the bookers were pushing plus and I just said yes. Figured it wasn't much more than regular plus tipping. A few recent visits I was rushed out the door. So, thinking 45 minutes and pay for what is basically an AMP experience. That and I forgot what the rates were at and didn't want to ask because of LEO and etiquette expectations - didn't want to endanger my membership to K-Agencies. People seem to get banned for sneezing in the wrong direction and very difficult to get back-in once banned.
I'm a little bit confused on what cim has to do with less fucking. I fuck my kgirls thoroughly and then cim once or twice, depending on number of nuts and where I dispose of them.
As far as the latter part of your post.
I've been doing some research of DC agencies (Jensen must be thrilled) after talking to a couple of mongers from there. What I've found is that the tactics are the same as here. Only your agencies are considered hard to get in, so people keep more quiet publicly, especially if their personas are known on forums. And they're more afraid of losing that membership. It's the same ol story. Orgs impose fear tactics.
I've been told agencies BL for little reason, and even if you're high volume vip type monger right now, they'd send you an annoyed text bitching if you gave a non-glowing review, citing bad times. Even though many mongers from there agree the product is the worst it's ever been.
I imagine if you're a non-high volume monger or a non-vouched monger, you are probably banned right away if they know who you are.
His point was largely about the older crowd who are going to be one-shot guys. If they CIM they are not up for fucking afterwords. So if that is the case and the woman can get the guy to pop with a BJ before then, fucking generally won't occur.
How many guys go that path I don't know -- one guy on TER did say as he got older he found CIM preferable to intercourse so....
As for you off topics. If you've not been in this area then at best your just offering up hearsay/gossip more than research. But don't let that stop you. We all know that is your only outlet now since you have not been seeing anyone since last March (so you claim).
I will say this. If you're going to try basing your "conclusions" on what the case is during the COVID period then you don't have a rounded picture of this market. 10 years back, 5 years back, 3 years back 2 years back the quality of the K-girls and the representation of them in the agency ads was a lot better. Even today you can get very accurate ad pics -- but now there is more photoshopping and more older, overweight K-girls. But to suggest this is the norm and how things will be when things return to "normal" as you do is highly questionable.
-- Modified on 1/26/2021 11:39:51 PM
But how is cim different than any other type of finish? If you are only one pop, how does it make a difference where you pop? Or is it because people like cim, they will let bbbj to continue until finish? Unclear lol.
Eh either way I can't remember the last time I popped from a warm-up bj. Probably more than a decade ago. So I guess I just can't relate.
Research doesn't require actually being there, that's the beauty of research in the 21st century, Jensen. All it requires is finding reliable sources of information. You or someone else in DC getting info from another monger who sees the girls, is the same thing as me getting this info from an equivalent monger.
And in this case, it was Guarddog (220 reviews just off this username) who said this, not me:
"didn't want to ask because of LEO and etiquette expectations - didn't want to endanger my membership to K-Agencies. People seem to get banned for sneezing in the wrong direction and very difficult to get back-in once banned."
Is this really a covid phenomena? My sources tell me same shit with banning have been happening at other orgs before. Happened to butterfly legend too, and that org died before covid was even a thing.
You can call it gossip or whatever you want. And I thought we already agreed that bullying of mongers for writing honest reviews is scumbag behavior?
The response was, oh its a bay problem. Nah its a multi-city problem. Some people in the bay just have balls to voice it.
First point -- the comment about K-girls perhaps preferring CIM so they don't have to fuck clearly had nothing to do with your or any of the customers perspective.
Second point -- GD is a good guy but I think in this case two things are going on. First I think he is heavily weighting his last experience which I think he might have been over reacting to given the overall level or quality (and variety of available girls) has been significantly lower for 2020 than all the previous years. There is more to the story, particularly relating to subject of black listing, but I am pretty sure it was all PM related so I will not mention more.
I will say that no one really knows what drives the decision to BL someone from one of the agencies here -- just like often it is a mystery why one person gets in with their first contact while the next guy spends a year or two getting in, or just gives up. Yes, they will BL people but it's not vindictive and retaliatory as you're claiming (maybe the BA is but...).
If you're saying that you take one observation for which you don't even have complete information about and claim that is research, well . . . there really isn't much to be said.
Not weighing in on your discussion, but I will point out that Rocket said he got his info from monger(s), not just from Guarddog.
First point, I was just unclear how cim finish as opposed to noncim finish entices girls to fuck less. Im still unclear. If you finish on the boobs it's still the same pop. I didn't mean any apprehension there at all. I was trying to grasp the logic there and failed 
Unlike some others, I don't really care what drove someone to say certain things. The important thing is that they said it. Guarddogs comment is definitely not a part of my research, it was just conveniently here, so I wouldn't have to defend my credibility... because you have attacked it (my credibility) in the past. I was doing research on my own, and have some info coming way from a DC monger. He wasn't exactly happy that the org texted him bitching about his not-so-glowy reviews,and reminded him that it's tough times. This infuriated me and made me research even more. Research is not complete, but so far DC orgs seem similar just have more secret/elite society feel. And hence people even more hesitant to go against them,because they lose that year or so they were trying to get in.
Anyway. Sorry for interjecting here. I thought that one of you DC stalwarts being frustrated with orgs was a good depiction of situation. Somehow I doubt that common BL was not an issue before covid. Like I've said, defunct agencies loved to use it too, from my research.
Anyway, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. I appreciate your responses.
The CIM comment is because if you're a one pop guy, as Jensen noted, its easier for the girl. Just like women don't like guys taking the blue pill. Despite all the fantasy letter reviews of she loved me fucking her and my big dick and licking her pussy, you've got some guy banging away on top of you with a hard as rock pole stabbing at you for 20 minutes straight, hard on her body. I've also had conversations with a number of women (not providers), that say it sucks having a guy slamming away like that for 20 plus minutes. If civvie women are bitching about the blue pill or guys who can't cum, imagine if you're doing it 3-5 times a day as part of your job. Yeah, there are some women who like it, but they are also not fucking three to five times a day, either.
Its also sometimes listed in provider ads, no blue pills. Its more work and harder on their bodies.
Also note, a trick of the trade, chit-chat after popping. While it is nice to talk after popping, but do you think she really cares about where you work, what you're doing afterwards, did you have lunch? What foods do you like? You think they really like you that much and care? The underlying theme is that they don't have to do more work.
Which would you rather do if you were a provider? Give a guy a hand job, then talk for 45 minutes or try to get a guy off twice, five different positions, and lick his ass for 60 minutes straight?
I don't think the East Coast is "elitist", just more cautious. There are a lot of back channel groups for reasons mentioned above. Also, I'm all about TOFTT, but as of late (during Covid) I've had several bad experiences; fat, ugly, pig face, sweaty back (nasty and gross from a fat pig provider), and the list goes on. This would happen once in a blue moon before COVID, but is now a regular occurrence. I will say the past few weeks has shown an uptick in quality of providers. A review of Vicki at bookalatina will be posted soon. I had a bad enough experience that it was on my DNS (do not see) list. But glowing reviews made me roll the dice, and it was great.
Several mongers in the DMV have been unceremoniously dropped from agencies-who knows why, but until we know for sure we're cautious and going to be a careful bunch. Many belong to some, but not all agencies. I personally think its a firewall in case one goes down, they don't all go down. I've been fortunate, that I have no problem getting into a new agency. Again, I don't know why, but maybe its because I "overpay" the GFE+ rate, and work hard at being a good customer. But getting into that first agency was a HUGE hurdle and took years. Thus, I am cautious. If you're a Seinfeld fan, its kind of like the Soup Nazi. We don't want to anything wrong that would be a "No soup for YOU!". LOL
Thanks for the response !
I still dont get the cim part, as since you get a bbbj either way, the only difference is where you finish. But I won't dwell on it lol
I LOVE Seinfeld lol. I even used the Soup N*zi analogy here when explaining to GaG why mongers still go to kgirl agencies even if they treat customers in a shitty way.
Your point about getting into first agency is my point as well. It's difficult to get in, so communication about less-than-stellar (and possibly good) experiences is done via backchannels and aliases. The harder an org is to get in, the more people are afraid of losing the privilege. Ie the more exclusive a membership, the more valuable it appears and less incentive for "biting the hand". Thankfully in the bay we don't have this.
The point about research is you have not way to actually verify the secondhand info. As with reviews, you have a claim made. You need to test if it's accurate/true or not. This is no different than reviews. If you never actually perform a direct observation all you have is an untested hypothesis and your unproven theory. That is not really research to me.
The research, in the review context, comes when you see the same girl and are comparing your experience against the review someone else reported.
The main point is that what is happening here that you see as how things are in BA is much different than it was before COVID, and even more so prior to the FOSTA/SESTA impact. Yes, sometimes one bad agency would crop up but those never seemed to last. Sometimes a touring girl would show up at one of the agencies and the ad and pics are a far cry from the reality. But those were more the exception than the rule here. It seems from what you say that is the rule in BA rather than the exception.
I just don't really see why COVID would then push things in the direction of some general shift to abusive agencies that don't care at all about its customers and only interested in the lowest common denominator and a mass market sales environment, meaning no concern about repeats to speak off and only interested in getting the new person in the door one time. That model just is not consistent with a high entry hurdle.
While I don't think the data would be available, what I think would be a really interesting research effort would be to compare client base between the BA and DMV agencies. My hypothesis would be, given your statements about there and my experience here, BA relies much more on customer churn while DMV relies more on repeat customers. I would also speculate that one factor driving that is that BA has many more local providers that stay their so might not get as much repeats where as here it's very much a new girl every week (or was!) situation.
I don't see this as an argument or fight but just about being more accurate in the depiction and interpretation.
Research is merely an act of gathering info. All one needs is at least one fairly trusted source and a good head on the shoulders. The rise of internet means diminished to little need to do legwork. When I get info from monger, I can either trust it or not trust it. I choose to do the former, usually.
For example, right now Stella @AG aka Katy is a well-known commodity on the east coast, Ive seen her on EPM site before too. She has been at Alpaca's here for a while : http://www.theeroticreview.com/reviews/delphinium-6287776959-350744
Not great reviews at all. And not many, considering she did stay here for a bit.
It sounds somewhat similar to the bay in DC then. From what I have detected, they have less girls and orgs overall in DC. But I have heard of people getting bl'd in the bay for leaving reviews that the org didn't take kindly to, though I'm not sure how common that is nowadays.
IMO, we have about 2-3 orgs that are difficult to get into in the bay. The rest I would say are fairly easy to get into. It's much easier to get in with K agencies in the bay vs the LA agencies, so I would wonder where some of the DC orgs rank in there in terms of difficulty of getting into the org.
That's why (if I do leave a review), I like to mainly keep it to good experiences I've had because I don't want to give any of the orgs a harder time than they need to have. I usually have a great experience with k girls anyway, a reason I've stuck with them for as long as I have.
You don't hear about the DC k girl scene that often (or as often as the west coast scene), so I think it's great we have some dc mongers here, and that threads are even being posted. It's beneficial for us mongers from one part of the country to read about the scene in another part, helps us compare and contrast and better understand our own scene.
-- Modified on 1/26/2021 5:31:51 PM
Do LA agencies require references and PII? Because that's what you need for NoVA agencies (there aren't any agencies in DC lol).
The top orgs in LA have an extensive screening process involving work verification, ID verification, and possibly other types of verification.
I was able to get in down there in one of the entry level orgs via a minor screening process, and those references are good at other orgs, but the top orgs implement an extensive screening process.
Typically that isn’t required in the bay, for whatever reason. In the bay a reference check of a few verifiable references is (usually) all you’ll need to get into an org. I always saw that as an upside to the bay area’s k girl scene vs the more difficult screening in SoCal.
I find the K11 network to be the best. Just kidding.
What I mean is that, once you know girls who tour to areas where you are traveling, it’s not that hard to get that girl to be your reference. That said, I haven’t tried it on the east coast. But it works just fine for getting into LA.
Well, while she was still working on the east coast, I’m pretty sure I could have done it through Phoebe. But it looks like she’s retired now.
CDL has used the K11 network more than me. You can find several of his posts on the topic or ask him directly.
Worth noting the k11 way does not work with certain agencies. For example, confirmed by multiple mongers that LSC won't let you in without an ID and paystub, period. No kgirl reference/vouch will get you in.
You may have been a client of Miss L herself back in the day, not getting in without an ID or paystub.
I get a little peeved because its typical in many cities to give a small discount on the two-hour rate versus the one-hour rate. For some reason, this type incentive rarely shows up on SoCal. If we book two hours, which I mostly do, its just double the one-hour rate. If there were a price incentive like there is with many indie providers, I think more guys here would opt for the 2-hour sessions. (I know this sounds a little "whiney", but I rarely do it, so cut me a little slack. Lol)
I miss those discounted 2 hour rates, too.
When I got started seeing Bay Area indies way back when I always just booked a 2 hour. Better rate. Better time. No rush. It’s great for the girl and for the monger that way.
But back then we had rouge livre. So you could text and video chat with a girl before you booked her. Took most of the risk out of booking a 2 hour as the first session.
Bookers love guys that do 2-hours. For them, its the same amount of work as a one-hour, but they make twice the money. One could argue that some bookers may give more attention to guys who book two hours than to guys who tip the girls. LOL
Agreed. Believe me, I’ve taken advantage of that more than a few times. No secret org VIP membership required.
I just didn’t mention it because, for some reason, there are people on here who take exception to almost any mention that our fate might be in our own hands rather than the hands of the (evil) orgs.
Is this true, that bookers get paid by the hours booked rather than by the events booked? Hmmm. Is it true in other locales than SoCal?
This is absolutely true in both NorCal and SoCal as far as I’ve been able to find out. There may be exceptions. I just don’t know about any.
Pretty sure its the same here.
Booker gets a cut of an one hour appt and double that for two hours.
I would not lie to you about the Kgirl scene. The more knowledge you have, the better you will fare in Kgirl-land. Once in awhile, I book more than two hours, like three or four if I'm celebrating something special, and sometimes I feel like the booker's going to come over and blow me too. (Just kidding, but they DO love multi-hour bookings!!!). Lol