I am a bit surprised as a grown man you might fall for this sort of stuff. This is all about money. ALL of it. Just put yourself in a provider's place and assume you are one, which option would you take

a) you get up in the morning and say, ohhh god, please  give me 8 appointments today, all with big dicks and all wanting to go the whole hour and wanting to probably spend a few minutes later and want to chit chat to me about their life as if I care or don't have problems of my own? ohh smelly/sweaty ones are the best!

or

b) you get up in the morning and say, god, give me a few appointments today so I can make some money, please make them old and ugly, please please make sure they are the type with little dick and can't get it hard so they need blue pills BUT PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE god, make them forget to bring their damn blue pills. All I want is them coming in, pay me and get a single pop and leave early.

Be real dude, providers do this for the money even those who seem that they are so much into it and guys do it because for the money they spend they get to live in a fantasy world thinking they are fucking brad pitt for the hour!  

I bet you that is why all the providers book with you!.. NOT!

I'm sure most of us in this hobby has AFT or a few of girls you'll repeat again again and again.
I recently realized that myself always getting too involved/ care too much/ attached too deep to my ATF.
When we grow older and older, physically maybe we can have sex with ATF often/multi-pop, however, don't think mentally we can take it too much.
Me as example, I was deeply "liking" my ATF before her recent retirement, toward the end I would get upset if seeing good TER reviews about her, since I then knew she might become another one's ATF. Rather seeing bad reviews, I was imaging she had been spoiled by me and treat others badly.

So, how you do to continue spoil your ATF (generous gifts, on regular base, extra tips......), but not attach to her too much/too deep to hurt yourself?

Or, in this hobby, there is no true "love". Just keep it "Business"!

If you go into this expecting anything more than a good time, your are only setting yourself up for disappointment.  You have to keep in mind that your are at a disadvantage, your seeking your idea perfect/fantasy woman (whatever that may be). So I think's it only natural to want to spend as much time with her that money can buy.
That's what your paying for....time spent.

Keep it business !!! If you want to be in relationship, date !!! Nothing wrong with having an ATF. Separation of church and state

You are taking it to another extreme. The truth, probably, lies somewhere in the middle. While the provider may not be in love with you, I think it's pretty hard to get pages and pages of 9s and 10s by hating what you do. A disgruntled client is more likely to post a bad review than a satisfied client is likely to post a positive one.

I think you are basing your argument on a faulty premise that providers only do it for money. While money is very important, money will always be there as long as the customer is happy.  So it is stupid for providers to pray for clients who can't and won't be able to perform. They should rather be praying for ones who leave satisfied - and I am sure the smart ones do !!!

Wow guys..this is kind of scary. It is all about money. Just realize that, have fun and move on.

Some of us do have some redeeming value.

If it is all about money, how do you explain the fact that some independents don't want to see certain clients again. Unless, of course, the client shortchanged her.

Right after I gave her the full envelope!  She also asked for me to book another appt soon.  Whereas she has banned half the guys on TER for various reasons.
1.) The client got too clingy and wanted to date.
2.) The client was somewhat violent and wanted angry sex.
3.) The client was not clean and/or had bad breath even after the mandatory shower.
4.) The client even though he had a small dick pounded her relentlessly for almost the whole hour.
5.) The clients tried to pull the condom off during the session and tried for bareback.
6.) The cleint was into kinky stuff that she does not approve of, including greek and keeps trying to push her boundaries.

The original poster should realize that even though this is a buisness that sometimes the girls do also get attached to there regular customers.  But do not cross the line and fool yourself that they are falling in love with you or want to date you.  Dating would lead to jealousy and less buisness and money for her.  There is no real Richard Gere perfect happily ever after in this hobby.  Get over it and fuck for money.

There is room in hobby relationships to genuinely like and enjoy one another. For there to be something unique and mutually important in the connection you establish.  For there to be a reality *beyond* the business. But this is still founded on the business.

And it is all the more important to remain realistic

Some people are just not cut out for it - provider and client alike.

If you find yourself jealous because others see your "ATF" you are already in trouble. That by itself is enough to suggest to me that you are not cut out for such a relationship, unless you can do some serious soul searching, and come to terms with reality.

I do not think that having an "ATF" for is suitable for everyone.

For a client to be good "ATF" material, he must be sanguine abou the fact that the relationship would not be happening without the envelope and that anyone who passes the lady's screening will be enjoying her services, in return for the same donation.

The way I see it is the ladies I see would not follow me home if I approached them in a bar. I'm just too old to be picking up young ladies. I got along well with my ATF but I understood that the day the money stopped, the visits would stop as well and I was OK with that. The money actually works well for me because I don't have to deal with her baggage and she is happy to take care of me while we're together. Boundaries is what it's all about for me. I enjoy the moment when we were together and I think she did to. But when I left with a smile on my face I went back to my real life and looked forward to the next time I could escape to her arms and not worry about what she did in between.
As far as reviews go, I wrote my ATF's 1st review and have not even looked at them since. I don't know or care how many she has or what anyone else thinks about her. It's really not my business and it wouldn't have changed anything if I did. Unfortunately, she retired a few months back and I’m searching for a new ATF but I’ll always remember her and the great times we had together.
Just accept the hobby for what it is; a mutually beneficial arrangement between 2 people. If you want more, go meet someone who’s looking for a deeper relationship but don’t lose any sleep over the activities of your ATF. She’s not losing any over you.  YMMV. I'll put away my soap box now, Have a great day!

Definitely beats doing it SOLO.

And I'm feel that there are valid points in just about everyone's posts - even if some of those points may be on the extreme side (just because they are on the extreme end of the spectrum doesn't mean that it's not true).

When I first started in the hobby, I simply just wanted to engage in the "physical act" whenever I felt the urge (assuming I had the funds) without having to go through the hassle of dating or wining and dining a girl (without a guarantee of a "payoff" at the end of a date).  Additionally, depending upon the girl that I was dating at the time, some activities may be "off the menu" so being with a provider helped to ensure that physical acts that I enjoyed were available.  As I've gotten older and have become a more seasoned hobbyist, I have appreciated other aspects of the sessions that I have with providers including of course those GFE's that we all enjoy.  These "enhanced" sessions do give a more personal experience and I can easily see how hobbyists can get wrapped up in developing feelings for providers.  

But even with the best of providers, I think that all of us really should keep in mind that this is first and foremost a job for at least one of us during the session (and I'm not talking about you as a hobbyist!).  I'm not saying that just because it's a job for the provider that the provider necessarily hates what she does (although I could be completely wrong here).  But I find that for me, there always seems to be some aspect of a session where I am reminded that this is a "session" and not a date or relationship or something similiar.  That is why one of the more desirable aspects of a session that many of us comment on or seek in the reviews is whether the provider is a "clock-watcher" - since we all want to feel or believe that the provider is with us simply because "she wants to be" as oppose to "she's getting paid to be".  I think this would be why celebrities (like Tiger Woods) keep getting in trouble with "amateurs" rather than take the relatively safe route of engaging with professional providers, since it's an obvious ego boost to know that there are lots of women who eagerly want to be you and even adore you.

Utimately I think it's important to note (and corny to say...but true) that providers are people too and they will react to kindness, manners, friendliness, adoration, and definitely to generosity, and it is easy to misinterpret that reaction as something more.  I have heard stories about providers falling in love with clients and even marrying their clients - this is not just an urban myth as one of my providers told me that her second marriage was to a former client.  Not having ever been in that situation, I don't know the dynamics of those relationships, but I think that would definitely be the excepton rather than the norm and none of us should expect otherwise.  I'm thinking that while some providers may be proud of what they do (and even enjoy many aspects of what they do), they may not necessarily want to be reminded of it everyday.

Anyway, peace to all and I think that we should really just enjoy our hobby pure and simple since it's all good!

It happens, especially if she travels with you and/or spends extended time with you locally.  There's a reason you keep returning to see her and it can't be only the sex.  I think you're right, though: it's a business transaction, and if you find yourself in a rough emotional spot, then think this: "if she retires, will she see me for free?"  You already know the answer to that question.

First I remind myself that this is NOT MATCH.COM

It is almost impossible for people to interact with other especially on this level of intimacy to not get attached. It is normal but in my opinion it is your obligation to walk away when you see yourself getting too close for comfort with a provider. There are others who are hotter, smarter, more skilled, younger, more mature, etc. Just go out there and play the field. Agencies are always bringing in a ploethora of hotties to town. Indes come to the city regularly. Sample the talent and when you find a connection, then see her for a while and move on.

If you are looking for a love connection on BP, Cl, EROS, TER then you are in the wrong place.

I'm too old for sweet, pretty girls to want to go home with me.  I'm nearly to retirement age.  There is no way the relationship could work long term.  And if they DID want to go home with me, it's not that I'm too old, it's that they're too dumb for me!!!  I like sweet, pretty, SMART girls.

So the business relationship is the only way to go.  For both of us.

But at my age, it's more about the emotions than getting off.  Hell, I usually don't get off anyway.  I want the touching, the cuddling, the laughing.  I want GFE.  And a bbbj, of course.

So if she's really sweet, really smart, really pretty, and is fun in bed, I leave smitten.  Every time.  Utterly twitterpated.

But falling in love is no basis for a relationship.  At any age.  With anyone.

Falling in love is one of the greatest human experiences, but it's an experience, not a basis for a relationship.  So of course I like to see my ATF's repeatedly.  Just never twice in a row.  That way, being smitten by the next girl helps me "get over" being smitten by the first girl.  'Til the next time.

I wouldn't dare see the same girl repeatedly with no body in between, or I'd end up just like the pathetic fool in Lolita or the Blue Angel!

and a relatively civil one. Can you imagine the mean-spirited comments that would have emanated had this thread been on the GD board? It is very difficult for many to leave emotion totally out of the picture. I think, in the long run, it is better to "play the field" or have several ladies you see occasionally. We are so spoiled in DC. There must be upwards of 10 ladies that, if I were in the boonies, would be potential ATFs.

I was a client of my last gf for two sessions.  You know how I knew that it was more than just business?  When she told me that she didn't want me to pay her for the time we spent together.  It's really that simple, and until or unless you cross that line, you are a client.  She had a few guys that sounded just like you...they'd see her several times when she was in town, buy her expensive trinkets from the stores in tysons...and then we'd hang out and generally laugh about how ridiculous these guys were for spending so much when they didn't have a shot in hell at ever having their feelings reciprocated...good luck, dude...but you were just a client to her...no matter what you might have thought...

I doubt that "most of us in the hobby have an ATF or a few girls you'll repeat again, again, and again." I rarely see a woman more than once. The few times I do, I find the sex is less exciting.

I can give you advice but you won't take it: Avoid ATF situations. Play the field. Anytime you feel yourself falling in love with a provider, stay away entirely until the feelings passes.

Honestly, I don't know how folks can handle so much emotional instability in their lives. I have a busy job and relationships in the real world. I can't get disoriented mooning over some pro.

On the path you are on you are bound to get burned. Don't look to the providers to help you. They have varying levels of equilibrium themselves. Some will be much too level headed to fall into any kind of false intimacy. But others will play your flirtatious games with you. Your job is to look out for number one. You are setting yourself up for serious problems with your attitude.

I totally agree with this. Most of men, us, can not handle emotional instability, as we all have our "regular live" as nice job/loving family/pretty wife, but if we emotional attach to any girl in the hobby biz/ATF, definitely we can not hide in our regular live.
Of course I know all about this, but sometimes simply can't help myself to fall into the sweet kiss/ gentle touch and amazing sex from my ATF.
Did you ever say sometimes for real "you are so amazing, I'd like to take you home w/ me" "I'd like to fold you into my pocket and take you back to my office", "I wish someday I'd be able to MARRY you" or "I'd marry you in my second life".....etc
I agree all of the good suggestion/opinions from this tread, KEEP IT SIMPLE
Thanks again for all good input.

In this discussion, I don't know who are married and who are not; the situations are very different between the two groups.

Friendship can always develop between business partners, so can this hobby. I am no longer married and once had a relationship with a provider. we hanged out together a lot and I always paid for the hour in the bedroom. We never planned to get married. I think it is fine to have ATFs; how far one would go depends on the circumstances.

Thanks to for the many perceptive comments. Regarding this topic, all any of us really have that we can bring to the table for discussion are our own experiences, and I have found that trying to understand and articulate those experiences come with some difficulty. I have found it difficult in just trying to keep it "business," because I frequently find that all my brains, unfortunately, are in the head of my dick when in the presence of winsome ladies.  Rationality and coolness is made very difficult.  However, there is an old Latin dictum (learned it many, many years ago when a high school student and Latin taught to many of us now old farts) that I have tried to make a guiding principle, but have always fallen short of the goal: "In medio stat virtus"; translated as: "In the middle stands strength or power. "  But it is difficult to maintain balance, or at least that has been my experience, since such intimacy is not conducive to rational thought and cool decision making, IMO.  My hat is off to all of you that have been able to not drift to the extremes, keeping "cool" all the time or almost all the time. I have rarely alway had that good fortune.

Really nice attitude, reminds me of Napoleon. Someone asked him how he keeps track of his affairs and strategizes  so brilliantly. He replied that he has boxes in his head and he opens each box and focuses on only that. I think as long as we separate our affairs appropriately, we can keep them very straight. When we begin to mix concepts and apply wifey feelings to a provider or project our silly ideas of perfection onto complete strangers we get in trouble. we have to apply critical thinking to our own endeavors.

The guy asked Napoleon "what about when you go to sleep?"
" I close all ze boxes!"

A gentleman of mine who has been seeing me very regularly for some months now quipped early on: "I thought about asking you to run away to South America with me, but had you said yes, I would have needed to request that you get your head checked before I arranged the flights!"

Jokes aside, genuinely believe that love is NOT the 4 letter word in the "hobby" that so many posters villainize it to be. Then again, I'm a life long polyamourist who has dedicated her practice as a companion towards relationships and interactions that are as beneficial and rewarding emotionally and mentally as they are physically. (For those of you confused sorts, polyamoury literally means "many loves," not many fuck buddies. It is literally the art and lifestyle of embracing and navigating many emotional relationships.) For me, the point of the "professional" end of the companion is that she is to serve as a "guide," determining what the patron truly needs, subtly moving the relationship away from pitfalls, and educating her patron when need be. With a good companion, a gentleman should feel free to develop affectionate feelings, and possibly even love. She should be able to communicate with him on what she can handle, and give him reality checks as to when his feelings have breached into negative territories of jealousy, territoriality, etc, etc.

So really, with my perspective, how could I see it any other way? The point, and the beauty of this whole "hobby" is that it is freeform. You are free to feel as you wish and with the plethora of both ladies and gentlemen out there, able to pick out those individuals who feel are directed by a similar belief set. There is room for both myself and those who seek me out, just as there is room for those who wish to keep a strong divide between the heart and the professional, or even those who wish to walk in and wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am. What truly annoys me, however, is when an individual (either the romantic or the pure sport-fucker, or anything in between) who holds one specific approach insists that is the only way this life must work. We only get as much out of our encounters as we put into them, and thus each of our experiences are based as much on how we approach them as who we are approach. Each of us is responsible for defining our own "reality." Please don't make the mistake that your reality holds ground for anyone else.

Speaking from experience of having genuinely mutually fallen for a provider (and she for me) I had seen on and off  for nearly a year.....I can say it happens, probably more often than you might think. This provider at a certain point no longer asked for a tariff to see ME. I would fly to Florida to see her, she would come to Washington to “relax”....I even went on vacation with her and her daughter to Universal Studios. Upon having on one instance, after having slept at her house, she even asked for me to postpone my trip back to DC as well as breaking her plans with the agency just to hang out while she was in town. The bottom line is I have never met a provider that has a sense of self where they felt like they can disassociate from the profession (completely). My circumstances were unique, even today she still would want to get together for cosmos and ceviche  after hours, but then again I don't see providers as I used to, the physical interest is still there....it's just once you have had the perfect fruit.....well you get the idea......don't be too hard on this bloke.....believe me it can and does happen.....but it is an extremely rare....extremely dangerous line to cross. My advice......keep it cordial, keep it professional.

Remember  that word “love” is very loosely used these days, you can love a person without being  in love with a person. Within the context of  falling in love with a provider, you have to understand before all else this is her livelihood, it may be at times “fun” for her, traveling, gifts, interesting personalities...the jet setters life....but at the end of the day...this is how she makes a living....this is HER profession, this is what she does for a living. Above all else, and without having to elaborate, whatever enticements she may use to give the impression of exclusivity are just an illusion, those tactics worked on you, they can easily work on the next gent.

Well-written with very sage advice.  Could not agree more.  I could write a similar narrative, but you captured my thoughts on the matter, and probably said it much better than I could do.

Greetings all,

I'm new to the hobby but I've been perusing the boards to obtain knowledge as to how I should begin this exciting adventure.  I view myself as a man who has won the lottery, so to speak.  I have an opportunity to experience whatever ethnicity, size, and shape I desire!  Why focus on one lovely lady?  For example: if you own an exotic car,  I'm sure you wouldn't drive her everyday like a Chevy or Ford...no, you're going to keep her in a climate controlled garage awaiting for the next time you have the urge to sit in her supple leather seats and listen to the intoxicating drone of the exhaust.  Then you shift her into gear and take off like the Space Shuttle...once you've reached cruising speeds, you hang your elbow out the window and revel in the moment.  If or when the time comes for you part ways with her: 1) She would have retained her value and appeal because you didn't drive her unnecessarily or abusively, 2) Now someone else who appreciates a fine piece of machinery can begin to forge a bond and develop memories.  In the end, all we have are our memories of our escapades.  We can't get attached to something or someone when there are so many options at our disposal.  Let's not overthink the unpleasantness of this wonderful hobby.  

MJMT

One of the great American poets wrote this around 1927:

she being Brand... (XIX)
e.e. cummings
she being Brand

-new;and you
know consequently a
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was the first ride and believe i we was
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