: Washington DC Discussion : Ultimately we agree, but it's nice to a thoughtful response in a discussion. (EOM)

dreamsescorts See Agency Profile 1359 reads

posted 13 years ago

1 / 22

Not so paranoid it seems your hobby phone calls are being recorded

For Your Information

NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily
Top secret court order requiring Verizon to hand over all call data shows scale of domestic surveillance under Obama

At what point does this filter down to all of us? You can't rationally say you are not affected, you are. Doesn't matter if you're client or provider if you're using any form of electronic transmission. Don't think for a second Verizon is the only one. Apple has been on board long before others, which this information has been known in Hacker circles for years. Google " dont be evil" joined the darkside a while ago.

SEARCH PHASE "Google NSA deal"

For some of you nap time is over.

For those stuck their 'normalcy bias' go back to sleep, there is nothing to see here. The violation happening to you in your sleep isn't happening and its just a dream.

[End transmission]

Lee Dreams
Edamus, bibamus, gaudeamus

London Rayne See my TER Reviews 736 reads

posted 13 years ago

2 / 22

Does Trac phone do the same thing?

Those are the ones most use, and they are burn phones so all one has to do is toss the phone every other month. It's only 20 bucks, so worth the expense.

Polaris 2 18 Reviews 700 reads

posted 13 years ago

3 / 22

It may not be as bad as it sounds...

I just ran across this from an online blog, which in the past has been reliable:

"Earlier today, Sens. Dianne Feinstein and Saxby Chambliss, chairman and vice-chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee issued a statement that read in part: "The alleged FISA Court order contained in the Guardian article does not give the government authority to listen in on anyone's telephone call, nor does it provide the government with the content of any communication or the name of any subscriber. As with other FISA authorities, all information the government may receive under such an order would be subject to strict limitations. While our courts have consistently recognized that there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in this type of metadata information and thus no search warrant is required to obtain it, any subsequent effort to obtain the content of an American's communications would require a specific order from the FISA Court.

oversteerer 592 reads

posted 13 years ago

4 / 22

Sat phones

Dont you use a satellite phone. Difficult to trace if not impossible. No paper or other trail if you do it right.
Might be worth the cost and investment

Sswede 76 Reviews 701 reads

posted 13 years ago

5 / 22

Re: It may not be as bad as it sounds...

And you are relieved to read this fine print legalize I take it? Do you believe in the video tape scandal and the IRS objective fair standards too?

We truly have entered a police banana republic state.

I dont know what to tell my daughters where they should go now and think of my father, an immigrant. He and my uncle fought in WWII to save the world. They both felt it was the best thing they did in their lives. It seems now it, didnt work out. Their unappreciative decendants and a strain of USA occupants they wouldnt have recognized took it away. They would not have understood how this could happen.

This is the 21st century US. Ya like it?

dreamsescorts See Agency Profile 890 reads

posted 13 years ago

6 / 22

False sense of security, we're screwed

Posted By: London Rayne

Those are the ones most use, and they are burn phones so all one has to do is toss the phone every other month. It's only 20 bucks, so worth the expense.

This is a year old, so read between the lines and think outside the box and chances are you'll still be behind the curve. The NSA recruits the 1% of the best and brightest.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/

and

http://news.yahoo.com/nsa-whistleblowers-agency-casts-wide-net-195521229.html

I'll give you just one way around trac phones.
If you use it for more than a few days the GPS ping patters give you way. Human beings are creatures of patterns and we repeat them.

Also, if you are on a watch list, the moment your voice print hits the airwaves and picked up, they got you.

The burner phone problem was solved by the NSA a while ago. Rule of thumb, the NSA is 10 years ahead of where you think they are..always.

The fly in the ointment in the past is the human element, critical data gets ignored or dismissed until something major happens. Then heads roll when they discover they had the information to prevent - fill in the blank - but some paper pusher decided to not take action for whatever reason.

[End transmission]

Lee Dreams
Edamus, bibamus, gaudeamu

go4milfsandgreek 144 Reviews 679 reads

posted 13 years ago

7 / 22

Re: Does Trac phone do the same thing?

Trac Phone is the #1 provider of cellphones under the "Obamaphone" program to give telecom to the poor.

You do the math

London Rayne See my TER Reviews 821 reads

posted 13 years ago

8 / 22

Re: False sense of security, we're screwed

Wow, that is interesting. I don't spend much time being paranoid about the black helicopters though, and I honestly don't know a single person who has been busted for hobby related bs, from his trac phone's so called "record." You call the provider, get the location, and shut the fk up. Toss the phone when you're done. Anything we do is able to trace back to us, but it is rarely ever used for just a misdemeanor. I know drug dealers who have used these phones for years, and have yet to be busted. I don't think they are the brightest and the best lol.

I am sure aliens are watching us too. I don't discredit anything you've posted, but I seriously don't spend my days slitting my wrists over these things. When the FBI shows up at my door, you're right...I will shit my pants then. If what you say is true, there is nothing we can do about it, so why worry? I doubt both hobbyists and providers are going to stop participating in the hobby, or using their phones. Most guys here are not even paranoid about catching HIV from all the BBFS they have, and you want them to care about this? LMAO....not gonna happen.

-- Modified on 6/6/2013 9:21:12 PM

London Rayne See my TER Reviews 638 reads

posted 13 years ago

9 / 22

Here is what I don't get...

You register a Trac phone in a FAKE NAME, FAKE ADDRESS, FAKE everything, so who exactly does it "trace" back to? Snoopy? I am sure the location can be found out, but the person? No sorry...not buying it. If a guy does nothing but pick up a phone, call ONE provider, then toss the phone, I must call bs that the cops are going to bust through the damn door. The problem is, that is not what people are doing. They are using these phones for months at a time, and being oblivious to many things that are picked up.

I would like to hear from someone on TER who was busted for his phone communications via prepaid phone. I would be interested to know what happened. Our every move can and will be watched, and it's always been that way.

-- Modified on 6/6/2013 6:51:40 PM

YoungWildFree 665 reads

posted 13 years ago

10 / 22

Hmmmm....

nce local law buys the info from the NSA then it will be a problem.

Rule of thumb....cell phones have location service and can be traced to a tower etc.its how 911 finds lost people in the woods cause you can trace a tower even with GPS off. Leaving GPS on tracks you down to a house. Always use a hobby phone in a public area....don't make calls near at ya house.

Might not be a big legal deal....but unlike jay walking hobbying has issues with trafficking that forces the law to enforce which will cost time,cost money, and cost embarrassment depending on your life.

iconaclassic 42 Reviews 699 reads

posted 13 years ago

11 / 22

This is Way Bigger than "Hobbying"

...just like, if they had a reason to want to tap your phone, they could have obtained it via court order, far before this mandate...yes, Big Brother is watching, but he always has been

YoungWildFree 645 reads

posted 13 years ago

12 / 22

Re: This is Way Bigger than "Hobbying"

Posted By: iconaclassic

...just like, if they had a reason to want to tap your phone, they could have obtained it via court order, far before this mandate...yes, Big Brother is watching, but he always has been

It cost time and money. You can sweep with NSA info to find anyone that texted or called such and such. Feds won't do it...but local law can buy the info. PG county spends money and time on this matter...I could see them trying to buy info and using it to harass people and follow them in a police car all the way to the hobby location.

However, Obama has admitted to misdemeanor drug use. Jay z has admitted to felony drug selling. You gotta catch it in the act preferably w/ pics of exchanging money or fake BP ads

girlfan1959 48 Reviews 612 reads

posted 13 years ago

13 / 22

The feds have to care more first before this is a problem

If this was a Federal LE priority, they could have done a LOT more already to go after the readers and posters to this Board or lots of other online resources for the world's oldest ... . Anyone posting to this Board is leaving an electronic trail, but more importantly a lower-tech road map of how to find the hobbyist/escort in question with or without any NSA involvement. Every local police agency in the area knows about BackPage, ErosDC, this site, and others. Even if you are just reading this for vicarious thrills or posting ads about services that you don't actually offer (maybe some BP scam artists are safe), you have done far more than any NSA search to call yourself to the attention of Federal LE. You are living dangerously; get used to it, and don't wait for the black helicopters.

However, the resources that any law enforcement agency has are limited and the resources of most of the federal ones are very much so. They need to pick their crusades. The same goes for Federal attorneys. Unless the Governor of New York is showing up in money laundering data that turns out to be escort payments, I doubt if the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York is willing to move resources away from the SAC insider trading prosecution, terrorism cases, or mob-related crime to go after some fifty-something guy trying to recapture a fantasy of his youth by spending an hour in a hotel room with a lady half his age pretending to be his lover.

If you want to get the Federal law enforcement agencies' attention, I would suggest sprinkling your post with key words like "pre-pubescent," "underage," "kidnapped," etc. I suspect that they have more sophisticated ways of finding traffickers, but it might work. In any event, almost all of the enforcement is local, and I would bet that most of the enforcement follows people being too obvious such as a parade of male visitors to a particular apartment or hotel room; complaints from the hotel, its guests, or neighbors about overt activity; or other crimes (e.g., intimidation of escorts; robbery of escorts or clients) associated with this line of work. Don't make a public nuisance of yourself, and you may be (relatively) safe. Disgruntled clients or escorts may have added to the list of complaints that get followed up upon, so let's not be too mean to each other.

-- Modified on 6/6/2013 10:57:04 PM

dreamsescorts See Agency Profile 566 reads

posted 13 years ago

14 / 22

-Laugh- Oh my, good thing I didn't say anything about Aliens & Black Helicopters

Posted By: London Rayne

Wow, that is interesting. I don't spend much time being paranoid about the black helicopters though, and I honestly don't know a single person who has been busted for hobby related bs, from his trac phone's so called "record." You call the provider, get the location, and shut the fk up. Toss the phone when you're done. Anything we do is able to trace back to us, but it is rarely ever used for just a misdemeanor. I know drug dealers who have used these phones for years, and have yet to be busted. I don't think they are the brightest and the best lol.

I am sure aliens are watching us too. I don't discredit anything you've posted, but I seriously don't spend my days slitting my wrists over these things. When the FBI shows up at my door, you're right...I will shit my pants then. If what you say is true, there is nothing we can do about it, so why worry? I doubt both hobbyists and providers are going to stop participating in the hobby, or using their phones. Most guys here are not even paranoid about catching HIV from all the BBFS they have, and you want them to care about this? LMAO....not gonna happen.
-- Modified on 6/6/2013 9:21:12 PM

Too bad my neither of my posts mention your straw-man argument of Black Helicopters, Aliens, drug dealers or the FBI.
Asking a philosophical question of a news story "humm at what point will this manifest into an actual concern" is paranoia to you, I'd love to know what you consider a conspiracy.

I also noticed your disingenuous tactic of changing the parameters of your question and statement (all one has to do is toss the phone every other month) and ignoring mine.

I clearly stated if you use it for more than X number of days, this is how you would defeat it. Pattern recognition algorithms have been around for decades and have been used in i2 Technology based Law enforcement software since 2003.

One time use and throw away is a completely different situation which by the way is old hat. If I recall from the declassified report by Ross Bulla now president of The Treadstone Group, Inc ( look it up, seriously that is the name of his company) the new way around is a thing called Mobile Trafficking. However they are wise to that too.

Obviously you wouldn't be interested London and it's ok, stick to only what you experience and can conceive of dear it works for you.

However if anyone else is curious try goggling Ross Bulla and cell Trafficking and I'm sure there is civilian version of the report out there somewhere.

[End transmission]

Lee Dreams
Edamus, bibamus, gaudeamu

dreamsescorts See Agency Profile 672 reads

posted 13 years ago

15 / 22

Wow Polaris2 talk about a Normalcy bias!

Polaris 2

Really ?

Dianne Feinstein who has been waging her own personal war with the second amendment by falsely claiming mass shootings are on the rise? Which is a lie by the way.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/rise-mass-killings-impact-huge-article-1.1221062

Or maybe you want to read the Inspector Generals report of FBI FISA warrant abuses, which they said when they passed the Patriot act would never happen.
http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/printers/110th/34175.PDF

Look if you want o live in a Pollyanna world go right head keep believing our government is not out of control.

However it does appear the Attorney General of the United States lied to a judge, signed off on a Warrant naming a reporter as a Co-Conspirator in order to get their wire tap. In the case of the AP it was 20 separate phone lines of the press.

DOJ Calls Fox News Reporter James Rosen 'Co-Conspirator' In Leak Case; Journalists Outraged
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/20/james-rosen-justice-department-co-conspirator-obama_n_3305857.html

You going to make excuses for using the IRS for political targeting too?
You know we moved to impeach Nixon for far less.
History is repeating itself we are headed for the police state and that historically has never ended well.

Lee Dreams
Edamus, bibamus, gaudeamus

-- Modified on 6/6/2013 11:43:14 PM

YoungWildFree 613 reads

posted 13 years ago

16 / 22

Re: The feds have to care more first before this is a problem

Posted By: girlfan1959

If this was a Federal LE priority, they could have done a LOT more already to go after the readers and posters to this Board or lots of other online resources for the world's oldest ... . Anyone posting to this Board is leaving an electronic trail, but more importantly a lower-tech road map of how to find the hobbyist/escort in question with or without any NSA involvement. Every local police agency in the area knows about BackPage, ErosDC, this site, and others. Even if you are just reading this for vicarious thrills or posting ads about services that you don't actually offer (maybe some BP scam artists are safe), you have done far more than any NSA search to call yourself to the attention of Federal LE. You are living dangerously; get used to it, and don't wait for the black helicopters.

However, the resources that any law enforcement agency has are limited and the resources of most of the federal ones are very much so. They need to pick their crusades. The same goes for Federal attorneys. Unless the Governor of New York is showing up in money laundering data that turns out to be escort payments, I doubt if the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York is willing to move resources away from the SAC insider trading prosecution, terrorism cases, or mob-related crime to go after some fifty-something guy trying to recapture a fantasy of his youth by spending an hour in a hotel room with a lady half his age pretending to be his lover.

If you want to get the Federal law enforcement agencies' attention, I would suggest sprinkling your post with key words like "pre-pubescent," "underage," "kidnapped," etc. I suspect that they have more sophisticated ways of finding traffickers, but it might work. In any event, almost all of the enforcement is local, and I would bet that most of the enforcement follows people being too obvious such as a parade of male visitors to a particular apartment or hotel room; complaints from the hotel, its guests, or neighbors about overt activity; or other crimes (e.g., intimidation of escorts; robbery of escorts or clients) associated with this line of work. Don't make a public nuisance of yourself, and you may be (relatively) safe. Disgruntled clients or escorts may have added to the list of complaints that get followed up upon, so let's not be too mean to each other.

-- Modified on 6/6/2013 10:57:04 PM

R.kelly was caught on tape doing something foul....and there still was doubt.enough doubt that he is a free man...

Anyways when people give gifts to a significant other and get sex in return...that should be illegal by definition, but it is behind closed door and not public info.

"It ain't what you know...it's what you can prove" --- Alonzo Harris--

dreamsescorts See Agency Profile 735 reads

posted 13 years ago

17 / 22

Speaking strictly in the vain of your comments Sswede

Sswede:

You've demonstrated your ability to abstract think, connect dots and project outcomes.
These 'dots' are for you.

Can I presume you've heard of the "Pareto principle" ?

It was at play in 1791 when so many wanted to stick with what they knew and remain a Confederacy. If it wasn't for those ( ie Publius) who could be considered (%20) who stood and fought for the principles.

In the end it may be the 'Naturalized Citizens' and Constitutionalists who will fight for the concept of 'individual liberty', 'Natural rights' do not come from a government and "man can rule himself ".

"Mom are we there yet?"
"Yes honey, we're pulling into the parking lot of Utopia Land Fun park sweetly. "

They are openly going after the press thumbing their nose at the 1st and 4th amendments. As I suspect you know the second amendment protects the first for however long that stands.

By the way, I know the official fall back position of where the Patriots are going to run to.

It also has great beaches too!

The link below is just for you

Lee Dreams
Edamus, bibamus, gaudeamus

dreamsescorts See Agency Profile 601 reads

posted 13 years ago

18 / 22

Ultimately we agree, but it's nice to a thoughtful response in a discussion. (EOM)

END OF MESSAGE

Polaris 2 18 Reviews 630 reads

posted 13 years ago

19 / 22

Re: The feds have to care more first before this is a problem

Makes good sense. Re my initial post and comments that I was making excuses for surveillance, I did no such thing -- merely posted statements that offered more info. If anyone is interested, my opinion is that governments at all levels sometimes overstep -- that's why we need whistle blowers, invesigative journalists, legal safeguards, etc. At the same time we have to protect legitimate national security information, and there are abuses in that regard too. The two poles will always be in conflict in a democracy and finding a proper balance is not easy. I am not a conservative but the behavior of the IRS in this case and others is outragelous. As for LE and the hobby, consensual behavior between adults should not be the business of LE. Go after traffickers, predators, and crooks (sometimes very hard to get a conviction) and leave the others alone. Just my .2 cents.

London Rayne See my TER Reviews 738 reads

posted 13 years ago

20 / 22

I said at no point your concerns were not warranted.

You have obviously taken the time to research this, have a knack for it, and get the facts, so kudos to you. No straw man here...that's freshman undergrad shit, and was only a statement about how I feel, not how YOU or anyone else should approach such things. My posts are not trying to mock your concerns, but you are right...I don't spend a great deal of time worrying or researching such things. Tanning, boating, and TER seem to be my life Monday-Friday, until I start a 9-5 ha ha. Yes, I really am that fkin bored!

Of course, this is an intrusion into our privacy, but what are we doing to do about it other than whining? I guess, we will see. Did you notice the ass hat in Texas who was set free for killing a prostitute over 150 bucks? That's how much certain laws protect us as women, human beings, and citizens. None of this is shocking to me.

-- Modified on 6/7/2013 11:27:18 AM

steeltipped 41 Reviews 685 reads

posted 13 years ago

21 / 22

This is old news

all I can offer for anyone to understand that this does go on (and has been even longer than you probably think) is read the Patriot Act end quote

ramblingwords 720 reads

posted 13 years ago

22 / 22

Tell me something I don't know

Posted By: dreamsescorts

For Your Information

NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily
Top secret court order requiring Verizon to hand over all call data shows scale of domestic surveillance under Obama

At what point does this filter down to all of us? You can't rationally say you are not affected, you are. Doesn't matter if you're client or provider if you're using any form of electronic transmission. Don't think for a second Verizon is the only one. Apple has been on board long before others, which this information has been known in Hacker circles for years. Google " dont be evil" joined the darkside a while ago.

SEARCH PHASE "Google NSA deal"

For some of you nap time is over.

For those stuck their 'normalcy bias' go back to sleep, there is nothing to see here. The violation happening to you in your sleep isn't happening and its just a dream.

[End transmission]

Lee Dreams
Edamus, bibamus, gaudeamus

Government has too much power, the 4th and 10th amendments are trampled on constantly. But as someone said earlier, the new iPad! the new iPhone! access hollywood! kardashian is wearing a new dress!
Misdirection and sleight of hand until they have you where they want you. Sadly, we are almost there