This was on the New York board.. Any opinions? Let keep this civic please..

This was a sub-topic on the Boston board referring to women putting preference on their websites.
I do not know either. I am not attracted to certain people. Does that mean I should see them.
Preference is one thing. Derogatory remarks are another.
I do not see it as racist just a choise. I have mine and other ladies have theirs.
So I am at a loss as well.
Are we suppose to see everyone because we are "hookers"..a term I hare but lets call a spade a spade here.
I know I am going to get spanked on this but it is just my .333.

AngieRenee
XOXOXOXOXOXO

This question has come up before - my feeling is we have the right to choose who we see and the same should be said for the ladies.  I see no problem with it as long as it is stated up front - - before the meeting is scheduled.

You and any provider run you businesses any way you want and should be allowed to do so with no comment. The comment should be reflected in wether we call or not. At least we don't waste our time getting to the door and being turned away. A clear post of preferences, what ever they are shoule be applauded.

If a hobbyist does not chose to see providers of color, we respect his choice. Why is it okay for hobbyists to choose and not okay for providers? Don't tell me it is different because providers are getting compensated. That's pure B.S! As I wrote on the NYC board, this is a very intimate hobby. You can't compare refusal of service here to the same situation in let's say a restaurant.

thirsty

I agree thirsty but let me know up front..Nothing worst than getting to a door and she won't let you in because of your color.

It's not like our pics are up on Eros so the providers can pick us...They have limited control over who is outside their door and they want to edit out like we do when we view the pics or read the reviews here.

Don't know what you are talking about landman.. They peek out out hole to see who there. The descision(sp) is made then on who to see. Just let people know up front please. Common courstery (sp).

We get lots of upfront info on them and they don't get the same on us. If we don't call them because of some condition that they state up front they have edited out a bad experience and opened up an hour for someone else that fits their requirements.

I'm all for having the women state their preferences what ever they may be.

I agree with you Landman, please state it up front. No need to get to the door and she won't let you in...

To start, everyone is prejudice.  We make pre-judgements all the time.  It is acting on it that causes the problem.  Think of it this way.  I don't care if you are prejudice.  Just let us know where you stand so we can go somewhere else.  The problem for providers is how others will perceive you if you state your preference.  Personally, I don't care if one dooes not like black people.  That is your right.  I will not hold it against you. If you want to eliminate 12% of the population who might be willing to visit you, fine.  It usually becomes a financial issue.  Like most businesses learned, you might not like us but green is green.  It is when your prejudice affects my life, then we have a problem.  

Here is an analogy.  I want a loan at a bank.  I don't care if you are prejudice and won't shake my hand.  I just want the money.  You not liking me, doesn't affect me.  You not liking me and then denying me the loan even if I deserve it, affects my life.  I am still renting instead of owning and creating wealth.  I could have gone somewhere else instead of wasting my time with your bank.  

With hobbying, the affect is time.  Usually if I see a white provider, I ask them up front.  Eliminates the time issue.  

But this really is about perception.  If someone states they prefer men over 35, we are ok with that (unless you are a young hobbyist).  If they prefer white or asian men, that is not ok.  The american creed of equality says that we should not see skin color when we use it everyday.  It always depends on which side of the fence you are on.  If you are under/over 35.  Average or obese.  White/Black.  In the hobby, I see nothing wrong with preference but I'm in the minority on that.

From our provider in the city.. I suspect some will response with there true feeling. I have never seen a complain on this subject from our local.

I completely agree with that thirsty

I don't mind the "labeling" thing anymore because of my choice not to see black men but what I do find offensive is when in making their argument that I should see them, someone compares me to an inanimate object such as Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart doesn’t have to have your dick in their mouth, so please don’t compare me to Wal-Mart.
Please don't equate being in my company to being in a store, I am a live human with feelings and emotions. Wal-Mart isn’t, all wal-mart cares about is making money, it doesn’t have to sleep with itself at night and feel bad that it compromised it’s personal choice for more money.
Wal-Mart has to follow certain laws and if I was told I had to legally see all races, sexes, sizes, etc.. I would work in a different industry.

That is their right and privilege, but isn't that the very definition of prejudiced?  *shrug*

I'm not sure why they are opposed to stating outright whatever types of men they won't see...if they won't see old men, young men, black, asian, latino, etc...just say so...

I'll save me (and others) the time of looking at their ads, deciding whether or not to call, schedule an appointment, etc...

I say just ask a provider if she is ok with bothers.  Why would anyone want to drop loot for someone who is not interested and going to give you a subpar experience.  Ask up front, there is nothing worst than getting to the door only to be turned back, that is just a very humbling experience.  I know we dont expect this in such day and age, but there are still a lot of small minded people out there.

...I think you hit the nail dead square on the head.  If I were a woman, I wouldn't want to see anyone who equated this to shopping at Wal-Mart regardless of their race.

This discussion happened before...I didnt voice my opinion but I guess now is my chance.  All people have the right to choose whom they want to see.  Bottom Line.  However Yes BIG BUTTT right here, to know that in this day and age people are still judged by the color of the skin...that's crazy!  

Has anyone ever taken a look at the diagram of a human body?  Do they have one for whites, one for blacks, one for asians, indians, egyptians and so on...... You get the point.  This body part we call skin is only a shell.  What goes on in the inside is the most important thing in every situation.  Being blessed we hope to be all born with the same five senses... the same amount of fingers, toes etc.  We are all our entity in a sense.  

It is my heartfelt belief that you being a person do not have the right to judge a person by the color of their skin.  All brothers don't carry black women or rob white ones.  In fact I had an Asian American stiff me just last week!!! So yes to each its own... but think about this.  If God had decided that the only people that could see, hear and smell would be white.  And say blacks had taste, touch and smell... What if he broke down by the color of our skin.. I know it's way off topic but how can you base things on someone's shell.  If you are crazy... your azz is crazy!!! If you are in your right mind, you are in your right mind.  It's not determined by the color of your shell.  I keep saying shell because when you die the only that passes on is your soul.  So all in life the only thing that should really be important is your heart, mind, and soul.  When you pass on people won't remember you by the color of  your hair, eyes, or skin.  They will remember you for the love you gave from your heart, the knowledge you spread with your mind, or the broken hearts you mended with your spirit.  Im mixed so I guess I have a different view.  You have your right to choose and all...but what happens when you get put in their shoes?

Just be upfront about it..

You should know better..Enuff said.

just because i am black does not mean i should date black guys, just like, just because i am muslim doesn't mean i should date arabs and just because I am fat doesn't mean I should be attracted to fat guys, and just cause I am woman, doesn't mean I should eat pussy.

Personal choice, is something that fully evolved humans tend to acquire.

just because some men will "do" anything with a vagina, does not mean that all escorts will "do" anything with a penis

i think this goes back to the streetwalker/escort debate

a street walker would probably "do" anything with a penis as long as he has cash, but a escort can afford to be more discriminate about who she spends her time with

They picked on you at school. What is it? I will leave this alone..

i am in their shoes every day, i am discrimated against because i am big and also because i am black

but you know what i tell myself

I would rather someone have that choice and know what they prefer than to have someone see me because they feel guilty that others might think negatively upon them cause they aren't attracted to big black girls

I have skinny white friends who make $20,000 in a 4 hour period escorting (mind you they are porn stars but nevertheless) but those same guys would never even give me a chance to make that kind of cash, whether i was skinny or not, and just because i am black, and i still respect their freedom of choice and don't look down upon them for that choice.

i was home schooled till 8th grade, my first time interacting with non muslim kids or going to a school was in 8th grade

i was actually very popular cause i am kinda shy but very smart and of course beautiful
but yea i didn't really have those kinds of problems in school

there are multitudes of reasons but for the most part it's just that I am not attracted to men of color, and that is not limited to black men, it includes some hispanic men and others of color. THere are other underlying "baggage" issues i am sure but the bottom line is just that i am not attracted to them for the most part.

Please, Ignore my self servingness, as i just got these pictures in the mail from the company who did them, and i am a bit obsessed with them right now, i tend to do that when i get new anything. I just got a car and i am obsessed with it, i talk about it in every conversation. By next week, i will be over the pictures and the car adn onto something else.

-- Modified on 5/1/2005 8:17:43 AM

So blame all of them. What a bunch of crap.. Once you leave a room you still are black and society will always view you as that. I appluase you for letting everyone know your preference, maybe more ladies will chose to do the same. My last post on this subject.. Now back to my bed post.lol

Thank God!! I would never want to be any other race or anything other than what God made me. Thankfully he made me a woman who is a independant thinker and goes by what she feels in her heart and not by Politically Correct stances just to please the conscious and subconscious of others.

I sleep well at night knowing i made the right choice for myself that day.

I am changing my name and relocating to Boston.. Well maybe not.lol

I hope after this thread I can still get a date in this town..lol

I also think it's great that you let people know up front that you do not see black guys so they know ahead of time. I am also a BBW ebony providers who sees all races except black men but that is not by choice. I would love to see them however they only want white providers. The last black man I was with was my ex husband. I have never even had a black man inquire about seeing me. Oh well. Again I love the pictures.

It's tough being a black man :>}! being fairly new to this i have had black providers seem not interested once they find i'm black just as much as whites. So i just tell them i'm black and cut to the chase. Can't be too sensitive in this world!

I doubt you have pissed off all of the providers - most maybe - but not all.... Actually, I don't think posting your opinions as something that would be remembered unless it was flaming.

As for the basis of your original post - it needs to be discussed once in a while as many would soon forget the difference between Prejudice and Choice. We shouldn't forget how lucky we are to live in a country where while not perfect, allows for the difference of opinion and our ability to voice those even if not favorable to the major majority.

Alright: Here it is: black men have LARGE COCKS. I was talking to a provider once who said she did not see black men or asian men. The black men had large cocks and she didn't want to feel it pounding and hurting her. Nor did she want her pussy left with a gabbing hole for the next day. The asian men were to small, so the condoms leaked or didn't fit properly.

Lets ask the ladies about this one.  Maybe that's why girls won't see black men. I mean maybe providers aren't in it for the sex and orgasms like we are. Maybe  when a guy with a large cock comes to the door a lot of women are like, "reality check. I don't want to feel this." Or maybe its something deeper that we don't know about, Maybe these women have deeper issues with black men. Can one really delve into the pyschiology of a call girl without really being one? It's probably deep, convoluted, and dizzying to say the least. Why try and figure it out?

What about ladies who post, "for gentlemen over the age of 35?" Is this prejudice?

Affirmative action? Are the ladies forced by the ACLU to see as many blacks as whites?

What about ladies that won't see Arab men? Latino men? Perhaps they hear the accent and think, "oh god, his culture treats women like property."

Obviously these women have had some kind of experience in their own personal life which leads them to not see men under 35, black men ,latin men, or whatever else it may be.

I think the hole black thing is sensitive because black people in general are sensitive. You can't say anything anymore about blacks without it turning into a heated debate.

Where is the post on Latinos or Arabs?

DC DC DC....you're going against your beliefs here lol

BTW is "La Coruna"....not the "Desportivo". Love yah!

To me. It's all the same. If a lady doesn't want to provide service to people who smell, smoke, fart, want to be fucked with a strap-on, etc those are personal traits not stereotypes........

ok   thats a quote from you .......if a person doesn't want to see people of another or certain race that is a choice that mot unlike not wanting to see people who are fat , missing teeth , tall, short , ect .......I would rather they put it out front so a person would not waste all their time trying to set up a meeting ,only to find out then that the person is unwilling to deal with them .

I used to get called shallow in college b/c I only dated men I found physically attractive.

Isn't it ironic that the only men who called me shallow were men who were interested in having sex with me without paying any attention to my "uglier" girlfriends?

I like the fact that there are BBW providers out there making as much money as me. I never did understand why men made a beeline past my black girlfriends, overweight girlfriends or ones with a limp to date me b/c I was skinny, athletic and white but I am glad they stay my girlfriends and helped me point out that the men were shallow.

For every guy here attacking Vicky, why don't you close your eyes and put your finger on a name of a provider on TER and then call her up. Don't look at the photos, her stats or her ratings and then you will understand what we go through.  We are supposed to look perfect, act like a porn star and treat you like king or we can get a bad rating on TER. At least give us a courtesy of allowing us to refuse service to men who we think we can't give that 9 rating too so we don't mess up our ratings. Wouldn't you rather be with someone who was genuinely turned onto you and gave you a hot session even if she was "ugly" rather than a woman who you viewed as "hot" and had her force herself to have sex with you?

I think I have my own hate fan club here today but I stand by my beliefs.

Governor Slipry; I like that. You and Jeop are always the voice of reason. You also kept me out of trouble in the beginning. Probably would still be on mod status.lol

I meant no harm to anyone.. Just a nice guy that like having fun.. You live and learn everyday.

I agree with your logic.. I rather be with someone that enjoys my company not my money..Ooops sorry, I meant looks. Vicky seems like a very nice lady and she has made her preferences clear. I don't fault her for that. I am impress with the way she has handle the situation. Now can we go back to having fun..lol

LNQR,  I thought the question was fair and the responses for the most part interesting.  It is unfortunate that the only real provider response we got was from Vicki, who seemed to have some trouble articulating a reason for her position.  

Moral issues aside, if I were a provider, I would want to be able to choose who I "provided" to.  On the other hand, I would hope that most would make that decision individually instead of prejudging a class of people.  I've have providers tell me that they usually avoid black men because of size issues,  I've had some tell me that they usually avoid black men, but once we've chatted a bit, or they meet me (having not adequately prescreened I guess)  we hit it off just fine.  It really is and should be based upon the individual, but if some providers decide to merely throw a blanket "nyet" on a group of people they've never met or talked to just because they belong to that group,  I don't feel like I'm missing anything because she is not the kind of person I'd want to do anything with, much less the "deed".  If there is ever any question in my mind I usually tell the lady up front that I am black and as it that is a problem.  In almost every case,  the woman's response was almost indignant, "of course not!"  For the minority who go the other way, that's ok.

Jeep, thanks for putting the kabosh on the pic thing.

Well said. I don't think you have anything to worry about with your comments and opinion lessoning your client list - those who would aren't worth seeing anyhow.

Men are shallow - we know this. And I doubt there are many guys who could make it if they had to fake it. Really, if offered to be a male escort and the money was one which was unlikely to turn away from, they would be not be able to do the job, let alone make their client feel as special as most providers do.

I sent BD my view of this subject. Sorry, but it was so long I didn't think it good to post. However, I did state he could copy it if he thought it would benefit the discussion.

Was jeopcon, slipry and myself. I agree this was a valid discussion and I also was disappointed that no other providers join in the discussion..

I don't disagree with the ladies preferences but let me know up front..

Thanks Jake

-- Modified on 5/1/2005 2:00:41 PM

I don't know if the providers are not reading this or avoiding it. Avoiding it isn't unexpected. Most people would like to avoid the subject all together. However, I'm curious, are you asking the provider community to come out and confess thier likes and dislikes specifically on this subject?

Since the greater majority of providers will accept just about anyone with good references, it isn't surprizing to see the others posting thier opinions here. Not good for business.

As I mentioned in my e-mail to you BD - I think if a provider doesn't let her limits known and the client gets turned away, then it should be post on the board.

I not asking for there likes and dislikes.. Just some thoughts. I understand the business aspect and would never compromise our lovely ladies. I still live here and do like having fun. I know some of these ladies have long memory, no need to piss them off.

Well, cuz if youre black youd be pissed off and of course your going to label them as prejudiced.

My wife said this is not a business, it is a hobby for her and hobbies were supposed to fun and it is her right to decide what kind of stamps she wants to put in her collection.  She made it clear on her site that she prefered certain kinds.  at least she was right up front.

well i can only speak for my wife since she is retired.  she had some bad experiences with black men before she became a provider.and while she was a provider.to have to deal with them opened up a box of anger in her.shed rather not take it out on them by just avoiding them all together than pretending to like them just to get the loot.

she felt theyd be better served goin somewhere where there were no issues involved.im not sayin it is right or wrong or not racist.im sayin how it was for her.in a way she showed some respect by not tryin to fake it like some providers do cuz she wanted them to have a real genuine experience.why does one want to pay someone whos thinkin,man can't wait till this is over with, im so disgusted and repulsed, i remember when tyrell ripped me off last time......

Is it an ego thing with you that a white woman doesn't want your black cock inside of her? Why are taking this so personal? In both my personal and provider life it is only white men because black men don't want me but they trip over their dicks trying to feel up my white friends. Contrary to what you said you were attacking Vicki saying she should know better. She should know what? It's a preference just like the preference of my local BLACK men to want to be in WHITE pussy. So what if it's racists? I am shocked that the fact that a white woman doesn't want black is what is rubbing you the wrong way. My goodness. With all the injustices we as blacks face, this subject has your boxers in a knot????!!!

but I am worse than that. I only seen 5% of the people anyways so I am off topic

ReC DC DC....you're going against your beliefs here lol - not really

We are both right.  Deportivo La Coruña.  And I am not contradicting since I say I don't mind if a provider or hobbyist has preferences since I know I do.  Just state it upfront if you won't see them.  Black/latina preference but will see whites.  Hope to see you again when you visit.  Everyone should see you at least once.

you totally "get" it

Guys sometimes "try" to put me down, because to them, a person of my size should not have a healthy self esteem, i should have all these insecurities and I should be "happy and grateful" to get ANY clients at all

but ummmmm, no, sorry that isn't the case
i am humble but i am honest, and honestly, i know i'm sexy!!
lol

and because i handle myself in such a way, i have many many repeat clients and i don't really have to worry about gaining clients who disagree with my point of view.

-- Modified on 5/1/2005 5:08:46 PM

We never put you down Vicky. We disagreed on your perferences (sp), nothing more/ nothing less. If you go back to all our posts, we were perfect gentleman. No name calling or put down, we don't operate like that on this board.

And you are attracted to every white man that you choose to see?

Actually I'm a young hobbyist and it doesn't bother me at all if a lady won't see me based on my age.  There have been a few willing to see me even though I wasn't old enough but I usually asked what the deal was in the first e-mail.  But I have also been rejected based on age.  And it's not big deal if she doesn't care to see me for that reason.  There are plenty to pick from that don't care about my age.  I don't cause a controversy I just move on.  When people get pissed off they seem to forget that this is a very intimate activity.  She let's you stick your dick inside her body, she can reject who she wants, when she wants, for whatever reason she wants.  You can't really say someone is bad for that reason.  I don't let other men fuck me in the ass.  Does that make me sexist?  We're lucky to have such an overwhelming selection to choose from in this area, if someone doesn't suit you, you can find someone who will.

Having read the entire thread, it sounds like the providers are kinda' "between a rock and a hard place" here.  

 On the one hand, there are a bunch of guys who would like the provider preferences stated upfront in the advertising on the basis of "not wasting the hobbyists' time and aggravation".

 On the other hand, there are those who feel that doing so in the advertising is class discrimination and a basis for avoiding that provider (and hence damaging to their  business).  

 Finally, there are those who suggest that if a provider does this on an individual basis, it should be so stated adversely in the reviews.

 I just can't read an overall consensus in the replying posts.  Sounds to me like no matter HOW the provider chooses to handle this, she will be damned by a certain percentage of hobbyists.  

 I guess it all goes into the category of you can please all or none of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but NEVER all the people all the time.

 My suggestion for the providers would be to go back to the Ricky Nelson song "Garden Party".  The lyrics went something like: "Well you can't please everyone, so you HAVE to please YOURSELF".

 What pleases me?  Intelligence, open mindedness, personality, looks (but less and less all the time), and most of all PERFORMANCE (which the foregoing are intangible components of).

-- Modified on 5/1/2005 9:32:43 PM

I'm editing this post cause it has alot of personal information that i don't feel comfortable having on this board and also i don't want to offend people, i'll shut up on the issue now:

Honestly this is basically how I live my life in general,
I know that no matter what you do in life, in general, there will be a detractor or someone who doesn't agree with what you did
So, you have to know yourself very well, and do what pleases you, and then after taking that into consideration you can to try to please others

Jakefour said I had “trouble articulating a reason for” my position.
I gave a very clear articulate reason: “I am not attracted to them”

-- Modified on 5/2/2005 5:49:55 AM

...for the same reason the makers of French White Wine aren't trying to take me to court for preferring not to drink French White Wine....because it's just not something I care to do!  Life is about choices and not always about race...tired of hearing the race card played in EVERY scenario.  Not everyone is into interracial relationships, but that doesn't make them prejudice.

Big, I have a african american friend who is in the hobby and he tell's them up front, cure's a lot of his wasted time problems. Now don't get me wrong, there are many hobbyist of color and if she doesn't like to see ethnic men than she should state it up front, but if it's a time issue, maybe you should head it off at the pass, know what I mean. Just my .o2 cent

Yeah, yeah, I know opinions are like assholes, everyones got one and they all stink, lol.

To me it's wrong to label any woman who will not see men of color racist, but they are prejudice I guess in a way, right? Now let me explain before anyone rip's me a new one, we all have prejudice of some kind, even if it's a very small one. I don't like the way older people drive, that's a predjudice isn't it?

Now, no one will ever say I'm a racist, I love black women and hispanic women, maybe more than caucasian women in some cases. One friend commented on the Porn Star board a few months ago that he thinks I like black woman more than black men do, lol, but I do have friends that won't see women of color, or one who won't even see a brunette, I don't understand, but it's their choice.

Now that being said, I'm not really into Asian women all that much, yes I've been with one in the hobby (1/2 asian and one of my ATF's) and a couple more in my private life (both 1/2 asian as well), but I'd perfer to see another woman first most times, just preference, not racisim, but I guess in a way some people could say I am a little prejudice towards them, why, I don't know why, I'm just not as attracted to them.

The age limit thing has been talked about also. Me, I'm only 32 year's old and have been turned down a few time's and I've never understood why 29 years and 4 months is pretty close to 30, but I still was turned down. Didn't understand, I accepted it, but wouldn't see after I turned 30, even after she contacted me to ask if I still wanted to see her.

Some way's to lessen the wasted time, the woman should make it clear she doesn't see certain men and the man should let it be known what race or color he is before hand, will save you time and take away that wierd momment at the door if you know what I mean. I almost always say on the phone or in my e-mails that Im a 30 something white guy.

BTW, I hope some of this made any sense at all, I'm really doped up on my flu medication and haven't slept for a couple day's, So I'm a little out of it, lol, so forgive me if it seems like Im rambling or added a few words or sentences I shouldn't have.




-- Modified on 5/2/2005 1:29:45 AM

It is unfortunate that the only real provider response we got was from Vicki, who seemed to have some trouble articulating a reason for her position.  

WHATEVER! She has stated her reasons many times. If you can't comprehend it then that's on you.

Let me also state that I have posted on the NY board, this board, maybe the Washington board and Philly board about this and I am a provider and there were a few more providers who had their say as well. Mine might be there but there are so many messages. I did see a post or two that I wrote.

I don't agree with outing someone on the boards for it at all. I do think a woman should let it be known, but it's just as easy for the guy to let it be known in a e-mail or on the phone that he is a man of color and would solve a lot of the problems that arise, as well as save time and money.

-- Modified on 5/2/2005 2:17:37 AM

I will remove any posts, and not allow any more psots on this thread.  Let's drop it.

Whatever????  another intelligent cogent response.  Two problems,  1) Vicki admitted that she had not articulated a rationale for her position and then decided to do so, 2) your juvenile and unproductive response lends nothing to the discussion.