I have been with a handful of TGirls over the last few years. Some were incredible and some were total ripoff scum. I guess typical of all professional TG and GG providers.

A couple of questions that I'd like to throw out there, both to TG providers and to those that utilize them.

Why would an individual, who is born a male and has transitioned to a TGirl, want to become a professional provider? (I don't like the term prostitute). Since so few TGirls actually go through with the final operation, they probably can't really say that they are doing it to make money for an operation. I would think that becoming a TGirl would be stress enough without having to submit to a whole load of mostly undesireable guys week in and week out. Is it the somewhat easy money? Is it that they have difficulty getting regular jobs? Is it psychological or possibly drugs? What is the answer?

How does a TGirl, or for that matter a GG, have sex with mostly undesireable guy clients. I would never seek out a TGirl who was not slim, pretty, nice body, etc. I could not imagine, even for money, even kissing an undesireable TGirl much less having sex with her. Although I am somewhat older I am still slim, in good shape, and fairly good looking. Can't imagine how really undesireable guys (fat, out of shape, ugly, unkempt, etc.) can possibly get or expect a TGirl (especially a good looking one)to have sex with them even for money.

This is not a fault finding mission. I am simply curious about these things and would appreciate answers from those that may have insight into the professional TGirl world.

Until society gets their head out of their asses, TGirls are discriminated against in the job markets. Their options are cut off at the pass literally. A potential hirer gets the willies and can't deal with another persons reality so they simply do not hire TGs. And yet more think "What would my customers or other employees think if I hired a TG"? So they avoid what they consider to be a potential problem. Basically it is discrimination at the worse level.

I imagine a few of our TER TG resident hotties will give more insight than I ever can. All I can offer you is just my observation and from alot of candid conversations I had with neighbor TGs I knew in Houston.

sage Jamie is the most articulate on this subject. Hope she responds to this post.

edited for typo

-- Modified on 9/16/2007 9:47:59 AM

Why do it?  Money to pay bills, get stuff, have a life, etc.  You can't do squat without money.  

Of course real jobs are more desirable, but the wall of discrimination stops most opportunities.

It's not always that black and white, just like any other complicated issue.  Yes I'm sure some employers "get the wilies", and I'm sure some actively discriminate against TGs.  The flip side is, running a business is often done on very thin margins, image can be everything in some markets, and on and on.  So maybe they feel it could negatively impact their business or brand, and are not willing to take that risk.  As you said, they would think "What would my customers or other employees think if I hired a TG"?  You say they can't deal with another person's reality and this is discrimination at the worse level.  You also have to look at the business owner's reality.  Even if they have no problem personally with TG's, would they(or should they, for the sake of all the other employee's lielihoods), hire a TG and put the whole business at risk?  They have to be cognizant of how the decision would impact their business as a whole.
Obviously I personally love the TG community, but we have to realize business owner's, first and foremost, are there to have a profitable business.

I hate when people used the excuse that ts's can't get jobs and no one will hire them. Look how good they look.  It's not because they don't pass.   If any of those TS's on eros can't get hired at a real job, it's not because they are TS, it's because they didn't bother to get an education, to show up on time, to work with others, to be responsible, to be polite, etc.  I do understand if a TS looks like a truck driver in a dress.  Then I can understand them not being hired.  But not any of the girls on eros.

With those girls, it's not that they can't get real jobs because they are TS, it's that most don't want real jobs. Most of them want a lot of money and they want it fast & relatively easy.  

Some do it because they want material things like very expencive clothes, shoes and purses.  Some to save up on money to get more cosmetic surgery.  Some do it because they like sex and they can get paid for it.  Some do it to be worshiped.  Some hope they will be "discovered" by a client in showbiz (ala Miriam).  A few might be smart enough to buy a house or put some money away, but most do not.  Most think the good times will never end.

There are a lot of reasons good looking TS's don't have real jobs, but that they CAN'T get a real job, just because they are a TS, is not one of them.

Assuming the TS is remotely passable, why would an employer even assume the TS is a TS?  I've never attended a job interview where dropping my pants for genital inspection was required.

You should start by asking a broader question:  "Why would anyone become a provider?"  You are likely to find a broad range of answers specifically.  Perhaps you could isolate generalities and see how they apply to Transsexual providers.

I have work all my life with good paying job. The answer to your question is, there is no job that pay well as a provider. A good provider make more in a day than a person would make in a month. Know any job that get paid well by the hours or less than 30 minutes. hmmmmmmm can't come up with any.  End Of Discussion!

I am still wondering whether many TGirls become providers for the same reason that a lot of GG  girls become providers, Drugs. I am quite sure that drugs, of one kind or another, are very prevalent in this community. This would explain how a some providers could have sex with every beast of burden that walked through their door. Although, the TGirls that I have been with did not seem to have been on drugs at the time I was with them. However, one can really never know what they do in private.

There are probably a miriad of reasons why anyone would want to become a provider and have to have sex with whoever puts down the envelope. I do know that some of the TGirls I have been with would only accept guys that appealed to them, even though they were charging for their services. I respect this as it seems sane to me.

I spent quite a bit of time in the far east. Even though far eastern ladyboys are probably the most feminine in the world and it is difficult for a westerner to tell that they're a ladyboy until they're naked, still the local people can always spot a ladyboy, fully dressed, almost 100% of the time. So, the idea that a TGirl could get through the interview process, in the USA, and somehow start to work with a bunch of generic females without being discovered is impossible. She would probably not even make it past the interview if a female or an observant male was doing the interview. Also, even if by some chance she actually got hired as a female what bathroom would she use? If discovered in the women's bathroom she risks getting arrested and procecuted.

Bullshit huh?  Try this on for size. Hard core discrimination.  Face it, discrimination HAPPENS.

TS Nicole (feature act at Cousins) Houston Tx  Not hired at clothing boutique DARE WARE on Westheimer 2002. Manager at the time had serious issue with her so called gender

TS Alexis, same information as above. Same store same manager, same reason.

TS Suzanne/Barbara Houston Tx. Fired from a small print shop when her identity was exposed by a supposed friend of hers.

TS Ariel, now passed away. Houston Tx. Appied for a floral position at a local grocery store nearby her in 2002. Not hired and questioned about her sexuality during interview process.

TS Roxanne/Anna Houston Tx. Fired from a dancers job under suspicion she had a cock.

TS Jackie Houston Tx. Fired from Krogers in 2000 on Montrose at Westheimer after new manager saw her and realized she was transgendered

TS Rachel Houston Tx. Fired from a nice paying managers job at a high dollar clothing chain in the Houston Galleria. A new district manager learned of her gender identity and her days were numbered.

Sorry I'm late.  I actually had a life this past weekend...  Jessica's family was visiting.

First of all, thank you Sylynce for your comments which are right on target.

Answers for Fla999:
Your question: Why does a t-girl "want" to become a provider?

Answer: I don't know of any girl, transsexual or otherwise who sets out to become a prostitute.

Some girls may enter prostitution as a way to earn money for surgery.  But then it becomes a way of life and surgery isn't so important.  Perhaps as I posted in another thread, we are evolving from a binary gender world to a "tri" world where it's OK to be trans.

Many young trans women are alienated from family as teenagers.  They are threatened at school and drop out.  Hell, in most high schools TS girls can't even use the bathroom safely. They have no other option.  They fall into a cycle of survival sex, abuse, drugs, jail, depression, etc.  Often young t-girls who turn to prostitution have little education, no job skills, many are immigrants, some have language barriers.

What is the choice? To work for $200 a WEEK, if they can find a job, OR for $200 an HOUR?

Some girls are able to grow beyond the business.  Most are consumed by it.  There is a saying "50/30" - 50% of young transsexual women will die or commit suicide by age 30.

I never expected to become a prostitute.  I used to be moderately well off.  When I transitioned I lost everything I worked a lifetime for. My partner and I were living in a motel and 3 days from the street when we ran our first ad on Craigslist nearly 2 years ago.  As they say the rest is history...   I found I am pretty good at what I do. And I really love to pamper and please a man (sometimes to make him serve Mistress Jamie - giggle). But not everyone is cut out for this business.  

Sadly there doesn't appear to be any way out for many girls.  Many are simply unable to negociate the world unless someone holds their hand and trains them in HOW to move on.  Jessica and I hope to be able to save enough money to open a business someday and our adult film productions are slowly growing but I doubt will ever support us fully.  Jessica recently got her first freelance video editing job (for $20 an hour instead of $200).

But the discrimination in the workplace is rampant for transsexuals.  Sure the  Fortune 500 companies  have anti-discrimination policies - but unless you have a Masters degree in engineering good luck getting a "real" job.

All the police want to to is throw transsexual prostitutes into men's jails to be sexually abused - all the media wants to do is sensationalize Craigslist busts - because sex sells.  And it seems like 1/2 our politicians use hookers but refuse to legalize prostitution.

Yet nobody wants to do anything to help prostitutes get out of the business and into real jobs that pay the median wage.  (Which in my area is appx. $60,000 a year.) I don't know of ONE SINGLE PROGRAM anywhere.

I've got a challenge for you guys here on TER - next time there is a job opening at the company you own or work for.  Hire a transsexual, see that your boss hires a transsexual. If you work for a big company make it a policy to provide a program to help girls move into the mainstream.

OK it's late, and I'm outta control, don't mind me...

Hugs and a giggle,
TS Jamie

-- Modified on 9/18/2007 1:30:29 AM

I hate to disagree with this post; however, I dated an absolutely gorgeous TS from NYC who was working as a  model in the NYC until a jealous TS outed her. She was that passable.  She never got another modeling job in NYC.

Here is my two cents. I was going to stay out of this, but Star's comment got me. Hate to say it Hon, but I 100% disagree with you here.

Let's be real guys - there are a lot of very passable Tgirls out there, but if you are around us long enough, you can usually see a few traits that give the game away. I have yet to meet another TS who is 100% undetectable.

AND - that is part of the problem! If the girls IS passable, and then an employer finds out later, you are toast. None of this has anything to do with abillity to perform a job. It has to do with the image of the company in the business world, as well as the comfort level of the individuals within the company itself.

Just like a Mohawk or tattoos will kill you because it does not conform to the accepted way of the real world, so does being a TS - and even more! The business world does not need or want non-conformity. It wants to do business with little fanfare.

Because the gay community has developed such a large influence as a group, they have managed to shift the scale a bit so that they are at least tolerated.

The TS "community" virtually does not exist, mostly because those that make the transition just want to blend in, not stand out. As such, there is not enough of a lobbying force to make a difference. This will not change, simply because those that do make the shift do not want publicity.

The real world can at least grasp that a boy might like a boy or a girl like a girl, but trying to get their head around the reasons for changing your gender is just impossible for regular folks to comprehend. Hell, the gay boys do not even understand it! They do understand being different, and that helps some.

You make your choices, and then you have to live with them. In this case, not an easy task.

Susanna

It's definately more difficult to be a TS in a straight job.  You have to be smart, have an education (or GED), be responsible, be good looking enough not to scare customers, have good social skills, and work hard... all for "normal" wages.  No, you won't make $200 an hour.

I can't comment on Sylynce's examples since I don't know anything about the details.  Can we be 100% sure they were fired ONLY because they were TS?  Although I'm sure Sylynce will swear they were, I've also known some TS's that swear they were fired only because they were a ts.  Then the more you talk to them, you find out they were late for work everyday, fought with customers, mouthed off to management, etc, etc, etc.


I just can't believe that prostitution is the only job available for TS's.  Maybe I'm wrong.

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSgallery1.html

Before I get any (more?) hate thrown at me, I want to make it clear that I have nothing against girls working as escorts.  If a girl can make $450 in 20 minutes, I think that's fantastic!  If she likes what she does, then that's even better!!!

In fact, being that TS girls are more unique than regular GG's, I think TS girls should be charging MORE.  I wish every girl would stop selling themselves short and raise the base pay to at least $300.  It's terrible that they undercut eachother.  Start a tranny union.  Not a tranny ghetto.

I'm not saying TS girls shouldn't be escorts, I just question whether that is the ONLY job that a tranny is capable, or worthy, of having.

Maybe it is.

These examples only prove that TS's CAN get jobs.  Maintaining them may be another issue entirely and I wouldn't offhand dismiss their loss of the job on their transsexuality by virtue of the fired TS's claim only.

I own a business - a mainly service oriented buisiness.  While at the present time I have only 3 employees, I would not hesitate to hire a TS to work for/with me.. passable or not..... as long as she can skillfully do the work.  

One of the reasons I opend my own business was that I was tired of taking out my ear rings to please the conservative clients.  If they dont want my service because of the way I look (or even act) f*ck em.  I am very good at what I do, and the people who appreciate that will always find me.  

Then again I do an inordinate amount of pro bono work for the local women's shelter, AIDS housing, etc., sponsor all the g/l/tg events in town.  That work not only does my soul good, it exposes my services to people who appreciate the intent as well as the art.

So, if you're proficient at AutoCad.. send me a resume!

You can drive a truck transporting goods between warzones in Iraq for $10000 a week.  I'm not sure of the hourly rate.  An entertainment lawyer in NYC charges me $300/hr, rounded up to the next hour, to meet him at his office.  A psychiatrist friend of mine bills at over $200/hr just for time and itemized bills for other services in addition.  I wouldn't doubt if steeplejacks and underwater welders make well over $100/hr.

"I spent quite a bit of time in the far east. Even though far eastern ladyboys are probably the most feminine in the world and it is difficult for a westerner to tell that they're a ladyboy until they're naked, still the local people can always spot a ladyboy, fully dressed, almost 100% of the time. So, the idea that a TGirl could get through the interview process, in the USA, and somehow start to work with a bunch of generic females without being discovered is impossible."

First you claim that westerners can't tell that a ladyboy is a ladyboy, unless naked, then you claim westerners persecute TS's even though nudity is not a requirement of most job interviews.  If the eastern locals can spot a ladyboy 100% of the time you can only know this if you as a westerner can spot that same ladyboy.

What you are talking about is 'ladyboydar' which is like 'gaydar' in the gay community.  Often I meet gay men that feel they can spot a gay guy without prior knowledge of that guy's sexual orientation.  Usually it turns out to be: 1) A guy that fits a gay stereotypes to a 'T' or 2) A hot guy they WISH was gay.  Abe Vigoda never set off anybody's gaydar.  

Truthfully I don't think most people give a hoot one way or another about TS culture and are not well versed in the cultural stereotypes.  They may feel uncomfortable being around TS's, but they have no way of knowing, nor do they go through any effort to find out.

Yes, maybe you are...

Arch, thank you for stepping up with the job offer.  I don't know autocad myself but maybe there's a girl out there who does and needs a job.

Who else?

And along the line of Star's comments - has anyone had an actual experience of working with or hiring a transsexual in a job environment?  What was the result?  Quality work or personal issues that affected job performance?

One thing I've long hoped is to someday be able to start a business and hire other trans women.  But as Arch says, you can't run a business without reliable people who can and WILL do the work.

Hugs,
TS Jamie

Nobody hates you honey...

Hi Star, nobody hates you.  While I see differences of opinion I see a constructive dialogue in this thread.  That's how we all grow and learn.

Your comments are valid.  

The problem is that it's not t-girls who set the rate but the GG's.  And just like with GG's there are girls who want $4-500 and those who are less - and price doesn't always equate to quality.

Unfortunately many gentlemen simply don't have $450 discretionary income.  They often have to hide their hobby expense from a wife or SO, etc.

And as Susanna said, we can't even come together as a community, how would a trans union every work.  Besides price fixing is illegal...  

Giggle,
TS Jamie  

Hello everyone...I made my transition publicly at Saks Fifth Avenue(was told to put on a dress because I was confusing the clients...seriously) and trust me I experienced it all...respect, insults,admiration, lust, discrimination, and jealousy. After several years of becoming number one in the country for what I did in my industry, I left to open my own custom perfumery and day spa...three years later, I have moved to a bigger location and expanded my services to include laser hair removal and skin care. Those that know me, know I do nothing half way and I run one of the most exclusive and luxurious spas/laser centers in the city. This was no easy journey for me and I found out who I can and can not trust along the way(more want you to fail than succeed, especially other TS). I find that if you want others to take you seriously, then you need to take yourself seriously as well. Education is the key(I have two college degrees) and so is career planning(do your research, find a career you'd like and that is more accepting to the TG community). All too often I see TGs transition late in life and lose high profile/paying jobs, because they did not prepare for their transition career wise. Sorry, but there is no 401K or health plan in sucking cock for a living...LOL...which gets to the question I am sure all of you might be asking...why are you "Rachel" now escorting? Because I can...seriously, after only being in monogamous long term relationships most of my adult life(and not even having a one night stand)...I decided after my last LTR of four years was over I would start dating, but I am no fool...I know MOST men will only leave you with messy sheets and empty promises, so why not get compensated for their fantasy fulfillment and have fun at the same time? Besides, I did not go out seeking this profession, an international agency(Swedish Harmony International) contacted me prior to my last LTR and I finally accepted the offer when I became single last fall. I actually love what I do and maybe because I don't have to do this to survive, I can appreciate the quality time I spend with my gentlemen. I feel my gentlemen can tell I appreciate them choosing to spend their time and hard earned money with me and because they can feel my sincerity(and unbridled passion)many repeat their visits whenever possible. Now back to the real world...I was recently featured in the Chicago Tribune and the business is getting even more public notice....BTW, no one ever brings up the TS status, so I'm sure if it was an issue I would have been out of business a long time ago...DFK, Rachel

Thank You Rachel!

Thank you sweetie - you hit it right on the head.

And I agree with your reasons for dating totally.  so guys, take care of us and we will take care of you!

And yes, I've never had anyone negatively mention my status as a TS while doing business either.  But I think "business" is different from employment in that in a business situation people either want a service or expect to make money from you and neither care about anything but the end result.  In a job, co-workers usually seem to be the problems, because they have no vested interest and can express their phobias.

PS - I hope the Tribune story was related to your Spa business and not your "other" business.

Giggle,
TS Jamie  

I have work as a 900 Sex Operator, Accounting, Cars salesman, Data Entry, Teacher Assistance, Clerk, Secretary, Assistance Manager, and IT Computer Analyst...in no particular orders.  None of this jobs or position pay as much as a Provider.  I am very passable and work all my life as a female , none of the employees or my Boss knew about me.  No matter if you have an education, degree, or experience, Escort always paid well. There are colleg graduate who graduated with a degree and still looking for a job. The reason some of us choose to be a Provider is fast money, travel, and work on your own schedule.

People get no blander and middle America than customers at K-Mart. I don't understand why Star, Rachel, and Puccax213 can hold down jobs, if what you say is universally true. It has to be something different than simply being a TS and the intolerant ways of a cruel world.  

I don't think there is shame in being in porn or escorting.  If adult industry work is someone's profession of choice that should be respected.