I love my husband, and am OK with his 'hobby', what I'm not OK with is the lies and denial. How do I make him understand that I feel like he disrespects me because his lies insult my intelligence? That alone is killing us.

A little background if it helps:
We've been together 6 yrs. He is the most amazing person I have ever known.  He's my best friend. We've always been open and honest about what we think and feel, until now.  

I can relate to wanting to explore sexually and I'm not worried that he'll leave me for a Kitty, Amber, or a Jasmine. His money is his own to spend, and as long as it doesn't get crazy and put us in debt, I'm ok. Hell knows I have enough shoes Even fear of divorce isn't reason for denial, we don't have a house or kids and I make more $ than he does. I'm at a loss to make him understand that I can live with his hobby, just not uncertainty and lies. I want to know who I'm sleeping with - especially when I'm not the one enjoying it. I'd like to discuss health and safety with him, so I feel good about when we are together. Right now it's out of the question with him, as he gets defensive and says he is setting it up for a friend (single friend). I've told him honestly how I found out, and now he thinks I spy on him. I admit I did when I saw the first email. I checked the phone record and websites. But wouldn't you?

I want my best friend and lover back and I don't know how to get there from here. I want that feeling of trust back.  

My reason for posting here is twofold. One to get a second opinion, and secondly because I know he comes to this website often - maybe he'll read this and understand me more. For anyone who thinks perhaps he really is doing this for a friend, lets just assume for the sake of this post that he isn't.

Lost In Lies

SnowPea, If he is seeing a provider, and attempting to deceive you in the process, then I have to agree with you.
When an activity is out in the open, and discussed
between you and him, when honesty is present.
It allows for you to have a say in the matter.

Its the lies and deceit, in that he is attempting
to take away your right to decide what is best for
you.
A better way of expressing my opinion, is that he
wants his cake, and wants to eat it too! This is
not fair to you in the least bit.

but some people have a need for privacy in these matters.

I can understand how you feel, and if he loves you, he should make some accomodation towards your feelings, especially if he wants to keep you.

Just remember that it is a very strong urge to keep sexual matters secret.  Encourage him to be forthcoming without being hostile or threatening and perhaps he'll feel comfortable enough to share more with you.

Good luck with this matter and thanks for sharing it on this board.

Keeping secrets is one way of keeping one's personal power, although not a very healthy one. I think your husband may feel some inadequacies which prevent him from being as honest as he might. If we're honest, then we become more vulnerable to having our inadequacies revealed.

If it's something you'd really be interested in, maybe you could bring up the idea of a threesome with a provider and really get things out in the open.

Whenever something like this comes up, many of the men state they keep their wives in the dark because they truly love them and fear discovery will wreck the marriage.  Yet you have had the courage and tolerance to tell your husband you can live with the hobbying but not the deception.  
It's possible he is still apprehensive, and fears full disclosure would drive you to a breakup and he would be responsible.  Dissembling has all kinds of motivations.
By all means, repeat your offer, suggest counselling if that appeals to you and you can't resolve it one on one, and then if he still won't budge state frankly what affect his evasiveness will have on the marriage.  He'll either come around or he won't, and if he won't you'll at least know you're living with someone who can't face up to a real problem honestly.  
All good wishes to both you and your husband.

You say that you have a great friend in him, you say there is love and trust?  You say you don't mind his "hobby"?  
Then back off and let him have his hobby.  Let him have a secret or two, let him have some kind of semblance of autonomy that does not directly involve you.
If there really is this trust that you claim to have, then trust him, that he is doing his homework well and that he is not bringing home any unwanted disease or drama.  Trust him that he loves you above all else and only needs this part of his life for a time to be HIS OWN!!  Trust him to talk to you about when he is good and ready.  Trust him enough to play this game without you because it is a game he wants to play right now.  
Otherwise, be honest with yourself.  Admit that perhaps life isn't all roses and cherries and there is something wrong with your relationship.. something much deeper than him checking out providers and not telling you about it.  The problem (perhaps) is not his lies about the hobby.  The problem (perhaps) lies much deeper and goes much farther than placing a posting on TER site will help with.  
There's nothing wrong with saying, "What the Hell??  Why aren't I good enough to be the only one you're seeing?  Don't I deserve monogomy?  And if not, don't I deserve respect, honesty, and a true partnership? And if not....  goodbye!!"
Nothing wrong at all with saying that.  
Anyway, good luck with your relationship...

Are you nuts?? Your "best friend" and "lover" is screwing high priced call girls. Get a divorce.

Uh...not sure what to say here except.."are you really a wife?"   Are you really saying it is ok for your husband to see providers?   Are you NOT enjoying sex with him?  Perhaps looking into that would make your husband a "stay at home man?"  Short of being a sex addict a man can be faithful IF his wife is cognizant that men need sex.  And we need enthusiastic sex.  Make it interesting and often.  If you can't do this and he is highly charged then you've got to address this issue by telling him "it is ok with me."  Just be honest that you're doing it.

You deserve that.
He deserves sex with a woman he decided to love and cherish.

Thank you for opinions. Especially Trooper2, wormwood and mrfisher.  I found your comments insightful.  BTW we have discussed 3somes, but not with the inclusion of a provider...who knows what might happen now though

I was actually surprised by the other comments made...here... on this board.  Having sex with someone else doesn't mean he loves me less or finds me less attractive, it means he still has some oats to sow. So my reply to them is this: I'm open and honest and I expect the same from a partner. I understand wanting to explore with other people and I would never want to hold someone back (unless stupidity was involved).  I am confident enough in myself that the question of 'why am I not enough' has never entered my mind. While I haven't slept with anyone else, I couldn't say I would never do it, just haven't felt that primal urge for someone else yet. I probably wouldn't pay for sex though. But I sure the heck would tell him about it when I got home, so he could decide what he wants to do and ask me anything he needs to to feel 'safe'. I do trust him to be safe, but things happen you know 'just this once and accidently'. I'd like to be given that piece of mind.  I would rather have him explore with a provider than find a girl who he has to wine/dine and form some form of relationship with. A dinner or two $wise is equal enough to 1 hour with a provider and would take away a lot more of his and my time together.

Anyways just want to say thanks.

Dear SnowPea,

My second opinion, coming from a professional, is this one: I think your concerns are best explored and worked out in couples counseling. This forum is clearly insufficient for dealing with this issue. In addition, this is a problem both of you must deal with, since you are in fact in a relationship with one another. Your issues demand much more participation from your husband, yourself and a competent therapist, all in the same room, than this forum will ever be able to provide.

For this issue to get resolved, your intertwined lives demand authenticity, straight communication and honest actions. You have both lost trust in one another - he thinks you're "spying" on him, and you want the feeling of "trust" back.

Please seek out a psychotherapist in your area. I am attaching the AASECT website, so that you may find someone non-judgmental and perhaps a little more "open" than the average therapist out there.

Hope things will work out,
the Love Goddess

Its the idea, that as a best friend, and partner
that you deserve Respect! Honesty! and Accountabilty!
I mean this for ANY relationship!
Let me put forth another view, say you and him are
business partners, and he is cooking the books,
and stealing money, from the business, to open a
business that will compete against the one you share, Now how would you feel? Ripped OFF!

I don't care for empty excuses, lies and twisting
of the truth, or lame justifications, I consider
that I want to know what is going on, so that I can either stay and accept it, or I can walk away.
Even as a client, I feel that the provider should
be honest with me!

I didn't buy my husband, I don't own him. Sure, I got him licensed but not neutered

I admire your efforts to be mature about this revelation.  You are right about the lies and denial undermining your relationship but wrong in thinking you can get back what you had before.  Sadly that is gone, there is a grieving but that doesnt mean you cant move forward into something new.  What that something is you are clearly trying to work out but one thing for sure is you cant change him only yourself.  I wouldnt waste your efforts trying to get him to be honest and open about his hobby if he hasnt demonstrated that already even after being found out.  I do agree with the other post by a provider about if you are ok with his hobby then let him do his thing with privacy and space.  What you can do is level the playing field by taking some time to think about your own sexuality, sexual satisfaction, dreams and fantasies, just as he has done.  And do something about that instead of worrying about what he is up to.  Focus on your exploring your own pleasures and maybe the dynamics and perspective will change. It could be very empowering and a new source of confidence, as many men here attest. Just a few thoughts.

My guess is that the husband might be afraid of the wife leaving OR afraid that the wife might want a little taste of his fun.

I understand a loving relationship with an open agreement to have fun.  But, I can see why he doesn't want to discuss it with you.  It's his.

It would feel to me like I'd told my husband I needed to explore and he said sure but I get to watch...

I think you're generous as hell and very open minded.

Snowpea, I am also in a marriage where my wife doesn't mind if I hobby. We have a great relationship! Just like you, she is confident enough in our relatonship, not to be threatened by callgirls. There's a big difference from your situation, though. She doesn't want to know when or who I do it with and I like that because I have some privacy. Now, if she were turned on by it, then I would gladly share, but we both know that she would rather not hear it.

Snowpea,

What's striking to me is:

1. your commendable, brave, unconventional openness

2. But that's combined with a still-traditional viewpoint that you're fully entitled to know what he's doing elsewhere - whom he's sleeping with, and how and when he's doing it!

Are these consistent? Either you really want to give him freedom, or you don't. Fredom and spying - wanting to know everything - are opposites.

It's a little like a mother saying to her son, "It's perfectly OK for you to masturbate. But I want to watch."

Maybe the real issue is #3 - your suggestion that you're not enjoying your sex with him.

If I read your remark correctly, why not? You and he need to figure out what's not going right with the two of you in that area, and start correcting what's missing, fast.

Rather than worrying about what he's doing with other women, maybe you can concentrate more on what you'd like him to do in bed with *you*.

Be very explicit with him about that. As LG says, enlist a family therapist to help you communicate that, if you and he feel that would help.

It's terrific that you 'love and trust' him and will allow him 'freedom', without claiming to 'own him'. But that entails your *not* demanding details about what he does - that's inconsistent. You can tell him, even order him, to play safe - but that's really all.

Instead, why not just demand he do what you want in bed. Get your own needs satisfied. And the hell with what he does with others - when you're really getting your own satisfaction, the others won't matter so much to you [and, paradoxically, he'll probably feel less need to stray, when he's feeling competent performing with you].

I suggest: try going all the way with freedom, not just part way. Show him yu really trust him - and yourself.

Does this make sense?

BG

PS.  I just reread your Post and realize I may have miread your "I'm not the one enjoying it" remark...not paying enough attention to its context.  Assuming that's so, I apologize!

Still feel your focus should be on the two of you together, and not upon what he does with others.

Maybe you could incorporate your understandable curiosity about that in a more positive way, by maybe saying something like, "Let's you and me do together something that you've found exciting elsewhere.  You don't need to tell me with whom and when, just what - so I can try it with you, too."  

If he objects to that, then he's being unreasonable.  But if he complies and you still want more to know more about what happened elsewere, than I think you are.  Just my opinion here, however.  I'm no expert.

A general rule I've found from my non-therapeutic profession is: sometimes you find out more about people by not asking.  People will simply volunteer a lot to someone they trust and feel will be non-judgmental. Strangers on a plane are a familiar example.





-- Modified on 8/10/2007 5:55:38 AM

then leave him alone and allow him to hobby in privacy. Otherwise, divorce his skanky ass!

Hi again,

Just wanted to clear a few things up

I grew up in a fairly open household. The only rule we had was to tell the truth and to suffer our own consequences for our actions. Which meant a lot of conversations over viewpoints and what I was doing on the weekend and what the consequences would be...but I was never told no.

Thats the past and where I come from.


The future:
I don't need to know the specifics of what he is doing, I just would like to know the truth and to be reassured that he is wearing a condom and playing safe. I think I deserve at least that much.

I enjoy sex with him, every day unless I really do feel like crap. I'm open to trying most anything, ...perhaps that's the problem, I'm too 'easy' and there is no hunt.

As for what's been going on lately, I have called a truce. I've told him straight out I believe he is lying to me and explained in detail why I think so. I've also told him that I won't bring it up again and haven't(even though the phone records show a few more calls to escorts since the last time I posted), but he shouldn't for a moment believe I have forgotten.

I'll give him a bit of time, end of the year perhaps..then that's it. I can honestly say this is the first time I've been this torn. My life value pitted up against love.

I'm all for seeing a therapist, but not with him. I guess part of how I was raised was believing that we each control our own emotions. And if I'm having a problem with this, then it's mine to deal with.

That being all said, again I thank all of you for your comments and suggestions.

ps:

I've done the schoolgirl costume, police woman, stripper routine etc for him. And basically most anything requested. And yes, I ask for things too

I'll let you know how it turns out.

Have a great night!

Thanks for sharing a part of your personal life,
I for one, would like to know how things turn out for you, in what you decide to do.
I really think highly of you, for your openness,
and honesty,
There is no reason why you should suffer at the hands of someone who cannot deal with himself, and his neediness.
Keep this in mind, in spite of what many of these
people who post, saying that what someone does not
know, won't hurt them, Speaking toward the S.O.
Well plain and simple, it shows a complete lack of RESPECT of the other person.
I laugh at these kinds of statements, because it shows me the real person, who hides behind a mask,
thinking like a little kid, that they can get aways with something, but when the shit hits the fan, they attempt to put the blame on to someone
else. Its never their fault! LOL
I guess that we can call this behavior, and thoughts, Immature?  

For whats its worth, I believe in you, so don't
stop believing in yourself, nor should you short change your self worth.

Keep us posted, and let us know how its going.
Some of us do have an ability to care about others!
T2