Here's the situation...

We emailed for a for about 4 months, schedules never coming together, but we finally did meet in person, once.  Since then, emails continued, and she let it slip it was her b-day, so I arranged a nice gift for her.

Recently, in an email, she jumped to an incorrect assumption, and wrote something which just got under my skin... and hurt my feelings.

Yes, I like her, and enjoy emails, and had planned to see her again.  No, I'm not in love with her, however, as we have several common interests, there is more of a connection that usual.

I'm just on the fence whether to say (confront) that what she write was insensitive to my feelings, or just brush it off.  I'm completely uncertain as to whether I'm "just another client", or if there is a little bit more from her perspective.

All thoughts are welcome...

BTW, I have not reviewed her yet.  By mutual agreement, we decided to postpone my review until a second rendezvous... that is if we can ever get out schedules to click again.

but the zinger was...

"Who is hard up now?"

I suppose, even out of context, that will give everyone a flavor...

Dear h8traffic,

Unless you plan to become personal friends with this provider, I would avoid getting into some kind of email exchange regarding emotions. Any emailing between providers and hobbyists on topics other than appointments is bound to be up for limitations. My advice to you is to use email for making or cancelling appointments only. You can have nice chats when you meet, inbetween the hot and heavy.

Please remember that this business is about sexual services. The fact that you bought a birthday gift for her was nice but now as you see, no good deed goes unpunished. Granted, she didn't ask for it - you volunteered. And it's these volunteering actions that carry an unconscious expectation of acknowledgment, reciprocation, validation, etc. These actions also make you more sensitive and subject to emotional hurt if none of the above is rendered.

My point is for you to IGNORE the whole concept of whether or not you are more than a client. That's something you would know if she offered to engage sexually with you at no cost. Unless that's happened, then YES, you are "just another client."

If you want to have sex with her again, don't discuss anything and act according to your implicit mutual contract. You know, the one that says that you pay, she fucks and you leave with a smile on your face. Nothing more needs to be discussed, engaged in or processed. You are not there to educate her or make her a more sensitive individual. If she's got some characterological issues, she'll find out soon enough off the clock.

By mutual agreement you decided to postpone the review? Ok, so now she's controlling that too? Interesting, I thought the review process was largely anonymous. And what is there to worry about anyway? If she's a stellar professional, she should be able to take getting reviewed any day/any time. Unless there is a malicious or erroneous review posted, the provider doesn't need to get involved in that aspect.

Try to tough this one out, please,
The Love Goddess

You must know better.  You carried on a 4 month flirtation with this provider.  YOU devoluped feelings or what she said would not have hurt you.  (I speak from a point of understanding, first hand.)  This gives her power...  

She might think of you as "Special" or not...  but women are notoriously fickle & doubly so for providers.  I've had a Fav lady say some harsh things (ie:  "I'm just a working girl.") to bait me.  

It's too late to confront what she said...  you might react at the moment & perhaps keep it light...  but there's always the risk of it blowing up in your face.

I'm inclined to believe she has some special connection with you...  or she would not have continued the long correspondance...  but at the end of the day, special or not, it's still a pay4play relationship.  Don't read too much into a single exchange...  
skb

I like the LG's advice, email is for making and confirming appointments. That's what I do. h8traffic I think a little bit of sport f@#king is called for. It's a great way to forget about this provider. Good luck.

I don't know what she wrote or what you mindset was before she wrote it so I will stick to my usual general admonishment about taking anything other than the sex or the money too seriously when it comes to providers.

The chances are that if your feeling where hurt you are reading more into the "relationship" than she is.  If you enjoyed the first meeting just accept that but after only one appointment you shouldn't be expecting anything in the form of an email that isn't mostly stereotypical small talk.

I go pretty nuts on my ATF's birthday...but I've known her for three years and see her once or twice a month. In my mind, getting a lady a birthday gift after just one meeting is an indicator that you are more involved than you should be at this point.

Just my thoughts, this isn't your first rodeo so do what you think feels right...

If she is someone for whom such faux pas are unavoidable (Perhaps she has Aspberger's Syndrome.), then bringing it up is not going to change anything.  If she is always doing this, and it hurts your feelings, then it isn't meant to be.

If it was just a one time foot in mouth thing, then what's the point?

If you do end up marrying her, then I suppose you can bring it up when the JP says:  "Does anyone know of any reason that these two shouldn't be bound by the bonds of holy matrirmony?"

If you tell her she hurt your feelings in an email  she will laugh at you and think you are a desperate fool .

When you walk out the door the fantasy is over.

Well, you've been given really good general advice, but I really don't understand how you can expect specific insightful answers if you don't reveal any more than what you have. From what you have revealed, I would assume that you said or did something that made her believe you were saying she was "hard up." first. Not a smart move! If that's the case, you are the one who should be apologizing.

I give my ATF birthdays gifts; one's I know she will enjoy, since she let's me know what she likes, but I always, always keep in mind that though we are friends on a certain level, the bottom line is that it's a professional relationship.

I can only speak for myself but if I said or did something that hurt a clients feelings, the last thing I would do is laugh at them. I would feel very bad that I had said or done something so thoughtless. I value all my clients and, granted, it is a business relationship, but I truly respect their feelings.

and you helped me a lot.  My instinct as Mr. Fisher put it, was just to "let it slide".  I think she was having a rough day and needed to vent, and I happened to be the one who drew the short straw.

For those who don't know, Mr. Fisher and I go way back... and I'm 99% sure his "marry her" comment was his way of poking a little fun at me.  For the record, that is the last thing on my mind.

I think I also may have mislead people when I said we had been emailing for 4 months prior to meeting.  Perhaps I should have said "spanned 4 months".  Prior to meeting, those emails were infrequent, with gaps of 2-6 weeks without communicating, and it was mostly about screening and things like "Will you be around (dates) in (city)?" and her reply of "No, I'll be in (different city)".  Our first meet was 2 months ago, and we haven't been able to find a mutually acceptable time & place for a second meet.

LG, I love some of your advice, but this bit about only using email for the mechanics of setting a date & time and nothing else, well I have to take an opposing stance on this.  That may be fine & dandy when dealing with agency, however in my experience, my best dates have been those where we develop a little rapport via email/phone/TER message board/chat, etc before meeting.

I'm a little confused how you concluded she was "controlling" my writing her review.  I suggested this, as I was late to the meeting - darn LA traffic - and we had to cut the session short, as I had to make my next civie meeting.  When I suggested that I wait for second date before writing review, she agreed.  As far as being anonymous, most gals are asking for TER handle as part of screening - perhaps I misunderstand your question.

In the end, I suppose it's a bit like cooking.  If you spend time in the kitchen, sooner or later you are going to burn yourself on a hot pan.  Put a little ice on it, some burn cream, and it'll heal up just fine.

Thanks again everyone!

It's good to know that you use the phone for establishing a friendly relationship. I guess my wish for everyone is to stay as anonymous as possible; however, in this day and age, maybe that has become increasingly difficult. If I were a client, Lord knows I would HATE to have some kind of email trail leading straight to someone engaging in something illegal, even if nothing sexual is said in the email. But that's personal preference. Many providers don't like to communicate extensively by phone, or maybe they just don't have time. Of course, I'm so nutty that I don't think hobbyists and providers should interact much beyond the sessions - whatever happened to the 4 F's, LOL?

I'm also curious about "developing a relationship before meeting." Why do you need to do that? To me, it seems counterintuitive to the idea of remaining as anonymous as possible. Also, don't you have time to talk during the session? It just seems that there is a lot of needless personal involvement, that's all. Are you there to get a girlfriend through the personals or get your wick dipped? Again, just curious, that's all.

Back in the day - even during the first years of TER - hobbyists did not volunteer their usernames as part of the screening. There are other ways to screen a client, although I understand the convenience in looking up someone's reviews and deciding, "do I want to see him as a client?" My point in all that is that it removes the right of the hobbyist to remain anonymous in his review-writing. Just think of the inspector reviewers working for Guide Michelin - the restaurants don't know the identities of these men [yup, no women, I guess we don't have tastebuds] and the review process is entirely anonymous. I suppose that's an "eroto-political" stance of mine - I don't think reviewers should be forced to discuss when/how or why they will review providers. Providers can ask for reviews, but reviewers should not feel obliged or monitored for such things.

I'll close this posting by saying that the majority of hobbyists do not go to extraordinary lengths to "get to know" providers. They go in with one objective in mind - to get laid. This doesn't mean that they are rude, nasty or bizarre; quite opposite, they can be nice, friendly and very desirable as clients. But they don't remotely get involved with the issues discussed so frequently on this board; the fact that less than 1% of all reviewers even surf the boards in general, and the Erotic Highway in particular, may be an indication of the anonymity and the discretion still available to those hobbyists and providers who prefer it that way.

Cooks and diners shouldn't get too close,
The Love Goddess

My goal is to have a great time. I have one provider that I consider a friend, the sex is always on the clock, I'm not looking or want anymore friends.

LG,

I think you may have misquoted me as saying "developing a relationship before meeting" when I wrote "develop a little rapport" and to me there is a big difference between relationship and rapport.  A lot of the gals put a considerable amount of time and effort into their website, and some of us really do read them.  Often the reason I contact a gal is some item of common interest which is mentioned on her website.  I will make mention of that on initial contact, and that may or may not develop into a short, or long, conversation.  In the latter case, it may branch out into other areas of mutual interest.

No I am definitely not there to get a girlfriend, and I suppose that getting my "wick dipped" ((your choice of words, not mine) is the agreed upon conclusion, but I hope you will concede there is bad, mediocre, good, and great sex, and my personal experience is that more often than not, the quality of the sex, or rather the probability the sex will be good or great increases if there is some contact, and some rapport before the session.  Please note I say "probability" has it's not a sure thing by any means.

I do agree with you 100% this is not the norm, and most gals (and guys also) aren't really interested in any contact more than the minimum is needed.

I'm pretty new to this, and TER, so I can't much comment on the old days.  Now, I do know some providers who will not see a guy who does not have TER reviews, its a required part of the screening.  I actually get more anonymity relying on my TER info.

I do enjoy your Michelin analogy.  I suspect the reason the reviewers do not want to be known is to make sure the restaurant doesn't give them special treatment above and beyond what the average diner will receive.  In this case, if I get special treatment due to my TER status... I shall not complain.

Final thought... I want to make sure LG and anyone else reading this knows clearly that I agree (and appreciate) LG's thoughts on this topic... many of which I do agree with, and some which I do not.

... I am however curious where LG stands on the subject of dinner dates...

''Now, I do know some providers who will not see a guy who does not have TER reviews''

Wow I would LMAO if a girl told me that and I am sure I would have a smartass remark

I can only offer up the link below, and that's a even a bit dated.

Perhaps with the recession things have changed.  Lately, dinner is "off the clock"
or about 20% or less off the regular ph rate.  But dinner with me is a blast!  I simply do not do it by the hour any longer, and have had zero problems.

I hope I don't sound cocky... if you met me you would know that is not my style... I'm very laid back.   I offer a dinner option... and almost always get taken up on the offer.  

But the dinner part is just about hanging out and having fun, food & drinks.

It's just like... well... having fun with a friend.  But we had sex first.  Maybe it more like going out for Sunday b-fast after a Saturday night pick up at a club...

but for the gift... which makes sure we understand the rules.  and the boundaries.

when i approach providers about a dinner date and suggest a particular restaurant (generally very high end) that they often volunteer to limit the compensation to the two 2-hour private times that frame the dinner.

i don't know if it is because i am so charming or so pathetic and don't care to speculate.... just my experience.

LG I think you usually give great advice but some rules  are not written in stone..
IMO it depends  on who's asking for dinner.
I have a hard time getting away from work during the week so I tend to make evening or week end appointments, and I don't make dinner provider dates..
More than a few times with different independent  traveling ladies, after I had left the donation and I was getting ready to leave, she told me she was hungry and was tired of room service food..I took the clue and thought I
was being a gentleman when I usually offer to take her out to eat, and I never considered a donation would be expected, since she asked me..
I know for sure two of them did not expect more because one of them insisted on Wendys and another offered to pay for her food..Every provider  I have taken to free dinner, I took to free dinner  at a later date and donation has never been mentioned..
I don't go back to the room after dinner except with the Wendys provider but she insisted we finish the wine ..
I will add that I listen during dinner and sometimes I hear a lot of venting about things or people in their life that upset them..
Just like the general population I think most providers like to unwind after work and if a lady is thousands of miles from home and
nowhere near friends it gets old talking to the TV..
Perhaps sometimes I would be better off paying extra donation for dinner as I have had some free dinner conversations that quite ruined my temporary fantasy that I paid for..



-- Modified on 7/27/2009 10:10:31 PM

And this, quadseasonal, is precisely why I don't really like to answer such questions, because people misconstrue OPINION for ADVICE.

Last time I checked, independent providers were at their discretion when time and money paid for services were concerned. When you ask MY OPINION, that does NOT construe some sort of matrix for what to expect from a provider. If professionals want to give away their free time for whatever reason, so be it. BUT PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR MY OPINION AND THEN CONSTRUE IT AS ADVICE.

NOT popular in my book,
The Love Goddess

That's fine, h8traffic,

As long as you don't think that your M.O. goes everywhere, or that my OPINION covers the entire gamut of prostitution.

On the other hand, while your story represents one individual's experience, it would be foolish for everyone to assume that this is par for the course.

You don't sound cocky, just naive. There are providers who wouldn't DREAM of eating one morsel of the finest food "off the clock," much less treat part of their date like a "Sunday b-fast after a Saturday night pick up at a club." I have no idea where you dine or on what or how - all I can tell you that this business is highly hierarchical and extremely segmented. Some providers charge $300/hour and they might find it very appealing to get a free meal and some nice conversation. Other providers don't lift a finger for less than $5,000/day and believe me, they would sniff at your kind of scheme. They operate on a whole different level than posting ads on TER and theirs is a much different life than screwing by the hour. And yes, they do exist.

Now, you asked for MY OPINION, and my OPINION is that providers should be compensated for their time, whether they are dining or screwing. That may not be the opinion of some providers and/or some hobbyists, but it is mine. Another OPINION I have is that it is highly offensive to bargain about sexual services, but I do understand that some providers may be in a position to do so, for whatever reason.

This thread started out with your asking for advice. Now you are asking for opinions. That's fine, as long as you don't mix up one with the other. My final advice to you (this is NOT OPINION, IT'S ADVICE) is not to take your own experience as gospel. Some day you may happen upon a provider who gets very offended at the mere thought of asking for any free time or reduced rate. When you do, please remember this thread.

That's all,
The Love Goddess

between unplanned, spur of the moment consensual dinner and a man requesting an appointment with a dinner.

let it be offered by the lady.

but only after knowing them for a year or more.

and I had seen them from once to a handful of times.

I've taken quite a few providers to dinner and drinks, or to a strip club, and have never been asked to compensate for time that was not spent having sex.

When you request a dinner date - you are provided with fantasy.

When you have off the clock burgers at Wendys ... you have a side dish of reality

Lina

I am wondering what provoked the comment,
"Who's hard up now?"

That sounds like a defensive reply to something you said that suggested she was "hard up"?  To which you would be deserving of a some smart ass comments & denial of any future dates.

Totally agree with whomever said that a paid dinner date is your fantasy fulfilled & a spontaneous dinner date comes with a side dish of reality....Like me in my  Koolaburras & a wife beater, lol vs. the Chanel heels & dress du jour!

Brennan
My shoe obsession has brought on shameless label name dropping!