LG - you've commented, if my slowly califying brain recalls correctly [we are more or less in the same age cohort,lol] that women simply don't have the sex drive that men do, which means that being a provider is about something other than sex.  AND, you've disabused us guys of the notion that our ATFs are really enjoying the sex qua sex as we males do.  Now the issue of control -- meaning control over another person -- is inherent in any relationship, of course, no matter how casual.  But is there any learning, or do you have an opinion, on whether providers are motivated to be providers because of the sense of control over men that it gives them?  And when I say "control" in this context, I mean control beyond what is ordinary in relationships (if that can be defined).  What I mean is control as a means of self-validation or control as a high.

Muchas gracias.

that I know well enough to discuss deep philosophy with seem to agree that their biggest emotional thrill comes from pleasing us.  They derive alot of satisfaction from our pleasure, especially since they are an integral part of it.

  Some providers, even though they don't show it, are disappointed when they feel they haven't brought us to bliss.  From what I've seen, the more mature the provider, the more important this is to them.

   It'd sure be interesting to hear the providers' take on this!

Now that I think about it, one of the reasons I love to make sure my dates have their own fun is that sense of being in control as they 'lose it'. I hadn't noticed that about myself before. Thanks.

Hi Turkana [after the lake?],

I do believe being a provider has very little to do with just wanting a lot of sex. After all, a woman who just wants to screw her brains out can do so at her own leisure, and not commit illegal acts. Of course, some women have found that providing is the optimal way to combine business with pleasure. Those women are probably among the more successful providers out there. But I don't think that 'wanting sex' is the impetus for a career in escorting.

As to the control issue - I don't believe that providers "are motivated to be providers because of the sense of control over men that it gives them." In fact, I believe that the DISCOVERY of that phenomenon comes way after the fact of becoming a provider. Most providers - n.b. we're not talking about professional 'dominatrixes' whose job it is to provide control for a fee - get into the business because of the possibility of making relatively easy money. Comparatively speaking, a successful provider can easily make a living wage equal to say, a first or second year MD in an HMO, or a young law associate who has passed the bar - and perhaps even more. And this without having to attend years of schooling - or paying for said tuition.

On the other hand, plenty of women are aware of their ability to control men through sex and eroticism; that's possible without even going near commercial sex work. But recognizing and appreciating the control that a woman can experience from the transactional aspects of selling sex - that comes through repeated observation and analysis of the VALIDATION providers get from happy clients. In addition, men understand that in order to get a better level of service, it would make sense to act politely and pleasingly toward the provider...even if said men are paying for services. I do believe evolutionary short term mating strategies are at work here as well: A man will bring not just the envelope with cash, but also his 'best behavior,' since it is still the woman who does 'the choosing.' A surly female may choose to terminate the encounter prematurely, in which case the male leaves emptyhanded [i.e. the coital act is not consummated, despite the 'bounty' he has brought the female.] Now you repeat exposure to this benevolent behavior day in and day out for years, and pretty soon, a woman will experience a level of control over men that she previously may not have had in prior 'civilian' relationships.

Now, is this control an illusion? Not in an isolated sense, but one must be careful not to generalize the situation into the 'real world.' Any smart provider realizes that in her daily life outside the bedroom, the world does not revolve around her; in fact, in civilian life, a pretty young woman may NOT get the same level of respect and be afforded control to the same degree that she experiences when a horny man is at her 'mercy' craving HER as a sexual being.

Now, some providers will extrapolate their 'being in control' in the boudoir to their entire existence. But nevertheless, there are forces of dualism to deal with. The same man who becomes a quivering mass of submissive jello in the bedroom before the deed, may afterwards regard the encounter and the provider as nothing more than a receptacle for his fluids. She may mean nothing to him, and instead, he will go home to his s.o., wife or even his MOTHER [egads!] and afford her every single shred of respect he can muster, while in his mind denigrating 'the whore' he just consorted with. The Madonna-Whore complex is alive in well in many corners of this world.

So yes, I believe that some providers, particularly those who perhaps have experienced very little respect in their childhood or pre-provider existence, may feel 'self-validated' from a sense of control in their workplace. But of course this doesn't just happen to providers! What can we say about every single fashion model or actress out there - they get exactly the same validation through repeated exposure. And are actresses attracted to acting because of the 'control' they experience if successful? Doubtful. But in that exalted moment when the paparazzi bulbs are flashing and the world is shouting her name, such a woman must indeed feel that she has the world and all its men by their proverbial cojones.

One last PS - I hope my observation of the male-female sex drive has not left the impression that ATFs don't have the capacity to enjoy sex qua sex as males do. I don't believe they enjoy it as consistently as males, that's all.

De nada,
the Love Goddess

LG, I have been reading this forum for some time and find your insight and intelligence to be both informative and entertaining.

Bravo and thank you for clearly articulating so many things that we may know intuitively, but rarely, consciously examine.

To all the other contributors on this board, thanks for both the questions and the feedback.  What a pleasantly thoughtful bunch you are.

Now, can we get back to ED issues and "This time, I think it really IS love and not the money" type posts

but it easily can degenerate into sadism if not checked.

The more interesting and rewarding control is self-control, however.

(mentally and physically)

I find that sexual relationships become more interesting when the partner is not controled, but allowed to explore, thus leading to new possibilities.

that's why I choose to be an Oral Specialist.

My pleasure is to manipulate a man...be able to control what he feels, push him to the edge but don't let him go, over and over, until I decide he can have his orgasm.

My pleasure is not to give a man a simple orgasm...is to give him the strongest & the best orgasm ever.

I enjoy seem a guy screaming in pleasure, then feeling disorientated for few minutes, unable to think or move after I am done with him.

To me, yes, is all about control...to lead a man to the point where pain & pleasure converge into something he has no control over himself.

wanderineyes, for me the client's pleasure is always of the utmost importance, and if i sense that i have not succeeded in pleasing them as well as i'd like, it devastates me. i know this comes from 2 things: my submissive nature and my relatively low self-esteem and confidence. my life revolves around pleasing others, in or out of the hobby, because that is what's important to me. yet at the same time i don't have the confidence in myself to believe that i'm "all that" and that i'm really capable of pleasing anyone. so when i please someone and really really know it, i'm delighted. when i'm unsure, it confirms all the negative things i already think about myself so i get down for a bit.


i certainly feel no sense of control in this business...quite the opposite, being a submissive female i often feel helpless around men. for me it's about the drive to serve and please, and my need to be used. the financial aspects are a bonus, not a necessity, although it does help quite a bit with the degradation factor...some hungry older man comes in, has his way with me, uses me up til he's satiated, then tosses an envelope on the table on his way out. i'm simply another service in the course of his day, like a hair cut or a shoe shine. it definitely makes me feel objectified, but the thing is i like that feeling.

a place pretty much stark and desolate, but at the same time spiritual.

Yet you know you're in "civilization" when, in the middle of the landscape, with nothing but scrub in sight, two dirt tracks converge in a "V" . . . and there is a "Yield" sign on the side of one of the tracks...

Betty, I willingly relinquish all control of my body to you.

love the power.

nothing turns me on more than feeling a guy get hard, knowing he wants me.

For many providers its about sex.  Pure simple sex.  Yes, many women DO have the same sex drive as men, and will happily tell you so.  Ask the former Angie Renee Love.