Chatted with a POT last night who seemed like she needed some help with her bills but not a lot, and was really into things that  i was... good conversation.  She texts me this morning asking when I'm available  I tell her I could meet in a couple hours and then instead of agreeing she starts drilling into the money subject telling me that she's short on bills for the 1st...  

I tell her look, I'm an honest guy... I can't agree to help you with your bills without knowing if we even like each other.  Do i have money that I'm down to give to the right person, sure.  If you decline a $70 dinner can you have the money instead, you betcha.  But I'm not just going to make you a promise now, it depends on how we get along and how often we'd see each other and other factors.

She says "I totally understand, that would be stupid of you"

Then she blocks me on her phone and the site.

Do I know what this means? Not at all

If she looked hot enough, I would simply had said "I can understand you needing some help, lets talk about it when we meet tonight, I am sure "if we end up liking each other" I would be more than willing to help you out with some of your bills"

Where you went wrong and got yourself blocked was carping about the seventy bucks you were going to spend on dinner. THAT made you look cheap and not worth pursuing from her POV. And truthfully, if she was hot enough for you to meet with and the seventy bucks you were planning on spending really was an issue, in that case "you are cheap" and she did the smart thing by not wasting anymore time with you.

IMO, you were probably ok, until that one dumb statement that is.

Personally, I would never give a POT SB any money "just to meet" but if seventy bucks is your budget for dinner for two, especially a first date with someone you expect to fuck. Sorry dude, but maybe this isn't for you after all. $70 is a round of tequila shots for a handful of friends. Remember, many,most SB's are looking for a "generous guy" not a cheapskate who is going to make her feel guilty for ordering the lobster instead of the chicken. It's not even a matter of how much you spend, but the level of panache you have while doing it.

This type of SB is the badgering type whose motivations grow stronger as the first of the month approaches.  

My suggestion to you is to go for that 70 dinner date and to enjoy yourself. You seem to be confident in your abilities in addition to your appearances, charms, manner, etc... Therefore you could've potentially closed the deal with another 300-400 as a token of your appreciation toward building a more meaningful sugar relationship.  

Everything that I read about you, brings me back to my original statement that you are truly diminishing your own chances. If I keep repeating myself, you'll totally be mindfucked so I may take it easy on you, unless GaGa eggs me on to pile on you some more (J/K)

We were meeting for coffee. at 2pm.

The dinner was a total hypothetical and not ever in the cards... I was just explaining my attitude to her.

I paid a pro $400 last night, its not about the dollars, its about her attitude.

-- Modified on 11/28/2016 1:24:46 PM

-- Modified on 11/28/2016 1:26:28 PM

Well you're half right... I'm younger than most (41) confident in my appearance and charm and manner, but I am the highly intelligent cerebral introvert type... so I'm a bit socially retarded.  My confidence and charm is part natural but also comes from years as a performer, so I know exactly what to do when all eyes are on me.

My problem is, which I realize looks like just a negotiation issue from my descriptions, is that I am totally blunt, and lack any adeptness in the social maneuverings that dishonest people do, and that young women master very early.  The upside is that its basically impossible to exploit me because I don't have manipulable deceits...  the downside is that all of these people are running manipulations and they don't want to be cold called on it.

Even some of the pros in town... they either love me or hate me.  Some decide I'm a DNS just from chatting, others fuck me for free on the side cuz I'm fun.

Its a mixed bag being me... I could use some refinement but I'm not willing to be a liar.

without having ever met you in person (if that is your preferred shtick to meet them first) just tell them that you do not mean to be abrupt but there's conference call which you will have to take shortly but you will give her your undivided attention when you meet in person.  

During the meeting always take the high road and never go toe-to-toe with a girl trying to beat her down on her economics or lack there of. Nod your head and let her ramble on and then once she's done, present your offer without referring to your hobby experience, someone's worth, etc, etc...

Your discretionary budget is $X amount and that is what you feel comfortable with. End of the story! Good luck.

Not where it comes to their perceived self worth especially.

There is a huge middle ground between being a spineless jellyfish and an arrogant, rigid ass. You seem to err on the side of being rigid and an ass. Whereas most TER members tend to lean towards being spineless jellyfish.

Yes, your upside is you will rarely get ripped off, the downside is that you will go through a LOT of POT SBs in order to get laid. In all honesty, your personality might be better suited to sticking with hookers. Bluntness will rarely scare off a hooker, as you have already found out, you will scare off a LOT of POT SBs by being overly blunt. If you are going to continue to try your luck with SB, I hope you are in a "target rich" environment as you are going to get blocked a LOT with your style.

Yeah I'm in one of the Top target rich areas in the country I'm sure...  If a girl wants a submissive bitch who's gonna fork over his dough because she says so... she doesn't want me.  I can take it.

You will find some POT SBs who will probably fcuk you for free and may even hook up for free from time to time if there's going to be some incentives such as 420, fun companionship, a FWB type... However the danger is that you are meeting women on a site who are looking for $$$ to grease their squeaky wheels, therefore there will be confrontations of sorts when they try to preach to you as to why you're not a real SD and that you are there primarily to exploit. If you are really objective, you will also understand their plight.

All that I can tell you is that I've had free p*ssy on that site and I also lost them very quickly because I was trying to change the rules of the game. I took them out to nice dinners and also bought them a gift from here and there but had never promised an allowance and always walked carefully around the subject matter when it was broached and brought up. I learned from my own past mistakes and now I advocate against the old me! Hope that this helps you.

None of these relationships last forever and I have had a couple of these girls not only never ask me for money, but flat out told me the only reason they had gone out with me in the first place and fucked me in the second place is because I didn't treat them like a hooker and utter those two "words of death" on SA, "How much?" I have had at least a dozen different SB tell me how much they hate those words, especially in an introductory message.

One thing that will come in handy with these girls who "seem" like they are interested in fucking you for free, but in truth just think it is too "hookerish" to ask is to listen to them for any hints of financial hardship, If they mention in passing how they have to work an extra shift because of rent or a car payment, a few hundred bucks slipped into her purse every now and again will work wonders in keeping her attention. I mean honestly, what young woman doesn't have at least some financial pressures.

Once I get a whiff of a lady being REALLY broke. It's radio silence.

You know what GaGa, I have changed and I no longer have the patience or the desire for someone to come and just "hang out' with me on a whim. Been divorced for many years, kids are all grown up and outta house which is now my empty nest. The allowance based arrangement tilts the floor slightly toward me so that I do not commit cardinal mistakes of getting into a relationship. I sure as heck would like to fuck every night before I go to sleep but I also wish to snore in peace and perhaps let out a loud fart here and there in the middle of the night too. Plus, I''ve always been a cr*ppy full on BF but much better as a lover and an over all protector / (security) provider when left to my own devices and allowed to have my own darn space.  

I reckon that deep down there are some of such commonalities within all of us single somewhat older SDs on here

You prefer and advocate these arms-length transactions because you want to keep the people themselves at arms length.  I don't have that problem, I've never been married, I don't have kids... I mean if a girl is hot enough and wants to be compensated with rent in exchange for being my live in fucktoy I'm all over it.  I'm not paying women to avoid emotional intimacy, I'm paying them to cut out the bullshit of traditional dating.

I also love morning sex, but after that. "don't you have somewhere you need to go?" Yes, I can relate completely.

I too have been divorced for well over twenty years, I have no kids and I most certainly don't want another human being around all the time no matter how hot she is. The very longest I have had a woman stay with me in the last decade plus was about two weeks. She was a hooker/GF and her agency had gotten busted. She stayed with me for about two weeks while she was figuring out what to do and it felt like a lifetime. What I find really ironic is before this, I was spending about 6 nights a week at her place, but then I would get up in the morning and we would both go about our lives until evening when we were both done with work. Having her at my place 24/7 was just too much togetherness and we broke up shortly thereafter,

I think I might be able to tolerate an "every other day" relationship, but that's pretty much as much of any one person I want to see at this stage of my life too.

I had a similar situation... POT whose pics were hot as fuck and was interested in meeting up. We texted and she seemed pretty interested in meeting ASAP. The odd thing to me was that she wasn't asking anything about me or seemed to have no interest in me whatsoever... she pretty much said yes or ok to whatever I proposed or said. She was a total 10 and trophy wife material so we set a date to meet and agreed on 500 per meet. She said "Ok great. Here's my PayPal for you to send me the $$" I said "Huh? You've got to be kidding me. I don't even know you. I'll pay you the 500 when we meet." She then went into this long song and dance about how she's been screwed over by other guys and who she met and they didn't have any money. I said look I get it but Im good for it and I promise I'll have the money when we meet. I don't know you and I don't feel comfortable sending you money until we've met. Against my better judgement, I even offered to PP her $75 as show of good faith and give her the rest in person. Her response was something to the effect of "I could cough and get $75." At that point, I was over it and told her she was a con artist and she wasn't getting shit from me.  

LEN, if you had given her any money she would have ghosted you and you would have never heard from "her" again. I bet she had no intention of ever meeting with you so good job for using your big head. Unless you were talking on the phone, who's to say it was even a girl you were chatting with?

-- Modified on 11/28/2016 8:47:54 PM

I dunno this particular intersection of greedy and destitute is really starting to disturb me.  I haven't written about even half of my experiences on SA here yet... so much garbage and weirdness...

I honestly think I'd rather stick with peer reviewed pros than gamble on the sexual prowess of some greedy little kid or a completely mess of a middle aged single mother.  So far I'd say 6 out of 8 local hookers have been total winners for the price... on SA so far like 3 out of 40 have even been human or had a noticeable soul.  Not worth the effort

And stop crapping in Princess' and STD's playground.

and SftD is going to be RV'ing across this great land of ours. No surprise that LEN's time was short lived but there's still hope after a period of reflection, retooling and regrouping.

I personally have you BassTurdRat suck on my d*ck than enter the hooker foray here in this locale. Seriously Orange County just a little further north of us offers a much more fertile hookerville than the one we've got down here. OC in Cali is not too far behind Dal, TX in terms of variety and its price point competition.

-- Modified on 11/28/2016 7:27:01 PM

POT SB tells me she wants 1500/mo for twice a week I say okay so thats like -8-9 visitis a month you want like 175 per visit, she says no either half up front or 300 per visit... so assuming she's not a thief, and i'm sure she is... I can see her 4-5 times for 750 and then change my mind.... or pay her 300 per visit. yeah that makes sense.

I agree with GaGambler, $70 for a dinner for two probably turned her off, but I do think she was scammer none-the-less. FWIW, with drinks I can never get dinners under $125+ usually not incliding tip, but I like to eat well so I am Ok with it.

articulate to us as to what it is that you are exactly looking for and what it is that you are offering? Perhaps we can help and guide you to transition a bit more smoothly as in all seriousness, you are fucking embarrassing us!  

Here is what I tell POT SBs:

I am looking for both mental compatibility and physical attraction that lead to such connections. I don't seek an emotional component from the outset which can be misconstrued as clingyness, obsessiveness and possessive behaviors but if both parties are level headed and sane, I am not opposed to going down that emotional road without the aforementioned baggage only if and when! What i offer is $X amount of financial assistance spread over 2-3 monthly installment with the understanding that the offer can be rescinded if compatibility and scheduling hit insurmountable obstacles. I offer the said amount of financial assistance because I believe that it will help toward making her life less stressful and in return she offers to me that magical female touch and tender loving care which puts an extra bounce in my step. Win-Win for both if we like each other and the terms are right. Further, I reward extra efforts by her in return by being more generous outside the boundaries of that financial agreement.

All that you have uttered so far in here has been about is breaking down numbers and number crunching, offering to be wild and fun mixed in with 420 friendliness, sucking on faces, pulling hair, whining about being blocked, offering an extra room to a POT SB so that they can be your fuck toy... How do you expect to attract a sane person if you are all over the landscape?  

So come on and tell us what the fark are you exactly looking for?

Ok... whoa... I'm not 420 friendly so I didn't say that, I don't have an extra room so I didn't say that....

But because you asked so nicely here is what my profile "Looking for" actually says in literal fact on SA:

"I'm interested in providing some form of compensation in exchange for companionship 1-2 days a week or perhaps more if merited.  22-32-ish, attractive and healthy with a mature head on her shoulders and minimal drama.  Must establish some sort of connection first.  I will entertain transactional requests and arrangements, but my preference is someone who is choosing ME over their target dollar amount and to have a fluid ongoing interaction.  Locals Only.  

I guess it worthwhile to say that if your sole interest is financial, I'm probably not your guy.. I mean I could be, but I have a lot of other things to offer that I'd rather give.  I have every intention of offering monetary support but I'd prefer an arrangement where someone appreciates how hard it is to find someone like me, and values that companionship and connection as much as they do some support.  Also, there are a lot of ways of spoiling a woman that don't cost a cent.

If you skipped straight to my Income and my Net Worth... you might be missing out... a person has no reason to be honest there and most guys are lying.  Also if you don't have a very high drive BCD, we're probably not a good fit.

In terms of mutual benefit, I'm completely down, but its not beneficial to me to pay someone to eat a meal that I'm also paying for... just to be clear.  Some ladies here have wild expectations.

One more time: I AM NOT GOING TO PAY YOU TO TALK TO ME OR EAT FOOD.

If you ask me to I will block you.  End of story."

-- Modified on 11/28/2016 7:57:34 PM

Was that a request to start a separate SB gripe thread for your enjoyment?

300 per meet is actually pretty decent. You could give her a test drive at that rate and then move to allowance later... assuming you don't both tire of each other.

First of all, "interested in providing some form of compensation"? Really LEN? You desire 4-8 times or perhaps even more per month but your starting offer is some form? Granted that most SBs are not well educated and certainly not well seasoned but a smart one could and would skewer you over that first paragraph.

The second part only gets worse! OK, so you claim to be quite a catch and that intrigues some women because it plays to their curious nature but what is so special about you? Are your pictorials so strong to override all their primary (financial) desires? I don't just mean an Adonis type demigod but perhaps photos of you atop the Kilimanjaro summit? Wrestling tigers? Swimming with sharks? I mean what do you have to back you up as the Dos Equix guy because the way I read it, you would offer financial assistance, but you're such a catch that you ought not!

There's nothing worse than dumping on your fellow SDs because that actually has a negative reflection of you. How would you feel about an SB who would claim that all other SBs are gold digging, money grabbing skanks and therefore you ought to pick her?! Not good.

The rest is just petulant! BCD? Why even out a hobby acronym in there.  

Sorry friend, but this is an aggressive and poorly composed profile which portrays "jerk" and it attracts c*nts. Take some time off.

Its hard to have a $125 dinner when you are a sober vegetarian.

It is decent, if she didn't seem like a total hustler and have no profile at all except for two sexy pictures.  and in the end her parting comment kinda proved me right... after I explained that she could get ripped off pretty badly taking 750 up front and seeing a guy 4 times (as if she had any intention to do that) she said something to the effect of "Says the guy that wants $100 raw pussy every night. Seems like you broke."

I offered her more than $100 and din't plan to see her more than twice a week... and I'm not sure what raw pussy is... but I'm unfamiliar with cooked pussy... so I don't know maybe I could have really learned from her.

I will take your advice under advisement... but each thing is there for a reason...  

Including the girl who told me that more than an hour of sex was more than she could handle with her bf.

And despite what you think, in all the c*nts, I have actually met a few pretty nice women.  Its just not the majority.

But since you asked, yes my profile photo is of me wrestling a tiger while swimming around the foot of Kilmanjaro...  

Yeah I'm kind of an entitled ass, I get it... but I've never needed to pay women to fuck me... I've had really hot girlfriends my entire life... I just don't like to go out and find them anymore.  

Fine. I'll tone it down in the morning.

Sigh...  

LEN, my friend...   You just make it so complicated.  You comment that "every thing is there for a reason" shows me what your real problem is.   It's often committed by POT SB's as well:  

Rule: Do not punish your next POT SB for the sins of the last SB. And the reverse for the SB; don't punish me for the sins of the last SD who was a jerk/control freak/cheap bastard/ahole/etc.  

You profile should attract POT SB's by presenting a caring, generous, and respectful gentleman who respects the idea of sugaring in the sugar bowl.  Not a total dick, and not a complete pussy/push over. Stay away from all the "don't be ___" clauses.  That just shows the POT SB you are a cynical bastard.  Her defenses go up, her ask goes up, her wiliness to be flexible (about anything) goes way down.  You're just salting the well before you even meet.  Yes, you must absolutely remember why and how you've been burned in the past and when the red flags start to show, avoid or gently steer her towards the path of goodness.  

Consider the opposite; I will never engage with a POT SB who has such call outs. It means I get punished for the last guy's offenses. Not interested.  

When she presses for a specific commitment to an amount prior to meeting, I tell her honestly if that's in my range of reality or not, and then usually go on to say something like this:  

"I usually prefer to meet first and see how well we like each other. If we get along, I like to start by helping you with a bill or expense each time we see each other.  If that seems to go well, we can talk about a monthly allowance or similar long-term arrangement.  This gives both of us control of the process. Please let me know if this works for you."  

9 times out of 10, this gets me a meet (for no $), maybe drinks, maybe dinner. And often (3 times out of 5) gets me the opportunity to close with BCD right away.  Interestingly I usually decline the BDC offer (unless she's super hot, or hints that she's ok with sub-300 sugar) and tell her it was good to meet and we can make plans for our next meet soon.  The "I could get it, but I'll wait" strategy seems to show my confidence and comfort and typically results in acceptance of lower P4P sessions soon after.  

Of course, I still get the "here's my number, lets meet tonight" 1st time messages on SA. I've only accepted this once thinking it's a pro in SB clothing. I was right. But I also go laid for 200. Go figure.  

Finally on the "bluntness" issue: I politely suggest that you can be blunt, but that doesn't mean you need to be verbose about it.  My old boss used to tell me: "It's not what you say, it's how you say it."  Another old boss had it even better:  "Never miss an opportunity to keep your mouth shut."  

If she makes an unreasonable demand, you don't need to do the math to show her why she's insane for asking. Just tell her you would be comfortable with ___.  Like previous posters have suggested, take a clue from her earlier messages; if she says she needs rent money, ask her how much rent she pays, then present your offer in terms of how it will cover (some or all of) her rent. Ex: If you see me 3 times a month for $400 you can cover your $1,100 rent and you will have some left over for fun stuff.   Then, and please understand me here, SHUT THE FUCK UP and wait for her to reply, counter or agree.  

Real world: I recently started a new SB arrangement with a 24 yr old personal chef.  Super hot, very chill and affectionate without being clingy.  After our second P4P, she told me she's trying to pay off her car loan of $2,600.  I told her I'd loan her the cash at zero interest, give her a note to sign, and she can meet me 8.6 (ok 9) times to wipe out the note.  Of course I had to trust her to live up to the agreement, hence the legally binding (legalzoom.com) note she signed that I can take to small claims court and enforce. She did the math and said: "Ok so that's $300 per meet?" I said" "well let's call it '$300 plus' since I'll sometimes take you for dinner or shopping. We've now met 5 times and she's never asked for another dime. Yet, I have spent an additional $100+ on each meeting just cause I wanted to.  She's coming to meet me tomorrow (happy birthday to me!) for dinner and play, and I offered to take her with me next October when I take a 6-week vacation (cruise and wine tasting) in Australia and New Zealand.  Now she has incentive to stay good with me for long term.  

Bottom line: Being a jerk to protect yourself will work much better than you probably want

I've been laying low since my premium expired in October.  Due to holidays, I am not traveling to my playground as much so I figured I'd take November and December off, so to speak.  I have a unicorn in the playground but she is getting a little flaky with my time between trips and another that I'm not sure will last.  I figured somewhere around the first of the year or in February I would go back to premium.  I have a few others that are in the wings that I could call upon but since I'm not traveling I figure I will just wait.  I have a local SB that is a quasi-hooker type (that is not a knock on her, just the way our arrangement really works) but its tough to get time away from the wife to see her

END OF MESSAGE

and Happy Birthday dude.

You would think that a profile such as yours would generate less hits, but a much lowering ratio of girls with stars in their eyes seeking thousands of dollars each month from you.

Apparently the opposite is happening. I seem to run into very few women who ask for anything totally unreasonable after meeting in person. The MOST I was asked for was a girl who "claimed" some other guy was interested in seeing her for $850, I told her to "enjoy herself" and she countered with $450, I told her $300 and she was in my bed ten minutes later. lol The most I have actually paid was $400 for a multi hour date of about 3-4 hours, and $500 a few times for an overnight. Usually its a couple of hundred for a multi hour date and $300 for overnight. That seems to make most of the girls happy that I have met.

Yeah, I get these kind of "offers" all the time.

Another common scam are the ones who want you to sign up for some kind of "internet safety key" or some such bullshit which involves you getting "verified" by some online firm. Yeah right, sign me up. lol

Most likely these POT SB's aren't even in this country, or even women as you so aptly pointed out.

You are thinking as an erudite and sane man but LEN's profile as caustic and somewhat crass as it is, it will attract those with very strong bitch shields! It is quite counter intuitive, but there's your proof. LEN portrays psychopathic behavior and he's naturally attracting alike.

As for the rest of your missive, I'm totally on the same page on the 300-500 range. That 500 which I offer is my top line allowance for an overnight date which also includes dinner and whatever normal couples do. Due to current time constraints, I do not seek afternoon trysts but if I ever find the time to accumulate rotational SBs with less of "mental / emotional" gravitation toward, my offer would rarely be over 300 for a couple of hours in the afternoon. I may step up to 400 if she's smoking hot but that will be the initial opening top offer.  For the LTA and overnight type of SB types whom I am more involved with, I do offer more in terms of surprises  (presents, shopping, mini trips) but no so much so for the tryst/FWB type SBs. I may find the time in the New Year to get back to the latter method and start my own rotational roster. We will see!

END OF MESSAGE

Everything is negotiable, but these numbers are about 100 lower than the experience I've had. I will choose to blame the higher cost of living here in the bay area

But that kinda sealed the deal for me when "she" said she understood my position but still wouldn't budge. I think she was playing the long game and thought I would cave and send the 500.  

I got conned for about $60 during my first time on SA back in early-2015. The details are unimportant, the girl ghosted me after I sent her the money. Luckily it wasn't a lot of money, but the lesson learned was worth every penny. I promised myself I would never get scammed like that again. 75 bucks I could risk. If she was a fraud... 500? No thank you.  

On to the next one lmao.

Hooker rates tend to be at least a hundred bucks cheaper in Texas than the Bay Area as well.

If you are a veggie why do you bite girls?

Just like the wise Princess has already pointed it out that you can just move forward with next one. She was probably a scam artist and next thing she would ask is to send some money via Western Union. But I agree with GaGa that you should not get into any numbers and just keep it vague until you are let in. I have learned it the hard way myself.