Ive only had limited luck with SB  public time. Could be my age. J have a PPM playtime agreement.  How do guys do the dinners, beach, baseball game PPM?

Side question. I always have the lady tell me her PPM. Helps weed out the Dreamweavers.  Thoughts on that?

-- Modified on 2/25/2026 4:28:03 PM

When I discuss PPM with POTs its always with the understanding that I intend for us to do fun activities like hockey games, biking, kayaking, jet skiing, horseback riding, TopGolf, etc and have BCD time.  So whatever PPM we agree on these things are expected to be included.  I've had a few that agreed up front and then came up with excuses for us to just have BCD time.  I am not going to turn down BCD time, but obviously she's not going to be on the A list unless she can suck a golf ball through a garden hose. lol  

I laugh because one in particular who kept coming up with excuses was absolutely fantastic in bed.  We did ultimately compromise on activities that included dinners out and she did agree to go to a hockey game (after we had BCD time, lol) with the understanding that she would only stay for the first period. lol.

For you guys who enjoy public time…do you  typically provide the same ppm for purely public time (e.g a midweek dinner out with no BCD) as you do for BCD time? I get that BCD plus dinner after is one ppm, but what about purely public? Thanks

BCD is expected with the public time.  We are going on a date.  Dinner, drinks, show, etc plus sex.  If she only plans on being with me for an hour she goes into the escort category.  If she wants an hourly rate she goes into the escort category.   When I discuss PPM, I'm clear on expectations.  If she's not comfortable talking about sex over text I offer to hop on a video call.  We can feel each other out that way.  If she lives close I'll do a M&G.  But I'm clear there are no expectations.  IE I'm not paying you just to meet me.  If we move on to BCD then we can have the arrangement start with full allowance.

If she wants to be 'discreet' I'm clear that my expectation is still a few hours of BCD time.  Which means more than one round of sex.  Had a great thing with a hot korean girl for a long time.  She only was interested in sex.  She would come over, we would have sex.  Hang in bed naked and talk.  Another round of sex.  Shame that ended.

That makes sense, but once a comfortable BCD relationship has been established, I can see  the occasional purely platonic night out being something that both might be interested in. How would you handle that, in terms of ppm?

TLDR: I pay for dates, not BCD.  Once I embraced that mind set, the negotiation and expectation discussion is straightforward.  

 
I make a point of discussing arrangements as full dates that can include multiple activities in addition to BCD. My allowance offer is for each date, which I expect to last several hours at a minimum. Dates can be longer if we do some activity that requires more time (ex: a special event, concert, festival, or a drive up the coast for wine tasting). If I want to plan an overnight event, I will offer additional allowance if asked, usually around 1x PPM per day.

 
Sometimes I take an SB to an event where the schedule or logistics won't easily accommodate BCD time. In those cases, I still provide her usual PPM, with no "make up" BCD expected later. But that's my decision to do.  My approach: I'm not paying for sex like I will with a hooker. I am paying for her companionship on a date. And most dates include sex.  

 
As others have mentioned, some SB's decline non-BCD time from the start, and some end up declining them later. That's their choice - remember that consent for anything can always be revoked at any time.  But those arrangements that start or evolve to BCD only don't tend to last long for me, with that SB either ending the arrangement when she finds a bigger wallet, or with her being demoted to my B- or C-List of BCD backups.  

 
Life is good

 
The Cat

Now that I think about it, I've had fairly few arrangements that included public time.  And even fewer that included public time without BCD time before or after.  It's probably because few of my SBs have been local.  I have to drive an hour in the RV for rendezvous, and we hang out in the RV for playtime.  A few have also enjoyed going out for food afterwards, an offer I always make.

One girl I really enjoyed a lot would make the drive up to my home for our playdates so I could take her for a motorcycle ride afterwards which she really enjoyed, and we'd stop for lunch somewhere out of town.   She's finishing her nursing degree rn and taking a break from sugaring but says she'd like to resume when her training is done.  I hope so!

When I have actually met a SB for a non BCD event, like going to a film festival, joining me and my wife on a group motorcycle ride, attending a lecture, etc., I don't offer any allowance.  For me, maybe more than for Herb and others, the allowance is closely tied to a BCD playdate.  I suppose some of you will say that puts my SBs into the escort category, but it does NOT feel like that to me.

Again, I go back to sex is expected.  So, let's say we are going to a concert.  With travel, parking, etc that is longer than the typical few hours.  Especially if we are going back to my place.  So we discuss in advance.  If, for some reason, she does not have the time for intimacy I'm clear that I'm only paying for dinner, drinks and tickets.  If she gets mad about it then I'll make it clear I'm already spending a lot more on our date than I had in the past.  Concert tickets are not cheap.

This is a good test.  Is she only with me for the allowance?  If so, it's fine.  But then I expect to get laid.  If she doesn't want to go to the concert without getting paid than she's not my SB.  Just a fuck buddy.

Now, let's get ahead here, when I'm very serious with an SB and she's my girlfriend.  We aren't arguing about date length.  We go on trips, events, etc all the time.  She already knows I expect sex.  When we go on dates and she's on her period she already knows to give me a BJ.

What Herb is basically saying, its your call if you provide the ppm or not for purely platonic events after you've gotten comfortable.  Like Herb, I would likely provide the PPM if I knew going into the date it was only going to be a platonic date.   Not likely going to have a purely platonic in my case, but it could happen. lol

So if I am going to a restaurant or a concert or a mall or a sporting event , and if we hang out together bcd later, it’s just the same ppm, nothing higher  

If someone is charging extra, higher likelihood she is an under the radar pro or escort  

In general , you want to be with women who are eager for those activities and for spending time with you versus charging you by the menu or clock  

Anyone who just wants to do bcd one shot and leave , doesn’t stay as an SB for long for me atleast

I had not given it much thought. I think I have true FWB relationships with my ladies. I learn lots about their lives. They don’t care about mine. We really don’t have much in common, so the aftermath is relatively short. My question is:  Do you really find them fascinating or do you like being seen with them?

What do I really enjoy?  That seems to be the question you are asking.  For each of us it's a little different.  So, why do I do sugar dating?

1. I like unprotected sex.  Sure,.I can't guarantee the girls are exclusive to me or not low key escorts.  But, they tend to be lower volume at least.  I do get tested regularly.
2. I think sex with a connection is better.  And it tends to get better as you get to know someone.
3. The girls who I can have fun with out at dinner and in bed are better SBs in my mind.  I've had fun BCD arrangements, but it isn't as good.  Yes. I enjoy when people ask me how I got this hot young woman to date me.

Agree with netnoy.  I like the connection that only sugaring can bring (though I have had close to it with a provider). I enjoy understanding their perspective on things and because they are much younger appreciate how they view the world. They can also help me with technology lol. And while the sex isn't necessarily better compared to older women they do enjoy my mature and experienced skills.

My current SB has no expectations for a ppm when we travel. I am picking up all her expenses and we stay at nice places and do nice things. As for going out on a sugar date, well I don't pay extra for that. She gets her usual ppm. The only downside I've encountered is that if we get back super late from an evening out there isn't time for BCD, but I still give her the allowance. If it only happens once in a while I don't mind. It does mean I have to be careful not to plan events that get us back too late. I recently took her out to an art showing , then dinner but she had to get up early the next day to go on vacation so no time for BCD. She said she'd make it up to me next time and she sure did! So it all ended up fair. I think things work out in the wash in the end if you both respect each other and she isn't a gold digger.

Only you don’t get the BCD. 😊

I had made plans to take one of my SBs to a film festival last night.  She asked me if I was going to also invite one of my other sweeties?  So I told her since you've put the idea in my head, maybe I will.  Then I asked another SB to join us.  The evening went swimingly! The girls loved meeting each other, and I loved being out in public with 2 lovely young women!   First stop, a cafe for dinner.  Then the movies across the street.  Then back to the cafe for coffee, dessert and talk.  On the drive home I asked the one who drove with me if she saw that we got  few stares.  She said it makes sense, you're too old to be our Dad, and way too friendly to be our Grandpa!  Anyway, this was a purely platonic date and both girls understood there was no allowance expected or implied.  

 
As for the side question, I always mention my offer before she states her ppm.  It's so awkward when she starts the conversation with an ask that is purely aspirational and way unrealistic.  Then I offer my going rate but it makes me look cheap and she has to backtrack or dig in.  Not a good situation.  But when I make my offer first, she can accept, decline, or negotiate without losing face.

Im the exact opposite. I have them tell me first.  If it's delusional , I simply say it's too much for me.  Take care. Be safe. The other day a lady asked for 900. I gave her my standard  reply. She lowered to 600. She was negotiating against herself. Lol.

Looks like that's one side benefit of being ENM and fully disclosing all your concurrent relationships with each party.  

 
Does this set you up to suggest a repeat, and perhaps add s special dessert course to end the night?  

 
Life is good

 
The Cat

If only these girls were bi