it had been difficult to adjust to regular condoms again at my age. the only reason i have for using them is to prevent disease. condoms are irrelevant for me as a contraceptive device since, well, snip-snip. i shoot blanks.

anyway i found a partner willing to give female condoms a try. it was a great success. i even bagan to be able to get happy using a regula condom since we were mixing FCs/MCs 50-50%.

then some guy comes along and talks her out of using them as being unsafe. he cites the statistics in the wikipedia article below MC having a failure rate of 15% with a perfect use failure rate of 2%, while the FC has statistics like 21% for failure and 5% for failure with perfect use.

so my questions for you are to clarify are my attitudes reasonable?

1) aren't the perfect use failure rates for REPORTED not ACTUAL perfect use?

2) aren't the differences in failure rates  likely attributable to complexity of the FC device and care in use not the device itself? if your smart and careful your odds migh be better?

3) aren't the differences in failure rate irrelevant when there are other contraceptive means in place?

4) isn't it the case that there is no statistical basis for deciding that MCs are better than FCs at disease prevention?

5) in fact FCs may be superior at protecting the female from disease because it covers a larger surface area and there is less exposure of the female to the skin and semen of the male?

since my FC friendly partner was persuaded by the statistics to ban the use of FCs my condomitis has returned and now orgasm with intercourse using a MC has become impossible again. so i am asking these questions so you can correct me if i am wrong about what i expect your answers to be. if i'm right, i hope to cite your post.

my hope is that as a woman and as an authority i could cite your response in an ISO post on my local board.

Dear texcat,

If you take it upon yourself to "cite" my reply as some sort of reliable statistical data regarding the female condom, then you will be sorely mistaken. I am neither a specialist on the reported use of female condoms, nor the statistics thereof.  I get my data in the same places everyone else does - Wikipedia, journals (if someone pays me or pays for the journal articles, thank you), or mass media (however unreliable.)

It is A FACT that female condoms have higher failure rates in comparison to male condoms, based on incorrect use. The same goes for cervical caps, diaphragms and anything that is supposed to be inserted into the female cavity - it's just not as easily done as putting something on an appendage. Things can shift, move, not seal tightly - a minute loss of 100% coverage can result in transmission of diseases or fertilization. That one's a no-brainer and I think you do understand the issue.

Now, when you are discussing statistics, variables like "smart and careful" just don't enter into the equation. You would have to measure what "smart and careful" really means in terms of an operational definition and then correlate it with female condom use - don't think that one's been done, quite frankly.

Differences in failure rates are never seen as "irrelevant." Each contraceptive device is measured on its own merits and not dependent on the usage of something else, unless you're talking about the old standby with male condoms AND foam. To my knowledge, there hasn't been a study done on female condoms in conjunction with foam, but hey, I could be wrong. I'm certainly no STD prevention specialist, so maybe there is a study out there on precisely the combination of those two methods.

We could debate the finer points of various studies and statistics ad nauseam; however, I don't believe that's really the issue. For whatever reason (and there could be many, not just the one you're stating), your sex partner has decided she doesn't want to use a female condom. If she refuses to budge on the issue, then you have two choices: either persist with male condoms and orgasmic difficulties, or finding another sex partner who is willing to use the female condom.

I wonder more about "the other guy" - who is he and why does he have the final say over you in this matter,
The Love Goddess

there is the statistical data on the one hand and causal models on the other.

i accept that the statistical facts are that FCs have higher failure rates. what is interesting to me is the cause: is it the device itself? or the complexity? the most likely causal hypothesis is the complexity of the device, a barrier is a barrier....

the "perfect use" statistics are reported perfect use only, right? it''s not like an inspector/technician comes around and says "yep you put it on right!" correct?

for contraception doesn't the difference in contraceptive failure rates BECOME irrelevant if there is a superior contraceptive already measure in place? for instance vasectomy, tubal ligation, oral contraceptives. NOT foam good heavens! if you've already got something going that is much more effective contraception then the difference in statistics for sole use of MC or FC becomes irrelevant. but the other method would of course have to be superior like the ones listed, not foam.

as for the reason my partner has, i can only give the one she stated, the difference in statistics. anything further would be idle speculation on my part.

you may wonder more about "the other guy" but i would rather not. the reason he has more say over her with me is simple: she has an SO and also clients that are more important to her than myself. she identified her source as a male friend. so not for me to press further. my relationship with her is not THAT close that i would press to ID her source more specifically.

the one last Q: is it fair to say that since there are no statistical studies comparing disease transmission using FCs and MCs that it is improper to infer that there would be a difference in disease risk?

again, i am not trying to persuade my current friend to change her mind. i just feel that the inference that a percentage difference in contraception implies a difference in disease risk is unwarranted. causally one expects no difference and there are no statistical studies to show how that turns out in practice.

i will admit that as a hard science person i like to have causal explanations for statistically significant differences in data like failure rates. i'm a little concerned that my questions seem to be irritating. is there something i am missing? have i offended somehow?

-- Modified on 4/11/2010 9:46:07 PM

but it seems to say that there is a statistically non significant lower risk of STDs with a female condom.

thanks for the prod...

with all of this 'interaction' I certainly hope you got her #.

if you mean LG's number? she's made it clear that i can only worship her from afar!

if you mean my former FC friendly but now FC hostile friend? yep, i have her # too but the 3rd party SO or client making the calls issue indicates i ought to forget.

if you mean my current favorites? of course i have their numbers but... they've weighed in as opposed already so the topic is closed. i'll have to find my condomitis therapy elsewhere.

if you mean your favorite Ms Sophie who i know is FC friendly? she visits so rarely.... it would be best to work with someone local on a repeated basis to cure the problem.

if you mean a local girl who is FC friendly? i hope she reveals herself.

there... i think the vases are covered....

i just hope the article is enough to have some consider it.

I did not find the link to the article. Is this the W article cited?  (link below)

I'm sure that's all they care about.

BTW; favorites change.

I speculate that my FC friendly friend may have found the FC cumbersome rather than risky, but that is speculation.

Yes, favorites change. My current favorites are so much better for me in every way than the old regime. More fun, more sympatico, WAY less drama, just all around better stress reduction.....

I spoke with a lady friend about this recently, and she pointed out two difficulties, each of which she considers non-starters. The first is aesthetics. If she were to insert the thing prior to the commencement of activities, the appearance of all of that junk hanging out is an unacceptable visual distraction. The second problem is that if she were to wait until it was time to put it to use, she has to get up and leave the room to insert it. She said that there is no way she would attempt that in front of someone. Either way, though, it would be an absolute mood killer. She said that she tried them a couple of times prior to reaching these conclusions, so this is not just hypothetical to her.

shy about putting it on in front of me. Initially it was a game: let's make sure we're doing this right.

The advantage of it all was it was less physically demanding for her. Her concern about "risk" didn't appear until after I began to be successful with MCs.

Gradually the MC based condomitis returned.