I had fallen for a provider and I could not get up..

Well, she seemed like she needed and wanted me and her oral skills took me into orbit, so what more did I need? I was not happy in my marriage and she was the trigger for a divorce... and then...

I'm at a conference in Athens and there is a "hostess bar" (EUR100 drinks for the girl) 2 doors down the road. After the first night I ask her out for dinner. Second, she tells me that she owes EUR10000 to the traffickers who got her into Europe.

After that I am hooked... or in love.

This is truly a beautiful woman, sweet face, caramel skin and the nicest hands I have seen in ages. We have not had intercourse but I love her kisses. She tells me not to spend money in the club. She is either excited when we are together or she could make a good living in porn (damp garments tell a story). We've been txting for a week and she seems to care about me, family, even the soon to be ex-wife.

No, she hasn't insisted on money for her (though I paid for drinks in the club) and we are still in touch though I don't know when I will be back.

I'm sure that she wants her ticket out of her situation (who wouldn't) but how can I tell if that's all?

Her Honey Bear

Well, goldmund56,

First of all, I would suggest that you read Paulo Coelho's book "Eleven Minutes." There, you'll read the story from the prostitute's point of view. It's a very interesting story, based on a true account of a Brazilian woman who goes to Switzerland to work in the type of bar that you describe. She too falls in love with someone and things get very interesting.

We now return back to our regular programming:

If you want to save her from the traffickers and do a turn for mankind (and not your penis), then do it. Go to the bar, take her outside, if even for 30 seconds, have a taxi waiting, take her to the Greek police station, tell them that she has been trafficked into the country and that you refuse to leave until they do something about it. Also alert the embassy of the woman's home country. If she has been trafficked, they ought to do be able to do something about it. If no one wants to do anything, take her to your hotel room and keep her there. Go to the club owners and demand her passport. Make a ruckus and be sure to get the press to show up so that people will know that this is someone who has been trafficked illegally into this country. Who knows, maybe you'll singlehandedly blow the lid off some traffickers in Greece?

If for whatever reason she has access to her passport and the traffickers/slave owners haven't confiscated it, buy her a ticket to go to the United States. She may have to apply for a visa, but at least she'll have a contact name and address on hand to provide to the US embassy visa department. Alternatively, go with her. Let her know that you are dead serious in trying to get her out of her trafficking ordeal. As a last resort, if you have to bargain with the criminals, do it. Make sure you get 10,000 Euro in unmarked bills, put it in an envelope and demand the girl and her passport. And then call the Greek cops. In fact, get them in on it beforehand. You'll be a national hero in Greece and everyone will thank you for it. There, now the movie is over and we can all go back to our humdrum existence.

And you are asking if "that's all?" How is anyone supposed to know? If she really wants out of her situation, she'll tell you anything that will get her out of her situation. In addition, if she's telling you not to spend money in the club, how is she ever going to work off her 'debt' to the traffickers? Actually, forget about what she says and concentrate on yourself instead. Are you so much in love that you are willing to get her into the United States on a tourist visa, have her move in with you and marry you within 6 months time, and stay married to her for 2+ years so that she can get her permanent LPR (legal permanent resident) status confirmed by the US authorities? If you are, then go for it. If not, then just back off and chalk it up to her bewitching caramel skin and the nicest hands you've seen in ages.

And read the book, please,
The Love Goddess

Meet damsel in distress, fall in deeply in love at the slightest gesture on her part, and then do something really stupid.

Hey, you might also be interested in some of the many good investment opportunities available right now in Nigeria.  Check them out on the internet.  One bit of advice, however, make sure you're using a local minister as your point of contact, because that's your guarantee that they're legitimate and you don't want to fall for some sort of swindle- yes, however unlikely, it could happen.

Once you've confirmed you're emailing a minister and they tell you about all the sick children or enslaved women you'll be saving, just go to the bank and send them all your money.  Then sleep well at night knowing that your money went to such a good and noble cause.

But, if you decide instead to go back to Athens to help this poor woman, and I'm betting you will, make sure you hide several forms of ID on your person so the authorities will know where to ship your body after you're done trying to save her from her business partners.

Alternatively, you could just stay here and help the local economy.  There are plenty of providers on TER that would appreciate all your money, and it's just as easy to fall in love with one of them.  Just pick a provider at random, then fall in love with her when she opens the door and gives you a peck on the cheek.  I know you can do it if you try.

Can anyone tell me what the definition of the phrase "Tough Love" is?  It seems like an oxymoron to me, but what do I know?

Back to G2 ... um, remind me to PM you when I think I am falling for a provider.  A good old electronic *SLAP!* in the face can do wonders.

She says she has access to her passport. The hold is a threat to her family (I'm guessing that whoever got her out of Nigeria might be on the hook for the EUR10000 if she bolted, but what matters is that she believes it). Otherwise, the "take her to your hotel room and keep her there" would be a most attractive option, for various reasons upon which I won't elaborate, since this is not Penthouse.

And I will find the book.

What keeps me on the hook is how verbal she is in her text messages - again, if she's conning me she's a genius and should be writing novels, quite apart from winning an Oscar for faked arousal.

As for "are you so much in love?" the strangest thing is that my enthusiasm for the hobby has evaporated for the first time in years. My soon-to-be-ex-wife would larf her ass off.

Perhaps fortunately I can't do much about it yet, since the divorce has to go through. So there's some kind of cooling-off period there. I left Athens a week ago and am now headed back to the US.

Thanks, G2, nonetheless. I wonder sometimes if I'm the emotional equivalent of the teenage Navy recruit who wants to marry the first Filipina bar girl who says she loves him. And coming out of 30 years of control and emotional abuse can leave a person a little stressed, and perhaps not quite himself.

And finally, LG - I think I love you. Will you marry me? (I keed, I keed.)

All kidding aside, however, just the Nigerian issue is super-complex. Not to cast aspersions on all Nigerians, but I was once the intended victim of criminals outside of Lagos. A psychologist friend of mine sent me an email from his Yahoo account, telling me that he had been robbed and that the hotel where he was staying for a "conference" demanded cash payment immediately. I decided to follow up on it and phoned the so-called "hotel." The number belonged to a cell way outside the city center (I checked). I proceeded to give the guy on the phone a ration of extreme harshness over the phone and hung up. Later, my poor friend who was finally located safely in his home town told me that these individuals had hijacked his Yahoo email account and had spammed his entire address list with requests for cash on his behalf!

So...I'm not saying that all Nigerians are criminals or that this woman has not been trafficked, but...I would probably engage a little more in finding out exactly how the trafficking happened. I would also contact the Nigerian embassy in Athens to find out how serious this problem actually is. The Nigerian embassy in DC told me that there are so many scams perpetuated by Nigerian nationals that should be avoided, both inside and outside of Nigeria. As to the faked arousal, well...the arousal may be real, in the hopes that you will carry her off to a marriage of material security.

Now, having filed for divorce is no impediment to your inviting her to the United States for 6 months. As long as she's here on a tourist visa, no one can stop you or her from having fun. BUT IS IT WORTH IT? IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?

PS - Yep, I did marry the Saint twice, once in the US and once in Venice, Italy, just for the thrills of it. So I understand if the city lights of Athens played a romantic part in your story!

The cooling period sounds good,
The Love Goddess

Anyone have any ideas as to whether this is a common/known scam or not?

Obviously it could well end in handing over ten grand in Euros in an envelope, and seeing neither it nor the lady ever again. And anyone suckered by this would nor be likely to publicise it.

The embassy is a good idea, and I'll also check out groups that deal with trafficking.

Is that from experience? I'd be interested if so.

G2 - I was thinking about it and the pattern does not quite work. Damsel 1 (my American ATF) was not in distress when I first crossed the "I love you, [name here]" threshold - she was driving a Mercedes and headed a small gang of providers sharing a nice apartment for work.

These are the words from her that make me wonder...

"Being with you is the highlight of my day, there's nothing like it! It's like being on top of the world. I love you more than you think."

"Your kiss is expert, seeking, sensual and oddly tender. Honey your lips is gentle and possessive and you means the world to me."

"That sunday we were in your hotel room together, i like the way your hands were on my shoulders, rubbing, stroking and palpating; your fingers went more deeply, more provocating into my flesh"

"Yeah when your hand cupping the rounded fullness of my breast, my head spun as your touch sent spirals of ecstasy cavorting round my body, then i knew i was lost"

What do you think, LG? Does it read like one too many romance novels (assuming she gets and reads them in English) or someone expressing her own sexuality?

Much less, she knows how to use a semi-colon properly.

anyway.

I think the origin of tough love was parents who came to the end of the rope and decided to the best thing to do was stop enabling their kid's serious substance abuse issues.

So the idea is when the cops call for 99th time the parents refuse to bail the kid out, in the hope that a stay jail might produce a change of behavior. Or they just throw their kid out of the house to stop the stealing and lying, etc.

It's making difficult decisions with someone's long term best interests in mind after realizing that helping them is actually doing more harm than good, with the hope that maybe if they bottom out it could be the 1st step on the road to recovery.

I am sure someone else could come but with a more articulate definition, but that's what I think it means.

tc

Honestly, I can't tell if you are having a little fun with us or if you are serious about all this.  I have to assume you are serious, so I will add my two-bit opinion with that in mind.

After re-reading your posts on this thread, I instinctively find myself saying, "This guy is in WAY over his head."  The combination of the dual (dueling?) provider heart-throbs and the allusion to a relationship of "30 years of control and emotional abuse" are enough to make me think you need to find your own emotional and psychological footing before you go riding off to save ANY damsel.  And when you do feel you are secure with your own stability enough to venture out, I would humbly suggest that you not take on such a huge dragon as an international sex-trafficking ring.

The final straw that broke my silence was reading your quotes of her words to you.  The cynical side of me immediately reacted with, "This reads like a slightly awkward translation of a bad romance novel," not like the true expression of heart-felt emotions.  Words such as: Palpating, Provocating, and Cavorting, while all technically correct are also slightly out of context.  Also, even if she was using english as a second language, why would she reach for such 25 cent words, when the 10 cent versions are easier and more appropriate?

What is that saying? "There but for the grace of god, go I."  I have been a fool for love in the past, but I have learned through a couple of bumps to try to allow my rational instincts as much of a voice in my decisions as I do my emotional ones.

I wish you luck with your situation.  May you find both yourself and a true partner.

Cyclist,

I have to confess, I was being slightly facetious when I asked for the definition of 'tough love.'  I simply felt I had seen an electronic version of it swiftly applied by G2 to the OP.

On another note, isn't the word 'facetious' interesting?  One of only two words in the english language that has all five vowels appear only once and in their alphabetical order.

I can't off-hand remember what the other one is.

I've been all over the world several dozen times on business, that's why these stories on TER all sound so familiar to me.  I've heard the Japanese version, the Korean version, the Dutch version, the Mexican version... someone stop me before I get to, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, France and the UK.

Maybe that's the emerging behavior pattern I should have referenced in my response.  Below is an example of why It's so important to keep your wits about you in matters of love in general, and in these sort of situations in specific.

This actually happened to me.  I had an overnight liason with an escort in Seoul (for less than what we pay for an hour, you get the whole night at your hotel).  The guys from my company took me out for some fun on my last night in-country.  After the escort and I enjoyed the night together, I gave her a nice tip, bought her breakfast, gave her cab fare and sent her on her way home.  As the cab drove out of sight, I quickly forgot all of her proclamations of love for me and how much she wanted to be with me, how I made her fell like no other man, how she wanted to come to America and take care of me etc.  I go to the airport, fly home and that's that.

Well, not exactly.  She finds out where I worked by going through the Mamasan's records (the local Korean guys I was with were known to her).  She has a message waiting for me at the switchboard in my office in LA when I get back to work.  I ignore it, even though I find it disturbing.  Then she gets past the switchboard and gets my LA work number somehow.  She starts calling me at the office and leaving messages about how much she loves me and wants to marry me.   I'm single, so I laugh it off, but I'm worried enough that I start having serious conversations with my Korean counterparts in the office.  They make some calls to Seoul and things seem to be OK.

Then a couple months go by and I fly back to Seoul on business-  there's a message waiting for me at the front desk when I check in late on a Saturday night, and I didn't even know what hotel I was going to be staying at 2 days earlier!  I couldn't imagine who it was, but I quickly found out that my stalker had called the company's headquarters in Seoul (a Global Top 50 Corporation) and blackmailed the Korean guys to get my identity and travel plans (she threatened to tell their wives that their husband's frequent business dinners included fucking escorts).

So now my one night of fun has crossed the Pacific twice, landed in both the Seoul headquarters and LA subsidiary of my company, followed me to the hotel, and  was leaving phone messages for me when I checked in my room.  I called her from my room and told her she had to leave me alone and I didn't love her.  She cried and told me she loved me over and over!  Then she wanted to come over and see me.  I had to change hotels.

It got so bad I finally had to call my best buddy in Korea and tell him he needed to take care of this situation in whatever way he could so that careers and marriages didn't start getting ruined by this whacky woman.  Had I been married, my marriage would have been destroyed.  And frankly, had it not been for the fact the Korean guys at the office took me to the bar where this escort worked in the first place, you probably could have thrown my career as an executive on the fire as well.

Now, I am far from good looking, and I was so exhausted I didn't even fuck her that well.  But desperate women in desperate situations will do insane things- and this woman wasn't even trying to shake me down for money or blackmail me, she just wanted to get out of Korea and get married before she was too old (she was 28)!

So when I hear all the guys on this board rationalizing, putting common sense aside and imagining all sorts of dreamy scenarios with women they barely know and when the facts don't support any of it, it just boggles my mind!  You don't know who these women are!!  They may be sweethearts, or they may be the pretty face that the Russian mafia is hiding behind.  My stalker was the sweetest woman in the world until she went psycho.

I'm really sorry if I've become the Erotic Highway nag on this subject, but I just can't sit silent when I see otherwise smart men do stupid things because they've lost control of their emotions and common sense.  The consequences can be severe, as I found out.  And frankly, I don't know what the guys in Korea had to do to make psycho chick go away, but I can assure you, I never put myself in that situation again.  Your job, marriage, family, wealth, career and reputation are just too important to lose over some sob story that may or may not be true.

And guys, do you really, actually think any woman develops sincere feelings for you, me or any other man on this board after just a brief encounter?  Of course they don't!  So then you have to ask yourself, what are her true intentions and what are the risks to you of getting involved.  I've seen educated, professional men that wouldn't rent a car without the supplemental insurance, put their entire lives into the hands of someone they've only known for a few hours.  It's just insane and you guys are putting your heads on the chopping blocks for the illusion of love with a stranger.

Men of TER, please ask yourself is it really worth gambling everything you've worked for because some pretty woman you just met whispers in your ear?  Are we really that desperate to be loved that we'll throw all caution to the wind and follow our dicks where ever they may lead us, even if it's off the cliff?  Isn't TER here so that lives don't have to be ruined for the purpose of a casual encounter?

I don't think I can make this speech one more time, so please let this be the reminder you think of every time you're tempted to step into traffic because there's a shiny object around a woman's neck across the street.

I guess there is a rational calculation involved. If I was stuck in indentured servitude, being pawed by chainsmoking Greeks all night and every night, what would I say or not say, do or not do, to get out?

A couple of years of marriage would seem like a reasonable trade for freedom and a green card - even if it's not just a $15K cash-and-dash scam that she's run six times this month.  

Thanks much, G2, for that well targeted bucket of icewater.

And I do mean that.

She asked me to send money via Western Union (amid many a sweet word).

I texted back that I needed to pay the CC bills from the club and save up for the EUR10K to get her out.

Still waiting for a txt back.

May be some time.

I'm only slightly joking.

Well written, G2.  Thank you from all past, present, and future self-delusional, love-sick, men that read this board.

Big Daddy G.,

I've read through the multiple, elaborate posts, and concur with most of the fella's.  First and foremost you made the wise decision to get out of Dodge, and think the process through.  

Though, the Pretty Woman aspect is inspiring, and her "abilities" may be memorable, at the end of the day, you'll be getting into a heap of challenges, that may be quite overwhelming, and regrettable.  

The WU Wire for the 10K is the initial "red flag", once that money hit's the wires, with the end recipient waiting, you're SOL. It will not be this gal, nor her handlers who pick up the wire, the end recipient is just the carrier, most have no knowledge of the cash they're picking up, and/or why, they make a decent commission on the pick up as the courier.  

Just because you pay the 10K, if this gal is an earner, or has just become one, they'll not allow her to go anywhere.  That's not their business model, their business is to make money off of trafficking women, and the more the better.  Any connection to the home country, will continue, and be utilized as a milking tool, for further funds to be paid.  

LG, said it best, if you believe you can get in with some Honest, or relatively honest cops in country, then do so, I'd speak to the Embassy, they're going to recommend not getting involved and making a report.  Who knows maybe you'll find a maverick out there, though few and far between in the International Services Division of this great Nation (they'll normally partake of these places, as well).  

From my Global experience, normally these trafficking fella's have paid up with the local authorities, and they get piece of the action.  (Watch the movie Taken, give you an idea of the hypocrisy).  Most of the authorities are aware, and unfortunately due to past or continual, practice, or lack of relative moxie, continue on with the status quo, because it ain't their problem.  

Think fondly, and let it be.  However, if you've got the cash of Ross Perot (Where Eagles Dared), or some other gifted financial baron, drop me a line, I'm always up for a bit of International intrigue, and know some rumbling, bumbling, stumbling fellas in the area, who enjoy the occasional challenge.

I'd second that.   Maybe we need a section in the Newbie manual for "potential dangers."  Here's a short list:

1. LE
2. STDs
3. Theft
4. Future background checks (pre-employment and other types)
5. Getting blacklisted wrongfully
6. Stalkers  (this one fits here)

Anyway, sorry to be negative.  I am new here and am glad I read this post.  Thanks.

I just got around to reading the book - which in parts felt like my life story, particularly given that the artist's age was reduced from the reality (according to the end-notes). But then, I guess it is fiction. And if I ever go back to Geneva I will never look at the Jet d'Eau in exactly the same way.