When having sex with your wife deteriorates to the point where it grosses you out and you can't even get an erection- is there any hope at all of reconciliation?

I have long been at the point G2 described in the marriage counselor thread below-  have so little interest left in the marriage that counselling would only be a disservice and if I were seeking counselling now it would be mis-motived and only to use the counselor to help push the marriage in to divorce.  Why still in it everyone asks-  though not a valid reason on some people's eyes, I do want to wait until last child is off to college which is not so much longer away that I can't hold on until then.

Our marriage had been sexless many years but for whatever reason, my wife tried to revive that part of our non-relationship the other night.  My little head had no interest at all, and the less it was interested, the more aggressively she tried and the more aggessively she tried, the more repulsed I was by her and could not get my mind off the aggression, her weight, her breath- all the negatives.  Worsened that much more by all the wonderful hobby experiences.

So, my question is:  should for some reason my heart change and I do elect counselling to try to restore a relationship- can the physical repulsion be turned around too or is that likely to be irreparable?

The one interesting outcome of the experience is a new increased respect and sympathy for any provider who can do what she does for a man she is not attracted in any way to.

-- Modified on 5/13/2008 7:05:42 AM

-- Modified on 11/15/2008 11:22:23 AM

Dear guiltyascharged2,

Your question is,"should for some reason my heart change and I do elect counselling to try to restore a relationship- can the physical repulsion be turned around too or is that likely to be irreparable?"

First of all, if you want to lead an authentic life and not engage in existential "bad faith," i.e. not LIE TO YOURSELF,' then you OWE it to YOURSELF to tell your wife that you no longer are turned on by her - for whatever reason - and authentically accept the consequences and the responsibility for listening to her reactions. You are still living with her "until the last child is off to college;" hence, you are using her presence for a purpose. Whether that purpose is altruistic or not is a different story - my suspicion is that you still get some use out of her, although what use is not entirely clear from your posting. In any event, you need to tell her [politely, of course] how you feel about her weight, breath, etc. so that she can internalize the message, process it and either a) do nothing, or b) do something about it. If you don't, then your lack of honesty and willingness to help your partner realize how she is affecting you is part of a matrix that will propel you into more and more lies - toward yourself. Lying to yourself is a complete waste of human existence; as to your kid(s,) I can only tell you that children are barometers of marriages and they surely notice when something has changed. Ask your kid in 20 years and s/he'll tell you what s/he observed. Whether or not that is affecting his/her view of marriage in general and laying down a psychological matrix, that's a different story. But I'm not a big believer in "maintaining" for the children's sake. If spousal relations are impaired enough, children feel impacted. And again, you are teaching your children a valuable lesson in honesty and self-respect if you make a break rather than fight, sulk, etc. But that depends on the state of your general relations and we're not talking about that in this posting.

Now this: You are asking for a prediction of how counseling will go and if the "physical repulsion can be turned around." Delivering such a prediction is impossible. Again, you need to be authentic toward yourself and your own feelings. WHY do you want to be in counseling? Because if you want to get your physical feelings back for your wife, the quickest way for that to happen is for you to engage intimately with her, communicate with her very deeply about your feelings (even if they are negative at the moment) and engage in work TOGETHER to change those feelings. That's what this therapist tells you, and that's what someone you'll be paying $150-200/hour will tell you. And if you're willing to do that kind of emotional repair work - which is NOT EASY - then MAYBE you'll have a chance to turn things around. MAYBE. There certainly are no guarantees. But just going to "counseling" and being in a room with your wife and a third person won't do much. The work happens outside the therapy room and it has to happen on a daily basis. And it's very difficult if one holds so much negativity for the other party.

Your "sympathy for any provider" and the reasons why, is a little misplaced. Women's sexuality is very different from men's. Women can have wild and wonderful sex with men to whom they are not in the least bit physically attracted. For a man, that's nearly an impossibility. For women, it can work just fine. Providers - at least the ones you find on TER - have freely chosen to continue their work. They enjoy a highly sexual response, and while they may not orgasm with every man, they find the physical sensations of being near a man's body very pleasant. If they start feeling the way you do for your wife, then they get out of the business...unless they are desperate, of course. But in general, providers (and women) can perform just fine and feel fairly neutral toward a man who isn't their physical cup of tea, whereas male sexuality is much more visual and depends on much deeper visual stimulation to go into gear.

Drop the guilt, take responsibility for your feelings, communicate them and start the work toward psychological freedom,

the Love Goddess

Thank you for such a frank reply.  If I wanted to address the dishonesty in my life-  I presume I'd be looking at lies I tell myself about why I'm still there, won't leave until a certain point, and what 'use' I'm getting from her and the current situtuation;  and also the fundamental dishonesty of not being open about my feelings and living the lie.

Any other common ones I'm missing that I should be looking at?  Finally, do you see individual therapy as useful in a situation like I'm describing to help me through the dishonesties?

Thanks

Good for you guiltyascharged2,

Individual therapy is ALWAYS useful in terms of personal growth - provided that you and the therapist are equally clear on the goals. As for "common ones," I would hesitate to specify. The beauty of being solo in the therapy room is that the in-DEPTH focus is on you as the individual; hence, there will be no generalizations, but you will be getting down to the very idiosyncratic nitty-gritty of your personality, your actions and your decisions - which are unique to you.

So yes, go for it as soon as possible. The truth shall set you free, I promise,

the Love Goddess

Hobbying for me- while an initial relief and an exciting substitute for looking at the issues I need to face-- it has ultimately only made the issues glaring and turned in to an avoidance substitute for the relationship I'd really like to have in my life.  Time to go to work.

Self-deception is part of the human condition. I find it humorous when someone tells me how honest they are with themselves, when in fact they are not open to feedback from another. What's ironic is that much of our self-deception is merely an attempt to obstruct the view we already have of ourselves, which seems too ugly (monsterous) to live with. A good therapist will help bring the view of one's true self back, but with a much more human image than the one we feared and hid from.

-- Modified on 5/13/2008 3:15:59 PM

It seems that you complained about her weight, breath, and agression.   Weight is not something that someone can do something about immediately.  Breath can be improved easily if you know what to do.  Perhaps the agression was your view of the fact that she wanted you but you had no interest in her.

What type of woman do you normally see with providers?  Are they younger than you and your wife?  Are they spinners?  Perhaps you have an issue with anybody who is larger, and while that is fine, you need to express that to your wife.  If they are all younger women, then perhaps you are worried about getting old, and are trying to relive your youth with younger women.  Like Boy George says: "You are only as old as who you feel!"

Are any of the escorts you see anything like your wife in terms of any physical or mental attribute?   If not, then things are probably not going to be salvagable at all.

You must have been physically attracted to her at one time.  Why has that attraction gone?  What has changed?   Is it something she can change?

How is the relationship outside the bedroom?  Are you friends with each other except for sex, or is that part also gone too?  If so, there is probably nothing you can do to make anything better.   The issue as mentioned by LG is that kids see parents that are not getting along, and it will affect them in life.  If you are not having a good relationship with your wife on any level, then divorcing is probably better for the kids because then they will not see two people who completely dislike each other always combative towards each other.

As I was reading his post I had so much in mind that I wanted to comment on.  Then I read your response and you said it all plus more.  
When my one long term relationship was coming to an end I would cram myself into the very furthest edge of my bed away from my boyfriend of six years.  I was so repulsed by him.  I can remember the tremors that would crawl across my skin at the feel of his breath on my shoulder, or his sweat dripping onto my skin.  Kissing him was torture and sex was sickening.
But at one time I had been in love with him.  We had just invested in a one year lease on a nice condo, a new car, furniture, etc.. we were completely involved in a life together.  We had one daughter already and I was in the early stages of pregnancy with our second.  Some how, though, by and by, I began to hate him.
Unlike GAC2 though, I needed to be honest with him.  I was completely aware of my feelings and I had no trouble owning them.
I told him I that I wasn't sure why it happened but that I was no longer physically attracted to him.  I told him that I did not want to keep "trying".  I did not want to salvage our relationship.  I just wanted him to go away.  
(I wasn't involved with anyone else at the time and haven't been since then.  I just knew that I didn't want to be with him.)
We had a long night of talk.  He was very hurt.  But in the end we broke up.
Because of my honesty we were able to work it out through talking.  And we parted as friends instead of enemies.
He was able to make some very necessary changes in his life as a single man and now he is making another woman extremely happy.
And I... well...  I was able to realize that all of the negative things that I had accused him of were simply a cover up for my own unwillingness to accept the fact that I simply did not want to be in a relationship.  I have been able to step back and take a long look at myself and work on the things about myself that needed work.
I have also learned that we attract into our lives the very people that we are most like.  When I looked at him and all I could see was the "ick"..  I realized that all I was putting out into the Universe was "ick"...
I knew I needed to back off and work on myself.  
Also, I gave him the freedom he needed as well.
Life is better for me and for him and I can't help but think that my children aren't the better for it with two happy parents.. even though the parents aren't together.

WOW. THATS THICK. I THINK BEING INTIMATE IS  PART OF BEING IN A RELATIONSHIP AND IF ITS TO THE POINT UR USING THE WORD DISGUSTED THATS FUCKED. SERIOUSLY ITS SAD THAT ITS A RELATIONSHIP THAT DIDNT WORK OUT AND I THINK EVERYONE WHOS BEEN WITH SOMEONE FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME WOULD SAY THAT YOU WOULD BE SAD TO NOT BE WITH THEM ANYMORE BUT SOMETIMES ITS GOOD TO AT LEAST TAKE A BREAK TO SEE WHAT YOU REALLY WANT.  BUT IF YOU REALLY LOVE HER AND WANT TO MAKE IT WORK SEEK SOME COUNSELING AND MAYBE IT COULD EVEN BE SOMETHING THAT YOURE GOING THRU PERSONALLY ABOUT A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ISSUE...NEVER KNOW...JUST A THOUGHT.