Wow, is that nuts!
While it is apparently the case that most providers on the Internet do not fit the mold of the streetwalker with a pimp, there are exceptions -- I've met a few who have husbands or boyfriends who know of and encourage their work; in some cases the escorts effectively support them.
LG, what's the motivation behind this? Why do escorts find "security" with someone who's apparently using/abusing them? While I know that you can't tell us about any particular escort, my question is really aimed at what the professional learning (as opposed to the speculation) is on this subject.
Merci beaucoup.
I think it's difficult to generalize to a particular category of profession, Turkana,
But of course, in any situation of dependency, there has generally been an underlying level of either psychological or physical abuse in childhood. I don't just see this in escorts, I see this in many women who clearly are dependent emotionally/financially on their husbands/s.o.'s. There are some very successful women out there who 'deliberately' incapacitate themselves to a certain point, in order to feel 'protected' and 'contained' by their boyfriends and husbands.
The professional literature is filled with accounts of women and their dependency issues, particularly when it comes to domestic violence studies. As to pimps, there are definitely issues of abuse and control involved. Most studies use street prostitutes as their subjects, but I would venture to say that situations where a woman is willingly controlled by her man are endemic in all walks of life.
As to your question regarding "security," I don't think it's as much a feeling of protection, as it is a deeply rooted feeling of annihilation and non-existence when alone, and the warding off such feelings by being in a relationship with almost any man - even if he is abusive.
When you look at abused children, you will see that they frequently defend the abusing parent against the world. This goes back to the basic notion that children do need someone to cling to - for obvious reasons - and that negative attention is better than no attention at all. It goes back to a fear of being abandoned and feeling utterly alone, almost to the point of non-existence. And if someone has been abused and neglected as a child, you can just imagine that his/her self-esteem and feeling of value is almost nil. Hence, such individuals will frequently gravitate to any partner that will have them. Often, such a partner is equally low in self-esteem and emotional ego strength, but perhaps expresses his/her deficit in the form of control and abuse over the other. 'Complementary dysfunction' is what I would call it. And of course, when you confront a woman with dependency issues, she will often rationalize and have a perfectly plausible explanation for her choices.
Sad but true,
the Love Goddess
-- Modified on 6/24/2007 10:57:04 PM
I have never supported a man and am an escort. In this age of "feminism" where in the real world I have often earned more than most males, is it really that cut and dry? Can we leave sex out of this. I am not saying you are wrong. But why is it abusive for a woman who loves escorting to support a man where a man who hates his work, or is a crminal is doing what he is "supposed" to be doing by supporting a woman? Many women support men voluntarily. (not me, but I have been questioning this lately)
The answer was in response to the "use/abuse" situation posited by "Turkana," not a question of two working adults who enter into voluntary agreements that have been duly considered and are free of the "use/abuse" aspects as stated.
He is also asking about research in the area. When discussing any type of research it's usually done on a quantitative basis, not qualitatively. Hence, in terms of "use/abuse" and "pimp" factors, the contributing psychological factors in the sex workers studied did indeed bring forth childhood abuse and neglect aspects. This doesn't include ALL escorts, particularly those who contribute to family finances without their husbands "pimping" them.
Mercifully, I don't think any of you ladies qualify,
the Love Goddess
-- Modified on 6/25/2007 11:57:49 PM
LG, i'm sure that to you anything i have to say will seem like rationalizations, however many of the things you touched on hit home for me (tho perhaps not in the way you think).
my Husband is not my "pimp", however he supports and encourages my providing, and he also helps me along in the process by helping me to screen potential clients. all of the money i earn goes to him, however this is not to "support" him (my monthly income is less than 1/3 of his), it is because we have some traditional values and believe in the Husband being the head of the house and taking sole responsibility for such matters. like many housewives of times past, i receive a weekly allowance, and this is money i can do whatever i please with.
in all key ways...emotionally, spiritually, financially...i am very much dependent on my Husband, always have been. this dependence is part of the structure of our relationship, which is not an abusive one but an old-fashioned one of female in natural submission to Male. those are our beliefs, therefore that is the way we live. He is not replaceable...i was never the type to be with any man rather than being alone. i gave myself to my Husband because it was only he who touched the very core of me. were something to happen to him to take him away from this life, i would not seek out another.
it's funny because much like homosexuality decades ago, psychologists would label many of the elements of our consensual, happy, fulfilling relationship as disorders and dysfunctions. dependency, control, pain, discipline...these things are viewed by many as universally unacceptable and symbols of some deeply rooted psychological issue. however it needs to be told that for some (a great many actually) it is simply living and loving as we were intended.
Wow, is that nuts!
Have you had the chance to watch "Big Love"? Your explanations follow those of the story line. Head of household, ie. head of clan. Free thinking and love can coexist. I do not judge your actions or your relationship. It may be better than mine. I do question the idea of "natural female submission". I do understand the Master -Submissive relationship. But the assumption of natural "female" submission I believe has been laid to rest decades ago.
Wow I couldn't have put it any better.
My wife (a provider) and I were discussing this in regards to homosexuality in the past and how societal norms dictate what is and is not acceptable.
LG, and Turkana, thanks for the post.
I happen to be one of the very people that you speak of LG.
I was physically abused in childhood,as well as
emotionally abused, I have been in and out of
threapy for years, and I have
worked hard to improve my self esteem
But there is still remainders of that abuse, that
lingers with me.
All of my close relationships, such as my past
marriage, and every love relationship since, have
had me emotionally abused. Fact is, that the few
providers that I have had closess with, have
ended up gaming, and abusing me, Names will not be
mentioned, as the fact is, that it is a system
and I have had to take responsibilty for my part
in the system.
It hurts like hell, to love someone deeply, and have them mess with my emotions, and beat up on
me emotionally, by ignoring me, withholding affections, not following thru on assurances,
and on and on.
I no longer trust myself emotionally when attracted to a woman, because each time I have been in a love relationship, it ends with me
running out, because I could no longer endure the
extreme emotional pain of the relationship.
I have had a lot of anger toward my past lovers
for there abusive behavior, when I treated them
so well, with love and affections, and as usual
I only get lies, head games, and anger directed
at me.
Most recently, I have had to buck up and make a
commitment to myself to keep my distance from
still yet another well known provider, who basically has been fucking with my head, and
sharing her misery with me, as opposed to the
loving and sincere gestures that I have made to
her often since our first meeting.
LG, answer me this, is the abuser, controller in
the relationship, aware of him or Herself?
and her actions and affects upon the abused?
I need to know this answer, as it will help me to
be angry, so I can let go of my lost hope.
Don't worry, as I am able to control my anger quite well, and stay rational and focused upon
working toward getting me away from the other half
of the equation.
I have deep seated trust issues, and have a very
difficult time trusting women that I am attracted to, because I always select those that read me
like a book, and then the games and emotional
abuse begin, at which time, I have to go to my
support people, (friends, family, ) to seek their
views on what I have gotten myself into once
again, and then rely upon them further to help
me to extract myself emotionally away from my
attachment to my tormentor.
I guess that you could say, that I much the same
as those escorts who need a pimp.
But I know that I will not allow myself to hand
over control of my life to anyone EVER!
But I do desire to love and trust a woman
in a close relationship, and have this returned
to me.
Thanks
Trooper2
Dear Trooper2,
In answer to your question if the "abuser/controller is aware of his/her actions and their effects on the abused?" It depends on the level of insight in the abuser/controller. Most abusive individuals have some form of character disorder. With this, I mean that they could be of a few "main" classifications: antisocial personality disorder, meaning "sociopathic," or narcissistic personality disorder, meaning "without empathy." Naturally, people can be a mixture of both. In any case, abusers generally have poor self-insight and are not able or willing [in the case of the antisocial types] to acknowledge their abusive actions. A narcissist can completely humiliate and denigrate a person without any thoughts of how the other person feels at all.
An interesting thing about character disorders is that they are very difficult to "cure," and that these traits generally are lifelong patterns. Another fact is that many abusers/controllers have been extremely abused themselves in childhood, and so have appropriated the behavior of THEIR original abuser in order to "ward off" any further abuse and to control their environment by bullying, emotionally manipulating or physically abusing those who place their trust in them.
These are very schematic classifications, and if you are in therapy, your therapist can probably provide more detailed answers in your session.
For now, I hope that you continue your therapy and surround yourself with people who do not take advantage of your sensitive nature. Building defenses without walling oneself off is a difficult thing. If you can find support in a group of people who understand and who can act fairly and lovingly toward you WITHOUT COMPENSATION, that would be a promising situation for the future.
Hope it helped,
the Love Goddess
LG, your reply to this subject is so "perfect". It is unbelievable . I enjoy reading all of your replies on this board and think what you say and how you comment regarding some of the most touchy subjects men/women ask are of the upmost respectul and very professional comments ever.
Thank you for being you and such a valuable part of TER discussion board.
-Layla
Whilst I agree with what you say, it does not go into the subject to any real depth. I feel personally that it is related in a way to sado/masochism. Which obviously could be the cause of the initial abuse. So you have the initial abuser making another potential abuser. This area is so emotive that most people tend to shy away from any real introspection.
I for one am a very successful escort with a husband. I have been married for 9 years. My husband has a job and supports us of his own merit. I chose to become an escort to:
1. Dig us out of debt.
2. Provide a better way of life.
3. Save for our futures.
4. Contribute to my family.
My husband knows what I do but he does not "encourage" it. We don't discuss it. I do not look at it as me supporting him or him using me. If we had to stand on his pay alone we could but it would be rough. I see my work as something I am good at, like doing and it provides my family with the stability that I want them to have.
This was my decision. My husband had no part in okaying it or encouraging me to do it.
Based upon the sequential context of your reply it seems that you decided to become an escort after you were married. As such there was an explicit decision on your part to become a provider and seemingly an implicit decison on his part to accept your decision in terms of not letting this be a cause of ending your relationship.
Please do not get me wrong as I'm not casting judgment and I think it is wonderful if you have a solid and loving relationship and marriage. However on some level your husband does in fact '...have a part in okaying' what you do. Perhaps not in a literal sense of granting you permission to escort but certainly in terms of accepting your decision and not letting it be a reason to end your marriage.
It is clear to me that you have a strong commitment to your family and its future. But it seems to me that when spouses accept the decisions of their partners that they are at least tacitly 'okaying' these choices. Just my opinion...
-- Modified on 6/25/2007 12:46:18 PM
Well yes it would be okaying it. I would not say he enjoys the fact that I do it but he also does not say "Hey babe can you stop doing that."
I guess it comes down to the fact that we love eachother irregardless of anything. He loves me. I love him. He's my other half and I'm his. We have a very loving relationship.
The hobby is a business to me. It's something I enjoy doing but there is a goal in mind and there is a reason why I do it. I could do alot of other things but not make as much in the same amount of time. That's been gone over a thousand times.
When men say they want a fantasy that's what they get. They are with an entirely different side of me when I am "working". Granted, I am still that way at home in bed but still...they are with a fantasy girl and that's how it should be.
I find this subject fascinating as well as incomprehensible and it is refreshing to hear this issue being discussed so freely on this board. Wow!
I actually posted this same question on another board recently, but was mostly blasted for daring to even ask such an invasive question. Don't let this go to your heads, folks, but it appears we have a different class of people on this board.
I wanted to know if the husband condoned the practice of his wife having sex with other men or if he opposed it, but merely tolerated it because she found the lifestyle exciting.
I still don't understand it, but I think it is driven purely by economic necessity. How does the guy find the level of detachment to not care?
Is it a good thing or a bad thing to be so detached in the first place?
The quest for understanding continues.
We do process all sorts of questions in-depth around here, no prejudice given. In answer to your questions: If the detachment is a defense mechanism, then it is not "organic" and we would wonder why it arose in the first place. It could be that many years later, the man's honest feelings would surface, and he would experience regret, shame and guilt - or nothing.
Since you are Tarzan, you may enjoy this: Most evolutionary studies point to the fact that jealousy has an adaptive function, and that mainly, it is to protect the male (human or other primate) from being cuckolded. If homo sapiens, with his neocortical development and reasoning capacities has chosen to override the jealousy function, then it must be for some purpose - and as you concluded, it may very well be for economic necessities. In that case, a more prominent adaptive function arises - the outright feeding and protection of the progeny necessitates extraordinary acts such as being silent as the female "forays for food" in a series of short term matings. Particularly since the matings do not result in extra offspring [we hope!] the male may use his higher-order psychological defenses and "compartmentalize" and "rationalize." Hence, we don't view it as "a good thing or a bad thing," we view the behavior on the part of the male as "adaptive to the situation" - which is something you already appear to have done in your conclusion.
Welcome to our bunch, Tarzan9,
the Love Goddess
...Tarzan9, did you ever consider that perhaps the Husband may not be "detached" or even driven by financial necessity, but may actually ENJOY the fact that his wife is a provider...find it appealing, erotic, exciting, hot, etc.??
believe it or not this is true for some of us, it is certainly the case for my Husband and i. He has always longed to have a mate/love of his life who was also a "slut" available for the physical use of other men at his control. and that is the key word really...control. this is not something i'm doing on my own, and my Husband "tolerates" it, it is something we came up with together, and something we continue to work on together. He helps me screen potential clients, and gives me advice and insight from the male perspective. and of course he has the satisfaction of knowing his beloved wife is serving and pleasing men the way he expects me to. the financial side only adds more eroticism to it all, i am not merely a slut but a whore as well, this fact turns my Husband's crank quite nicely. 
Lilli makes an interesting and infrequently articulated point. And it's an excellent one.
For the men who are NOT detached from these activities, but who derive a positive benefit from this activity on the part of a wife or SO, it may simply be a more radical example of a man whose wife or SO works as a stripper. He has physical access to a woman who serves as an ultimate fantasy object to scores of other men. And he has that access on demand [more or less] under conditions the other men do not.
Now, what's behind that is probably another interting question.