As I noted in a thread below, my VIP membership expires in about a week, and I will not renew. Not because I am unhappy, or leaving the Sugarworld. To the contrary, I have been sucked in deeply and expect this is where I will stay. It is just that being a VIP and active on SA consumes a lot of time and I have better things to do with my life. I was looking for one or two SBs for an LTR and I will have them. I do not need or want more prospects. If I was looking for more one and done friends, I probably would want to keep VIP, but that is not what I want.

In three weeks, here is a rough recount if what I have done.

I have scheduled about 16 first dates of which 10 canceled or did not show up. Of those, I still plan to meet 3, though given their track record I do not expect them to show up, not that I expect any of them to show up given my experiences. Of the ones I met, 2 of them took me to bed before that first date ended. One decided I was not for her, which was my biggest disappointment since she is the one that I liked the most of all that I have met. It may be for the best that she turned me down, as her schedule did not fit well with mine, she wanted more money than I really wanted to spend, and based on that meeting I might have risked liking her too much, but it was disappointing. I turned down one at the end of our lunch. Cute, nice body, very good price, but totally nuts and clearly lots of trouble. I was nice and got out safely.

Lesson 1 - expect to be disappointed, particularly by missed first dates.

My other two first dates resulted in one second date that was just a fuck date - she clearly is on SA to satisfy a desire for rough sex, and while that is not my normal style, I let her lead me through a session. Still not my cup of tea, but it was enough fun that I may see her again from time to time if that interests her. I have a lunch and afternoon of fun scheduled with the other. In the coming week, I have five more first dates scheduled. Three are purely first meetings, one has gradually evolved in conversation and now is lunch and sex, and the last is a lady I have been chatting with for three weeks, missed a previous date with (it was a misunderstanding that effectively resulted in me standing her up) and is understood to be a visit followed by some private fun if we hit it off. After three weeks I think we will, but who knows. And I have a second date, lunch and fun, scheduled with my unicorn. Yes, it should be a busy and expensive week, particularly for a guy who only wants one date a week, but I need to make some decisions, and time is not necessarily my friend here. One way to lose a perspective SB is to delay getting to the point of getting to know each other well enough to see if this could be fun. History says half the first meetings won't happen, either.

Beyond that I probably have another half dozen ladies with whom I have had some promising conversation. Over the coming week I will be moving those that I still think are promising to email or text. I have anonymous email and phone (on Sideline) accounts for that purpose. There are also four women who are clearly hookers that I have had some conversations with and am moving onto email. Lastly I have my three, old provider friends and one fairly new (two dates) provider friends. One has been transitioning to just a friend already, and we will be doing lunch every month or two. I am up in the air on two - might keep seeing them from time to time, or maybe try transitioning them to SBs depending on how things turn out with all my SA friends. Just depends on whether I still lust for them. The new one was on SA, showed me her profile when I was telling her about my explorations after our second date. We have agreed on an arrangement and I plan to see her twice a month or more going forward. Which leaves little space in my calendar for all these others, but we will see how it plays out.

One month, conversations with maybe 50 women, probably 10-12 first dates by the time I am done. I expect that have fucked at least half of those, though it took time - 2 in the first two weeks, four in the next. While there are exceptions, I think that if you do not get to the point of meeting in 2 weeks, either one or both of you is not serious. You can have more sex sooner, but then you are seeing the hookers. I have nothing against them, but I want to explore a genuine SB relationship. If I wanted a provider relationship, I am certain I would have a better time with any of my four provider favorites, and it would be easier and less expensive. Shorter dates and different, but less expensive. Stood up 10+ times, too, by the time this is wrapped up. I am not counting my old provider friends in the above stats.

It has been fruitful and I will have what I wanted, probably more. To continue on SA would be to waste a lot of time on chatting that would not lead anywhere, since I do not have the time or desire to see more women.

More to come on what I found to work and what did not.

zig

I'm at least 10 years your junior (as evident by your own bio info), engaged in my own business with lots of free time on my hands, single & detached and yet, you clearly put my sorry arse to great shame

Bravo and kudos to you for such rapid and torrent pace! At most, I message 5 new women a day and with some of those, I need to let things percolate a bit longer as you never know when they will be getting back to you. I always assume that most of these women have already something going on (that's the Zangari in me) and that they will get back to you in their own sweet time, if and when ready and only IF they like what they read about you and your correspondences thereafter. Being easy on their eyes in your pictures is also a great bonus, but very obviously not as much as it is the other way around.

I would be doing really well if I set up 2 dates (first meets) per week as I still have business responsibilities (procurement of new merchandise, marketing of the existing and generating income is essential) to put first and foremost. In all honesty, I have had 4 proposals of' "how soon can we meet" or "can you meet today" which for the above reason I have had to postpone. Some of these SBs are in it to sate their "in the moment" financial needs whom I call the quasi pros. I won't be surprised if I never hear back from them when I message them a couple of days later. Case in point, if you're horny and have the means, you've got to jump on these P4P opportunities because the chances are you will be in bed with them after that perfunctory first meeting )better have a place lined up which isn't too difficult for old hand mongers!).

Since I do not operate at such an uber fast and crazily rapid pace as you do, I tend to be active on SA for 3 months at a time as a VIP member. My goals are always to bed 6-8 within the said period and perhaps end up with 2 whom I can keep on my roster for 6(ish) or so months. Then wash, rinse and repeat!

Last night I get messaged by a FIFTY years old "SB", mind you totally unsolicited as I will first shoot off my d*ck before I contemplate on paying a 50 YO woman for sex (been there and done that in moments of drunkenness with supposedly 40 YO providers who had misrepresented themselves by a decade, but that's another story!). Also bear in mind that my stated age is 51 on my profile (I'm 53) and that I clearly state I do NOT wish to go beyond a 50 miles radius so I don't get bothered by time-wasters who wish to travel on my dime!

This PIG really looked like the guy who was Lorenzo Lamas's sidekick (the character) from the 90's Renegade series. Yup, that guy who looked like the Cherokee Chief to what ever the fark! Anywhooo, she messages me with np Hi or Hello or any pleasantries and goes, "I can satisfy all your needs but at your stated PRACTICAL, I've got to tell you that it sounds to cheap and that you need to step up your game!!!". I literally LOL'd so hard that I think I peed myself! Some delusional and deranged people really can have lots of cyber fun on SA on their very lonely Friday eves! LOLZZZZ...

I had a similar experience with a woman claiming to be in her 40s who looked older and overused. She went ballistic on me when I politely refused to send her $500 for travel expenses so she could travel 400 miles to see me. Are you kidding me? I'm enjoying a steady supply of pussy in the teens and twenties for pocket money.

I've been on SA for two years and plan to continue. I'm nearly always active, trying to develop new leads, schedule first meetings and turn those into sexual arrangements.  Not at the pace you've been doing though. There's a lot of good advice for noobs in your stories, like the need for patience and understanding that a certain percentage will not show up, or will not have chemistry. And even those you take to bed will not necessarily lead  to more.  I've had several of those where the sex was simply not my cup of tea and let it go after one trip to the bedroom. Some have said it's important to strike while the iron is hot , so to speak, and don't wait too long to meet a potential SB lest she wander off and find someone else. But my experince has been pleasantly different. several times I've had to wait due to scheduling problems more than a month before meeting, or a month between coffee and first fuck. And it has worked out well. Just yesterday I had sex for the first time with a lovely 22yo that I met for coffee over a month ago. She had kicked her worthless bf out and hadn't accepted any other SD offers. Seems like she was waiting for me! Anyway, she was so horny and eager she just about wore me out. Ain't this fun! Re reading what I just wrote makes it sound like I'm just in this for the sex, but that's not true. I had a very important ltr with a SB that lasted over a year and hope to find that kind of deep connection again. Auditioning these candidates is certainly fun though!

If you have any interst, take them out for a nice dinner, one you will enjoy. Ply her with some cocktails or wine. At the end she will either take you home and fuck you on spec, or not. Either way you had an enjoyable dinner, hopefully enhanced by whatever amusement she provided (many ways that can go). Not my game at all, as I would rather pay to have fun with a cute, fresh, young one any day of the week, but at least you weren't paying for it, sort of.

zig

After a few days when I looked at SA as flirting and fun, I came to see it as a sales process. First you prospect, then you qualify, then you close. If you are going to spend the time to do it, you need to see it through, And that means seeing it through on their schedule, not mine. So that is what I have done. There have been crazy weeks that are not fun, but my goal is to find a very good, very real SB or two, and it is worth it. Once I do that, I expect to have at least a year or two of good fun with them.

One thing I learned from my sales training is that the two best things that can happen in a sales cycle are (best) you close the deal, or (second best) you disqualify the prospect immediately so you don't waste any more time on her. Which is why I think I will not have another unicorn experience like that one - I now view a lot of that stuff as a waste of time.

But, yeah, I am an old, perverted fuck off, despite being supposedly working full time. And during this frenzy I have neglected a few things, so I am happy it will be ending and I can get back to a more normal life.

Since I have only been doing this for three weeks, I can't speak to waht happens with someone when you talk on and off for weeks, maybe months, then finally meet. There are women I have been in touch with on and off for most of these three weeks, but we have not yet met. If they show up I will screw one of them next week, and have lunch with another.

I understand anticipation and how it enhances the experience, so by now my excitement at meeting, and possibly bedding, these women is arguably greater than their attraction (physically or socially) merits. That is part of why I continue, plus these ones do amuse me socially. We sort of click.

My question is this - yes, I understand your wait can be rewarded, but did they turn into good, regular SBs or was it more of a one off and then they flitted away again? If past behavior is an indicator, I assume it will be the latter. In that case, yeah your patience was rewarded, and mine will be, with a thrilling date or two, but not the SB LTR I seek. Happy to be proved wrong, tho. I have been on a bunch of this stuff.

zig

For the full dates, by which I mean sex was included, I have paid 500, 350, and 300. For the dates next week, I expect to pay 300, 650, 500 and 500 (yeah it is an expensive week). Overall I have probably overpaid since I still do not like negotiating with a lady. My experiences in the hobby have taught me that every time a provider was willing to cut prices before we met, it would have been better not to have seen her. I am not completely sure what the dynamic was there - were they just lousy hookers, or did the lower price result in indifferent performance? I think it was the former.

I believe I have generally overpaid. My starting position and my budget are 500 per date, which I present as 400 if I host, 500 if you host. It has been interesting to see how quickly a woman who said she was not comfortable hosting until we know each other would pivot and invite me over for that extra 100 (which is fine for me - I have no desire to give more money to a hotel, when it will make an SB happier with all the benefits that can bring). That pivot is part of what leads me to conclude I could drive a harder bargain. I do plan to rediscuss pricing with whoever I like, particularly if it is that 650 woman (a very hot 28 yo latina who I expect will make my toes curl).

I have never paid for an introductory date. A few have asked, usually around 200. I think I have offered 50 twice, but no one took me up on it. I have no objection in principle to providing a token sum to show I am a real player, but it has not been necessary. I have had offers from SB-hookers for sex as low as 200, and for a monthly allowance as low as 1000. I may try the former, but the latter was BSC.

One just laid there during the sex, though she was one feisty and opinionated conversationalist. Another was pretty shy and did not want to talk much other than to ask me to pull her hair and do things to her butt. The third was sweet, young and pretty vanilla, seeming to like sex and intimacy quite a lot. She is my unicorn and gave me lots of hugs and kisses, too.

I agree with those who say you should always get the lady to quote a price first. In fact I have had an experienced SB tell me that is just how it is - most guys refuse to put a price out there first. I tell her what an arrangement looks like to me, then ask her to tell me what would make it worth her while. I have had one refuse to do that and we have agreed to meet and see what we think then. Will she show up? I am not counting on it. But if she does, I expect her to be selling hard, which can be a nice thing. When I do give a price it usually means the lady came in high. So I tell her my budget. At first I would leave it there and walk away. But I have seem the expensive ladies come down to me, so I think that was wrong. Starting at 5k per month just means she is a tough negotiator. Be nice, stay in touch and you might get her to come to you. Or not.

Once I pick some regulars I will revisit the pricing. Hopefully that will not queer the deal. I think that once I show I am real, not objectionable and ready to offer a reliable income, more of the negotiating power swings to me. I have not agreed to a monthly allowance, and do not plan to do so. Of course I see the benefit to the woman, but it is messy and really not very NSA. I give her money with the expectation she will see me 4 times a month, say. Then we can only meet twice, because her mother is sick. Now I am pissed off. Or I want to see her six times because I am horny - is she going to be available? Messy. So I counter by saying that after 2-3 dates, once we know we like each other, I will schedule 1-2 months out so we have the dates fixed and she knows how much I am going to give her. I like this because I can schedule other things around our dates. I am not sure how it will work in reality because shit comes up and things need to be rescheduled. And if she is flaky, it won't really help. So all I can say for sure so far is that it seems to end the discussion about monthly allowances quite effectively. I do plan to try to implement it.

That is my pricing report.

zig

Thanks for all the details. Pricing and budgeting is critical and we can't stop comparing the SBs to providers even though there is more adventure in the sugar bowl.

 I ask what Sb expectations are after telling them what I am looking for. This one girl wanted to just spend time together without any sex initially so I told that she will have to wait on the money as well. Certain pricey girls I had to say No to, and ended up fucking one 21 year old hottie for 300. Scheduled a couple of more next week, most start with 2-3K a month and then I tell them it depends on how many time we meet. I told one girl that if she wants 2K then I will see her twice a week and pay on every encounter rather than upfront. Some of these younger ones don't even get the math so it gets confusing. And the experienced ones are tough to negotiate so I have to take it or leave it on face value. My ATF provider sees me for lesser than her standard rate so I am sure we can negotiate it after the first encounter. And probably I agree to give her what she asks for at least the first time to not look so cheap, especially if she is hot

I have not noticed the pattern you are asking about. One SB I correspondd with ofr several months before meeting. When we first started messaging she was out of state, but planned to move to my area. Then she was travelling. When she finally did move to my area and we finally got together it was great, and we've been visiting since last April. We're great friends, and the benefits are wonderful. Just yesterday I had my first sexual encounter with a SB I exchanged messages with and actually met for coffee a month ago. it was an intensely pleasurable encounter. I believe we will continue to see each other. Of the women I've contacted and moved  quickly to meet and get busy with, some have lasted, some have not.  I  don't see a connection between speed of contact and longevity of the relationship.

And I agree with your attitude about monthly allowances. Way too much pressure there.  But I am curious about your statement that you can renegotiate the price later on. In my opinion once you set an amount she's going to be really pissed if you try to lower the amount. So I've never tried it. Has it worked for you? I prefer to get a rate I'm comfortable with estabished at the outset.

#1-300 plus dinner budget has ended up with 200 a visit gifts.   4 visits so far  The girl needed something to wear when we go to dinner.     Good pussy.      
#2  - 300 a visit and told her I would buy a car if she became a regular.     If she cancels contract no payment is made.    Says she will travel to beach, cruise, anywhere I want to go.    I will give the SB 300 each trip, visit, and one visit the car payment.     The visits can be multiple days. Good pussy
#3  -  One visit 300 just met.   She had a bad date with no pay with SD and stopped by my house on way back and spent the night.    said she would like to date me some more.  5 O.sssss with vibrator Good pussy  

The women need someone to help them with their bills so they love this old man that favors Benjamin Franklin.

because I've thought about doing something like that.  And I just started out an arrangement with a 22yo who really needs a car.  I think she'd be thrilled to get one to drive right away knowing she can make her payments with pussy!  So what are the details?  Did you tell her exactly what the car is going to cost her and how many "car payments" she's going to have to make? Will you transfer the title into her name right away or will you wait until she's paid it off? Is she paying for insurance or are you?  Who's covering maintenance and repair costs?  I'm assuming you bought her a decent reliable used car but not extravagantly expensive, right? And if she quits on you who keeps the car? If you lose interest in her before it's paid for, what then?

I had negotiated price with a provider after I saw her a couple of times. I have not tries with SB, but I always tell them that my funds vary based on how well my business runs so don't expect the monthly allowance written on stone. So I expect when they hear that I can only afford a bit less each month than initially promised then they may still stick with me to avoid going through the whole screening process once again.