I'm relatively new to the hobby and have somewhat jumped in with both feet. I now have 3 providers I see once a week, and another that will be about once a month.
It's lots of fun and gets better the more you see each girl. I've started bringing along things like bubble bath and massage oil.
Twice...TWICE last week I showed up with either the bath or lotion bottle less than full (didn't buy a "new" one each time). Now 2 of these ladies have said "are you seeing someone ELSE?!?". Now, not as apeshit crazy like a civvie would, but it strikes me as VERY odd.

Like I said, I'm new at this. So new that sometimes I have to work hard to remember that it's "all about the envelope" and there's no place for emotion no matter how much they tell me they "care" or that I'm "special".

I'm just really blown away by this. Did I break some kind of unwritten rule? I mean, seriously, it's not like they aren't seeing anyone "else".

Thoughts?

Oh dear, MongrMan,

Apeshit indeed! Methinks you've been exposed to yet another expression of an evolutionary adaptation - one which knows no distinction between provider, civvie or any other profession or civil status for that matter.

I wouldn't call it "jealousy" as much as I would call it 'protection of turf.' From an evolutionary standpoint, women don't necessarily get sexually jealous in the sense that they get enraged by imagining the meeting of genitalia. But they do get jealous when it comes to affections and resources bestowed on another. This comes from thousands of years of making sure that the paternal investment doesn't become directed toward another woman's offspring, real or potential. Intra-sexual competition between women can get very intense and is based mainly on denigration of the other "threatening" woman. In addition, women escalate their expressions of suspicion, as in making the kind of statements referred to in your posting.

Since providers are no different in that sense, you may get a dose of an evolutionary "sniff-out." She wants to know if her turf, her resources, her SECURITY is being threatened. It's very normal. Of course, some providers may say nothing to you, but they may think it instead. And of course, if the short-term mating strategy is operating in the sense that it's the first time you're seeing the provider, she may not say anything about a half-empty massage oil bottle. But if you end up seeing her a few times, some kind of connection will become established and then yes, she may react. And of course it's not the same the other way around. If she's seeing many men, that's just a job and more trading - during preliterate times, that would mean screwing for an extra piece of meat, or careful building up of one's resources as a woman. A comparison of this would be that some men might not want to know that a provider is married. For some, that may take the predatory sheen out of the event - some men just don't like to hunt for another man's possesion.

My advice to you in all this is to ask if you can leave some of these products at each provider's place. That way you're not schlepping, it's at their place (if they allow this of course), and no atavistic toes need to be trampled upon. You have to remember that this is "apeshit" behavior, in the sense that our neocortical faculties are not always in control of expressions that have been honed through thousands of years of evolutionary adaptations. She may feel just that little twinge of fear (of losing benefits) in the moment, and that's why these words come out of her mouth. I hate to say it, but I'd probably say the same thing if I were a provider! Dang, I don't like it either! Looks kinda tacky....coming around with half-empty bottles! Where you been, you hounddog?!

It's comforting to know we're all in our monkey suits,
the Love Goddess

MongrMan, I also havent' been doing this a long time but here is what I've observed.

I have 4 steady ladies. Two I would consider in their late 30's early 40's. I see them and they have both been in the business more as a careeer. They are not jealous at all and I use them as references all the time. They are well reviewed with high 8's and 9s. I can tell them about other providers and such with no problem.

I have two ladies that are in their late 20's early 30's that are very protected of their turf. I would not dare ask either if I could use them as a reference. They are both well under the radar and want me to tell them I'm the only one they are seeing. They will never rush me so even though I may pay for an hour they will stay until I have to leave. They both work part time.

So I might be making a big jump but I wonder if the age lady might play a part in what you are seeing? Or maybe a more p.c. statement is the more mature the lady is the less "jealous" she might be?

Not sure if age is an true indicator here.  I'll offer up my scenario as the reason why I feel this way.

I have two favorite ladies, one is 35 the other is 37. The older gal is definitely much more protective of her turf.  I don't see her as often as the other lady since she lives 300 miles away. I love spending time with her and she is really a great lady but I definitely know when she is in "protect mode".  I don't need references very often but if I do need one I don't use her unless we have seen each other recently. She definitely gets a little uneasy if it's been a few months between visits and she sees me checking out new talent...

The younger of the two is actually very secure. Now, I see her a couple of times a month so she knows I'm pretty into her. That being said, she loves giving me references as she really feels that variety is the spice of life. In fact, she asks me to tell her stories about how my adventures with other gals have gone. She really gets off on it!

I don't think there is a criteria that you can use to determine how a lady will react to the idea of the other ladies that you are involved with. It's human nature and everyone has a little bit of a different slant.  That's what makes it interesting!

as I recently found out when I made a post which really upset four ladies I spend time with regularly. I am cynical and jaded, and in a response to a post, well buried in the thread, I said something which gave the impression that I did not give credence to the notion that my ladyfriends enjoyed being specifically with me despite certain evidence to the contrary.

Well - It did not take long to hear from all four of them - and they were all quite put out. Genuinely upset. Took some contrition and fast footwork to patch it up. And, it taught me the lesson in the subject line.....

turns out that they are in the habit of reading my posts - now there's something to think about when you're prattling.... someone important may be watching.

Still doing penance....

Gregory

-- Modified on 12/19/2008 4:51:36 PM

Whether they are jealous or not doesn't matter.  It's simply in bad taste to bring a used gift.  Don't do it.

I know this seems too  easy of a solution but buy another bottle of each product and keep filling the bottle that you bring back to the top.  Like the ketchup in a restaurant.  Everyone is happy and you do want your providers to be happy.

a woman, working in this field, seeing men who clearly are indicating a choice that they would like multiple sex partners, would try to do a head game on her client in such a manner.

I thank the hobby gods that no provider has ever said that to me (and I do bring half full masssage oil bottles with me from time to time, so what of it?)

If they did, it would be sayonara time.

-- Modified on 12/21/2008 6:07:46 AM

This is an interesting discussion and I appreciate the LG’s insight and explanation.  Regarding age and maturity factors; sounds reasonable especially since (like all people) as women age and mature they often accumulated more financial means and security compared to their younger counterparts.  I would suggest to Bostonguy57 there’s no meaningful age difference between providers 35 and 37 to draw any conclusions (since they’re both about the same age).  And just for fun, how do you know your “younger” provider (age 35) isn’t telling you she wants to know all about your experience with other providers as a means of keeping a pulse on the security her financial relationship with you?  In LG’s discussion she mentioned that women may “think it” but “not say anything” so it’s not much of a stretch to think a clever woman might say the opposite of what she’s thinking as an effective means of disarming her informant and further investigate her evolving situation.  Just a thought.

And let's not forget that from an evolutionary standpoint, an older women technically has less "capital" than a younger one, hence the younger, more fertile [again, it's evolutionary intra-sexual competition, folks] and more nubile female constitutes more of a threat, what with her nulliparous [never given birth] state. And if you've ever heard older women [deep sigh, myself included] snicker over their younger "competitors," then you definitely have seen intra-sexual competition in action!

Gonna go pick some lice off my alphamale now
the Love Goddess

The fact that there is not much of an age difference was part of my point. Two different approaches from women who are in roughly the same age group.

As far as what my two favs tell me vs. what they think. Well, I am off the clock friends with both of them and I have been for four years with one and almost three with the other. I've been at this for a while and one of the reasons I gravitate towards older, low volume women is because the BS factor is much lower. I see and talk to both of them frequently between visits and I am trusted by both of them, as I trust them in return.  On more than one occasion I have been asked for advice from the male POV about something that a guy did on a date or how to handle a certain situation.  Hell, being old and a hobbyist for over 20 years ought to be good for something!

Sometimes a relationship develops beyond play 4 pay. You either trust someone or you don't but I don't do it blindly. Trust is something that is earned on both sides.

jealousy has nothing to do with it. showing up at the door with a half full bottle of massage oil? yuck!! that's just plain gross, not to mention utterly classless and disrespectful. i would be horrified if a gent attempted to pull such a number with me. more than likely that is what is putting these women off, not "jealousy."

I would think that they would be surprised that you're seeing someone else, simply for the fact that if any one of them is seeing you once a week, they probably assume that your visits are so frequent with them that you don't have the stamina or cash to see others.

Hmm...3 providers a week?  Must be nice to have the big wallet.

I bet it's more about the thought that if it's the same bottle you brought to her place full and now it's half empty a week later, she's thinking about the body fluids from who knows how many other women are on the bottle itself. Frankly, that's what would gross me out.

We're hookers.....we know you're banging other women and we really don't give a shit. We're banging other men. But I have zero interest in thinking about the other ladies you've seen's body fluids being on a bottle of anything being brought into close proximity of MY body. Sorry, but yuck!

Andi

I was taught long ago that jealously and guilt were the two most useless emotions in the human emotional vocabulary.

At some point it is my greatest wish that providers would understand more about men in the fact that they are not naturally monogamous and really love variety.  It is almost instinctual.

I love to find visiting providers for my ATF and ask him to "try her" and see what she is like.  I get wonderful feedback and sometimes we invite her for threesomes.  They are delicious.

Some day providers will understand that when we work as a collective and not competition we all benefit.

Adversely, women are soft mushy creatures of love that need to be nurtured so be careful of how you approach each individual one.

Kisses

Juls

A small degree of jealousy can be healthy in a relationship. It can show your partner that you care.

Guilt is definitely a healthy emotion as it's part of having a conscience. A person with no conscience who can do horrible things and not feel an ounce of guilt about it has a problem. Guilt is what hopefully keeps us from doing horrible things, likewise when we do horrible things as is only human at times, guilt is what hopefully keeps us from doing the same thing again and also allows us to apologize for our actions.

Now EXTREME guilt or EXTREME jealousy are unhealthy and oftentimes when people experience extreme guilt, it is counterproductive when they oftentimes have apologized for their negative actions but are unable to forgive themselves.

I believe that human beings are not NATURALLY monogomous creatures, but I also know as fact that we can CHOOSE to be monogomous if we have enough love and respect for a partner who desires a monogomous relationship with us. I think that when people say, "men are not naturally monogmous and reaslly love variety. It is almost instinctual." it's a cop out and it's offensive to those men AND WOMEN who CHOOSE monogomy because they value that in themselves and their partner. Not everyone has such low self-control that they can't be monogomous to their partner if they value that. Likewise, when a man says that, I think oftentimes it's a cop out and the denial he uses for himself to explain behavior he knows he will likely be judged for. Especially when he takes vows.

I'm all for freedom of sex. Just don't get married if your mate is expecting you to uphold the vows you made not to have sex with anyone but her/him. No one forces anyone to get married. So, go out and sample all the goods out there.....just don't date or marry someone who expects and wants monogomy then explain it away by saying that it's unnatural for men to sleep only with one woman.

As for instincts, human beings do not have any instincts at all. We don't need them anymore. THe closest thing we have to an instinct is fight or flight, but by definition, it is not an instinct.

By the way.....not ALL women are "soft, mushy creatures of love that need to be nurtured." There are many women out there who are just the opposite. Some are in prison for comitting murder.

I think the basic jist of my message is that we need to stop painting gender with one brush. There is NOTHING that every male or every female is or isn't. We are all very different based on biology and the environment in which we were raised and live among other things.

Not all men are cheaters, not all women are monogomous or even value monogomy. Not all men are players or even enjoy having sex with tons of different women or feel they need to and not all women value only having one partner.

And not all guilt or all jealousy is bad.

Andi