If they aren't delivering value for the moola then Das Boot!
Well, bit of a surprise. I've been in a quite satisfying arrangement with my SB for 2 years. We've done fun things together, experimented BCD. It's been lovely. Then, not coincidentally I'm sure, as we were celebrating our 2 years together, all of a sudden after I had made dinner, out of the blue she blurts out "I want a raise!" She completely flipped personalities from the nice, charming caring gal to Putin negotiating for Ukraine. It completely threw me off my game. It was completely out of character. I'm experienced enough to know this is an arrangement and she has a right to declare what she wants, but she told me how I knew she wanted a more financially lucrative arrangement from the beginning. I told her that I was aware of what she wanted 2 years ago, that at that time I told her I couldn't give her what she wanted and maybe she should find a guy better suited to her needs. She said she still wanted the arrangement on my terms, and thus a consistent arrangement has progressed up to this time. What really irked me was that when I said that I had provided her with things outside of the agreed allowance eg getting her nails done, helping her when she got flooded out of her apartment, taking her on trips, she claimed that those extras were just gifts (and said it in a dismissive way too) and said "I have goals". She also said it is "customary" for SDs to increase allowances the longer the arrangement goes on. Really? Where is that written in the Sugar Baby handbook?
She was inflexible in her demands (wanting a 33% increase in the allowance.) I was so floored that I completely blew it and agreed to her demands. I know, I should have channeled Trump's Art of the Deal but I didn't. She did agree to do some kinks that I had desired so it wasn't totally one way. But I still have a bad taste in my mouth. We'll be getting together soon and believe me I am going to demand everything I want in the kink department. We'll see how that goes.
So I am thinking that she must have caught the GPS disease and probably also has also been swayed by SB friends/influencers on what SBs can demand from us poor sucker SDs.
She's in her mid/late 30s so we are not talking immaturity here. What makes her stupid is that she didn't see that style and approach to discussing what is a delicate topic should be done with honey and not vinegar. Little did she know what I might be willing to do. As of now she has won the battle but completely lost the war. I'll hang out with her 1 or maybe 2 more times then I'll say goodbye. Will do the "have lost some clients in my biz and with that went the sugar budget." Don't want any reactions from her that put me at risk.
Thanks so much for reading this very long post. I just needed to vent to the great and wise sugar bros on here.
She likely looked at TikTok or some online influencers and decided she was undervalued.
Unless she's a 10/10 in a major market she may have trouble meeting those expectations. Whether she comes crawling back to you... who knows?
What she truly wants is a SD who pays her at least double what I do. Why not keep me, we get along great and I treat her like a queen, and find another SD to fill in the rest. I never told her she couldn't. Silly girl. Now she's gonna lose what she had. Bird in the hand......
I'm a betting man though with women I can't figure the odds but I will say she won't easily find a SD to carry the whole load, so she might reappear at some point. Really hard to say. I'm in San Diego so the SD availability is ok I assume but not like LA and I would put her as a 8/10. Charming personality when you get to know her but a bit hidden initially. It took us 3 dates to get to the point of cementing the deal and she wasn't intentionally stringing me along
I'm sorry that you had to experience this. It's a reminder that SBs view us as ATMs not lovers, and desire to extract maximum benefit. It's a business decision for them and they will push all available levers to get what they want. I personally learned this the hard way last year.
I like your approach to saying goodbye. As the great Herb says, never burn bridges if you can avoid it.
I told my SB that and I found a ton of options that were better in the services and half the cost. She said I was a liar. Lol
Charming. That would have ended for me in that instant.
That mirrors my story so closely that I had to check if it was an old post I wrote. I was with mine off and on for 3 years. But we never did things outside the BR. Just prior to Xmas she told me I'd never find anyone as hit as her for what I was paying. She then went back east then an unexpected trip to Malaysia. We went 6 weeks with zero contact. She finally texts me...what's up with you? She wanted to meet up. Then asks me if I've been a good boy. I replied of course not. Hooked up with 8 ladies from AMPs. Better service. Half the cost. Her reaction was priceless.
In my 10 years of active sugaring, with scores of women, I've never had one suddenly ask for a raise. Maybe I'm just lucky? I've def had some unsuccessful initial negotiations where we were too far apart on $ to ever get BCD. I've had a few in which I followed my little head and paid too much, but then quit her after 1 or 2 dates because the amount was unsustainable, and sex was only mediocre anyway. And I remember one who simply told me after a few dates she was going after more lucrative opportunities, so we said goodbye. The overwhelming majority were happy to have a modest but very steady income from me. And they have all been seeing others at the same time, so they were enjoying a very fun lifestyle and making more $ than working a low level job. I suspect your SB's sudden request was due to getting a lot of very bad advice online. And unless she has her own network of active, experienced SBs , there's no way for her to compare her bad advice to your reality. If she doesn't come to her senses, say goodbye and move on.
Yes sweetman I did think the request was odd, especially the "it is considered appropriate to give a SB a raise after a certain time". That sounded right out of someone's mouth. I figured yes, bad advice, and then she got a bit whiny on me which was completely out of character. I think she was coached. Bet she was told "honey, you can do better than him, you tell him what you need and don't back down!" Alrighty then, bye bye girl
Sounds like an awful experience. Thanks for sharing the pain...
It's entirely possible that she felt she "compromised" on the original arrangement and has been staying with you because you have otherwise delivered well above her expectations. But in 2 years, inflation happens, and now she may be dealing with the reality of no longer being able to meet her financial needs.
The process she used to address this is, to say the least, flawed. And as you have stated it will likely result in her losing all of your benefits soon. I get that there was an emotional surprise for you - a true "WTF?" moment, so to speak. Sometimes we forget to focus on the "why" before we get to the "what" of an issue. Perhaps if you had been able to get her to talk more about why she's asking now or what changed, she may have provided you more info that could be used to negotiate an acceptable resolution. I'll speculate that you can easily afford a 10-15% increase, if not the full 33% she demanded, in exchange for the expanded "activity" list.
Some things to consider on each side:
1. How likely are you to find a replacement at the same rate? Is it more likely you may end up having to offer that 15% more to close the deal with a new SB?
2. How likely is she to find a replacement at the 33% higher rate. Is it more likely she may end up having to accept an offer only 15% more that she is getting from you?
If you had an opportunity to talk about #1 and #2 together, how likely is it that you would stay together at the halfway point? Fortunately, you can still have that conversation if you want to...
Always appreciate posts like this. Gives us a chance to think about how each of us would (will) react going forward.
Life is good
The Cat
The cat, oh wise one! Yes all of your advice is excellent. I did try to meet in the middle but she would have none of it. She kept going back to "I have more expenses now, I was expecting a bigger allowance when we started..." And she shut me down. Again if I'd had my wits about me I would have shrugged and said it's time for us to move on.
Can I revisit the agreement and have another go? I will try. It will get ugly. She is quite willful, stubborn, hard headed when she wants to be. My response to people like that is to not engage, walk away.
One thing I have to keep in mind is this is only a sugar arrangement. I can find others for less, I already have a couple of them keen to get going. Can she find better, maybe. Finally do I care if we can make a go of this - no. It's just BCD fun, hardly worth tons of effort for. It's not a real relationship. And I took someone's advice from a while ago and made sure that I did not fall in love.
Thank you for your help!
... is that she appears to need you more than you need her.
If she could easily find an SD that will pay her ask, she'd already be with him. And even then, she may have stayed with you, making the new guy's allowance incremental rather than a replacement.
You on the other hand know she can be replaced at her current rate, or even lower, fairly easily. Even if it takes you a while you can "compensate alone" for a while wile stockpiling extra cash to be spent on her replacement(s).
Life is good
The Cat
One of my now regulars needs help buying a car. Herd is constantly in the shop and it's affecting her ability to work. She asked me to help her buy a car.
In exchange, she said she'd start swallowing and do anal.
Very risky, especially with a newer arrangement.
What exactly is she asking for:
1. Buy her a new car outright out of your pocket?
2. Give her a significant amount of cash to buy it?
3. Give her enough cash to make a significant down payment, and then,
4. Help her make, or completely pay her monthly finance payment?
5. At what point will she deliver her new activities: Before the purchase, during the finance period, after purchase is compete (title is clean)?
6. Who will "own" the car, who's name will be on the pink slip?
7. Who will get and pay for car insurance (new car = Full comprehensive insurance in California)?
The answers to these will help you figure out what, if anything, you will do. But a few general issues to contemplate:
1. Title in your name technically means you can take back possession of the car at any time. BUT: If she crashes, damages property or persons you may be on the hook for liability.
2. Similar issue with insurance: In her name or yours with her as an additional driver. If she fails to make the monthly payment, you will need to make it.
3. Same issue with monthly car payments. If she defaults, you may need to make missed (and future) payments.
Some possible scenarios:
1. You finance or purchase the car - title in your name. She agrees to make monthly "payments" in cash or services. Risk: if you break up, you are stuck with an extra car and all future payments.
2. You fund the purchase or finance - title in her name. She agrees to make the payments on finance and insurance, or you make the payments if service delivered. Risk: She can bail any time before the loan is paid and you get stuck with the loan balance and without owning the car. Additional risk, she may miss dates or not honor you schedule (3 times a week may slip to 1 or 2).
3. You give her enough cash to finance - title in her name. The rest is up to her, but she delivers service immediately. Lowest risk (the initial "gift", but no ongoing payments or liability).
4. Same as 3, but you give her more than the down payment, up to the full price. Bigger risk than 3, but lower than #1 or #2.
My recommendation (without knowing any additional specifics): Stay away from owning the car and from signing up for loans (primary or co-signer) and from insurance. Instead, stick with giving her cash at some level and let her take on all ownership obligations. It will give her valuable experience, build her credit score and keep you out of the shit if (when!) it hits the fan.
In addition, I suggest that once she determines what make/model/year she wants to get, you offer to go with her to the dealer and lead the negotiations on her behalf. That again helps her gain experience and get all those warm-fuzzies from her SD who is wise, loving and caring. Plus, you can ensure she does not get "sold" on useless add-ons like under carriage coatings, spoilers, expensive tires or wheels, and no-value extended warrantees (these are primary dealer profit products). You can also help her navigate the insurance coverage bond and prevent them from selling her those bullshit over-prices 30-day insurance plans (that are added to the financed balance).
This way, your risk is limited to the one-time cash outlay. Remember that even if she "agrees" to sign some kind of contract between you are her, it won't be legally binding, and she can blow it off (as opposed to blowing you) at any time with zero consequences.
Of course, there are any number of hybrid deals you can propose... I had an SB in 2017 who had an ongoing "deal" with her last SD when we met, though she didn't tell me about it for a year. The last SD owned a used car business. He let her have a shitty car off the lot at a "discounted" price. Every week, she could either make a cash payment of $200 or a BCD payment. When she finally told me about the deal, she asked me to "buy out" the contract for $1,200 *. I took the risk and funded the buy out with her promise to make the weekly BCD payment to me. And yeah... she ended up stretching those to bi-weekly (heavy work schedule, or other excuses), then every three weeks until 12 BCD's were completed.
* Yeah, the math means she banged this guy 52 times while she was dating me! We had not agreed to exclusivity. I was perfectly ok with her having other SD's or banging the occasional hook up. Sill, 52 times! Maybe I'm not as well-adjusted to polyamory as I'd like to think. LOL And she told me this guy was a total slime bucket and since he was a used car dealer, that seemed credible.
Looking forward to seeing how this plays out.
Life is good
The Cat
I'd be very, very careful brother Netnoy. I have tried a few times in the past to help a SB replace her worn out car, always with bad outcomes, no matter how careful I've been upfront, and no matter how carefully I tried to structure the deal. My worst experience was that I bought the car, titled and licensed and insured it in my name, and gave it to her to drive with a written agreement for her to provide monthly payments in cash or in dates, her choice. She wound up getting stopped for a DWI in short order, thrown in jail for the weekend, and the car impounded. And since my name was on all the paperwork, I got called into the State DWI Office where they explained this was one serious strike on MY record, even though I wasn't even in the car! It was a a mess untangling from that situation!
I guess my best advice if you really want to help her is first of all, don't even consider a new car. Find a good used car, preferably from a private party, not a dealer. A good, reliable Toyota or Honda is best. Get it pre-checked by a mechanic you trust and take things from there. But I still wouldn't do it. I'd help her save up for a car by opening a savings account in her name and making regular deposits for her until there was enough $ to start shopping. She'd get to learn the value of steady savings, plus the discipline of delaying gratification.
Very wise advice.
...on these 'big ticket' items, in my experience, there is no winning solution, none, nada.
Best you might/could do is consider being the upfront guy for a deposit towards the car/apartment/etc.
And of course, "special" repayment plans for the deposit are to be expected!
K.I.S.S. LOOK at the positives versus the negative outcomes. Then run like he'll. I actually try to find out how much of a financial trainwreck the lady is before I even let her into my world. I have no intention of being her primary source of income.
No, period. Bad idea and it will not work out in your favor.
1] Do not 'lend' her money. You will never see it again.
2] Do not bail her out of her financial obligations, ever. When you become daddy-savior-white knight - your upside will never be higher than the downside.
3] No allowance or PPM advances under any circumstances. It it will turn into a monthly ask and you'll end up being an ATM that is always open.
There are always newer and better ladies out there that will not expect/demand/ask for these things. Eventually, many do, and when they do, be firm but empathetic. You aren't an ATM. If they persist, time for Das Boot!
If she's not responsible enough to keep up with her financial obligations then sooner or later she's not going to be able to provide you with the value you require.
I had that once. Like any other service, or relationship, their is a cost and the cost of life is increasing. It's good you were able to discuss other "benefits" you wanted. Since your relationship is still transactional, nothing wrong with her asking.
I had a SB that wanted a raise and her base services did not include kissing or bbbj. I pointed that out to her and she said forcthat she'd want even more. I told her I'll pass. She then said OK we'll keep the same price and same services. Saw her twice more and said I wasn't interested in her anymore. And I wasn't. She was a bit shocked.
If they aren't delivering value for the moola then Das Boot!