Tells me she wants $400/hr.... lmao.... I told her that in this city thats like nearly top hooker pay, and that girls on SA would spend all day with you for that.

She went completely apeshit.  She didn't understand why any guy would prefer a 30 year old fucking machine over an 18 year-old who's never turned a trick.  She said I was trying to devalue her.  

LOL.

While I am certainly attracted to the young SBs--who isn't--no way are they worth the time. With many, you schedule an appointment, they cancel or no show. If you do meet, they often want a ridiculous "gift". Besides I have nothing in common to talk with them about. I'm sticking with the 25+ and save tons of time and headaches. Just my experience, hope others are more successful with the young ones.

And yes there is hardly anything to talk about after the moaning and grunting is iver.

Yes, many of them are entitled, but if you compare them to hookers or tell them they're hookers, you're probably not going to get very far. KL can chime in on this, but the good advice he gave me was to act like a gentleman and say something like "X is a good number for me and has worked for me and other SDs in this area that I talk to in the past." This way you have started the negotiation and put the ball in HER court. If she doesn't want to come down, then you can respectfully tell her that you're too far apart and to contact if she changes her mind. Conversations of value or worth will never end in your favor.  

If your goal is to put SBs "in their place" then your approach is fine. I recently got frustrated and did that and it totally backfired on me. If your goal is to get laid though, you should probably rethink your approach and not compare them to hookers... at least not to their face. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar and that shit lol.

I agree, I have never understood the need to put either hookers or SB's "in their place" Does it really make a guy feel better to make sure he comes of looking smarter than an 18 year old, and NOT getting laid in the process?

KL's advice was spot on. I have had a couple of POT SB's with "stars in their eyes" that were often put their my a friend, either male or female, that gave them bad advice and unrealistic expectations. Some of them can be brought down to earth gently, others are too far gone with their delusions, but calling them out, or comparing them to hookers is a way to guarantee you aren't going to get laid.

Personally, my goal is not to prove that I am smarter than an 18 year old kid. My goal is to use a combination of charm and financial incentive to work my way into the bed of hotties who otherwise would have zero interest in any man over three times her age. I have one 18 yr old SB in my rotation who started off thinking she could get $300 just to meet, I do give her $300 "per meeting" now, but that is for a several hour date that obviously includes sex. She seems quite happy with the "relationship" and I never resorted to harsh words in order to bring her down to reality. Actually I took the opposite tact, I was her second SA "date" her first was pressuring her for sex during the entire date according to her and she found it very off putting, so "smart guy" that I am, I immediately stopped putting any pressure on her for sex, but I did very gently let her know that her "allowance started at the same time as intimacy" at the end of dinner I offered to take her home if she wanted, and she immediately said "no big hurry, I still have time before I need to go home, do you want to get a room?" Cha ching. as you said, more flies with honey. lol

Thanks!  You can argue with them, but you'll win the battle and lose the war.  I think this particular SB was inflexible, so there was no loss.  Generally speaking, it's best to appear as a nice guy who has never seen a pro.  The odd mindset that most SBs have makes them look down at pros.  Ironically, most pros look down at the SBs.

A gal will love your idea when she believes she thought of it.

Sometimes they say "I know what I'm worth" in an effort to justify their unreasonable expectation$$. I always tell them they are invaluable, worth their weight in gold, I couldn't possibly pay what they are worth nor would I ever try. What I'm offering is what I'm comfortable with and what I know has worked in the past. Sometimes they are ok with this idea, other times not. I agree never to shut the door on them. Always tell them you are available if they change their mind or if their situation changes.

Recent convo I had with a 19 yr old SB...  

Me: If you want me to pay your phone bill now it comes off of your gift later today.  

Her: That means you'll only be giving me $60 when we play! I can't have sex for $60. I'm not a prostitute!  

Me: OK, lets go back to my place and have fun now. I'll drop you off at AT&T after.  

Her: Ok.  

Naturally, I did not pay the phone bill.  

Fascinating that she did not connect the idea of me spending her present on a bill as the same as giving her the cash and she then pays the bill.  This type of illogic was a recurring theme in our discussions and yesterday (on Thanksgiving!) I dumped her. I'll giver her 3 days of radio silence before I predict she contacts me and asks me back. Too late. I have 8 POT SB's lined up between SA and WYP, and only one slot in my rotation to fill. The 22 yr old blonde graphic artist from CT gets auditioned on Sunday.

One young SB who I thought was in a stable arrangement with me keeps on hitting me up for extra money. Just today she said how she needed $150 more for her phone bill, the unsaid implication being that if I don't give her what she wants she'll cancel our planned date tomorrow. I'm soooooo tempted to tell her about my other young SB, same age as her, who hangs out with me, screws my brains out, and usually spends the night, all for a paltry $200 gift. It would most likely be counterproductive though to say this, so I'll bite my tongue for now. Sometimes I wonder why I put up with her aggravating bs, then I get her naked again and I know exactly why!

Discussing "worth" is very personal and sensitive; it's also a losing proposition.

I agree that it is best to tell them they are priceless, but your budget maxes out at $x.  Or you can say that you and your friends have found that $y per date works well in your area.

negotiations for any commodity involves give and take. Some ladies have unreasonable expectations. Most reasonable ladies will listen to the other side if presented correctly as the other posts have detailed. Sometimes one has to be able to walk away in order to get the best deal with the realization that the opportunity might pass.  Luckily, there are enough other options to swing the odds in the guy's favor. I do think the final message should encourage thought and reflection so that if the SB wants to accept an offer that she originally thought was too low, she can do so without losing self-respect. That message needs to be carefully crafted to the situation. Usually in my case, I've moved on and found another girl and rarely have space for a latecomer.

I agree, and that's what I meant. Maybe I didn't express myself very well.

But as stated before, if a girl brings up a per hour rate, she's already in the realm of the hookers. I would have couched my responses quite differently than the OP but in essence I would have blown off this mouthy 18 YO too. In all my years of on/off stints on SA, I have yet to recall one single POT SB approaching the allowance subject matter in the per hour manner!  

I also agree with the poster above who wisely cautioned against getting into a discussion of "worth" and worthiness. I always approach the subject from a budgeting perspective, i.e, "this is my dispensable income, this much is free time on my hands and this is what I am offering and looking for". If the tenets of making a deal are not there, then syonara!!!

As a personal update, I feel that I'm reaching the end of the road with the Unicorn because the last couple of times it has become a bit of a drag as I have had to put more effort into it to keep it interesting. I have a feeling that this will probably not go beyond Dec. Ah well, it lasted 3 months or so which in a way is an SA LTR!!! My longest all time and ever has been 6 months. Maybe in the New Year!

I tell them the goal is a monthly allowance but to start lets do per meet. I then ask them what they were thinking. If its way hi I just tell them to be safe. Take care. 90 % say hold on how about this much.

These ladies are wading on a lot of BS so to blow off a guy that is ready and willing is not something they want to do.

Again, I have my own way of couching things. I say something to this effect:  

"... seeking a longer term arrangement which we can mutually work toward by (both of us) proving to be reliable, steady and accommodating toward each other's wishes as far as the rules of SugarBowl are concerned.

What I offer and what I seek (before we can agree on a longer term agreement):

Meeting about 3 times a month, twice being one weekend eve to go out to dinner, movie back at my place and then some grown up TLC. The other one time can be lunch and then back to my place although I don't insist on that BCD for an afternoon tryst which I also do not promise a stipend for. That is the past which will motivate me to be "generous" outside of the agreement to take her shopping, short trips, etc.

The Uni has started to fail the above metrics and my litmus tests. My course of action? I have hot the gym even harder to get even more hardbodied (both literally and figuratively) in order to graze in different and hopefully greener pastures in O'17. There's nothing like some honest self-analysis and an extra motivation with a chip on the proverbial shoulder. I won't even bother with the same profile as I will be creating a brand new one when I reemerge, as I always do so!

Interesting idea to create new profiles from time to time. I had never considered it before. I occasionally update my photos, especially when I have pics from recent travel. I assume it shows POT SB's that I'm serious about taking them on fun trips all expenses paid.  

I'll think about building a new profile from scratch after I get back from the AVN Awards in Las Vegas in Jan.  I have 2 confirmed SB/Porn Star meets set up and working on a 3rd and 4th.  Interestingly I've negotiated a sugar gift well below the standard Porn Escort rate of $1200-$2000 per hour. I am factoring in a 50% chance of NSNC, so want to have at least 3-4 set ups.  Of course, I have lots of potential to book a pro as a contingency.

My SA subscription ends today and I've been rather dissatisfied with the results I've been getting recently. Over the past 10 days I've gotten very little repsonse to messages I've sent out and barely any profile views. I always thought my profile was written pretty well as I've always gotten complements on it, but recently I've been thinking it's getting stale. The lack of recent profile views seem to maybe confirm that. I think I'm going to take a break from SA until February, so maybe it's time to cherry pick the best parts of the profile and refine it into something new. My pics are all private so no one would be wise to it.

I think you and I are on the same page.

I cringe when I hear a SB use the word "worth."  I try not to use it.  I might say to my male friends that "The experience with a certain SB or pro was not worth $x to me," which is less personal.  The fact of the matter is that some pros and SBs are "too expensive" for some of us.  That's another way of saying that the experience is not worth the cost, but that's different from a person's inherent worth.  Trying to differentiate between those in a conversation with a SB is not something I would try, as I don't think I could do it successfully.

"Always tell them you are available if they change their mind or if their situation changes."

Exactly what I just did.

A new "identity" may give you a fresh look and more success.

In the meantime, modify your old profile to make it unrecognizable.  Change the age, location, etc.  Delete all the pics, change the narrative.  Use that profile to do your research.  Use the other, new profile to make real connections.