Please excuse my ignorance as I'm fairly new to the P4P scene in its most familiar incarnation (mongers and providers). But I can't help but be curious about the Sugar Daddy/Sugar Baby scene. What are the pros and cons of the Sugar Bowl vs. your standard provider/monger relationship? Expense-wise, which seems to be more "economical"? Which has worked best for you (in your experience) and why? Which has been better over the "short term" and over the "medium-to-long term"?

If there's a RTFM (READ THE FUCKING MANUAL) type of FAQ or website that answers these basic questions, feel free to respond with that, too. Again, I'm totally ignorant on the subject matter, alas.

I use to have a sugar daddy. It was a mutual beneficial relationship. He provided a allowance and we saw each other 4-5x's per month. For lunch sometimes, other times we would shop and then we would spend time together. Being a sugar baby is like being a mistress in a sense in other cases you are a spoiled girlfriend. As for expenses depends on the Sugar daddy's budget. Some Sugar babies require at min 3k a month allowance other sugar babies may receive a significant monthly allowance of 10k or higher.  Hope this helps some.  

Hugs,

Ivy O.

I belong to a popular Sugar Dating website.  Many of the girls I've corresponded with were newbies and quite unsure of what they were getting themselves into.  So I wrote the following and have offered to send it to several women after asking if they'd like some guidance.  Remember, I wrote this with the intention of potential SBs reading it.  Still I think it may answer many of your questions.  Hope it helps.

 

First of all, your safety is important, so let's start with that. I recommend exchanging some messages, just like we are doing now, before you ever agree to meet anyone irl. Establish an online rapport, but don't use your real name yet. Then agree to meet in a public place the first time, like a coffee shop or restaurant. This may be difficult if either of you requires or desires anonymity or discretion or if the guy is afraid of being seen in public with a young woman who is not his wife!

Yes many of the guys who contact you will be married. You need to decide if that's perfectly ok with you, possibly ok under certain circumstances, or not ever ok. For example, I am married, but my wife and I are totally open and honest about everything. She knows I'm on this site and gives me her permission to enjoy the occasional company of others. She is looking for outside affairs as well, all with my blessing. It's a polyamorous lifestyle. In an Arrangement with me, you would not be enabling a cheater.  Knowing that, would you be willing to date a man like me?

If the vibe is really good at that first coffee meeting and you both feel like there's chemistry, then you can move on to an arrangement and meeting in a more private setting. Usually that happens on the second date. But it's perfectly ok to go directly from the coffee shop to the bedroom which can be really wonderful and exciting if you are both feeling it!

You can narrow the field by putting more into your profile about what you do or do not want in a SD. Do you expect an exclusive arrangement or are you ok with him having other women in his life? Do you have an age range? I just love spending time with women your age, but some people don't like such a big age difference. Then again some women your age actually prefer older guys like me. So if you have any kind of preferences might as well spell it out in your profile.

There are many fine ladies and gentlemen on this site (like us!) But some people on this site, both men and women, are fakers and flakes or just downright nuts! They lie about their financial condition, their intentions, and about other things as well.  Trust your gut!

Since we're talking about safety, and we're all responsible adults (right??) you should be prepared to prove your health status and so should he. Smart caring adults will most definitely have the conversation about safe sex before any intimate activity and share health history/status with one another.  Proof of recent testing is a great thing to share. Any hesitation about sharing test results is a red flag.

Also, please understand that a guy can get into ruinous trouble by becoming involved with an underage girl. So don't be offended if a man asks you to prove you are above the age of consent! Make a photocopy of your I.D. with your address and real name covered and have it available to show him so he can see your face and your birthday. If you are a young woman blessed with the kind of youthful good looks that's easily mistaken for an underage girl, you should expect this.

There are two basic ways a Sugar Arrangement can work. One is a monthly allowance. The guy gives you an agreed amount at the beginning of each month and you agree on how often you will meet. This is the classic Sugar Arrangement. But for lots of reasons this does not work for a lot of people. My own life is full of other obligations so I can't commit to a regular visit schedule. I prefer the other method which is a gift-per-visit arrangement. When I visit my sugar baby I give her a cash gift. Sometimes non cash gifts as well. We would plan each visit as our two busy schedules allow. This has worked very well for me in the past and for the lovely women I've met here.

Men have been giving women gifts in order to win their favor since the beginning of our species. It's a traditional, time honored custom and one I am totally comfortable with, as you should be as well. It's worth discussing your financial expectation$$ before you even meet for coffee. You should think about the level of financial expectation$$ that you really expect.  I have found several potential SBs whose expectation$$ were vastly different from mine. So it's really nice to know when you are going to meet someone new for the very first time, for coffee, that if we have chemistry  you know the financial compatibility is already established.

Now on to the subject of sex! Kind of an important subject! I love sex and think the world would be a much happier place if people spent more time fucking and less time fighting. Not everyone agrees with that philosophy and I've run across a surprising number of SB profiles that say the women are interested in platonic arrangements only. No sex. While they are totally entitled to seek what they want, I do think they are on the wrong website.  Also, some of the men who contact you will only be interested in "pay-for-play" transactions.  Again, I think they are on the wrong website and should be searching for escorts if that's what they really want.

Yes, there is an expectation of physical intimacy in an Arrangement. But this is not a website for "pros" or escorts. A good Sugar Arrangement involves building a real friendship between two people who care about each other, one that hopefully grows and evolves over time. It should be very rewarding to both people. It's about making a real connection with another human being, and sharing a real intimacy, whether the arrangement lasts a lifetime or a short time.

What makes this different from other dating you may have done is that you are openly seeking a friend who is affluent and generous, and why not!  Also there are boundaries. It's generally understood that you both have independent lives and will respect each others privacy when you are apart.

So that's about it in a nutshell. Each arrangement will be unique, a reflection of what those two individuals want and create for themselves. Being really open and honest about what you want at the outset is the best way to get what you want without wasting your own or anyone's time. I do understand that many of the people on this site don't know what to expect, and more to the point, don't really know what they themselves want. So it's a process of discovery. Just be honest with yourself and with any potential SDs and you'll have a wonderful time here.

 There are many different approaches to the sugar bowl, so any FAQ would be quite subjective.  If you  browse this board for a few pages, you'll find quite a bit on Sugar.  Some of the threads I've posted include "Setting up a Sugar Date",  "Ending an Arrangement",  "Worst Sugar Date Ever", etc.    For a monger who's considering the sugar bowl, a good rule of thumb:  if you have an ATF who contacts you for appts & spends OTC time with you, then you're a good candidate for the sugar bowl.  You're already in a quasi-sugar relationship.   Whatever you give your ATF,  offer that to an SB as a weekly allowance.  

Pros of sugar bowl (vs hobby):
1. It's legal.  When's the last time you read of a sugar daddy getting arrested.  
2. In my town, SBs are younger & hotter than the Providers on my P411 list.
3.  An top-tier SB is selective, she's not banging anonymous strangers.  
4.  No ticking clock.  I can't imagine dealing with that now.  

Cons of sugar bowl (vs hobby)
1. Typically more expensive than the hobby.  
2.  Less variety than the hobby.  
3.  Quick hookups are less likely
4.  There are providers on the sugar sites.  

 I hope that helps.  --z

Escort is like a car rental

SB is like a car lease

Marriage is like buying the car.

-- Modified on 6/7/2016 7:47:56 AM

My thanks to everyone who replied. Extremely helpful information!

There's a lot of excellent experienced comments on the Sugar Dating subject.  But when it comes to the relative cost as compared to dating escorts the majority view seems to be that Sugar Dating is more expensive.  My experience has been the exact opposite. The lovely younger escorts in my area are few and far between.  They know their rarity and they are now charging $500/hour. My ATF provider is in that price range and it's more expensive than i can handle on a regular basis.

But the last 3 SBs I've dated have all been lovely college age girls.  They have been quite happy with $200 to $250 per visit.  And in some cases those visits were all night long.  So, lots of bang for the entertainer buck. So for me, Sugar Dating is far more economical.

 That's clever & fairly descriptive of the financial side of things.  But in each instance, you're dealing with a different set of 'vehicles' (to use your analogy).   Some hookers will sneak over to the SB lot.   And most SBs & hookers eventually get married.  However:

 1.  The vast majority of married women consider P4P immoral  & would only consider it as the very last option.  

 2. Top-tier SBs  consider hooking (e.g., seeing  multiple clients per day/week) to be disgusting. To be fair, some low-volume providers feel the same way.
 
 3. A high-volume provider has no such qualms.  I have a grudging admiration for their rejection of conventional morality.

  When you've been in the P4P bubble for a long time, these distinctions get blurry. But for women, there's nothing "blurry" here.  You want to lose your College SB?  Just imply that's she's a hooker.  You want to lose your wife?  Just imply that she's an SB. --

LOL....very well put Mrfrisher

 I'm not sure where you're at, but $500 an hour sounds high, unless you're in a big market.  But in that case, the price of sugar would also be higher.  

 And some of the stuff you're posting sounds really odd.   A 69 year old guy banging "College SBs"  for $200 in an RV at a Wal-Mart parking lot.  I can't imagine a top-tier SB or a high end provider agreeing to anything like that.  It makes me wonder what type of girls you're actually picking up.  Sorry.  

 For the OP: what makes an arrangement so expensive is the regularity of it.  In the hobby, you can always skip a week, a month or even longer.  But in the sugar bowl, your SB wants that allowance on a regular basis.  Or she'll find another arrangement.  OTOH, an SB is a better value if you're currently booking multi-hour appts with providers.   --z

First off, I live in an area where the is no need to pay anywhere near $500 hr for a hooker. I rarely pay more than $300 hr in my local market of Dallas, but I am a "high volume" kind of guy. I like to get laid basically every single day, or at least every other day at a minimum.

So lets do some math here. To see six women a week, allowing for one day a week for a hangover, or just getting too busy to see anyone, we are talking $1,800 a week or roughly 8 grand a month to have an hour a day with various different hookers during the month, enjoying somewhere between 25 and 30 hours a month with the different ladies I see.

Now lets compare that to the Sugar Bowl, right now I am juggling four different SB's, call it 4 1/2 as one is on her way out and I have two in line to replace her. I am spending a bit under five grand a month total, still getting laid just about every day, but I am probably spending 50+ hours a month with my "rotation" and I suppose I could be spending even more time with them for the same money if I had the inclination.

Speaking strictly for myself, the Sugar World is much cheaper, but the trade off is that I only get to see four or five different women each month as opposed to 20-30, but at this point in my life that is plenty of variety and I still try to fit in a hooker or two into every month as well as my SB rotation.

$300 per hr is the going P411 rate in my town as well.  That's for the most attractive local  providers.   Many others go for $200 to $250 per hour.   But no one on my P411 list compares to the top-tier College SBs.    

 I drop $1600 a month (plus occasional gifts) on one SB.  But that allowance will get you an unbelievable SB in my college town.   They're better looking than the touring porn stars on P411.  Since you refuse to pay anything for that first date, I wonder if we're meeting the same type of SB.  

 IMO: Unless you look like George Clooney,  why would a top tier SB go on a free date with anyone from a sugar site.  She can get a free date with guys her own age, who are younger & better looking than 99.9 % of SDs.  A top-tier SB is on the site to find someone who can take care of her.  You & a zillion other guys are hitting her up for a free date.  She's not going to waste her time. --z

That has not been my experience.   The sugar babies I've met are thoroughly fed up with guys their own age, no matter how good looking they may be.  The girls report that guys their own age are immature and cheap-ass to boot.  So yeah, they prefer meeting me for coffee, for free, to meeting a guy their own age.  They are hoping they will like me well enough to get into an arrangement and earn some money doing it.  I've read some posts on these boards from guys saying they would never do an overnight date with a provider because they refuse to pay a girl to sleep.  Well, maybe I'm in the minority, but I would never pay a girl to just meet for coffee.  Granted, maybe I'd feel differently if I had way more money than I have.  But I certainly feel like the SBs I've met are as "top tier" as I could possibly dream of.  YMMV!

I  just ran two searches, one for Dallas and one for NM.  I searched for just the ones in my preferred age group and appearance/performance range who charge $400 or less with new reviews in 2016.  The NM search resulted in a total of 24 hits of which many were actually visitors long gone, some were hundreds of miles away (it's a big state!) some were not attractive my my standards, etc.  Not a single one was both attractive to me and actually available!  The Dallas search, otoh, resulted in 10 pages of hits, over 140 profiles! Maybe I need to visit the big D more often!  (also Gambler, I envy your appetite and  stamina.  I think I'm very active and doing great if I have one date per week.)

and I think your definition of "top tier" is much different than mine. I don't want a "professional Sugar Baby" I want a hottie who I can have fun with. SB's get jaded the same as hookers, the more "professional" an SB is, the more likely she is to want to make real money at this.  

The perfect SB for me is someone who just got into this and has no idea that she is "supposed" to charge for the first date. Or she might be someone who has been around a while, but has wound up "dating" some controlling and demanding SD's and now would rather see someone she can actually enjoy being with, rather than someone up her ass (figuratively and literally. lol) all the time because he thinks that because he is paying her she needs to dance to his tune.

What you describe as "top tier" I would be more likely to describe as jaded or arrogant, just like HDHs in the hooker world, and just like in the hooker world I have never found $800 hr hookers to give any better experience than a $300 hr girl.

I think getting into a "bidding war" to speak is only a way to encourage a woman to look at you like a walking ATM. People (women) treat you the way you train them to treat you. If you start the relationship on this note, it never gets better, it's the foundation for how she is going to treat you from that point on.  

One other point where we probably differ is what we are looking for in an SB, you probably want "professionalism" and a regular, structured relationship with your SB/s, I don't need anything of the kind and I don't want "one SB" I want a rotation of hotties that I get to see and I certainly don't mind it when I drop one or two as there are plenty of new ones entering the scene every single day

Gambler I agree 100% with everything you said here!  We have exactly the same ideas about a perfect sugar baby and a perfect arrangement.  Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

My response was directed to Zangari, who gives good advice about the Sugar Bowl, but not necessarily advice that works for me from my own perspective, or yours either it appears.

It doesn't mean either of us are right or wrong, it's just a different perspective that we look at this from. I will further allow that I am the exception here, not Zangari or you for that matter. I doubt there are that many single/divorced guys who still have any reasonable expectation or even the desire to get laid every day. I am sure at some point my sex drive will wane and I won't want it as often as I do now as I already want sex less frequently than I did only a few short years ago when I wanted it several times a day. Actually I still "want" it several times a day, but if I were to actually "get it" several times a day, I wouldn't be capable of actually doing it as often as my poor horny little brain tells me I want it. lol

Greetings- glad to see the discussion reboot in this forum, as I have considered signing up on a couple "arrangement" sites but figured they were part/parcel dominated by escorts (of which i know how to find already w/out going thru another registration process), so have never gone beyond the first page of random profiles that these sites provide before requiring registration. But the recent threads on this board have renewed my interest.

 I am in the RDU area of Carolina North, and the standard hourly rate for gfe is typically 300, with some of the highly reviewed under age 30 independents and/or touring now charging 350-500. I have been seeing escorts for many years, and have reached a point as I have aged where an hour typically does not make for a relaxing and enjoyable experience. All of which makes for a rather hefty deduction from my bank account every 2-3 weeks.

Last year thru agencies I met two or three collegiate age ladies that told me their first experience as a pay for play date was thru sugar daddy sites. When I asked them how the financing was structured, they were vague and then said "trust me, it is better for both parties this way (escort rather than sugar arrangement) - less drama, no disagreements about how much is owed due to time and "activity" variance among dates, etc." I am guessing by that response at least one of them had an overbearing/doting sugar daddy such as you referenced.

I am interested in an arrangement by which the young lady joins me for boat ride, a concert, a game, etc  preceded with or followed by private play-time of maybe an hour and a half, without the cab fare ticking away the entire time we are together. So in effect I am talking about paying, say 300, for the hour and a half private time, to go along with picking up the tab on whatever entertainment/dining experience we might share, rather than being billed hourly for the public time as well as private time. I am with you on the ideal sugar baby: collegiate-type, non-jaded etc - I just did not think they actually were out there, at least in my area...

So, what is the typical price structure in the registration process to have access to profiles? Is it set up so that the option to pay via anonymous gift/prepaid debit cards (ala TER) is available?

Thanks in advance for any further insights anyone has to offer...

-- Modified on 6/13/2016 7:02:39 AM

 There's all kinds of drama & disagreements in the hobby.   Just hop over to the GD board, where  "Hobby Drama" is always playing.  You're also one click away from the Legal Corner, where there's a recent blackmail thread.    

 Oh yeah, Miss College SB is definitely in your area, which is prime College SB territory. She's not some unicorn that I've dreamed up.  She's been widely reported on in NY Times, CNN,  Vanity Fair, etc.  The big story here: Middle class college girls have been driven to the sugar sites by crushing student debt and low wages.  But here's the thing: there are hookers on these sugar sites as well--and they've always been there.  And some guys can't tell them apart. So you'll have to figure out who is who.  My rule of thumb:  If she's willing to fuck on a first date, then she's most likely a hooker.  That's what hookers do.      

It's a trivial thing to sign up to a sugar site,  it takes about 5 minutes, & my site is like $60 -- $70 a month.  That's very little money for a prospective SD, who's supposed to be loaded.  I don't know why this is slowing you down.  I rarely need to renew from month to month.  If you're a gentleman, reasonably fit, and dress well, then you can find a College SB within a month's time.  --z


-- Modified on 6/17/2016 3:21:14 PM

I know hooker rates in your area are similar to mine, (Dallas Texas) and what you are describing is quite attainable at the rates you say are willing to spend.

While there are quite a few "top tier" as Zangari likes to call them SB's looking for a several thousand dollar a month commitment, my experience has been there are a lot more very happy with a few hundred bucks extra each week, especially if it's a few hundred bucks they can count on every week and have some fun (treated well) in the process.

My experience is that there are quite a few young ladies quite content to spend the entire night for $500 or even less if she likes you. Truthfully, the MOST I have spent for an overnight date, (excluding dinner, drinks, entertainment, etc) has been $500, A lot of them have been as low as $300, but I think $300 is more likely to get you the multi hour date you are talking about, not an overnight.

As for a SB turned hooker discouraging you from seeing SB's, can you blame her? It's like a $150 hour BP woman suddenly discovering she can get twice that using P 411 and TER. Why would she want to tell you something against her own self interest? A lot  of SB's figure out they can make more money by simply admitting to themselves that what they are doing is no different than a hooker, but that hookers can get more money. There is nothing wrong with that and I love hookers too, but quite frankly the Sugar Bowl is much less expensive on an "hour by hour" basis.  

Lastly I pay $69 a month to keep my premium membership on SA, I don't let it lapse because unlike some SD's, I like to keep a rotation of 4-5 different SB's and I am constantly replacing the ones I get tired of. It would be quite easy however to find one SB to see every week for a long term "arrangement" but I am a pig and I am rarely satisfied with seeing just one woman. If that's what I was looking for I am quite capable of finding a GF, but different strokes...