Going to Tampa soon an have sent messages to several girls who say they'd like to meet. I'd like to know how much of an allowance they expect if the date continues. They all pretty much say, let's talk at dinner. I'd rather know now than when having dinner.  If I offer 300 an they say 500-700 then we both leave with no benefits but a meal. Thoughts?

Why waste each others time if you arent even close. Especially if you have a short time window. 300 should work in tampa. Have a pro set up as backup.

The shorter your trip, the more you need to pin down in advance.  I was tactfully able to get info on price, length of date, and menu beforehand.  See the thread(s) on finding an SB while traveling from about 2-3 weeks ago.  

I was hoping for $300 down there, but it seemed that the market was closer to $400, and some SBs wouldn't budge off of $500 or even $600. I found a DDG European immigrant from a distance away for $400.  She was great, but is no longer in the sugar world.  

If they want to discuss money over dinner, I wouldn't push too hard.  But ensure that they are willing to play for 2+ hours, or whatever time you want.  Try politely asking them what they like or dislike in the bedroom. I was able to screen out some who didn't kiss, do BJs, do DATY, etc.  At least you can narrow things down using criteria other than price.

Some SBs will be ready to go BCD on the spot.  Others prefer to wait until a second date.  Particularly since price has not been discussed, meet as many as you can early in your trip.  That leaves you time for a second date or to find a better option.

Generally speaking, you have leverage if you discuss over dinner--assuming you have self control and are willing to say "no."  Treat the SB to dinner, get her relaxed with a drink or two, establish rapport, present yourself as a nice guy, and flirt a little.  She'll have the choice of having fun, getting satisfied, and going home with some Benjamins or going home alone without any cash.  Make the choice easy for her.  She may be thinking that you'll be horny and willing to pay whatever.  This is where self-control come into play.

I was in touch with about 60 women in Tampa.  If you have questions on a few, feel free to PM me.

Have fun!

I don't SA while traveling, because first of all my trips are both short and far, few in between. That said, I come across potential SBs (I hate the acronym POT, it's stupid!) in my locale who invariably tell me about their experiences and one common theme has been the "traveling" type of SDs:

Those who resist, object and reject the notion are the ones who seek something more ongoing, notwithstanding the possible lack of attraction and / or the offer not being commensurate with the SB's desire and goals.

Those who are open to it, seem rather prefer to travel to the SD if he lives in a cosmopolitan city (surprise, surprise!) but in the absence of such possibility, will consider such offers when the SD is in her locale. I think the best way to frame your proposition is to address the issue as a "short term arrangement" based on attraction, chemistry and your offer. I don't believe that you will get some top shelf poon for $300 in the major metro areas, but then again what do I know?!

From my personal experience from the type of home grown potential SBs I have met, I would say that the ratio of them not being open to short term arrangement with an out of town visitor to being amenable to one has been 2:1 or even 3:1. As many have already alluded to, SA it just a numbers game and you will need to ramp up your numbers if you wish to play whilst traveling because the odds are less.

Part of the benefit of not settling on a "price" in advance is that if she likes you, sleeping with you since "she's already out" with you, even if it's for less money than she really wants, doesn't seem so bad "if" she likes you.

So if you have confidence that you are "not repulsive" and that she won't think fucking you is going to be a horribly bad experience for her, AND if you have the self control to say no to ridiculous asking prices, I am all for waiting until you meet to discuss price. If she really likes you, you might end up not even discussing money until the next morning or not at all. I had a POT SB who has NEVER discussed money and I've seen her a couple of dozen times. She's a college kid who lives in the dorms a couple of miles from me and she just accepts whatever I feel like giving her each time. So far she has never complained, and I have even told her that if she ever has an emergency and needs some help not to hesitate in calling me. So far the closest she has come to doing so was she told me she needed to go shopping for some school clothes, I think I spent about a 150 bucks on a dozen cheap items at Target and she was thrilled to death.  

Not all SB's are money grubbers, in my experience the less you treat them as hookers, ie a "transactional" relationship, the less they seem to demand in allowance.

We call them H-O-O-K-E-R-S  and God bless them. lol

and yes there are plenty on them on SA, like you said "it's just a numbers game" If you want to see three or four different women on a trip you might need to reach out to fifty different POT SBs' (I didn't coin the acronym, if you even want to call it an acronym, but it works)  to find a handful that will agree to something like this.

A word of advice for a higher hit ratio. I would consider "fudging a bit" and at least suggesting that you may consider repeat visits if you "hit it off" it does make it slightly less "hookerish" and might attract some non pros along with the quasi hookers.

Agreed--if the SB feels comfortable and likes you, the price can be very flexible.

I have not had the experience personally, but I know other guys who have had SBs with whom they never discussed money.  They just handed an envelope containing 2, 3, or 4 Bens at the end of the date.  Most of the SBs came back for more.  

Suggesting multiple dates on the visit in question or the possibility of repeat visits can alleviate the problem of being a one-time visitor.  

I have no idea what the ratio is of those who are open to a short-term visitor to those who are opposed in principle, but I got the impression that I didn't lose all that many for that reason.  You're thinking the loss is 60-75%.  I got the impression that it was more like 20-35%, at least for a guy who was honest and polite.  

I definitely agree about the numbers game.  These are very rough numbers from a recent trip:

60 SBs contacted

50 SBs read my message

30 SBs replied (only a few declined immediately)

20 SBs continued some form of communication

16 SBs were available when I was there

12 SBs agreed to 2+ hours of adult play

8 SBs offered a menu I liked (some said no anal, which didn't bother me, but some said no BJ or DATY)

4 SBs were in my price range

1 SB was my final selection

As you can see, there is lot of winnowing at various stages.

tells different buyers with different tastes, what they would like to hear. I buy in my own local market, so I have no doubt that I am presented with a different bill of goods.  

That said, my face-to-face convos normally start quite casually and I may just throw in something like, "how do you like the site or how's this method treating you and your expectations?". Since my framing is nonchalant and benign, they just tell me about their experiences and most often I hear things like, "met a guy from NY, Dallas, etc who wanted to see me when he travels down here and that wouldn't work for me because..." I never express an opinion because I want to seem the least vested as possible in other potential SDs. I just listen, nod and then change the subject if I detect that the convo is going into the dark side by saying something like, "I'm going to set the bar so high that you will just be all over me!". A little bit of boyish brashness has always been effective in my stylistic approach.

To me, if a girl you meet on SA is amenable to fcuking just the one time and you leave her an envelop on the side of her bed, she's a hooker no matter how many different ways she plays lingual gymnastics. Of course, I do not tell them this out of respect for really honest hookers who do not beat around the bush in order to elevate themselves above others because of their own self-loathing traits, but it is always good to see that BS coming from a distance. I feel that it was very important that I had gained some savvy in the game approaching it from the monger side of the field!

EOM.

I try to give people what they want, or at least attempt to make what I have to sell become as close to what they want as possible.  

Customer "I want a green one"

Bad Salesman "I have a really nice blue one"

Good salesman "I can paint the blue one green"

Better salesman "If I can get you a green one do we have a deal?"

 
People when allowed to speak and actually listened to will always tell you what is important to them. the key is to actually listen. When I hear a POT SB tell me the last guy treated her like a whore by immediately asking her "how much?" I can guarantee you, my next question is going to have NOTHING to do with money. lol

END OF MESSAGE

Tampa.

My numbers for NYC were roughly similar.  Multiply everything by 0.8 and you'll get roughly my NYC data.

Classic rookie mistake to think you need a great intro speech. You just need to open up the space for her to open up. Something as stupid as "You must be getting a lot of messages from pervs like me." More than half the time, you'll get back something like "You don't seem like a perv. Let me tell you what some guy told me the other day..." Now you're just listening and learning all the things that turn her off. Doesn't guarantee you won't get shot down later, but it sure gives you a leg up (see what I did there?) ; )

-- Modified on 3/16/2017 7:29:29 PM

If you read through all the replies you can glean a few themes which I agree with. Here's what I read, plus some thoughts of my own:  

1. Listen 90% more than you speak.  
2. Use simple, open ended questions that will motivate thoughtful responses rather than "yes" or "no" replies.  
- How has your experience with the site been going?
- Tell me about your best (worst) date so far?
- What are you hoping to get from the site?  
- How did your last arrangement work?  
- What are your long term goals and aspirations for life.  
- How do you feel about having someone with experience helping you with career and life advice?  
3. Fudge your experiences away from high volume and shitty experiences. Say you've only met a few that really connected and we had a lot of fun together. Say you have some great memories and still have good friends who have moved on in their life. They will want to hear your worst horror stories - DONT GO THERE! If you go too far into the "crazy bitch" stuff you will do two bad things: 1. Make her wonder if the problem is you, and 2. Possibly put you in the SD equivalent of the "friend zone". No SB hottie wants to bang a loser, even a rich loser.
4. If asked, describe your ideal arrangement do so only at a high level; dinner, activity (movie/shopping, etc.) adult fun + help with bills.  
5. As far as she knows, you are and will be travelling to her city frequently and want to find something that can be long term.  Note that you heard from a few SB's in her city (be vague on who messaged who), but you really want to focus on the one SB that has the best connection with you (i.e.: implying that the best fuck wins).
6. If time permits a second meeting during you trip use, that to close if you think she's not ready to BCD now.  
7. Do not bring up sex, sugar, or P4P first. Important. She needs to know you are NOT just looking to get laid, but you want a real connection! Focus on who she is, what she likes, how she feels, blah, blah, blah. Like #1 says, listen more than you speak.  
8. Since you absolutely ARE just looking to get laid, always have a back up Pro you can call. Preferably one who accepts last-minute appointments or a reliable agency that can send a qualified sub if your primary is not available.  
9. Other topics to avoid: Politics, religion, prostitution, marriage
10. On negotiating sugar, use the same guidelines as previously posted. Mainly:  
- It's about your budget, NOT her "worth".  
- Always couch your offer as "we do these activities (non-sex and adult fun) and I'll help you with some bills or buy you some presents you need." Stay away from quid pro quo cash for sex, unless you'd like to tour the local jail cells.  

Personally, when I was trying hard to lock down a SB in multiple cities (Austin, Baltimore, Chicago) I had about a 50% conversion rate to BCD.  Never met the same SB again when I went back to those cities.  

Good luck. Please report back with your experience. We are all still learning here.

END OF MESSAGE

Still in contact with several an of course several have dropped out. But I'm still trying.

You might be set on the Sugar world but with a short time they're in such a amazing selection to choose from finding a great provider or two would be far more efficient.  I've always tried to make up a reason to go to Tampa because of all of the amazing talent there.

Whom do you like?  I looked at providers first and thought that most of the highly rated locals were MILFs, which was not what I was looking for.  Farrah in Orlando looked great, but she was a little too far.

I have been looking at them. I was just looking to hang out with someone a bit longer. Possible overnight an hopefully get a better rate.

but, thanks for the great advice.

If you go to text or WA, you should be able to clear this up after a few days of conversation. If traveling, I always video chat with the “potential” before locking in a date. For Tampa I would budget 400 but 300 exists I’m sure.  
Myskyns

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Molasses_Flood
Great Molasses Flood (Boston) of 1919

100 Years Later, 2019, ...
http://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/breaking-news/highway-a-sweet-mess-after-40000-pounds-of-liquid-chocolate-spills-from-tanker-164637.aspx
Highway a sweet mess after 40,000 pounds of liquid chocolate spills from tanker.