I love a provider.  Won’t say “fell in love with” because it signifies lack of control in my mind and flies against the very rational person I believe I am.  

Question #1 is, what do I do about it?  The provider knows because I’ve told and shown her over our relationship of more than a couple years although I don’t think she understands how deep these feelings flow.  The provider is an absolutely wonderful person that I have seen and done things with, but have not have sex with, off the clock.  Says she doesn’t want to ruin my marriage and yes.  I know her problems and have been with her on her best of days and her worst of days which seems to make my feelings for her even stronger.

Have read everything that has been written here about such relationships over the last few years but I still have a problem.  I’m married and love my wife but my passion is for the provider and I want to be with her.  I’m no novice to the hobby.  But this passion makes me feel so alive, is something I never thought I’d feel again, and something I truly appreciate after finding it again 25 years later.

I  know the chance of it working out with the provider as a couple is slim to none.  Never one to play it safe, I can’t help but constantly think about taking the chance.  Key word there was “constantly.”  Would she?  I think could sway her to give it a shot in time.  Do I want her to give up being a provider?  No.  We’ve talked about sexually open relationships with some limitations and both think that’s what we’d prefer.

My problem?  I’ve tried for years to succumb to my more “rational” side that says keep the relationship with the provider in proper perspective while thinking that the passion would subside and my thoughts of making truly life altering decisions would disappear.  They have not.  Instead, I feel more and more trapped at home.  There’s no sexual desire for the wife and I don’t think that will change given she just does not and probably never will have the capacity to match me sexually although I’m not sexually weird by TER standards at least.  

BTW, she does not realize she lacks sexual skill or the understanding of how to please a man although she will try to please me every now and then.  I haven’t had the heart to let on just how completely unsatisfied I am although we’ve talked enough for her to know I think our sex life is lacking.  To sum it up, sometimes you know a person can’t handle knowing some things, so I get my satisfaction via the hobby without her knowledge.

Question #2 is, can LG or someone else here tell me something that will help me get over this?  It’s starting to tear me up inside.  Don’t want to act foolishly and don’t want to devastate the wife either.  She could not handle the whole truth.  I just want to be happy and at the same time don’t want to look back later and have to say I was a total idiot.

There are a lot of issues here, above and beyond your love of this woman.  You seem to be assuming certain things about your lady - that she feels something toward you, that you and she could become an item, a couple.

This is wrong and an insult to your lady friend.  She has chosen to accept men as lovers -without complications, without commitments.  You are imposing your feelings, or your wants, on her (sorry).  You are seeing an idealized future.  But that future does not exist.  

You've tried to rationalize your commitment but wanting to give advice - on how you are not satisfied, how you long for more.  It's not clear how she has reacted to what you have told her before.  There doesn't seem to be any recipricocity.  

It's time to face the facts.  You need to do one of two things.  Either confront her and ask if she has feelings for you (being prepared to reject the more-or-less standard answer), or stop your relationship.  Get away, wait at least 6 months, and reconsider.

Sorry to be blunt.

first i think that it would be better to try to be more open with your wife about what is pleasing and what is not. people can surprise you, even the ones you think you know so very well. you may wish to reconsider keeping your wife in the dark about how you view your sex life. you don't need to be cruel. but on the other hand your "knowledge" that she "can't handle" communication reads like it may be an untested prejudice on your part rather than a tested fact. if you have tested improving communications with her that is another thing.

second, with the provider and your feelings.... nothing lasts forever. eventually every relationship or feeling ends. if you aren't ready to back away, don't. ride the wave and see if the consequences are to your liking. i wouldn't presume to push for something that she has not indicated is a definite possibility, though. you may wish to communicate more clearly with her also and see what she sees as possible future outcomes.

her job is hard enough. one phrase that troubles me in your post is the reference that you think you could sway her to give it a shot in time.

i think that pairings based on persuasions and swayings sound a bit artificial to me and kind of not worth the effort. it is like trying to make an tree grow by yanking on it. much better to give it time and let it happen naturally.

If so, then I guess we can say that the honeymoon phase is over.

Often clients write in to say that they been seeing a certain provider for a few weeks or months and are in love.  My advice to them is to enjoy the provider's company as long as you can knowing that once the chemical attraction phase is over (The mind and body become inured to it, just like any other drug.) you can then sail along to the next port of call.

However, this is something else.

Other than sexual skills, can you express what it is about the provider that attracts you so?  You mention that she is wonderful, but that's a bit vague.

It might be that a major change in your life is the best route, but are you prepared for the agony of divorce, not to mention the expense?  (I've been through it and it ain't pretty, and mine was an "amicable" parting.)

Are there kids involved in your family and are you prepared for the consequences of that?

I suggest that you spend some time with a councellor of some type to collect your thinking.  It is also a question as to whether this provider is willing to become a part of your life.

Maybe the best thing to do is keep the good old status quo and enjoy the provider whenever you can, realizing that in life, things are never as perfect as you want, but as the Stones said in their wonderful song:  "Sometimes, you get what you need."

Best of luck with all this.

Would it help to tell you it's all a fantasy?

You're really in love. Love hurts. You'll get over it.

-- Modified on 1/2/2009 9:44:28 PM

Hi LoveHurts,

I've been there actually a couple times and am very similar to you in marital situation.  I'll give you my thoughts and experiences.  You obviously aren't a novice and obviously have read and heard all the advice given on these forums against such relationships- so I won't belabor you with too much more there.

I ignored all the advice and became 'beyond the bounds' in closeness with several providers over time- one I was head over heals in love, had a full affair with and would have left my wife for her.  

I learned early on in my hobby experience that I absolutely love the direct, open, accepting, 'living on the edge' personality that many really good GFE providers have.  

On beyond boundary relationships with providers- I am all for it....IF.... you can handle it.  I had to learn very early that it takes a totally non-possessive ability on my part... I had to hold those relationships with an open palm.  I had to love them truly meaning not possess them, and to be able to let it be totally on their terms and comfort level.  The result has been some great ongoing friendships-  but not fully developed until the sex and client relationship stopped.  Then the true friendship happened... and there was some conflict and sometimes temporary disruption of the relationships during the transition from client to friendship.  Three of these friendships have survived and are ongoing.

Now... the one I fell in love with, would have left my wife for..... We had a brief four month fling that really flourished during travel together.  However, the realities of trying to make it work when in town where my extramarital time had to be closely guarded hit the relationship hard.  

We had talked extensively about how to make the relationship work through the marriage end and survive after.  Crucial to this was that she did not want to be the reason for the marriage end such that my kids would forever hate her which in retrospect was very pertinant.  She knew how valuable my kids were to me and the toll that an estranged relationship with them would take on the relationship.  Ultimately she went back to a boyfriend who was available for security and we eventually lost contact.  

What I've observed from that and in two other provider relationships I've had since is that there is no way for you to know how the relationship would do until you have truly left your marriage first and are really fully available.  Until that time, the full reality of being together can not truly impact either her or you-  it is just pretend until you have already made the leap.  

No matter how much you say you have seen the good and the bad.... it is still framed in the perspective for both of you that you are not truly available right now.  And that does make it an unreal perspective.

Also, My observation.... fair or not... based on several relationships with providers....

is that women in the P4P world ultimately hold men as a commodity to serve their needs which means that you will ultimately be expendable.  No matter how much they think they care for you or how much you illusion yourself that they care for you... there is some of that reality that will always be on your mind and theirs, consciously or subconsciously.

You can not know what her feelings are on what you are considering until you fully confront her with those feelings.  If you are truly considering leaving your wife and family for her you must tell her so.... that is the only way you'll find out for sure how she feels.  You may be very unpleasantly surprised.... prepare for that.

Finally, I urge you to look at your marriage and any decision you may make there and your desires for a relationship with her as totally separate issues.

You must decide once and for all if you are ready to leave the marriage simply because there is not enough there to keep you happy over the long haul.  That is the only way you can leave and be content regardless of how your relationship with the provider goes after that.  Otherwise you are setting yourself up for regret and disillusionment if you leave for someone else and that doesn't work out.

One last thought..... your marriage is not unsatisfactory just because of your wife.... your issues play in there too and those issues go with you in to the next relationship unless you've resolved them.  And those issues sometimes cause you to find someone very similar to your wife hidden under more attractive skin.  Scary thought!  I had a close friend in the hobby who I talked with extensively when in the 'in love' relationship with the one I fell the hardest for and one of the things I recall telling him is she had some of the same irritating faults my wife had!

Long-winded... sorry, hope you find some benefit there!  Good Luck!



-- Modified on 1/2/2009 10:12:28 PM

-- Modified on 1/2/2009 10:16:01 PM

try what I always ask people when "I do what I do" for a living.

I ask:  Know anybody who's done what you want to do?
Did it work?  
Why or why not?

Since you haven't responded to LG about the demographics of your family just think about adding ANOTHER family (hers) to the mix.  What does that do to your life..because you get more than her with a new deal.

Got lots of money?  You'll need it.
You get together with her....does she retire?

As another wise TER poster said in this string...."you are in love with being in love."

Lastly....practice out loud in front of a mirror, the speech you are going to give your wife.

Report back.

Dear LoveHurts,

Here are my answers as follows:

Question #1 is, what do I do about it?

A) go on as is and continue to live a fantasy life in your head
B) stop seeing this provider and get over it

Since the provider apparently is not interested in having an off-the-clock relationship with you, I don't see that you have much leverage in the situation. "Sway her to give it a shot in time?" What infinite narcissistic delusion. Sorry, but I can't offer anything else but sarcasm here. I'm sure you understand why.

Question #2 is, can LG or someone else here tell me something that will help me get over this?

A) see a therapist to begin some serious self-examination
B) tell your wife the truth, since you "feel trapped at home"

Option B is probably the fastest route to getting over this issue. Your wife will have some sort of reaction, you will finally enter into a much more authentic life space and therefore will stop fantasizing, and you will finally GET REAL with yourself. The whole issue with the provider is a refuge from the reality of living in what appears to be a dysfunctional marriage and not facing the music. "I haven’t had the heart to let on just how completely unsatisfied I am although we’ve talked enough for her to know I think our sex life is lacking." HUH? The point is, if you don't give your wife a chance to find out EXACTLY what the problem is, how is she supposed to contribute to a solution? This is not about "talking," this is about communicating deeply. Of course, if all you need is a better sex life, then by Jove, divorce your wife and go out there and find someone else to bang for free...unless the paid method works better, then stick with that. But as long as you are in an unsatisfactory marriage, the "other woman" - provider or civvie - is always going to be a more attractive, fantasy-filled option.

Another case of wanting your cake and eating it too,
the Love Goddess (sigh)

i have a similar problem, been seeing the same provider weekly since august, the sex isn't the greatest but she is so sweet and loving toward me it just knocks me out. we email and text daily
but i don't know if she just thinks of me as a nice generous customer or a lover. i haven't asked her point blank because i'm afraid she will just say you are a nice guy - not my ATF.
i haven't seen many providers but i guess i am really looking for a relationship. I have had great sex with some providers but no feelings so i don't go back, im stuck on this one.

I don't call it a problem but my situation is similar.  I really connected with a provider who is now my ATF and we text or talk daily.  I see her for sessions at least 3x a month but also socially off the clock for lunch or to help her with a problem she might have.  It truly is a relationship that I cherish.  I'm really stuck on her.

Ask yourself, are you ready to change everything in your life to be with the lady (provider) in question?  If not, you need to see a marriage counselor and maybe take a break from the provider.  If so, talk to the provider first and find out once and for all where you stand.  If she's not interested in persuing a personal relationship, you don't want to find out after you ended your marriage.

Fantasy is nice.  But if you're confusing it with reality, that's a problem.

As you'll read in my reply above, I've had several provider relationships go that way over time.

My advice from my experience.... enjoy what you have fully with an open hand and no expectations or hopes for anything more and it'll be a very satisfying friendship.

Each one I experienced where either her hopes or my hopes for something more ran a rocky road until we got bck to the point of just appreciating and enjoying the friendship and/or sex.

I've recently found one that I see mostly, text or talk to frequently, and am thoroughly enjoying even better than past favorites because I've learned!  

Don't take a great thing and f*** it up with expectations or long term hopes!

One of my longer term favorite providers said it best about our friendship and mutual enjoyment of the sex:  "Why would I want to take a great friendship and great sex situation where I am getting paid too and exchange it for a freebie that will crash and burn!"  Made sense to me!

based on experience the most helpful here.  I do recognize the realities of such a situation and the potential motivations and outcomes for all parties involved.

Still, I really do love the provider and that is no fantasy.  At the same time, believe me when I say I know love don't pay the bills.  Mine or theirs.  

Mr. Fisher reference to the Stones said it best.  In the end, I know this too shall pass.  The thing I find amazing right now is how long it is taking to pass.

Thanks all.

its difficult to have a real relationship with a Lady in this business. It's a fantasy that you are living in, and more than even you know. Many men who feel they would be "ok" with it, being able to accept it and all...right now you say that, and I think you believe it, but you are not in a possition to really know. You are both living seperate lives and no matter how close either of you feel you are, you are a client, thats really the role you play right now, so accepting what she does and so on is simple for you to accept.
She is not the cure for all your relationship woes its true and has been said already, you are half of your marriage, if theres poor communication half that fact you own. Leaving your wife to live a wonderful perfect life with this Companion whats to say the communication will be better, already you don't seem to be communicating with her about how you really feel and how deeply.
It seems at times the Ladies here are fickle, this business is fickle. Its not a reality as all enter it knowing so and with that its easy to feel it may work could work and so on.
You gentlemen see the best of us. You don't deal with our real lives, troubles and so on. You don't see us bitchy and sick or what not. Now thats the real world. We are on our best behavior when with our clients, we are acting to some degree. Not that we are faking it, but we are not always as candid as we are in our real life with our real friends. Holding our tongue so to speak. Its not real.
Sounds like its time to step away for a while.
I would think its also time to be honest with your wife who deserves your honesty, not about your extra activities but about your marriage for sure. Not really fair to try and figure out if you are done with this relationship when you have not given her the option to know what all your issues are.
The fantasy sounds great is a lot of fun but when it becomes a reality all the mondain normal issues which you r dealing with  with your wife...get dragged into the fantasy. Not so perfect any more is it.

How does this apply to a single, never married guy ? I have seen someone who is 40 , a veteran of at least 8 years , the vibe is great, this vibe is not because of the sex .  I just have a great feel for how we get along, she started to send me texts, this is throwing me a hell of a curve, these are only mostly jokes or dirty things . I'm trying not to call her or anything, as the time i see her is only about every 4 weeks, as we are hours apart , my mind says to totally ignore it , but she knows she has to stop sometime, she mentioned it the first time as we discussed ages . Is she only sending me texts, because I'm a very young 50 , and she wants to add me to the good regular list ? Very confused, don't expect to get a real good answer , as there probably is not a good answer .