I have had 2 SB’s in the last 4-5 years. One was with a TER type that I had seen 10 plus times before SB'ing her up and the other a totally UTR college senior needing a SD to step in and get her to the finish line of graduation.

 
The latter was the best overall sexual experience I have ever had, and that is saying a lot as I am fortunate to have had met quite a few skilled hotties in my time in p4p. Model looks, flawless body, sweet disposition, submissive, fun loving, sane, etc. Really everything I could have ever asked for in a girl.  

 
When I go back  a few months and read this board, it seems like there is quite a bit of time, and a bit of frustration, finding the right SB. What is it, being totally inexperienced with sites like SA, and this style of SB/SD, that I am missing?

 
Is it something just as simple as “the hunt?” Is it that they are not “pros” and thus it feels more like a civil fuck? This style of SB/SD seems not to be a good fit for me personally, but I don’t want to judge something I have no experience in.

 
So what draws you to this type of p4p, what keeps you in it, and what advice would you give me, considering my concerns listed above?

What concerns  did you espouse?

No, I only brag when I pay for pussy at a discount. LOL

 
As for my concerns, try reading paragraph #3 again.

END OF MESSAGE

One of the changes I have seen in the past year is the dramatic increase in numbers of SBs, new to sugaring and new to SA, who truly believe there are guys out there who will pay them for the privilege of taking them to dinner, shopping, and just hanging out.  I'm not even including travel and more exotic spoiling.  Basically, "regular" girls who have "heard" that they can get an allowance just because they are young and cute.  They come on the board, post a profile, may or may not mention this concept of platonic only, communicate every couple of days, and then are gone as they realize we want sex.  I am so thankful for the ones who "get it." While they may flake, they know the market and understand what a reasonable request is.  While I think their  numbers, in total, are the same as they were before, they have now got mixed in with this influx of naive dreamers.  Just makes the hunt more time consuming

I just spent several days messaging back and forth with a girl that quite frankly I was on the fence about where it came to her looks. She was pretty enough, but I could tell she was going to be a bit "thicker" than I prefer. I still was planning on meeting with her because she seemed like fun, plus she was a "level one sommelier" and I am a bit of a wino, so I thought if nothing else we might have some fun drinking a bottle or two together and I might relax my standards for weight if we "clicked" in that manner.

 
As we are trying to think of a place where we could find a decent bottle or two of wine to share while we "got to know each other" that evening all of a sudden she springs this "$200 gift" to show I valued "her time" bullshit. Well that certainly pushed me off the fence. lol

 
That was the bad news, now for the good news, the very night before another girl had checked me out for the first time, and right after delusional POT SB pulled her crap on me, I reached out to THAT girl and within just a few hours of my first message found myself balls deep inside of her. We spent  a fun couple of hours BCD and even including the room and a small bottle of Crown that we shared I wasn't out a lot more than the other BSC POT SB wanted simply to "meet"  

 
I guess the Sugar Bowl giveth and the Sugar Bowl taketh away. lol It all balances out IMHO

I actually wouldn't mind the shopping, dinner, lunches, IF after I spent a few hundred bucks, I knew I would be getting laid later on the money I already spent, but it sounds like there is considerable chat time JUST to determine if you are compatible and there are no guarantees.

 
I guess if I were into it more for "the connection" I would be more interested, but for me, the connection HAS to lead to sex or come afterwards. I like OTC time, and I like long dates, so this is more than "just the sex" for me, but I also need a "sure thing" and it just doesn't seem that is what SA style of SB can offer me.

Over the last year and a half or so I have been living "mainly" in the Sugar World. I have met with a "few dozen" different POT SB's during that period of time and to date, besides meals and drinks of course, I have spent a grand total of $70 cash and one free tank of gas on women that I did not fuck.  

 
I gave one girl Fifty bucks because she was quite frankly in such a pitiful situation I just felt sorry for her. I gave another twenty bucks because she was out of gas worried she might run out of gas on the way home (probably a lie, but WTF, it was only twenty bucks)  and the free tank of gas went to a girl who I was supposed to go out with the next night who I am sure would have fucked me, but after meeting her in person, it was I who changed my mind about the date.

 
My actual success rate in getting POT SB's into bed is VERY high considering I am not one of those guys who likes to negotiate an "allowance" in advance. Call me cocky, but I am convinced I can get a better rate after she meets me that I can "sight unseen" I am a firm believer that that more repulsive you are and the less game you have, the more money you are going to have to pay to get in her pants. I pride myself on being "not repulsive", and I further believe I have at least decent game and the way I play the game I get a lot of SB's who hate being treated like a hooker, but are predisposed to having sex for money as long as the guy meets certain minimum standards and doesn't treat her like a piece of meat. I am sure that if I vetted the girls more thoroughly like some of the guys do, I could probably achieve close to 100% closing ratio, but I know I would have missed out on several of the girls who turned out to be the very best fucks.

using SA and finding SB's is that there are very very few quality pros that visit my area and there are none here full time.  So, I "hunt" the SBs for pussy.  So let me list a couple of pros and cons of each:

SB Pros
1) many in my area
2) cheaper  
3) will spend time with you

SB Cons
1) not pros and experience not nearly as good
2) flakier
3) requires higher time investment

Pro Pros
1) know what the fuck they are doing in the bedroom
2) less time investment
3) better overall experience

Pro Cons
1) cost more
2) time is money
3) availability in my area

On balance, i would gladly pay more for a session with a pro that is dependable and takes care of you.

I've culled out the time wasters by using these two posts:

My first post is:  What sort of arrangement are you looking for?

If I get a vague answer like IDK, etc., etc.  

My second post is:  I'm looking for an intimate, discreet, BCD arrangement at first and we can go from there.

If they respond, I follow through  If not, I've not wasted time.

Im usually too busy to play in the sugar bowl, but this summer and last summer I was able to make time and dabble a bit. Met 5 girls last summer and banged the two I was interested in. Got great mileage out of both and still sometimes see them for free.  This summer I went crazy and banged like 9 SBs in a month.  Most were bargains. Overpaid on one DDG stripper who was really unique (unusually petite), meaning I would never find the likes of her in the P4P world or anywhere else.  Still probably about half of what a pro charges for overnights and she'll hopefully see me for less in the future.  

The key is to be very straight forward and if you're attractive, don't discuss price till you meet.  I don't think I'll end up overpaying again and you can cover the flakiness by not booking the room till last minute or knowing you have another girl on standby.  Obviously, never pay out unless you've banged.

I know I'll hop back into the sugar bowl as soon as I'm done with my current harem.  I also haven't exactly left the pro world.  Why limit yourself to one or the other? Both are really the same to me since I've gotten a couple of pros to act like my SBs in the past

"IF" you are attractive, or in my case "not repulsive" and with a decent amount of game, try not to do any price negotiations until in person.  

 
Look at it this way, if you negotiate a "price" sight unseen, she is agreeing to fuck anyone who doesn't look like the elephant man at that rate. If you think you are "above average" chances are you can negotiate a better deal. Whether that is more time, a lower price, an above average guy is going to get a better deal than a below average guy. OTOH if you do look like the elephant man or if you have ZERO social graces and/or you simply don't know how to talk to women, then by all means do your negotiations in advance.

Lmao..the elephant man. Guess I'm screwed..wink

We really need a place on line, city specific, where we can rate these girls. This week alone I had 3 (yes 3) I met after having determined they were in search of genuine long term arrangements, only to find out they were serial hookers who ghosted on me after getting laid once. Admittedly I compensate at the low end of the scale, but they know this in advance.

Due mostly to age, I think I am closer to the elephant man than above average.  If I can negotiate my rate in advance, and our meet and greet is successful, I'm golden.

While I have never been GQ material, not even in my youth. I have been blessed with good genes and I don't look anywhere near my actual age. It makes me very confident that if a POT SB has agreed to see me, knowing my real age of 58, that she is not going to be disappointed that I look too old for her. OTOH, if I tried to pass myself off as 45, (about the youngest age I could reasonably pass for) I know I would run the very real risk that some women might be turned off by the fact I misrepresented myself by almost 15 years.

 
I do own a mirror and I don't consider myself "above average" in looks if we lump ALL guys 18-80 into the mix, but I do consider myself well above average in the "60sh" category.

Than "better looking, younger guys get better rates".  

Yes, looks are part of the equation. But so are her looks, her reason for getting into the sugar bowl, your location/market, competition from other POT SB's in the area, your definition of BCD (time, activities, travel, etc.), and more.  

Each of these factors is a lever on the negotiating process. I'm pretty sure I  tend to be older and fatter than the "average" guy trying to bed a 18-35 yr old hottie (I just can't go older than 35 - way too much baggage).  Don't really think I'm ugly, and I have charm, a dry sense of humor and lots of experience projecting confidence. So maybe these help me compensate for being an OFF (Old Fat Fuck) at 55.  I have been successful closing in the 300-400 range in Los Angeles, sometimes lower, and sometimes higher (max 500 only for all the right reasons).  

I have a close rate around 75% of the SB's I want to fuck. And I still have 3 to 6 POT SB's waiting in the wings at any given time.  I'll be taking a new SB BCD tomorrow night.  25 yrs old, petite AA with perky C's, tiny waist, apple-but and willing to use FC2 to keep me happy. 400 for the night.  She's a substitute school teacher and aspiring actress (been in two TV shows according to her IMDB). And I have an UTR 23-yr old porn star lined up as a backup who was referred to me by a 19-yr old porn star I met at AVN.  

Life is good.