LG, can you explain to me why we are supposed to feel sorry for fat women, when they have a problem that is fixable. They act like they have cancer, and there is no cure. There is this fat  girl at my job, that wants to date me, but im not attracted to her, because she is about 200 pounds. I told a girl at work that i wasnt attracted to her, and she said i shouldnt judge her on her appearance. I did not say she was a bad person, because she was fat. I just told her girlfriend that i wasnt sexually attracted to her. Why am i a bad guy for not wanting to be with someone that i dont find attractive. What am i supposed to do? Go out with her, so i dont hurt her feelings.If you have a pretty face, and you let yourself go, that is your problem.  not mine. You dont have aids. Go to the gym and make yourself more attractive.

Dear brazil21,

First of all, there is no official directive that tells you that you are "supposed to feel sorry for fat women." Fat women come in all sorts of permutations - in fact, there doesn't even seem to be an agreement of what is considered "a fat woman." Granted, there is the governmental definition of obese, so if you are talking about obese people, then you can feel both sorry and alarmed, since it's a medical condition that qualifies for help. But if you are talking the movie star definition of what's fat, then 99% of the American population will qualify as fat, in comparison to the seriously anorexic movie and television star ideal that presently reigns in mass media. Fatness is culturally determined, don't forget that. What we think is "fat" qualifies as erotic and attractive in some other cultures. Also, some men are genuinely attracted to women who are considered "fat" in the dominant culture; however, you may not be one of them - and that's fine. Evolution has selected for traits in men that prefer women that are somewhere in the middle - not too fat, not too skinny. The key is the WHR, the waist-to-hip ratio which is a reliable indicator of fertility. Thus, a woman can be plump rather than skinny - as long as she has a small waist, men will find her attractive. It is only in a culture of overabundance such as ours that preferences for skinny women have evolved, mainly as a resistance to the fertility difficulties that obese women face. Men are hardwired to breed, breed and breed, so that's pretty much a no-brainer. But certainly, things have gotten out of hand and now visual images are filled with anorexics who are not necessarily healthy or fertile, judging from all the assisted reproduction going on with even young women such as Angelina Jolie et al.

Now, back to your specific dilemma. You are entitled to your opinion and preference, but why on earth do you discuss it with people at work? And on top of it, mentioning a specific person? This is bound to cause controversy, not only because it's the workplace and such things should NOT be discussed in a professional environment, but also because you chose to open up to the girl's friend. That was a mistake. In doing so, you triggered her friend's defenses. You denigrated, however subtly [or not, I wasn't there so I can't tell] the woman by indicating your lack of attraction for her. Her friend defended her and now you feel slighted in turn.

You are not "a bad guy" and you are not supposed to go out with someone you don't feel attracted to - that would be disingenuous. But by the same token, you also need to examine your belief that fat women "let themselves go," and thinking that "you don't have AIDS" is supposed to induce such women into action. Yes, it is true, many people lack the discipline that staying within recommended weight ranges demand in our society. But the problem is multi-factorial; to blame it on some kind of moral failing or laziness is just not intelligent. In fact, to me, this represents another kind of laziness, meaning one who is not really interested in finding out medical facts but simply looks at the superfice of it all and assumes that all fat women are lazy and don't go to the gym.

In addition, the heading of your posting contains some kind of hostility that is not really comprehensible to me. Are you saying that the fat women act patronizingly toward you because you don't want to go out with them? Or are you saying that fat women act self-righteously about their weight? In either case, my advice to you is to ignore it and not get riled up about it, because it will get you nowhere. Hence:

1. Quit discussing personal matters at work, no matter how boring it gets

2. Get on the Internet and begin reading up on the root causes of obesity. You will see that in our society where genes conflict with our lack of mobility, many people - not just women - will have weight problems

3. Try to engage your thinking on a deeper level - ask yourself why you become so vehement about fat women. What is it that triggers these emotions in you? Oftentimes, when we displace anger on a particular group of people, it's because we are dissatisfied with something in ourselves, whether it be appearance or abilities. Do you look like a perfect movie star? Are you flawless, in your mind?

4. And finally, realize that there are preferences for everything and anything. I personally don't understand the matrix of attraction in many people, but at this point, I've just let it go. There are so many more important things to worry about. For now, just count your blessings if you don't have to concern yourself with body weight, even if you can't "feel sorry" for those who are less fortunate, no matter what their gender.

Nature/nurture,
The Love Goddess

I learn more from you and this board than from many other things in my life.  Thank you.

Also, how can I learn to have your patience?  Is it an inherent trait or is it a skill that is nurtured and practiced?  Or is it a little of both.

Keep the goodness coming!

Most things in life are not as simple as we would like them to be. Obesity is most certainly one of those things.  I don't see how you could confuse a woman being interested in you as a plea for you to feel sorry for her.  Just say no thank you...

I see a lot of posts here on TEH that I want to respond to but I always try to wait until LG has weighed in. I'm always glad that I did.

As it is, you are rejecting a significant percenage of females with whom you could otherwise be finding some happiness with.

Now, I like bigger women, and at one time, I wasn't too interested in skinnier women.  

Then I became interested in a provider who used to post frequently on TER and I checked out her site.  To my dismay, she appeared to be almost anorexic, but since she seemed very appealing, personality-wise, I decided to give it a shot.

I'm very glad I did.  She really rocked my world.  I'm going to drive a long distance soon just to see her again.

Challenge your assumptions, you might be very glad you did.

Actually you got a lot of great advice. I would just and two more things: 1. Learn some diplomacy. 2. Exercise it.


Good luck!

LG, You made some incorrect assumptions. My fault for not being more clear.  I did not discuss it at work. It was after work, and she mentioned her friend to me.We were alone. #2 The genetics excuse is a fraud. genes play a part in a small % of people. being obese is not the same as being gay.I am shocked that you think all obese people are that way because of genes. They are emotional eaters. They eat when they are not hungry. they eat when they are sad and depressed.Its the snowball effect. I do understand why people are obese in this country.Watched many doc's on it.If you only eat when your hungry, and stop when your full, you will not be obese.America used to be the healthiest country in the world 50 years ago and now we are the fattest. Our genes dont evolve that fast. I know all about evolution.trust me.I am a science geek.It is our fast food society  today. people are less active. we sit on our ass more logging on to the internet and watching 100 cable channels.Look at how fat our kids are now. they dont go outside. they stay on the computer and play video games  all day.#3 I never said fat people are lazy.You did. I dont know where that came from.#4 she is obese. i said she was 200 pounds.she is 5'3.I AM attracted to bigger girls. just not obese girls. i think beyonce has a nice figure.she would not be considered "skinny" in today's society.#5 I DO have to concern myself with bodyweight. I also like to indulge in the excesses of america.That is  why i lift weights 2 times a week and walk as often as possible.I have to work at it, like everyone else in their 30's.#5 The hostility,as it came across, i think has to do with her always grabbing my arm and interlacing it with my arm as we walk back to the break room. She will say "what you dont like girls"I know she is kidding but keep your gay comments to yourself. Cant she tell by now im not interested.#6 I do think on a deeper level. that is why she likes me. I dont treat her bad, because she is obese. I am very friendly with her.She is a cool chick for the most part, but i am not sexually attracted to her. I  crack alot of jokes when we are sitting around talking.She is confusing my good natured personality with wanting to hook up with her. If i did some of the things she does to me, to  girls i was attracted to, i would get fired.

Dear brazil21,

If you are "a science geek," then you should know that it's neither nature or nurture, which is exactly what I explained in my response to you. I never stated in my response that "all obese people are that way because of genes." Where did you see this in my posting? It is a CONFLUENCE of inactivity [lack of mobility as I termed it] and genetic propensity to store fat. Have you ever heard of "the thrifty phenotype hypothesis?" Or insulin resistance? I suggest that you read up on these issues. But you are correct in that the unhealthy and inactive lifestyle in Western society and fast foods certainly contribute to the problem.

As to the setting of discussing with her friend, it doesn't matter if it's during work hours or after work hours. You should NOT discuss any interactions concerning personal feelings with either co-workers or their friends, period.

If you want to demonstrate your disinterest in a particular person, a simple "I don't like being touched physically" should suffice. You may also wish to inform her that touching a coworker is grounds for disciplinary action if it persists.

I still take intellectual exception at your generalizations of "they are emotional eaters." Some people suffer from various endocrinological disorders that cause weight gain, thyroid disorders being some of the most common. Other conditions for women include PCOS - polycystic ovarian syndrome which I'm sure I don't need to explain to you since you are a "science geek" who has "watched many docs" on the matter. In any event, not all obese people are emotional eaters, just the same as many people do have disciplinary problems with sticking to a diet - something I did imply in my posting as well.

Judging by your one-paragraph response, it still does display some vehemence in the matter, and that you are becoming emotionally affected by this issue. I suggest that if the attentions of this co-worker become troublesome, take it up with your supervisor for appropriate action. And do NOT speak to her friend or anyone else about your feelings concerning any co-workers. That only leads to trouble.

Hope that helps,
The Love Goddess

The vast majority of fat people are fat because they're lazy.  There is a small % of people who are fat because of genetic issues or disease.  Let's not wrap ourselves in uber political correctness.

I know all about the feast or famine theory of our ancestors. I understand they would store as much fat as they could, to help them through the lean times. Now, that is hurting us because we have so much food available. That still is not the reason why america is so fat. The main reasons are INACTIVITY and eating too much.PERIOD. There is a snowball effect. when someone gains alot of weight, and  feels bad about themselves, they use food as a coping mechanism. They go on a diet,lose some weight ,and when they gain it all back and then some,they get more depressed, and eat more to cope. Its a vicious cycle. They also dont know how to diet properly. when you starve yourself, your metabolism slows down to accommodate,but once you give in, and go back to eating like you did, you get fatter, because now you are eating the same way, but with a slower metabolism, than when you started.that will make you gain even more weight.One thing humans have that isnt mentioned,that helps us to regulate weight, is our brain telling us we are full. If you only eat when your body tells you its hungry and stop eating when your body says your full, and eat quality foods , you will NOT be obese.When you feed your baby, they tell you when they are full. they cant speak yet, but they know when they are full and will pull away.We still have that today. Only a small % of people have a medical condition, that causes them to be obese.If our genes from the feast or famine days were why we are so fat, why were people so skinny in the 1950's.In the 50's,  there were barely any tv's around,and if you had one, there were 3 channels. there were no computers, or video games.Mom's cooked at home, instead of going to fast food places, which there werent as many. food wasnt processed like it is now.Basicly, there wasnt shit to do back then, so you had to go outside and play, and the meals were better quality.PERIOD.The proof is in the pudding. I am sorry you want to make excuses for all the fat americans we have now, but it is our own fault.

-- Modified on 4/17/2009 7:23:34 PM

Anyone in this country, that thinks genetics are the reason why america is so fat, is a idiot.Read my other post. I have read probably 50 books on nutrition, weightlifting and dieting. I didnt mean if they just go to the gym there problems will be solved.that is just one thing that will help. The main thing is your diet. Lifting weights does  help preserve your muscle ,while you lose weight.When you lose weight fast, you lose muscle.thats not good.Muscle is metabolic. It burns calories 24/7. The more of it you have, the more calories you can lose by doing nothing.free weights are better than machines.If you add alot of muscle, and eat normal, you will lose weight w/o doing anything, if your diet is good. As a matter of fact, i would advise to not do cardio and concentrate on lifting weights and your diet. If you have time to do cardio,and like doing it, then go ahead, but if you concentrate on the first 2 things, you really dont need the third.

Who gives a crap if you don't want to date fat women.  Date who ever the hell you want to date.
Or better whoever the hell is foolish enough to want to date you.

Where is all your hostility coming from? Are you afraid obesity is contagious?  Were you a fat kid who was picked on?  More importantly, why would you be venting about "dating" here.  Go on Match.com or something like that, post your picture and good luck.

As a fat person and a food adict (like it or not compulsive overeating is an addiction) I can respect women who don't want to go out with me because of my size.(although I am cute and have a great sense of humnor)  Hell I would not want to go out with me because of my size.  Hell even when paying for it, I let the provider know in advance about my size so neither one of us is surprised or embarrased.

Your dismissivness that all fat people are lazy and the like shows your ignorance. As you can never know the history of a person.To make assumptions based on weight is as logical as making assumptions based on height or skin color.
Not being attracted, fine.  We allhave our likesand dislikes, but to feel the need to rant and put people down, my friend that is your shit.

What you call laziness may just be that sometimes it hurts too much to do the physical exercise that you demand.  It can also be painful when idiots feel the need to "share" their thoughts to perfect strangers because fucking with the fat guy is allowed.

I have lost and gained hundreds of pounds over the course of my life.  That is my problem not yours.

However, I can choose to have surgery tomorrow and in a year look reasonably normal.  The key word is "look". what goes on in my head you can never know.
On the other hand How many skinny people are alcoholics and drug addicts, and as we are on this board sex addicts?

You obviosly have some demons lurking, I would say below the surface but based on your posts they are out there.
Good luck in your future dating, and we will all assume that you will not be seeking BBW's.  I am sure the BBW world is heartbroken.

...if you already knew the answers?  At least, the only answers that you are willing to accept.

I never said fat people were lazy. That was someone else. I am sick of obese people crying about their weight on every talk show, and every news program.they want everyone to feel sorry for them.they get mad because men are not attracted to them and hate us for it. That is what i am sick of. They dont have a disease. they are not paralyzed,missing their legs, burned from a car accident. They have a problem that makes them depressed BUT they can fix it and dont. They HATE skinny people, especially thin women, because  guys pay them all the attention.Of course they assume they have better personalities than thin women, as if weight makes you a better person. If anyone is bitter and hateful its overweight people.You are proving that by your post.you are coming across angry. I never made fun of fat people in one post.                                                        I saw a overweight person on tv say they should get handicapped license's because they are obese. Shouldnt walking from a greater distance help them.This is the mentality i am talking about. at least you admit you are big because you like food. You dont hide behind genetics like the LG says. I agree food can be addicting.It releases  dopamine or  serotonin like drugs,sex, and gambling release. I love food, but you cant get out  of control.You mentioned surgery. That is the biggest mistake you can make. You will lose weight so fast that your excess skin will hang from all parts of your body.I have seen pictures of people that have skin from their chest going all the way to their knees. You will actually look worse.  Go look at pictures of people that have had that surgery. You have to lose the weight slowly or it will not work. Do you want to have plastic surgery and cut all the excess skin away. Then you will have scars all over your body. You better do some more research before you get that brutal surgery.remember one thing, even if you have the surgery, you have to change your eating habits, or you will be right back where you started.

-- Modified on 4/17/2009 10:03:43 PM

yet another diatribe against overweight people. This is not about your difficulty in fending off the attentions of an overweight female co-worker - it's about your frustration and your polarization of "me" and "them."

I suggest you take your gross generalizations elsewhere,
The Love Goddess (5'8 and 117 lbs.)

Ok...The general rant is valid,
just the execution that leaves something to be desired.

Stopped after, "so I don't hurt her feelings."
and it would have been cool.

Devils Advocate..I'm sorry but some white knightish responses have come up.

Obesity IS treated as AIDs level in the USA, blaming  McDonalds like it puts a gun to people's head.
Very few people have a genuine genetic reason
for obesity, it is due to their own personal life choices.
They want to tax soft drinks & fast food because nobody can take any personal responsibility in this bleeding heart PC world.
An obese person will slow up my family getting off a burning transportation device, they do take more space/fuel on planes, and raise health insurance cost, just like smokers. If it is genetic, then yea it sucks, but you can't whip out a doctors note in an emergency. Life's not fair. Everyone's discrimated over something.

Yet it seems its perfectly OK to say a skinny person has an Eating Disorder, or tell them to EAT SOMETHING because they don't fit your standards.
But would you tell the lady next to you she "Really doesnt need that side of fries from the size of her butt" ?
Exactly. All inappropriate.

She's probably very confident at her weight, and some technically "overweight" people are healthier inside than average weight people.
(Thin can hide secret fat between organs instead of more visible places).
Maybe she does work out, maybe she doesn't...It's her choice.
Please don't advise her what to do to her body, that's really rude.

Don't date someone you aren't attracted to because of pressure & guilt, that's BS.

.... yet you seem to focus on whether you are sexually attracted to the lady in question.

Over the years some of my best friends and best dates have been with women I wasn't sexually attracted to - whether overweight or for other reasons. But we had great times together - theater, restaurants, sight seeing and providing each other support through tough times.

Maybe it times to let the big head do some of the thinking.

MH50

I'll post a pic of myself so you can see my body type.. (over 200 lbs)...  : )

Brazil, I actually understand the frustration in your post.  I have a feeling that you aren't really that angry or judgemental toward all of obese America.  It sounds to me like you are overwhelmed by this one girl who keeps hounding you.  
It sounds like she is constantly putting you in an awkward and uncomfortable position.  It sounds to me like the two of you (even though she is fat) could get along quite famously as pals if she wasn't so aggresive in her pursuit of you.
I used to be very self conscience about being overweight before I started providing and found a wealth of men who found me extremely attractive.  I used to hide behind a false bravado and pretend that I wasn't actually very shy and afraid of being rejected.  So I was loud, aggresive, I was the pursuant in any "relationship" I had, and never was able to step back and let true attraction develop between me and another person.

I believe what makes you so uncomfortable is not her body size, but her complete insecurity and lack of self esteem.  I believe that her constant need for your attention is weighing you down to the point that you just don't know what to do.  Your only recourse against her attack is to lash out against her qualities that, in your eyes, are flaws.

Honestly, I'm sorry that we chubby girls are like this.  We don't realize that this behaviour actually works against us.  Do you have any insecurities?  Is there anything that you feel you are lacking in?  
I wonder if you could draw upon that feeling when you confront her, try to understand that she is pursuing you out of fear and nervousness.  That if she were in a healthy place emotionally, physically, and spiritually, she probably wouldn't be attracted to you at all.  

If I were her, I would definitely appreciate a man that I was doing that to, to sit down with me privately and tell me that I was ruining what friendship we might have had.  Just tell her, privately, that you really aren't attracted to women who are so aggresive, women who can't wait for the right man to come along, women who make a public display of attraction to you and aren't secure enough to let the man do the chasing.  Tell her that she is making you feel uncomfortable and that if she doesn't back off then she will lose you even as a joking around type pal.  Tell her that subtlety really does go a long way toward attracting a male.  

Anyway, I don't if anything got cleared up but I do agree with you on one point... Yes! Beyonce is very HOT!!  

Putting aside everything else for the moment: If Brazil or any other man on this board thinks you are not hot then I feel sorry for them, and wish them good luck with their size twos, with nothing to hold onto.

why u gotta go spewin so much hate ... if ure not attracted to her, your not.  and dont feel sorry for me and i dont have a problem...  what i got is one big round badonkadonk that turns the boys heads ... so since u are soooooooo physically attractive ... exactly when did the last person leave u 5 franklins on the bedside table for the pleasuree of your company?

he had to know he was when he posted it.  such a small minded person ... cant be a very functional happy person can he ...

I have to admit,  my post did come across a little angry after reading it again. I think the gay remark is what set me off a little bit. When we hit on girls, and they turn us down, which girls do everyday to men, we just take it and move on, but if a girl hits on you, and you dont show interest in her, they have to protect themselves and say there is something wrong with the guy. he must be gay or he is this or that.for some reason women can not handle rejection. btw, i never said i was all that or anything. you guys love to put words in my mouth.

This girl does have guys that hit on her. She does have a very large chest that she likes to flaunt and there are guys that are into that.Black guys love her. She cant go one night w/o getting hit on by a black dude, but she isnt into black men. her preference is white men, which is fine with me. The bottom line is, everyone has something that they find attractive.you shouldnt be called names when they are guided by that. no matter if its race, body type,status, wealth, power, height...  hell, when they poll women on if they are attracted to short men, most of them say no. women love tall men. Women love tall men so much, that natural selection has caused the average height of men to go from about 5'5 back in the day to 5'10 today.Do we call women racist for liking what they like. what people are attracted to is hard wired in their brain. you cant change it.

Just tell her, privately, that you really aren't attracted to women who are so aggresive, women who can't wait for the right man to come along, women who make a public display of attraction to you and aren't secure enough to let the man do the chasing.----------------

ever since I was a kid, I have had obese redneck men make lewd comments about me being an asian girl or being a china doll. I have been assaulted by 2 obese men and chased by many.  I try to tell the men I am not interested in them and I even try to talk to them about my childhood but it makes them chase me more as if they could be my hero....now I realize I need to tell them that I like doing the chasing or hate public displays of affection....