I need expert advice on how to reduce PPM. Story is as follows: had a M&G with a 28 year old a year ago. We got along well at dinner but never managed to go any further because she obviously pursued an upgrade and I wasn't going to get into a bidding war.
Now a year later and several one-and-done false starts with others from SA, I reached out to her and she responded enthusiastically. We went out for dinner twice negotiating a long term SR. She reluctantly agreed to 1500/mo which is above my usual 1200. More negotiations as to when and how it would be split during the month. We finally go BCD and she performs ok (not great, but not bad) and I part with 400 having after we finally agreed that PPM as the best solution.
I decided she's not worth more than 300 but she considers herself a 500. Should I just blow her off and keep looking or try to lowball her with 200 and then concede 300? On the plus side I already know her well and vice-versa and I don't have to go through a painful "discovery" phase.
There is a lesson that can be learned from the man where it comes to negotiations. You have to be willing to walk away from a bad deal. I can't think of anywhere that this axiom holds true more than the sugar world. It's part of the reason I never pay for a M&G or otherwise let a POT SB think that she is the one leading our little. You have to be willing to tell her that if she isn't happy with your offer, you are willing to go find someone who will be and that she of course is free to go find another guy,
Personally I don't consider the "discovery phase" painful and hopefully you have not alluded to her that is how you feel about the seeking out new SB's or it will give her even more leverage over you. Unfortunately the effort required to turn a ship around a full 180 degrees after it's already set sail in the wrong direction is usually more effort than simply starting again with a new ship/ SB. Here is my only hope for you to turn this particular ship around, aside from simply say "$300, take it or leave it" which is something I have done on a few occasions with a higher degree of success than you might imagine, but as any salesman will tell you, when you do what is known as "takeaway" you have to sincerely be willing to walk away from the negotiating table/bed if you don't get the answer you are hoping for. That said, you "might" try guaranteeing her that you will give her the $1,500 she seeks, but in return you expect to see her five times a month, and that you will give her $300 each time you see her "until" you get comfortable enough with how the arrangement is working to shift it to giving her the money in advance each month. If she agrees make sure you NEVER get comfortable enough to change things. lol
People tend to treat you the way you train them to treat you, once you start showing an SB that you need the relationship more than she does, that is the end of you having any control of the situation. Back to the "discovery phase" keep in mind that she likely feels the same way, most SB's would rather have someone they feel comfortable with and who they feel they can count on for a reliable revenue stream, the exception to this are the pros or the semi pros who are always looking for new SD's, kind of like the way some of us are always looking for new additions to our "rotations" which keeps us for getting too hung up on any one SB.
-- Modified on 10/2/2018 4:34:28 PM
It seems to me if you fixate on a particular girl, you might as well go back to dating in the civie world because it will eventually turn into exactly the same kind of relationship. I am not arguing against civie dating, but merely saying you are going to end up civie dating (and outlaying a lot of cash in the process) if you make such long term arrangements.
I know the only reason these girls are seeing me is because I bring cash. Developing a fixation on them will almost surely be unrequited. And as familiarity grows they will become more and more difficult because they really are just in it for the cash and out of psychological laziness they will put less and less effort into it.
By the way, I have never detected a correlation between price and performance. And only a slight correlation between looks and price (because so many average looking girls charge high rates.)
but it has been an inverse correlation. I have found the higher the "ask" usually the worse the performance, and the more "hookerish" the experience. Not that I don't like hookers, I LOVE hookers, but when seeing an SB I like the more natural, less transactional experience I get with SB's that you don't usually get with hookers. The more money an SB gets, it seems like the more transactional the BCD activities feel to me.
I do completely agree about the psychological laziness that occurs when you start getting to familiar with an SB who knows you are into her, but who has ZERO reciprocal feelings towards you. They will invariably start asking for more and more while delivering less and less.
As for the correlation between looks and price, I have only noticed this at the very top end of the market with women who not only are "model quality" girls, but who know it as well. Truthfully, I would rather spend the same money on hookers, because some of these so called "top tier" SB's will actually dent your wallet a lot more than will a hooker. I would rather give a hooker a thousand bucks and be done with it unless and until I decide to see her again than have an SB with GPS hitting me up for the same amount every few days whether I see her or not.
Thanks to all for the helpful comments as usual. Yes, I did commit the error of lamenting to her about the discovery phase, as did she by the way, which is why we decided to try again.
I think the takeaway works in business as both sides usually want to get to a deal. But I found in the SB world it causes offense and since they're emotional basket-cases anyway, it's a sure way to lose.
I particularly agree with Gaga's assertion of inverse correlation between ask and performance.
By pure luck the situation resolved itself when a quasi-unicorn fell into my lap out of nowhere. This allowed me to ignore the SB I was talking about and allow her to ripen on the vine until I decide whether to re-initiate contact again - at a better ppm.
The quasi-unicorn situation is so unique that I'm still slapping myself the morning after, trying to wake up !! If it is real I'll post about her in a week or so because I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop!
and I think that old saw is quite valid in this instance. Right now you are happy with your unicorn and really don't care about the old SB, allowing her to "ripen on the vine" as you so aptly put it is EXACTLY what you needed to do and your new unicorn made it easy for you to do so.
At this point whoever reaches out to the other and tries to renew the "negotiation" is going to be the one who most wants this arrangement to happen, and that person is going to have to be the one to make the concessions. You have to be willing to walk away from the deal, and having alternatives makes that easy to do. Women are used to leading men around by the dick, just the hint of pussy will make the average guy jump through endless hoops, but we aren't "average" if anyone knows how much pussy is actually out there to be had, it's a TER member.
BTW if you do decide to be the one to reestablish contact with her, which I strongly advice you NOT do, make sure you have some kind of segue or excuse to be reaching out to her other than wanting to see/fuck her. Or if it was your turn to return a message you could always wait a week or two and then apologize for "getting busy" and/or maybe suggest to her that you simply forget having an "arrangement" and that maybe the two of you could "just be friends" with no money of course. and then let HER be the one to restart the negotiations by forcing her to be the one to say that SHE want's things back the way they were.
In the meantime congrats on finding someone you really like and that apparently rocks your world.
Just to reinforce GaGa's comment... there are a few guiding principles that every SD should use at all times. These will help you in every phase of sugaring from initial M&G to negotiating, to scheduling 1st BCD and follow up BCD's to any attempt to renegotiate to ending an arrangement.
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1. You are always busy! You are successful, focused and make a shit ton of money and that doesn't happen to losers who are waiting around to please any pussy close enough to smell (there's another story here about smelly pussies... But I digress 
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- Dont always immediately reply to messages - Daddy is in a meeting, working a deal or a project, hanging with his boys, or whatever. The point is you have priorities and she is NOT even near the top of your priority list.
- Similarly, you are not available to meet on demand (i.e.: Pay her cash asap) just because she has a financial crisis. She can't just call you at 3 am for an Uber ride home or to pick her up because she went out with the girls (yeah, right!) and got stuck downtown when her 'ho' friend hooked up. Caveat: subject to your libido, of course.
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2. You are a money manager par excellence! That means you have a budget, you know your budget and you manage your budget. She does NOT get to see your budget! That is top secret intel. So she cannot challenge you when you claim budget needs for not spending on her beyond negotiated amounts. I remember once when a (now former) SB was crying in my car outside her apartment that she just wasn't making enough cash and couldn't pay for groceries. We were already on a monthly allowance and she was hoping/hinting for an extra gift - even though I had created a budget based on her total income that, if followed, would cover her basic expenses. She made an interesting comment: "You've been so helpful to me, but I still struggle every month - my paycheck just isn't enough - and I don't even know how much your pay check is from your job! Obviously, this was a not-so-thinly veiled attempt to find out how much money I make. This told me three things:
A. Her tears were calculated to manipulate me (Don't actually blame her, just noted it for reference).
B. She had been trying to reverse engineer my net pay (or FCF for you accountants out there) based on her allowance, my supplemental spending on her (she always made a subtle point of looking at restaurant checks), and by guessing my recurring expenses like rent, power, etc.
C. I had done an excellent job of NOT letting her know the info sought in B.
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3. As far as she knows, you only have one SB "right now". This is important for several reasons:
A. She needs to believe you are spending all of your sugar budget on her and her only.
B. She's not sharing you with a ho, but
C. Since you have had multiple arrangements in the past, you are quite capable of replacing her - usually within 24 hours.
I'm not advocating lying, although that's not a moral issue, it's tactical. Lying requires a lot of energy over time. You have to remember the lie, you have to explain or hide inconsistencies between real life and your lie. SB's may have issues with money, time, focus and goals, but they all damn well have AMAZING memories for shit you tell them and the shit they find out about you. Instead of lying, I suggest careful statements that emphasize your desired point of view. "You are my only Baby now" can be true if you manage your time perspective of the word "now" to say, the current 4 hour period. "I don't want to manage arrangements with multiple women at one time. I only want to focus on one special person." Very true - none of us wants to "manage" multiple arrangements. But we do. All the time. We choose to do it, but we don't "want" to do it.
Note: This may be controversial as there are some of you who let your SB's know you have multiple partners (one possible method to get a three-way!). But do so with some thought on how this will impact your SB's point of view about how she fits into your budget - err… I mean life.
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Use these as guiding principles as you interact with SB's. Remember that we call ourselves Daddy for a reason. We are the parent here. Sometimes Daddy rewards, sometimes Daddy has to teach and set boundaries, sometimes Daddy has to punish.
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Life is good.
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The Cat
So here is the update on the quasi-unicorn. I'd been chatting with her on and off on SA until she told me she had found someone. A week or so ago she pops up on my search again so I re-engage. She tells me the guy ghosted her (she's brand new on SA). We quickly move to text and she gets dirty and tells me she's wet and horny. Unable to meet immediately we decide on the following evening. I didn't expect her to show but she texts me from the bar we agreed to near my place "I'm here" !
I go there and see she's cute. I ask if she wants another drink when I order mine she says no, let's go somewhere else. The inevitable answer to that is "ok, my place then". She fucks my brains out and we get to know each other and I drive her home. Not a word about allowance. She's 25, educated, works a decent job and goes to school. She just dumped her boyfriend she was supporting and wants to be treated like a woman! Well that's ME! Haha.
A few days later, again she comes over, gets in my (big) bathtub and asks me to join her. After a delightful evening of sex I ask her point blank what she wants out of this and she says I don't know yet. The standard "I am not a prostitute but I want to be spoiled and a connection". So I plan to take her out to an expensive dinner a few days later. In the interim, while texting, I detect she isn't excited about the expensive dinner so I ask if she wants to go shopping instead? (She has a huge wishlist on SA). Not really. Now I'm getting a little annoyed so I suggest that I give her in cash the amount I was planning to spend on the expensive dinner. She readily agrees (They're all the same no what what they tell you!)
The night in question she texts saying Aunt Flo just visited and she has a headache. I smell a rat and call her bullshit. She apologizes and agrees to come over to show she isn't with anyone else but is not in the mood for "play" and I agree. Meanwhile because of some developments in my own life I have to go back to Tokyo next week for a month. (fyi sugar play both here in the US and there). When I tell her that she appears relieved - confirming the rat I smelled earlier! So we have dinner and open up. I tell her I have an SB in Tokyo but not sure if she's still on board. She tells me she met another guy she likes on SA and for the moment intends to keep us both. Body language tells me that's not true and she's already picked the other guy. I drive her home and we part vowing to "stay in touch". I'm crossing her off the list for the moment but who knows what can happen in a month? I fully agree with xray84 about never ever losing my cool and being a gentleman at all times!
Now re; Tokyo: SB1 messaging me that she's looking forward to seeing me again - but her messaging had cooled off considerably in the past month, so I don't know...
SB2: I messaged her if she wants to pick up where we left off last August...no reply.
POT3 is already negotiating an allowance amount and I haven't even seen good pictures yet and haven't met her. It might be a lonely stay eating ramen alone!
That's not really a bad thing. It just means you can keep her as possible back up when one of your A-List SB's flakes. You already know the sex is good and the expected allowance. And you know the allowance does not require additional incidental costs like dinner an shopping.
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She's a back up HIAQI (Hit It And Quit It) SB. Go live the dream, Friend.
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Life Is Good.
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The Cat 
