.. between a hobbyist and an escort!  

I made this statement in one of my responses to a post on the San Diego Discussion Board:
 http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=38470&boardID=7&page=1

As I stated in that post, I believe that hobbyists often perceive a session with an escort to be a much needed escape… a fantasy!  I think it's an unrealistic situation, and bears little resemblance to what goes on in the real world between men and women, and both parties should consider being particularly careful about taking any feelings that might develop during these sessions too seriously.

I would love to hear how the many great escorts and wonderful gentlemen in the TER community feel about what I have stated above. The escort whose post I responded to originally appears to have taken serious offense to my difference of opinion and has accused me of taking and relating only to one hour quickies! I have no idea whether my opinion about this issue is the majority opinion.  As always, each opinion expressed is valuable to me, valuable enough to warrant my careful consideration, and I keep a very open mind about changing my opinion entirely!

kisses
Suzanne


-- Modified on 3/12/2006 6:07:26 PM

having read the thread, you sounded reasonable and the poster sounded offmark.  I agree with you, be careful with the emotional involvement based on a situation which is so unreal to start with.

-- Modified on 3/12/2006 6:20:56 PM

-- Modified on 3/12/2006 6:21:29 PM

threw me out of the house... lol!!  seriously,

I have fallen for one escort heavily.  I really was mentally building a fantasy world around her living with me and so on...  Then I scheduled another session with her... the talk was fantastic, foreplay incredible, and the act itself seemed to go on forever... at the end - as we wound down - she had the glassy eyed look of a doe - in short, she enjoyed....   but as I was getting ready to go - and we were small talkin' she made a comment that was not out of the ordinary - it was simple - but the klaxton went off in my head...  and the message was clear - "this is an actress (and quite a good one too) and she is giving an award winning goodbye speech... enjoy, but do not believe..."

So, while I have become friends with providers, I always check my emotions, as they are fragile... and somewhat sensitive to the "touch"

I can't imagine what providers must feel when they get a decent guy come through the door... who does not treat them as furniture.  Both provider and hobbiest have to be realistic... oh, and your comment wrt the persona, my ATF once laughed and said - "hang with me for 24 and you too will head for the hills... as I have lots of issues...."  lol...  she is a sweetie, but I know that she is also very honest... not that I don't have issues of my own... So my dear Suzanne, I would offer that even on civie dates, it is easy to act nice for 4-5 hours, it is hard to make a 10-year marriage work... and mine did not...  I can relate to that which you post - but still find it funny lol... thanks for the unique perspective.

On intimate encounters involving all five senses and two (or more) real people, I don't know how anyone could say it isn't "real," or part of the "real world."  Yes, it's based on an exchange of money (resources).  I believe sex for resources is a normal, real situation.  Now, it may include role playing, which is acting out a fantasy.  

However, I think by "unrealistic" you are actually referring to the fact that the encounter is fleeting, there is no commitment to any kind of bond, and no indication of one after a session.  It's still as real as snow, then, which is quite real and has exactly those qualities in my part of the country.  

Far more direct to the argument: extreme polygamy on any basis is not an indication that bonds aren't being formed and that emotions aren't being triggered.  The bonds may be oblique, and the emotions evoked may be unpredictable and unusual, but they are there nonetheless.  

There is also fewer ways to express them given the boundaries of this hobby.  Even so, I would say that I feel something of a bond with every woman I've seen.  I read their blogs and their writings, some I will correspond with.  I'm friends with them.  I cheer their triumphs, I'm saddened by their setbacks, and if anything terrible happens to any of them, I will be worried.  If any of them die, I will be crushed.      

According to E.O. Wilson in his book "On Human Nature" human beings generally use sex to create bonds, and that is a different behavior than any other animal.  No other species are connoisseurs of sex the way humankind is, nor do any others use it this way.  

So, bonds will form.  If a tryster were just an entertainer, her job would be very easy.  

I've had much the same experiense as Zinaval. Many sessions are quite real in intensity, in discovery of self and of other (the uniqueness of different and wonderful women), and in persistence in my memory (as high points of human interaction and adventure). These memories can be great and may last perhaps a lifetime. I certainly am touched by the intimacy with another soul.

I agree with Suzanne that it would be unrealistic to interpret the sessions as implying any commitment. They are not part of the real world of contracts and responsibilities. They are not long lasting. But neither is the music of a songbird which I pause to hear, or the beauty of a sunset which is so fleeting, or the poems of Emily Dickinson - god knows she has no love for me, yet I am touched deeply by her words.

A session is not so much an escape as a revelation of the power and magic of the woman.


THE SOUL selects her own society,
Then shuts the door;
On her divine majority
Obtrude no more.
 
Unmoved, she notes the chariot’s pausing        
At her low gate;
Unmoved, an emperor is kneeling
Upon her mat.
 
I’ve known her from an ample nation
Choose one;
Then close the valves of her attention
Like stone.

- Emily Dickinson

"Why are women so easily offended?"   Far too often it seems to me they look for ways that a person could be insulting them, instead of just talking to them.

Having read all the posts, I just don't see why anybody took offense.  Both ladies have valid points and questions, and it looks to me as if women have no better idea than men about what it takes to get along with a woman...

representative of the real world, which I think it should be clear was Suz' point.

IOW, a relationship is built on what you have.  It could conceivably be years of dates @ $800/pop.   But if you want to find out what a person is made of on the fast track, do as the lady suggested, and try a week of backpacking, or ask them to change your kids' diapers...

You see all these great sites and restaurants and
pack them all into a very limited time so it's
really fun.

But you really don't see how it is to live in
that place on a day to day basis.

I agree with you on both points.  If you want to see if a friendship with a tryster is relationship material, Suzanne is right.

On your first point, I will add that the real world is full of things unrepresentative of it.  

Moreover, I do wonder sometimes if this isn't more representative than even people in the hobby admit.  I mean, there are over 60 thousand providers with reviews on this board.  I'm thinking that's probably about 15-20 percent of those in the business.

Because that's a pretty large % of the US population.  

And considering that reviews here don't deal with anybody that doesn't have a website, 60K women servicing the hobby is a damn lot of people...

I noticed this a while back an mentioned it but if you are using Microsoft Ineternet Explorer and hover over a poviders name in the reviews it will tell you her "id number".  It will show up in the lower left hand corner of your screen with "aspid="xxxx".  

For example, I clicked over the name of a provider named "Creame" that was reviewed today, 3/12/06, and her ID is 73438.  She is the 73438th provider ID to be reviewed on this site.  That doesn't mean that there are a few providers that have multiple ID's but most of them get consolidated at some point (they probably chew up an "aspID" anyway).  

However, most girls just have one ID during their provider lifespan.  I think the person saying that there were 60 Thousand reviewed providers was trying to say that most of the ladies from provider "1" are gone by now.

By the way, you can also do this for board ID's but these are over 1 million and counting.  

-- Modified on 3/12/2006 9:05:25 PM

I did get one number wrong.  The individual reviewer names are well over 2 million now.

QUOTE (From Staff):
"9. Roughly how many providers have been reviewed on TER?

A little over 70,000 providers are reviewed on TER in over 450,000 reviews.  (WOW!)"

I'm not saying that a hobbyist and a provider cannot have a relationship at some point in time. However, odds are things would change. Think about it: We provide a service and a fantasy. Could we always behave like a courtesan: pleasant, giving, unassuming?  Possibly, but I doubt it.

Reality is "reality" would hit us in the face. Some of us would be frazzled by work at the end of the day and be tired, some of us would have to haul children around (back and forth to soccer practice, etc.), and at any give moment friends or family could consume our time. Would it be like it was when we were providers?  I seriously doubt it.

Hugs,
ciara

-- Modified on 3/13/2006 8:31:46 AM

Both you and Zinaval(I hope I spelled it right) reflect my opinion on these experiences.  I'm a surface realist, with a strong romantic side hiding within me.  After a while, I can sense when there's more than just business being transacted.  I don't expect a loving relationship, just a nice friendship. What's wrong with that?  You can't have too many friends.

which seems reasonable, that's closing in on 1% of the US population...just on TER, which I suspect is a fairly narrow market sector.   I mean, think of all the Jimmy Swaggarts who are never gonna post here.

Freaking amazing.

but hey - that is how I met the "hot mommies"!  :->  Seriously, ever look at the divorce rate - I would challange that this hobby is more real in a lot of ways than real life.  Historically in the days of "arranged marriages" extramarrital affiars were somewhat more common - keeping the pressure lid on or at least regulated.  But our society has changed- polygamy is legal - you just have to have your wives one at a time... and there is the financial factor - you have to be able to afford them -

What I like about this hobby is that UNLESS you are seeking a serious -"lets form a family" relationship, it is more in tune with reality... that most would like to admit...  Again, while I think that this hobby makes forming a relationship bond difficult, so does civie life...   I mean Hollyweird does not help....  we are told that we cannot age as we grow old, we must have a trophy wife - and oh, by the way, if you brush your teeth with this toothpaste, Jenna Jamison will be your gal!  I mean - get real... I can't even spell her name correctly... lol!!!  

I look back on my childhood - and realize that it was truly blessed - biggest problem was who to play with today.  My kids seem to be ok, but with a 50% divorce rate?  they took a hit.  With organized sports and favoritism and the drive to win - they took a hit.  with insane school systems with multiple layers of admin... they took a hit...  Kids going bananas in even the "best of schools"  my kids took a hit...

Dealing with all of this is taxing on the soul, let alone a relationship.  So Do I enjoy being with a provider - yes - and it is not just the sex - it is about my fantasy wrt what one aspect of a male - female consumated relationship could be like...  it is also about mutual pleasure - which is why some providers really turn me off, they seem to not be having a good time (or maybe it is me and my greeness!).  Do I enjoy flirting with providers Wink wink.... you bet.   but reality is about who does the wash, laundry and whose turn it is to pick up what's her name from cheerleading practice...

I have been doing some serious reading about the exotic dance business - and one of the papers reported that a very small portion of the dancers actually "took control" of the job and claimed it as theirs.  I have met a couple like that - I think that a similar analogy can be made in this business - if the woman claims the biz and makes it her own, she will enjoy - because it is about fantasy....  when all realize that, the fun is good.  Remember Fantasy Island - ??  sometimes more than one fantasy was fulfilled by a single situation... escorting can be like that.... but what do I know.  I don't have to entertain the 250 lb, 5'6" guy who smells like garlicky bad fish, and festering sores all over his body -- and his insistance that I perform acts that I don't enjoy - !!  but if the guy is a gentleman - clean and neat - with more than a neuron firing.... then the session can be good fun....

You want reality?  Get a TV show.

This goes with my previous post about the power of the providers as a group.  Lesser numbers support other successful causes.  Me? I think that this hobby will eventually move to the mainstream... maybe not in our lifetimes... (I'm an old dude), but perhaps in 30-40 years... As I have posted manytimes before... more people are in this now, and more quality providers are participating now, I think due to changes in technology.  and an awareness of the legal system....  Providers that I meet are either studying for an advanced degree - or already have one....  they also have lives outside the hobby.... and seek their own enjoyment...  not bad.  Do I believe these numbers - hey, its possible.... and if you go on Eros - you start to get a real feel - for where they are...  but I also get the feeling that TER covers ONLY the upper end....

of what a highly sexed no strings attached relationship would be like.  I believe that most men and a lot more women than I originally thought, really love sex and would like much more of it and more variety.  "Polite society", or what passes for it these days, and fear keep them from really experiencing their fantasies.  Those of us lucky enough to say fuck it and go for the gusto, can escape the boring reality that is most people's existence.  Just my two cents worth.

..."I think bald is sexy" I remember that the whole thing is not a real-world experience.

Don't worry. It's probaby just a phase.

and that's what my post was referencing. When you get involved in a relationship with a provider then it would become the real life, so many relationships might not last based upon that realization.

Hugs,
Ciara

...I replied to Misty Bay's post (above).

And we won our second playoff game... which cuts into my hobbying time as we have to now go to yet another game !!! lol!  It is great fun.... Our team should not be winning, but they are... as we keep loosing girls!  When we are told to play the "B" team we just look around and say "who!?"  Last night's score 10 to 5!  to team!!!

Again,I hate to go there BUT, civie dating is kinda like hobbying in a lot of ways...  first the dates are usually for some defined period of time - 2-6 hours... if overnight - then about 12-14 hours.... and in the case of civie dating BOTH know to be on good behavior...  it is very easy to be on good behavior for those periods of time.... but over time, both parties often let their guards down....  "Gee, I never knew that her friends were sooooooo annoying....!"  "Gosh, he ALWAYS leaves the toilet seat up!"  and so on....  Before I married, even before a woman would move in with me, I would suggest that we take a vacation together....  24/7 and you find out "stuff"  that may make the thought of living with someone problematic...  

Once, I had just bought a place, and was moving in, the gal I was dating at the time, came over to help me move in.... and brought her clothes without even asking!!!!  Instant rejection!  I was so floored that I could not even speak....  

Civie relations and provider relations!  believe it or not - they are amazingly parallel...  So, I agree - the fantasy (or the nice act) is actually calculated to be attractive - and there is NOTHING wrong with that.... but the difference with a provider is that the hobbiest knows that it is a calculated act... (some better than others) and that there are lines....  with Civies - where the line is, is much harder to recognize (or even realize) where the line between the "act" and reality....  as I say, want reality - "get a TV show"!

I would have to agree with you for the most part, Suzanne.  All that you posted was very well said and thought out.  

Hobbyist and Providers meet basically for one thing only.  I do a lot of dinner dates and overnights, many times with repeat clients, and while we spend more time together than the one or two hour dates, it is still a fantasy world even though I view many of them as friends.

My total concentration is on my date at all times.  For the time we have alloted to spend together they are my world.  I don't allow the "real world" with it's problems or concerns to enter into our time together because he is paying for my total attention.

These clients see me looking my best.  If they come to my incall I am dressed in sexy lingerie.  If I do an outcall or dinner date I am dressed to the ninth.  They don't see me when I am in my sweats or when I'm sick.  They don't see me when I'm down or blue.  That is what real life is.  People deal with all kinds of personal issues, sometimes joy sometimes not.

The only way to know if what a provider and hobbyist feel for one another is valid is to spend "real" time together.  As you said, go camping, take a vacation together, etc.  When you are not with anyone save for a day or two, hour or two, here and there, you cannot build a relationship beyond friendship.

I made the mistake of breaking the prime directive and saw someone I met in this hobby for about a year.  It just doesn't work most of the time.  I'm not saying it can't work, but it's unlikely and when you allow it to happen hearts get broken.  

While I thouroughly enjoy many of the clients I see, they pay me to leave and that's the way I like it.  - Lia


-- Modified on 3/14/2006 4:08:44 PM

that you tend not to get in "dating" providers... and I do not miss it.

My 'unique perspective' isn't so unique after all based on the number of respondents who agree with me, is it now?    Besides meaning one of a kind, what else does unique mean to you? Does it mean weird, unusual, off center, wacko, or something of that nature, because if that's what you're saying, always remember I DON'T TAKE PRISIONERS (I don't want to have to feed them!) Cum on now, don't be a scaredy-cat, you know you can tell sweet little me anything...

And beside that, what's so freaking funny, my post here, the thread on the SD board or what?? Be a dear would you, and let us all know exactly what’s cracking you up, of course only if it's no trouble and you don't mind explaining you're sense of humor. Then the rest can decided if you'resense of humor might be 'unique', and possibly even weird, unusual, off center, wacko, or something of that nature, and maybe we can LOAO too!

Since I have posted comments before that were meant to be fun and just teasing but were taken very seriously, please keep in mind that I am definitely teasing you, that is of course unless you try something like this again!

Wet pussy kisses, BS
Suzanne in San Diego

.. what the heck can you enjoy yourself doing?  What’s the matter with you, are you sure you’re drinking enough at Happy Hour every evening after work?  Should I ask your permission before I decide to take offense again and tear the opposition to shreds?  Nah, I don’t think so, you might tell me not to do it.. how much fun is that!

Why are men so non-confrontational? Why don’t men react to much of anything, especially when it’s cuming from a woman? I just hate it when I can’t manage to piss a guy of badly enough to get him to take offense!  

Wet pussy kisses, just for you MS,
Suzanne in San Diego

PS Please see my response to BS below, especial the last part about fun and teasing!

Would you mind having someone take a pic of the sexy bald thing (the one above your shoulders), so you can post it here and drive all us hotties over the edge with lust??

OOOXXX
S

-- Modified on 3/14/2006 11:46:34 PM

What was crackin me up?  OK - your quote...
"grab the sucker by the b**ls and lead him to the door while yelling in his ear at the top of your lungs, 'get the f**k out if here!'  That will most likely do it! "

Which relates to my comment:
" but reality is about who does the wash, laundry and whose turn it is to pick up what's her name from cheerleading practice..."

so you see - I agree with you...  it is just that when it was time for me to leave the "marital home" I had 24 hours to so do... and my ex - sat on her ass, threatened to call the cops... now before you say, what was your problem - I was coaching my daughter's basketball team - that weekend... taking  my son to a karate tournament... and oh yea... there was also the fact that I was still paying expenses in (now) her house....  so you see, I have actually had my balls grabbed, and been thrown out of my own home...  

Suzanne - guess what - She cheated on me....  and was preggers by the other dude... at the time.... I can now laugh...  so lighten up baby...

oh and by the way... you look hot!! HOT!!!!

They're used to growling and throwing fists (or nukes) and then a couple babes come along and pout or cry (or worse, get some psychrink to tell a court that pissing them off is emotional abuse - yes, judges are emotionally all men, and they do buy this - I see restraining orders like this ALL THE TIME) and they just collapse.  It's the element of surprise.  

No, it's not surprise, it's biochemistry.

You are so on my To-Do list. Pseudo-flattery gets to me every time.

Oh dear, I forgot about the 'grab the sucker...' post!  

I always enjoy reading your posts ... just thought I would rattle your cage a little!  No need to respond and Happy Hobbying!
kisses
Suzanne