I just wanted to say goodbye with many hugs and to wish everyone well. August 1st will mark my last day doing private entertainment sessions following my trip to the east coast.

Sincerely and with much love,

Heather Barron

That's it?  With no explanation?
Don't make us beg.

I wish you the best of luck Heather--it was my pleasure to have met you.

Even if you are retired, please continue to visit with us and share your thoughts and opinions.

pt

Summertime is generally slow as people go on vacation but I would think 1 local here in Las Vegas over the course of a whole year, would book a session. I have never received a single call from someone that lives in Las Vegas since I moved here last year.

After I relocated, I told my regulars in LA that I would still like to come to town/LA to see them. Never heard from them again with 2 exceptions.

I have had one regular client in the last 8 months. He is a sweetheart. And he's gotten all of my energy. Man, I have to use him for every inch of his hot self. If it wasn't for him, I don't know what I would be doing. Climbing the walls....but once a month is not enough, at least not for me. This is a girl who could play 5 times a day!  

I'm planning to fly to Boston to take appointments and then drive to NY and thru DC and onto Atlanta and then to Miami and then fly home. I'm doing it partially for fun, because it's something I've always wanted to do (I miss NY and Beantown and I want to see the beautiful FL oceans again) and to size up the situation. If I can't get a fair share of bookings from Boston to Miami, then well, I'll be sure retirement is in line.

If I could make the bookings in LA, that would be fine but the business is no longer there.

Things changed after I moved and after 9/11. Before that, life for me was a non stop pleasure palace. My lifestyle was almost surreal. I was incredibly spoiled. I had handsome well endowed men dropping by my place all the time to act out their ultimate fantasies. The phone was ringing every single minute of the day. Between 8pm and 12 midnight, the college boys were calling like crazy and I was pleasing them til I was good and done. Between 8am - 11am, the businessmen were sneaking away for nasty play. Now, everyone is an angel and I'm still a bad girl.

What's a bad girl to do when there aren't any bad boys?

HB



HB

sometimes a girl has to do what she has to do so good luck
in your retirement should that be what you end up doing
                                  Trooper

First of all Heather, it is not true that no locals have tried to see you.  I tried.  The problem is that you charge too much for the local market.  

Tourists are willing to pay above market prices when they visit Las Vegas.  They are on vacation, and they don't care what it costs, they are getting laid!!!

If you are looking for the local market, you have to set prices that are more in line for someone who partakes in this sort of thing regularly.  

As an example look at local golf courses.  They charge tourists $100-$150 for a round of golf. However if a local wants to come in and play mid-week, that same round of golf can be had for $40.

Also, you are very condescending to someone that doesn't want to fork over $700 to you.  Remember, if I decide not to see you at that rate, it doesn't mean I don't have the money or that I am a big cheapskate.  It just means that I can get better value for my dollar.

You would be amazed at how many Las Vegas providers will cut a deal for a nice local guy if he's willing to take appts when the town is not full of tourists.  I loved the email I got from a fairly well known provider asking if she could come over last week.  She said that for $300, she would stay til I cried "uncle"!  Now, that's an offer I couldn't refuse!  She delivered, I tipped a bit over her asking price, and she even stayed to have some pizza when we were done.

Heather,

Ya got me why the market is not warming up to you.  I saw your reviews on TER and went through your web site.  You are clearly bright and a tremendous piece of ass.  Are you doing enough marketing?  Cityvibe, Eros?  I just dunno.

-HootOwl

You paid her $300 and she paid for the room? $400 for 1 hour is not above local standard rates. I pay for the room.

-- Modified on 6/9/2002 8:52:15 PM

Who said anything about a room?  She came to my house.

You're right, $400 is fairly standard here in Las Vegas for an hour (although with many providers it's "up to an hour" which translates to about 30 minutes).  My point was that $400 is not a rate that will have the local guys knocking down your door.  If you were interested in the locals market, you were charging too much.  If you were interested in the tourist market, you were right there.

Let me give you another example.  Have you ever been to the Green Valley Ranch? That hotel is a beautiful property, much nicer than many on the Strip.  Still, rooms and restaurants are less expensive than those on the Strip.  Why?  Because they have marketed the property to the people that live and work here in Las Vegas.  You just can't charge as much to someone that is here all the time as you can to someone that is here one week a year and has a vacation budget to blow.

In my opinion, you could have gotten away with charging locals the same price as tourists, but you might have offered to stay an extra 30 minutes or something like that.  Who knows, if the local guy works in the hotel or casino biz, it would be good to have him on your side for referrals.  I know that customers ask me all the time for escort referrals.

Heather, I wish I had the opportunity to meet you.  I like your style and I think you are quite beautiful.  I just didn't feel as though I was a target client for you. I'm a regular guy that likes to play a couple of times a month.  

Good luck in your retirement

i saw heather when she first started and she saw me for 250.00 and was wonderful ...but no way can i will  pay the high price she now chargers i can have a great time with 2 ladies for the same price...now understand heather was GREAT but damn her price got to steep for me....so heather my guess is the reason things have come to a grinding stop is basically you have unfortunatly priced yourself out of the market...

I believe in charging everyone the same price. If you are saying that local providers are charging you less just because you live here than that isn't exactly fair to the tourist who is paying $400 is it? $400 per hour is a fair rate in LA, NY, Boston and most other major cities. I assume that the rate I quote includes me paying for the room, the wine, the snacks and soda. Your girl might have made $300 off your session together. If I took the same appointment, booked a room at a 5 star hotel 400-100=300- wine/soda/snacks.

I guess what it comes down to is that I have moved out of the market you are talking about. That market exists but you have to understand, I'm an old old woman. We old ladies need a nice long "romance" after a nice relaxing dinner and great conversation and dessert back at the room...or 2-3 hours to get to know someone and have a blast. Like you said, you are not going to pay $1100 for 3 hours, lunch and a sensual dip in the pool at a 5 star hotel. That isn't what you are seeking...but for a nice old woman like myself....

That "take off the bra bitch and get into position, I just paid $39.95 for this room" doesn't work for me. I prefer, "Hi, my name is Jim, let's talk, cuddle and get to know each other over a bottle of your finest red wine...

"Hey, bitch, I got a leftover piece of pizza over there 'yer welcome to it..." isn't the wrap. It's usually Rocher, and back rub and then the second coming of Jesus.

Didn't somebody warn me about that the "motorhome park beside Sam's Town" mentality would conflict with my strain of being? I distinctly remember some guy saying something on this board. Maybe it was John...

"I compare human life to a large Mansion of Many Apartment, two of which I can only describe, the doors of the rest being as yet shut upon me--The first we step into we call the infant or thoughtless Chamber, in which we remain as long as we do not think--We remain there a long while, and notwithstanding the doors of the second Chamber remain wide open, showing a bright appearance, we care not to hasten to it; but are at length imperceptibly impelled by the awakening of the thinking principle--within us--we no sooner get into the second Chamber, which I shall call the Chamber of Maiden-Thought, than we become intoxicated with the light and the atmosphere, we see nothing but pleasant wonders, and think of delaying there for ever in delight: However among the effects this breathing is father of that tremendous one of sharpening one's vision into the heart and nature of Man--of convincing ones nerves that the World is full of Misery and Heartbreak, Pain, Sickness and oppression--whereby This Chamber of Maiden Thought becomes gradually darken'd and at the same time on all sides of it many doors are set open--but all dark--all leading to dark passages--We see not the balance of good and evil. We are in a Mist--We(i) are now in that state--We feel the "burden of Mystery," To this point was Wordsworth come, as far as I can conceive when he wrote 'Tintern Abbey' and it seems to me that his Genius is explorative of those dark Passages. Now if we live, and go on thinking we too shall explore them . . . . " (1214-15)
                                                Keats

I'm going back to my dark passageways filled with fictitious 5 star hotels and mirages of strawberries and $100 Victoria's gift certicates.

HB











-- Modified on 6/9/2002 11:04:21 PM

-- Modified on 6/9/2002 11:04:55 PM

Based upon what you have said I think your decision to retire is a good one.  Your situation sounds like a rock musician or professional athlete's career.  For example.  Pat Benatar filled arenas and stadiums with people in every major city during the 1980's to listen to her music.  Currently she plays in Laughlin, Nevada and at the Viejas Indian Casino outside of San Diego.  I am sure that this drop in stature and money is hard to take.  Apparently she still enjoys her music enough to keep performing it.  Other musicians decide to retire after their popularity declines rather than play smaller venues.  Only you know your own heart but based upon what you have said I do not think you would be happy playing smaller venues.  I wish you good luck in whatever you decide to do.

So you are telling me that all of the providers over 30, should retire and hang up their shoes simply because they aren't 22?

Why didn't Ozzy Osbourne retire? He did sort of hybernate for a while but then...ten years later, back he is.

HB

-- Modified on 6/10/2002 12:05:26 AM

-- Modified on 6/10/2002 12:05:57 AM

If youy want to charge NYC, Boston or LA prices, then you have to be in NYC, Boston, or LA.  Las Vegas just really isn't a very rich town.  Mostly plain old middle class folks, a lot of retirees, and a lot of people who make their money working in the casinos and hotels.  Most of them shop at Costco, not Neiman Marcus.  If you want to cater to the local market, you have to price for them.  If you don't want to price for them then you have to live with the fact that most of your appointments will come from tourists, and the tourist market SUCKS right now, everywhere.

If it's any cosolation, you're hardly the first business to open up shop in Las Vegas, expecting a market that is much richer than the city really can deliver.  The strip is a fantasy, the rest of the town pretty conventional, boring and straight-laced.

It seems that you want a type of business that your current environment can't deliver.  If retirement is an option, that may very well be your best bet.

Best of luck to you either way.

MisterG

Some good points. Well, seeing the flood of banners on the other site, you would think that the LV providers do very well. I saw tons of them and said Gee they must be earning like the LA providers and heck the cost of living is half. Who wouldn't want to cut their cost of living in half and keep income the same? Well, try cost of living cut in half and no income. Best have stayed with the high cost of living and the regular steady income but after 9/11 things did slow down.

If you take a look at the Vegas boards, every week, you will see many out of town girls driving or flying in to work for a few days. If the locals, can't get business, then how can the traveling girls get business? It seems these girls drive in without a single guaranteed booking and post "hey I'm in Vegas for a few days"...

Example: Sally Smith of SF posts: I'm coming to LV this weekend. Love to see you. She flies in and stay for 3 days at the Bellagio. So she's paid $300 for flight and $600 for the rooms and then add food etc. And she's "hoping" for a booking. Well, we LIVE here and there aren't any bookings. And Sally Smith isn't charging $200 either. The average weekend warrior chick charges 4 if not 5 bills.

Let's go back in time. To May 2000-December 2000. That was the time when things were truly kicking. Did 9/11 and the sluggish economy really cause people to cut back that much? I'd be interested in hearing from male hobbyists and having them note their city.

HB

No I am not suggesting that every provider retire simply because they are over 30.  In fact a number of top providers are between mid thirties to early forties  (NOSC, Aria, Celeste, etc).  For example:  Who can explain why Pat Benatar was relegated to the minor leagues, while the Rolling Stones, Eagles or Bob Dylan could still play to packed arenas or stadiums if they were to go out on tour.  Obviously they have been in the bright lights for a lot longer than Pat Benatar.  I was not trying to come up with a miraculous solution.  I just agreed that based upon the feelings you expressed in your posts that you should retire.  I wish you good luck in whatever you decide to do.

$250 an hour?
A pal of mine, an international tax lawyer, declines to pay more than his own rate for companionship, and I think he is right. He did pay his dues with eight-plus university years, much more than any provider I know. Most professionals provide help that is considerably more enduring if not life-saving than a few hours of the finest entertainment.
A handful of very fine providers in every major city make the decision to provide well at $250-300 per hour and see only as many gents as they are comfortable with. Do the math. It adds up to a great deal of cash, untaxed, savings of $500,000 in several years. Many providers work long enough to save $1.5 million, without Heather rates, unless they waste it.
In many cities each week there are some major hotties in town for $300 per hour, from 150-200 ladies on many Eros boards.
The competition is fierce, and high rates are both unnecessary for a good lifestyle, and a recipe for long term failure.
A gent can see more fine women than he can handle for $250-300 per hour. That is the true market reality now, especially after 9/11. Instead of retiring, it makes more sense to have an attitude and rate adjustment. Hotel rooms are inexpensive in Vegas, and you pay once for 24 hours, or you rent an extra furnished efficiency apartment and save even more. Docs and lawyers have more considerable overhead and still are at $250.
Heather could do well visiting the East Coast cities with a $300 introductory rate. 5 x $300 = $1500 a day, tax free, gross. Beyond that the market dies. There is too much competition and the higher rate is just not worth it to a guy who uses his upper brain. Sure, to my eyes Heather is charming and beautiful, but so are Catherine and Natalie and Samantha, and Lolita and Alicia, eye candy college students who can do my brains out, drain me twice, go out to dinner for free, and be total fun, all for $250 or less. Vanity is a big barrier, it seems, to many top providers when age catches up, but who really cares?
I remember Sabrina Nicole, a Playboy model, who had a great two years traveling at $500 a pop. Now she does incall at SOBE for $250 and is living well. The competition there and everywhere is fierce. There's your answer. Drop to $300 and start anew. In Vegas see locals for $250 and take your time. Do the math and forget the vanity.  

-- Modified on 6/10/2002 5:44:53 AM

Heather, your original post questioned why you weren't getting the action from local guys that you expected.  A few local guys have answered... your price is too high.  I'm sorry if that isn't the answer you wanted to hear but that is the truth.  If you charged 300, and stayed a little over an hour to make the guy feel that he really got a good value, your phone would be ringing off the hook.  At 400 for an hour (and we're always afraid that it won't be a full hour), we say no thanks and book someone else.  You asked, that's the answer. You can explain, spin, rationalize... but we are telling you how we feel.  Big companies put together focus groups to come up with solutions on ways to better their business. Here, you were able to get the answer in one day with a post on a message board!

Also, I don't think you want to believe it, but some of those 400-500 an hour girls cut some serious deals.  I've had more than a couple tell me that they'd come over for much less, but they asked me not to post anything about it or they'd get heat from their peers.

My posts regarding thanking clients may be partly applicable. Also the posts regarding "My fee is xxx, I don't negotiate because I'm worth it". True worth in the market place is what someone is willing to pay; we are not talking "worth" as a human being, we are talking "business value". You're not the first to move with expectations and then be disappointed. Good luck in whatever you do.

why did you move to las vegas? go back home! how anyone could stand that place beyond one day is beyond me. unless you're a total gambling addict, what is there really to do, culturally? yes, there is an ok university where they are trying to start a decent writer's program. still, the streets are manufactured out of pure consumer ugly. of course locals aren't going to pay you $300 and over. it's not new york or los angeles where you have slewful of lawyers, the entertainment biz, tons of tenured guys in academia with cushy jobs and heads of big manufacturing industry who don't mind spending the big bucks to enjoy some deluxe action. and again, culturally, las vegas leaves a lot to be desired. [yeah boys, bring on the flames!] i don't see several symphony orchestras, world class theatre, foreign films, great art museums all over the place. it's like living in a giant plastic mall. if you needed a change of scenery, why didn't you move to new york? the escort scene survives nicely over there, despite the terrorist attacks. $400 is no problem there either.
and as for making analogies/comparisons to $250/hr lawyers, that's just disingenuous. i'm not going to into a big lecture here, but the health risks, legal risks and the SOCIAL STIGMA of being a prostitute warrants the price. or ask yourself, how much would YOU charge to get f***ked by total strangers every day? and please don't think of it in terms of cute young girls as your clients. think of it in terms of women you might not look at twice, pawing your every orifice. not to say it isn't fun a lot of times, but it's still not always as glamorous as we try and make it out to be. of course we have to respect the lawyer who paid her/his dues in school. and they deserve to charge whatever they want and what the market will bear. obviously the market will bear a lot. we could go into a whole discussion here about athletes. to me, the nba teams consist of a bunch of huge guys chasing a small ball, completely uninteresting. and look at their salaries! what sort of life-saving measures to they engage in?? but the default position is looking at the escort from a point of derision. she's only an escort, politely put, btw, so she should be happy with whatever we decide to pay her. the day that an escort commands the same amount of RESPECT as a lawyer, then we can start making comparisons. for now, let's just say that escorts are needed and yet stigmatized, just like moneylenders, tanners and other pariah-oriented jobs have been in society thruout centuries.

Hello Heather,

There are several interesting points you bring about, as do so many folks who have posted on this thread.

When the economy was in full bloom, hobbyist has some additional discretionary spending income.  So, if a provider stated her fee as being $$$, if the pictures in the ad where great ... an appointment was scheduled on the spot.

This really influenced what provider charged across the US.  A elite provider in NY city charges $$$ -- why can't I?  The fact of the matter is that some provider charge an additional premium because they bring something special to the table.  Either they were Playboy bunnies, or something along those lines.  

Now, don't get me wrong.  All of us are very special in our own way.  But, most hobbyist would be reluctant to part with premium $$$ if they think the provider is plain jane.  Besides, there is plenty of competition out there.

The downward spiral in the economy has hurt the wallets of many enthusiastic hobbyists.  In most case, prices of services have gone done to reflect the current economic situation.  It is apparent that providers have not taken that into consideration.

Personally, I think they need to come to grips with reality. All of us enjoyed the ride when the economy was good.  But, that is not the case today.

I agree with the assessment of the previous post.  I think $ 250 - $ 300 is a fair range.  The emphasis should be on quality and not quantity  -- that fosters loyalty.

A friend of mine who is a professional photographer told me that even Playboy centerfolds don't make that much.  He mentioned that the centerfolds make $ 250,000 - $ 500,000 maximum.  Now, this is for worldwide publication where millions of copies of copies of the magazines are sold.

Have a great trip on the Eastern Seaboard!

- Kama

This is simple. When we read your post about how all the "well endowed" men came over all day and night, when you write about how you are able to go five times or more a day, and its obvious you love doing the nasty, why do you think we quit calling? ZERO times $700 is ZER0!!! 5 times $300 is $1,500. Plus who knows how many O's for you. Move back to LA, build back up a bunch of regulars and quit being bored and whiney! I'll be the first to call if you do that. After a month, if you really hate making 10 grand a week, quit then.

Hi Heather,
I hate to tell you this because i have always wanted to see you.
I was totally interested in you and still interested. But when you raised rates 4 bills it just priced me out of the market. I'm in the los angeles area.. I would be more than willing to see you are your old rates of 200/250.

So you want me to spend $60 on gas roundtrip from Vegas to LA. Book a nice hotel for $150, add my meals, forget the wine and soda and snakcs...were at $250 costs to me. I charge you $250. I made nothing.

-- Modified on 6/10/2002 1:06:21 PM

I think what you are indicating is fair if one works from home or has an incall location so there is no overhead. If you were the girl and you worked out of a hotel for a variety of reasons, how would you handle it? Ask the guy to pay for the room? Then his $300 for 1 hour is up to $450 including the hotel. When you see a girl for $300, she's paying for the room?????

I don't do 5 bookings a day. I do one. I don't work like a robot and I don't disrespect the guy I'm with that way. Sorry, I'm not a no feeling machine. I'm a person and I am not capable of treating people like numbers. Any woman that could see more than 1 or 2 people a day, would eventually be hardened by that usage over a period of time. I have seen the faces of people that do that and you can read it like a book. Preserving one's crispness and fresh outlook is magnified by taking fewer appointments.

HB

-- Modified on 6/10/2002 12:04:22 PM

Heather, We met 2 years ago when your rates were $400 for two hours in LA.  You told me me you were going to "rock my world", but when I came to your place you threw me out thinking I was dressed too well and must have been LE. I guess a 50 year old  CPA needs to dress in jeans and a tee shirt to  get service from you. What a disappointment that was, you were so adorable, but a little too psycho for me.  Left with my $$$$ and called another provider then next day.  She in turn is now my main provider and who I see at least weekly.  I should not call her a provider because I consider her my girl friend. She and I laugh at your rejection of me and her great fortune in meeting me. As to your rate of $400 per hour, I have not and will never pay that rate to any provider. I can well afford it but consider it ridiculous sum and an insult to a guy with numerous degrees that charges his clients  $250 - $300 / hour (which most of my clients also think is ridiculous, but my fee is at least tax deductible).

Heather,
I don't know you but from what I've read so far the one of your main sticking points in your arguement is your expenses. Be reasonable, I know ladies who use their own money to go out on tour....don't get me wrong, they have good tours and bad tours but they still make a nice dollar.  

Your comments seem to suggest that you want every single session to pay for all your expenses...simply put, you try to turn a profit on each session... Nothing wrong with that but you got to give something to get something. You're judging the success of your tour/trip by each individual session instead of the tour as a whole...

Also, it's not necessary to stay in a penthouse every tour, you don't need to drink the most expensive wine...you get my point- quality cannot be measured by price. I understand that is your taste, hey I like that stuff also but compromise is needed if you seek longevity it this biz...Plus, the wine, the snacks, etc. are perks of the session not requirements, so tell me, if I don't want any of your drinks or snacks, do I still get charged for them?... see when I see a lady, I bring all that stuff... also I guarantee that if you book a handful of sessions and the guys have a good time, they'll offer to take you out to eat at their expense- I know because I've done it.

Listen, there's nothing wrong with eating or staying at five-star establishments but when business isn't good, some adjusments have to be made, just as we hobbyists have had to adjust to down times, you have to make adjustments.

When it comes to your local scene, you have to take care of the hometown guys because what happens when times get tough? You'll tour less often and ultimately will rely on the local guys. If you take care of them, then they'll take care of you. Plus what reason do you have for the high rates in your hometown? The only expense I would see is the room, and that's if you choose to meet at a local hotel. Adjust your rates or session length and I will almost guarantee you'll see change.

I don't want to rag on you about the quality of your session because I've never met you (I do get the feeling you're wild and full of energy)...it does sound like you have alot of fun doing this and I sense that deep down inside you don't want to retire so if that's the case, I would suggest just making some minor adjustments... whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best in your future endeavors.
Peace,
D

My limited experience in LV is that most of those rates are HIGHLY negotiable if things are slow.

And these days things are slow.  I haven't been to Vegas for more than a year.  I think there are probably a lot of girls who fly in for a few days and go home very disappointed that things "aren't the way they used to be."

Te economy, plus the retirement of my favorite, has had me cut back to almost nothing.  I'm spending a lot more time at work for less money, and am much more "under the gun."  Sneaking away for a bit of afternoon fun just isn't happenning much these days.

MisterG

Heather,

The suggestions I made had one KEY assumption in mind - NO TRAVEL, or minimum travel.

If you are visiting a different city, I am sure you have scheduled meetings with more than one suitor.  There are certain overhead expenditures that any entreprenuer has to incur.  Generally speaking, overhead expenses should not be dumped onto a client.  That's the cost of doing business.

Cheers,
- KS

Heather should never have started this thread.
First she tells us she likes to do five guys a day. Big deal.
I'm sixty and could easily do five babes a day and feel great about it. For a guy one or two is a good balance.
Our needs are different. The women never pay us anyhow!
Heather's math is worse than George Bush's grammar and syntax put together. LOL.
Heather, you do not rent the room separately for each guy, and the best deal is to have an incall furnished efficiency shared with another girl or two. You know that.
Surely you realize that every guy reading this knows by now that you are being less than honest, and just a spoiled stereotypical BLONDE!
Then she retreats to the one date a day myth, which I would not believe in a gazillion years. How stupid does Heather think we are? Most of us guys are semi-bald, not blonde at all!
Do yourself a favor, Heather, get an education and a real job and do something worthwhile with your life. You've come to the end of the road. It is time to rebuild yourself, to do something you can be proud of, that improves the human race. Since you actually moved to Vegas on purpose, I suspect you may already be a total loss. BIMBW.
Sorry, I'm just being totally honest.
Just like Knockie, I've found several exceptional $200-250 college students twice as gorgeous as Heather, Europeans here as students - French and Czech, busty, grad students, smart, play chess, unspoiled, 3-speed tongues, studying interesting subjects, fun to take to museums & parties, real GFEs, and I help them through college, as do a few other guys no doubt.
When you pay Heather $700, it goes (metaphorically) down a black hole, to shopping, frivolity, nothing that makes a dent because Vegas is too shallow to dent.
Move to Seattle, Heather, study computer science for a few years. Go into the nonprofit world for a charity that does something worthwhile. Do something you can be proud of. Do someting you can tell your child about with a smile.
I suspect that every guy who has read this thread would like to see you have a real life, to do something worthwhile, instead of trying to sell your blonde hair and body for 3X the market value.


-- Modified on 6/10/2002 1:23:01 PM

That's business.

Nobody pays me extra when I fly in from out of town to do a job.  They pay the going rate, and the expenses I incur to get there are generally my problem.  They could always hire somebody else locally, so if I want to compete from far away, it means that sometimes I "swallow" some extra costs and in effect work for less.  I like to think I get it back by living where I want to live.  In many cases I decide it's just not worth it, and don't even go after the job.

Some regular clients will agree to pay me more, or to cover some expenses, because they know the quality of work they'll get, or know my particular skillset fits their needs.  Those are the exceptions though.  I suspect the same is true for you.

And I think that's the reality of it for many of us who work as independents in various fields.  When the economy was good, we all lived very well.  Today the honest truth is that for many of us the business is not as good, and we need to think back to where we were five years ago for a real benchmark as to where we can really expect to be professionally.

MisterG

Well, for once I have to agree with one of the guys out there -- I always seem to back the ladies... I'm a chauvanist who puts women on a pedistal, and I acknowledge it!! -- but Knockie hit it right on the head with Heather.  If you remember Heather, the same thing happened to Knockie that happened to me.  But in my case, I wasn't dressed too nicely -- I was the victim of a motorcycle cop who happened to drive by the location at the same time I did.  Heather thought I was somehow related to the copper... A concept I still don't understand... which made me go to another provider... one who is now my absolute favorite lady in the whole world!

While I would dearly love to be able to actually "meet" with Heather and sample that beautiful strawberry colored hair, I cringe every time I think about how I got bum's rush, just because a uniformed cop happened to be driving down the street (a main drag) as I made the u-turn to her place!!

...and the market is not cooperating.

It happens at times to all of us, in all businesses.  When it does, you have to either move on and do something else, or come to terms with what the market is willing to put up with.  Resting on past glories and talking about the "good old days" gets you nowhere.

Times have changed.  Heather's location has changed.  Maybe Heather has changed a bit herself (I have no idea, never met her).  Expecting that business won't change is unrealistic.

MisterG

Wow, I always enjoy the discussions here. I try to be an objective reader. But I think Heather should just stop posting  messages on this topic. It is obvious whatever any guy says, she can twist it around. She doesn't seem to want to accept reality. And the more she speaks, the less attractive she sounds. That is unfortunate.
I am like many other guys out there, I have never seen any providers above $$$. Many I have seen have gone over $$$ now, but most are willing to see me at the old rate. In fact, most providers I have seen want me to become regulars and don't mind either discounts or extras to keep me. I NEVER even ask for it. That's good business. After all, I am fairly young, don't mind spending money, can strike up good conversations, and I make them feel like they are not just doing a job.
Anyways, just my 2 cents worth

I do greatly appreciate the appointments that I have received. They have helped me to support my children. I don't drive a BMW. I don't take vacations. I actually use my library card rather than buy books. I don't own a single designer dress. All of the clothes I own with the exception of lingerie and a few gifts are second hand. And yes, I do my own nails. When I gent comes to see me and pays $700 for a 2 hour appointment, I see it as 2 weeks of food for my 4 kids and my parents. I support my parents, their medical bills and the medical bills for my son and dad who are both diabetics. There are a lot of women supporting children on their own with no help from a man/no child support because the man just walks, can't be found, doesn't work or doesn't care. A lot of those woman are escorts and when you come to the door and pay them, it restores their faith in men because many of us have not known men like that in our lives.

I have one regular client who has stuck with me despite my move. I drive to LA to see him when we pick a day that works for the both of us. For me, he is prince charming. I value his kindness and his compassion and when I see him, I am elated because the whole package of the way our friendship works is one that bring me great joy.

I think what occurs here is far more serious than you want to take it. You don't seem to understand the value of what you do for many ladies in terms of moral, emotional and financial support. If you did take the time to get to know them as people, you would see that you are the way out for them, of bad marriages, of physical abuase, of situations that are often disparaging and financially impossible. I agree, that escorting probably shouldn't be forever but I know more than a few   providers who are single parents and have reasons for needing the flexibility of work schedule. Even some younger girls are working hard to make a good life for themselves despite some tough obstacles.

If you understood that your support and company was much appreciated, you would never hurl insults to the degree that you have.  

In California, you've got a fair share of 19-23 year olds in $80,000 cars and girls that go to spas with their free time. I think better of the ones who go back to school because they are working toward goals. I have never been to a spa or been to a massage parlor in my life. I have been to nail salons but I quit that about a year ago when the economy tanked. Part of the reason for moving to Vegas was to lower my expenses and put money toward tuition. I applied to a 4 year college and got my letter of acceptance of my 60 transfer credits last month. So, no it wasn't Seattle but yes, I that was the goal, majoring in  computer engineering. Unfortunately, due to the economy and the fact that Vegas didn't have the business, I will have to forget about working toward my degree (at least for now) and just work toward making the bills. The money that I had saved for tuition for the fall semester got used for rent and food for the last 5 months. It's a catch 22. You make a move to scroll down  expenses but then when you get to the city with the lesser rent, the regular jobs don't pay and the escort gigs are nil.

Like you said, you can give your business to a 19 year old for $200 who will be slapped in the face by you calling her an old lady not worthy of your money when she's 40 or 50. I don't think any of this, for you is about value, passion, company, fun or eroticism. I think it's about power. You think you are powerful because you can rate a woman and say she's not "up to par" for whatever reason you devise.

The same woman who you are praising for her youth and beauty (that college student), you will be making fun of and disparaging when she is 60 purely because she has done something human, age. This is not a power game. It's a sport. When you make the relationship between man and woman into a power game, you will soon find that no one will want to be with you, even for free. You will be a very lonely man if you isolate people.

This one line:
I suspect that every guy who has read this thread would like to see you have a real life, to do something worthwhile, instead of trying to sell your blonde hair and body for 3X the market value.

indicates what you really think of the ladies that select this occupation, that they are objects and body parts.

I have 2 film development companies, 10 clients in contract, 1 completed script of my own and a film deal before a major studio. I'm going to Chicago, NY, Boston, DC, Atlanta and Miami to make my tuition, the rent and a nest egg to continue my businesses. And no, I'm not staying at an efficiency. I'll be staying in a five star hotel having my toes licked and mounting the head of some man who wants to be used for MY pleasure. You need a dominant woman to put you in your place.

HB

-- Modified on 6/10/2002 9:08:49 PM

thanks for being sane.

HB

Sorry about your demise, HB. You always wanted to be the best, oldest porn star and straight writer, producer, videographer,ETC

 It seems that you have always had money woes, remember the swallowed penny story? That and ever thread mentions your tremendous outlay for snacks/wine/drinks. That is part of your overhead, like wardrobe, hair whatever else.


You can't buy your way to the top, it happens when you win both the heart and mind of your gentleman callers. Saying how hot you are, then rejecting the same men  who wish to book you is not good. Men are gentle creatures and need respect when parting with the $$$.

     From another Chrissie

All valid points you make Heather, except the fact that when you were in LA you saw guys from morning to night, maybe not five a day, but many you had told me and at all kind of odd hours. I understand you wanted to get away from the incall location, but I would happily pay the extra $100 for the hotel room. Thtas $400 compared to your current $700. If you gave me that offer, I'd love to see you ASAP. As for becoming robot like, well you could see three guys a day and that would be about $1,000. Is taht a bad day? Nope.

I would rather scrub toilets than kiss the ass of an asswhole who doesn't even know me but verbally abuses me. There are a lot of women who are selective in their gentlemen callers. I am one of them. There are a lot of appointments I don't take by my own choosing and perhaps that will be my demise but I do have standards that go beyond the number of bills one carries. I don't waive those standards just because you throw money in my face.

Right, I didn't take the CPA who showed up high on coke. I also didn't take the gent with the entourage of 5 men in blue. In this business, we have to make 3 second judgment calls. They may be accurate. They may not be. You have to be able to size a situation up fast and decide if it's a safe one. That isn't rejection. It's minimalization of risk.

You see, many girls are willing to bullshit and tell guys what they want to hear to take your money, not all of them, but some of them. That's why some men will sign over their cars and tons of loot to find the ladies eventually won't give the men the time of day, return their calls...you've been hoodwinked. Stop giving them money and see if they will continue going to lunch with you. I don't play that game of 2 side manipulation where the guy tries to give the least and then the lady has to manipulate herself into his graces to get up to the amount she really wants per hour. It just isn't worth the headache. Some guy once told me...a really smart, nice guy who runs his own successful business...that every person or employee has a comfort zone. Once you find that comfort zone, the employee will be happy and perform at his or her optimum. Pay them less and they are thinking about the money rather than just focusing on what they are doing. It's an interesting theory.

Regardless of compensation, I am there for my male friends and always will be. They can call me or email me anytime just to say hi and tell me what is new with them, if they need advice or a shoulder to lean on in a difficult time and just want to go for a burger.

Scrubbing toilets has its dignity. I have absolutely no problem with honest work.

HB

Sorry - lawyers as lawyers have no social standing - consider all the lawyers jokes, and the fact that we don't trust the "justice system" to deal with terrorist. What they do get is the status given to money - never heard of a lawyer who wasn't a clock watcher, or gave anyone satisfaction in an hour.

After Enron, Tyco, Dynergy, Anderson, et al, CPAs are not in such high repute, either, coked up or no.

The personal attacks are uncalled for, obnoxious, and reflect only on their authors.

Nevertheless, there is some good insight among the nuggets.

Heather, as a business women, you are selling to the high end market. Either there aren't enough punters available, or you aren't getting the share you need. I salute you for doing the market research here on the board. It must be very difficult not to take every suggestion as a personal attack.

I submit that the folks on this board are not your target market. By definition, most of us are value shoppers, or at least, feel pretty upset about not getting our "money's worth." And those who aren't constrained by financial considerations tend to be variety hunters, who see multiple women per week, rather than seeing one woman at a time. Find some way to reach the high end consumers - maybe an ad in Forbes? Architectural Digest? Sail?

On the other hand, you might consider staying in a 4-star hotel, even using PriceLine to get a better price, and offering two hour appointments twice a day for $$$$ or $$$$$. I'd jump at that opportunity, to know the provider is not seeing 8 other guys that day.

It might also be possible that you are a bit too difficult to see. Maybe the CPA was "coked up", and maybe he was just nervous.  I made a special trip to LA in hopes of seeing you, but was completely put off by your phone manner/deposit requirements, and gave it up.

It seems possible that you are ambivalent about seeing anyone new, and that you don't hit it off as easily as some providers.  There is a provider in Dallas who insists on personally meeting would be clients over coffee - could that be a better way to vet guys who want to see you, and would it let a higher percentage through the screen?

Anyway, I think you're handling this pretty gracefully, and I hope it works out well for you in the end.

Anon O'Male

Appreciated the objectivity. I'm a busy girl trying hard on my new company and thus, escorting ISN'T my first priority. Thus, meeting people for just coffee isn't feasible. I am fairly high strung. I don't debate that. If I click with people I really click. If I don't, then I don't.

Best, I go to a higher end market since the 1 hour situation isn't my bag. See ya!

HB

He worked as a consultant to Milken, during the gravy years.  Made millions, becuase his particular financial talents were particularly valuable to that particular group of people at that particular time.

Then he found his world wrecked and his former boss in jail.  He was never implicated in anything and could have easily taken other jobs elsewhere.  It would have meant a pay cut from the high seven figures to somewhere in the six figures.  He refused to do it.  He was "worth" seven figures and nobody would tell him otherwise.  He didn't stay in "regular" hotels.  He didn't fly coach.  Hell, he didn't even fly on airlines, and if you wouldn't pony up the corporate jet then it was all YOUR fault for not realizing how great he was.

Ended up in bankruptcy, despite having made millions.  Refused to realize that things had changed and he needed to change with them.  Wanted to live in his personal delusion forever and it caught up with him.  Few people, even his friends, could find it in themselves to feel that bad for him in the end.  As in the classic tragedies, he pretty much brought his troubles on himself with excess pride.

Sounds like you've got a similar delusion going on.  Bitch all you want, but ultimately what we earn is determined by how others value us, and that will change over time for lots of reasons.  For whatever reason, the world has decided that your demands aren't worth putting up with.  I'm not sure the monetary price is the only problem.

MisterG

HB,

I think it is always harder to start up in a new market.  Your LA contacts and word of mouth simply do not translate to LV.  It would take years to establish what was working for you in LA.  

The economy is your biggest problem, especially after the terrorist attacks.  From March 2000 to today we have seen a consistent and extreme downturn in the tech market.  I work in that market and several of my experienced and highly skilled colleagues have been out of work for over a year.  Every month I hear from more contacts who are newly out of work and looking for new opportunities, which don't exist.  

From 1998 to late 2000 it was common for contract workers in technology to easily find work for $100 hour up.  Now those same contracts are offered (and are hotly competed for) at rates of $60 an hour or less.  That, combined with the reduced number of available contracts, means that there are is a whole lot less disposable income around for any hobby (or even for that cup of coffee that was suggested above).  

It should be noted that my out of work colleagues have all lowered their expectations in terms of compensation.  If you were also to pricing I think you would experience a higher response rate.  

Best of luck.  I enjoyed your web site.