Just got to thinking about why men try and cut out the agency.  Are we trying to save money?  Do we feel more power if there is no middleman?  Or is it just to "win?"
My buddy tries to get every girl's phone number who is with an agency that he can. Half the time he doesn't even call them, so what is the purpose of this?
Doesn't he think that if everyone went to WalMart and got the clerk to meet him out back with the stereo that pretty soon there would be no WalMart at all??? And it isn't like this agency is mean or nasty to him at all.  Plus, he pays the girl the same amount.
I have asked him what gives, but he has no response.
What gives?

Well, first of all, there aren't a lot of WalMart clerks advertising that they will sell you a stereo outside of the store. WalMart and other retailers exist because they offer a whole slew of products under one roof. People don't have to go to individual manufacturers or distributors to find what they want.

Which I think is one of the good points of agencies, in spite of their reputation for jacking fees up into the stratosphere and misrepresenting their gals. If you want someone immediately, a reputable agency will usually have someone available. It's a lot more convenient than searching the web for independents and leaving half a dozen voice mails and emails and then waiting by the phone hoping someone gets back to you and will see you that day. PC in LA is a good example: lots of fabulous women, good reputation for service, decent hours of availability, and high-end rates.

OTOH, there are lots of independents out there. The hard part for us clients is finding which ones are worth seeing. If we happen to meet someone we like through an agency (and assuming the feeling is mutual), it's only natural for us to wonder why the girl doesn't work independently. We wouldn't have to pay an agency fee, and the gal can keep more money.

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Godd points all, cardinal, but this friend doesn't even call most of them and yet he goes back to the agencies for his source of pleasure.

I think that it's a male thing to see if we can get women to "give it up".  Can we get them to kiss?  Can we get them to pet?  Can we get them into bed?  Well escorts do all of that so what can we get them to give up?  How about their real name? how about some of their fee?  And if they're with an agency, how about their personal phone #?  

It's all in the challenge to see how we can manipulate the situation. Don't you feel the power when you win?  Where is the power if you buy it?  Obviously more of a game for some than others.

Whadya think?

500 smackeroos for one hour with a girl that some chick on the phone says you'll like.  What's up with that?  If the Walmart analogy was correct you'd have the right to return the gal for a refund if she didn't satisfy 100%.   My only bad experiences have been through agencies.  I'll try and circumvent them any time because they're greedy bastiches.  Just my buck 380.

but I'm feeling cranky and not especially generous (or politically correct) today, so here goes:

1) Pimps are scum, and deserve to be sidestepped.  They need to get off their ass (or if they're female, on their back) and make their own living, don't skim off of someone else's hard work.

2) By the same token, the girls need to learn to be self-sufficient.  Find out what it means to promote and manage yourself, don't let some scam artist scumball do it for you.

The WalMart analogy is lame, because the two businesses are not even remotely similar.

I agree with your description of pimps.  But the classic pimp takes ALL the money, not just a fee.  The question really is:  Is the fee earned?

As a general rule I only date independents.  My reason is that in general they are, IMHO, better providers.  Some of the younger agency gals that are talented and become popular eventually become independent and are using the agency to, in effect, break into the business.  I would not equate agencies with pimps because of this.  However, the analogy is a little better than the Wal-Mart example.

I have in the past had many bad experiences with agencies:  Bait and Switch, upselling, all the usual complaints.  But there are now 2 agencies (1 local to me and one where I travel to frequently) that have proven their worth.  They provide quality gals at fair prices, and frequently in very short notice.  One of the agency operators (the local one) has become a friend of sorts and we frequently talk about the business.  This is what she says, explaining her position.  The agency provides the worker certain value added advantages.  They are in part:

Securing appointments.
Paying for incall rooms when appropriate.
Providing security checking on clients and during sesions.
And one very personal service: when she books me with one of her girls, she makes sure that the girl knows what I like in session and will gladly provide these services.  To me, that's real added value.

She maintains that in the long run the girls make out as well in this arrangement as they would as indies.  In fact, being an independent, IMHO, is running a small business.  If the provider doesn't have the inclination, or isn't really business-minded, then an agency arrangement may work out better for her.  One of my ATF's work for this agency.  She's real sweet, she a great provider, she's awesome to look at, but she simply is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.  The last time I was with her I actally had to help her balance her checkbook.

In fact the girls all compliment her on what she does for them and all say they enjoy working for her.  The same for the other agency (it's in Florida).

To return to the original question, as a businessman I understand loyalty and would not attempt to "steal" a gal from an agency, although on 2 occasions the girls have volunteered their numbers to me.  The only reason I could see for a client to initiate such a scenario would be an attempt to save some $$ on a session.

Often the agency has something we want that we can't get independently. An agency often marks up the price 50%. Add to the fact that the agency has computer records and is a much bigger target for LE and you have a number of very compelling reasons why people want to get around them. This has and continues to be an endless debate on the porn discussion boards where this is a major issue. Many of the hobbyists take pride and bragging rights on who they are able to see outside of the agency..

Pros and Cons to each... Personally I prefer independents. The porn stars I have seen I have been lucky to book independently except on one occasion.

90% of agency girls are not worth the time and effort. The 10% that are will become independent is a very short time.

You raise an interesting point, and one I never thought of:

"In fact, being an independent, IMHO, is running a small business.  If the provider doesn't have the inclination, or isn't really business-minded, then an agency arrangement may work out better for her."

True, but it presupposes that the agency is like the exceptional ones you mention.  Unfortunately, most agencies are like pimps.  Reminds me of HMOs, which have managed to screw both patients and doctors.  You describe two good agencies.  That's out of how many in your own personal experience?

The problem I used to have with agencies (and I'm talking about 15 years ago in Boston) was simply that the girls were never into it.  Just get the deed done as quickly as possible and move on to the next.  With the agency taking 50% to 70% of the fee, it's the only way the girls could make any money.

So my reason for going around an agency would just be to get the lady's full attention for the whole hour.  Of course it's easier to just forget the whole thing and see independents.

Of course it takes all kinds, and I'm sure there are guys who'd do it just for the pleasure of outwitting somebody about something.

You're on target.  The better agencies. like these 2 I know, take far less than the 50-70 percent you mention.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if the seedier agencies took alot more.

The 2 agencies I mention I sort of fell into through another hobbyist/friend of mine who used both and recommended girls to me from them.  I always used independents prior to these, and I still lean toward the Indie, because my agency experiences were all very negative.  But that goes back many years, before the Internet became a factor.  What the Internet has done is opened an avenue where guys like us communicate and warn off others.  So I suspect they're cleaning up because they're more at risk.  When I was in the Army, good Intel was worth its weight in gold.  The same applies here, and TER and other boards are the source of that Intel.  If some regular poster writes a rip-off alert about an agency on a local TER board, word gets out, and hopefully the agency suffers as a result.

As I research reviews on TER, I'm finding more and more really good reviews for agency gals, even those agencies in the more moderate price ranges (under $$$$ per hour).  This would mean that they're attracting better providers by giving them a fair split on the take.  I know that the agencies I mentioned take quite a bit less, especially the one in Florida, where the pricing isn't at all on the high side, and the quality is better than just decent.  It's downright terrific.  Read some of my reviews from down there.  And I'm sure there are other agencies all over the place that are better and/or improving.

BTW, your Boston experiences are still alive and well in Las Vegas.  I don't know much at all about the Boston area.

That the high prices they charged for their gals (average 700 an hour) was because each girl was sent to a glamour school and trained in the fine art of "hot and cold'.  That they only picked the best graduates, the ones who could carry themselves in any situation.  So I get this gal and since it's a 3 hour date and I was bored after the first (the hot and cold was more her mood then a technique, let me tell you.) we had time to chat.  Come to find out this hype of training and schooling was utter bullshit.  The girl said that their madamn pimp took them aside when they first signed up and talked to them for an hour or so and once they signed on the dotted line, viola, they were a high priced escort!

Such a ROB.

Most of what you read on agency sites about only selecting girls for their class, intelligence as well as beauty etc is utter rubbish.  As for sending them to school, give me a break!  lol

You turn up, you haven't got two heads, you've got a job is the way it works is most cases.

Hi,
I received a private number for an agency gal from one of the TER members via private email. I never asked for the number and the only reason I called was because I sent an email to the agency and after a week, I did not receive a response. Otherwise, I would not have done that.
FYI to all those who want to try the private number, be carefull.
Somehow, her SO got hold of my number and threatened me with bodily harm if I called her again.
This is not a joke.

It is theft, and I would think that the agency would surely cut the girl loose.  Maybe the client, too.  If they have enough clients and girls they would cut both loose, I would think.  Makes sense to me.
Anyway, I am not going to do it if I want a good working relationship with a non-rip agency.  Why risk it?  They will, most likely, be there alot longer than the girl I would think. Just IMHO.

It depends on other factors. In the porn star world, many of the girls do not want to bother having to deal with scheduling, and assuming the risks of travel and expenses that agencies will often pick up, especially if they are touring. Take alook at Exotica-2000. Many of those girls will not work independently. They don't want to assume the risks or the time of screening, and other costs. That is why they go through an agency.

Some of this logic might apply to independent girls as well. I just don't think you can sterotype everybody as one type or another.

Ignorance may be no excuse but I plead that anyway. I messed up and won't do it again. Live and learn I always say.

I've always wondered what it is that possesses men to walk in and say, "BTW, is Nicole your real name?"

Well, if it isn't, do you think I'm going to TELL you that? Obviously if I'm using a pseudonym, I'm doing so for a reason, don'tcha think??? It's not like there is a NEED for you to know here. It's that it's a challenge, that each of them wants to feel "special" and like I'm giving him a special concession I don't give anyone else. They also want to put me in the position of feeling bad   when I refuse to answer. (I don't, but I can tell they'd like me to! Passive aggressive, alrighty then!)

Well, for the record... each of you that thinks you're the only one to ask that question? *sigh* You're not

Hugs*
Nicole!