and I would do it again, when do we leave? lol

Of course I did take a different hooker to Hawaii for ten days and it was an unmitigated disaster, it too was OTC as we were dating at the time, but we broke up almost immediately upon getting back to the mainland. lol

The way I look at it, it is the exact opposite from the way Inicky describes it, rather than this being a trip with a LOT of rules it sounds like me to be just like a trip with a woman who is not a provider, so instead of her having to be "on" all the time, they can enjoy each other just like a civvie couple. Of course a lot of mongers don't want that kind of relationship as they are scared that the woman is not going to fuck them if they aren't paying, but I kind of like doing things the old fashioned way some times.

If we knew each other very well, and had very good chemistry, then I might go for it; not because of the $ issue, but because I'd like to see our relationship develops under new rules of engagement.

On the other hand, such an arrangement blurs the lines, so to speak, and so is fraught with baggage beyond what you check on the plane.  That envelope covers a lot of problems.

Good question that gets me thinking though.

You met a provider a few years ago.  You've seen her many times.  Overnights, etc.

Too many rules turn me off.

If you enjoy time with her just do it and see what happens. Sounds like a great opportunity as well as anticipation of the unknown. I dated a provider for six months. No regrets, would do it again.

It's like an extended booty call... Assured sex with lots of no-pressure time together doing whatever comes to mind (including solo time). Who wouldn't want it?

-- Modified on 11/2/2014 5:56:50 PM

The thing is, if you're going on a trip, the idea is to enjoy the new environment, the food, the saloons, the music, whatever. If you spend the whole time in bed in your hotel room, why go anywhere? And besides, sex is always on the lady's terms. We approach, risk rejection, she decides to take him in or shine him on. That's the way it is. Even with an envelope that's the way it is really. So keep it real. Nothing is stronger than real.

Some sex is definitely going to happen, and you obviously get along, so go!

She's just laying out her expectations so there's no dissapointment during the trip

There's more of an understanding that the woman is available for sex when he wants it.  But without the envelope, shes more comfortable saying, "You know, I'm tired.  Not tonight honey."

It's just the way it was described was off-putting.  If done right, I might be amenable.

Sounds like a reasonable deal to me.

Posted By: Skinny_Minnie

You met a provider a few years ago.  You've seen her many times.  Overnights, etc.  
   
 Now, you want to take her on a vacation for a few days.  Let's say to.... Hawaii.  
   
 You bring up the issue of, "How much compensation will I owe you?" to which she tells you, "You know what?  I don't want compensation other than you paying for the trip.  BUT, sex is on my terms.  Meaning, if I feel like it, we'll do it.  If not, we won't.  We also won't be doing greek or CIM like I've given in the past.  But, we WILL probably have just regular, no strings straight sex a few times while away.  Deal?"  
   
 Would you say this is a good deal or a bad deal?

Good deal for which party yourself, the provider, or the person taking the trip?

It sounds like a good deal for both of you.

That a hooker will strike off the list the things she really does not like to do (that's how I took the refusal)...makes one think what acts do hookers do that they don't like for the money. Take away the money and what would the average hooker take off the menu?

Even on a vacation type trip the fine details need to be discussed. Like how much sex is to be delivered for the fee, how much sleep etc. Or else how does either party negotiate those terms if they are not laid out?

Her stating that it would not be "sex on demand" is one thing, and something I am more than happy to accept. Separate beds means "sorry buddy, but you are on your own, not just tonight, but every other night of our little vacation" It's a clear signal that there will be little or no intimacy during our trip, and I have enough "friends" that can pay their own way to keep me company on a trip if that's what I was looking for.

Not to mention, bring a woman along with you means that you if you won't be having sex with her, you damn sure won't be having sex with anyone else either. I would much rather go by myself and take my chances of finding someone else to share my bed each night.

I will tell you over tequila sometime.

I'll give you a hint. It started the very first day we got to Hawaii. I got upgraded to a 1,000 sq ft suite at one of the nicer Waikiki hotels for the price of a standard room of around three hundred bucks per night. Her immediate response was that her "friend" could have got us a better deal. It went steadily down hill from there.

Shopping is reserved for Girl friends, and other women I am having sex with. I don't take my platonic friends shopping. I do take my platonic friends to dinner, drinks, and yes even to the spa, but "friends" can pay for their own shopping TYVM. lol

If we are going as a "couple" even if the sex is sporadic and even if it's not even that good, then yes, I would imagine a bit of shopping would be in the works, but if I am with a "cold fish" who I can tell is not interested in being intimate, I lose all desire to "spoil her", we can still have a good time, but if we are plainly not going to be couple BCD, than we aren't going to be a couple at the mall either.

But still some stipulations. By trip expenses paid, I would consider that flight and hotel, activities, and some meals. That would not include shopping trips or spa trips etc. That would not include seperate bedrooms. Even if sex is not at my whim, we would still be sleeping in the same bedroom.

If the gentleman going on the trip wants to spend time with the lady.

Why even mention that?... You say the weirdest things.

And I divorced her.

Posted By: Skinny_Minnie

You met a provider a few years ago.  You've seen her many times.  Overnights, etc.  
   
 Now, you want to take her on a vacation for a few days.  Let's say to.... Hawaii.  
   
 You bring up the issue of, "How much compensation will I owe you?" to which she tells you, "You know what?  I don't want compensation other than you paying for the trip.  BUT, sex is on my terms.  Meaning, if I feel like it, we'll do it.  If not, we won't.  We also won't be doing greek or CIM like I've given in the past.  But, we WILL probably have just regular, no strings straight sex a few times while away.  Deal?"  
   
 Would you say this is a good deal or a bad deal?

I'd assume shopping would be included, within reason.  Spa, hadn't considered that.  But that's probably only included if it's his idea.  And separate bedrooms- yes that's overkill.  Wouldn't demand that.

BEFORE there's an envelope, he contacts a woman who has made herself available. She may or may not respond to his email, PM, voice mail, whatever. Depends on whether or not she wants to share time with him. If she senses danger, of course, she might ignore his approach. Or if seems rude, cheap, stupid, or just plain fat and ugly. Or, if she's not in the mood or has someone else in mind that she wants to see at the time he requested. Her livelihood depends on her seeing SOMEBODY, but if she has successfully displayed her availability, she has plenty of suitors to choose from. So, if she rejects him, that's the game and he can move on try someone else. If she accepts him and what he offers to bring to the table, sound the trumpets! They have a beautiful night ahead of them. But it's her choice. Then, when the envelope is properly delivered with the elected gift inside, she allows him to have what he wants (within her boundaries, his appetite, and commonsensical courtesy. For some this means they will enjoy an acceptable glass of wine, listen to acceptable mood music, have some acceptable conversation, enjoy acceptable sex, and part at an acceptable time on acceptably good terms. Others ALLOW for something more adventueous.

Posted By: Skinny_Minnie

There's more of an understanding that the woman is available for sex when he wants it.  But without the envelope, shes more comfortable saying, "You know, I'm tired.  Not tonight honey."

I'm just not paying extra for a seperate room. If she wants to pay for the room, she can.

The way Minnie enumerated the rules sounded like a lecture.  I understand there need to be limits and an understanding, but if they are no communicated well it sort of let's the air out of the situation.  We are probably talking semantics here.

-- Modified on 11/2/2014 2:31:37 PM

and how I react to the "ultimatum" depends upon the same. Are we going as escort/client, or as something else

I think you just described genuine GFE.  If I like the person then why not?  It's only money.  I'm glad I can afford it.   And while sex is great, there are other great things about a trip with a woman you enjoy being with too.   Chances are there would be some sex, along with some shopping (albeit here the envelope would likely cost less), and some good eating and drinking.  What's not to like?

If he's a nice guy, he'll give you some time off anyway (or insist on specifics), but if your sex drive is lower...

I guess that takes away the client/provider agreement.  Turns it into a "friends" thing.  It also takes away any obligation for her to "be on", wear lingerie, put on a GFE fantasy... Which is a lot more relaxing for the girl, but maybe the sex isn't swinging from the chandeliers like it is when she's on the clock.  BUT you save a few bucks and may get tossed a bone every once and a while.  Lol

As long as the girl paid attention to me and focused on our time together, not to make new contacts there or to work. I wouldn't have a problem with it.

She changed the parameters of the relationship and move from escort to civie gf. She loses income and he loses the provider's full set of skills. It's a lose-lose.

That's a very good response.  When I saw the OP - I thought to myself that I really wouldn't want to take a woman to Hawaii (civvie or not) if I did not think that I was going to get laid on a daily basis. That does not mean continuous monkey sex.  

in which case I'd tell him exactly what you just told me. It seems easier to adjust behavior and expectations when the context of the relationship is clear. It also "feels" much friendlier to hear it as you just stated than to hear "sex on my terms".

-- Modified on 11/3/2014 5:31:44 AM

They can loathe the sex acts but just not tell you they do? OKay I get that, ignorance is bliss type thing.

because as stated, I've already seen the"working" side of the gal and obviously enjoyed her menu since it's included "many visits and overnights, etc".

I think the motivations behind this arrangement on both sides are well-intentioned but my instinct is that it's a bad idea because it confuses boundaries. I suspect that there'd be a pretty good chance of disappointment and resentment one way or the other. I've traveled with my ATF and have made plans to do so again and it was wonderful but it was still on the clock. The reality you describe is that the guy is still paying for everything and whatever he "agrees" to up front, i'm pretty sure he may want more time for intimacy than the lady will.

It's totally hypothetical with me, since I'm no longer hobbying and just read here for entertainment.  But it IS an interesting question, so I'll give my thoughts FWIW.