something more like Canada or England, where what 2 consenting adults do behind closed doors is in no way criminal? Including having sex and passing some gifts and/or money around?


HH

but it sure solves an awful lot of them. P4P is legal in most of the non muslim world and seems to work just fine.

Having licensed and bonded contractors does not take out all the fraud and abuse in the construction trade, but it works a hell of a lot better than if it were an "underground" industry like the sex trade.

I hobby A LOT in Latin/South America and they almost without exception disallow large gaudy signs, billboards, or any other means of advertizing that would be offensive to the public at large.

For that matter most of the "casas" in Colombia don't even have signs of any kind, if you don't know what's behind the doors, you could easily walk right past a brothel and never know it was there.

Vegas, baby!!! or the nearby counties anyway.

I could be wrong but I'd bet the Nevada model would be the most likely to be adopted. Mostly because there are no visionaries at the State level of government in the U.S.

Some states are so pathetically run - cough, cough, arizona, cough - that when the voters mandate new laws or programs with a majority vote, some facist yahoo elected official will try to block or foil the attempts to administrate the law the voters asked for.

Once one state does something, other states often emmulate it to some degree.

I don't think private sexual activity between adults NEEDS government regulation. Many marriages are a form of contractual prostitution. Men use money to attact women. Women latch onto and give it up to men for their money. A young boyfriend buys her girl a beautiful ring and she lets him be the first guy to have anal sex with her. ...and on and on and on and on. And somewhere in all those situations are people who may manipulate, use, take advantage of, cheat, trick, lie, hurt and do all sorts of unsavory things to another person.

Such is life!!! Laws don't fix life.

Decriminalizing one-on-one arrangements between consenting adults is the right thing to do, and should be done immediately. All the rest of the matters of commerce and public health do not, in my opinion, have anything to do with the one on one.

I can give you money. That's legal!

You can fuck me. That's legal!

I should be able to give you money when you fuck me. So simple.


HH

Guys in the U.S. often seem to think that legalization and regulation would fix all problems.  Below is a link to a story that describes thinks pretty well.  On the surface...

Not everyone in Northern Europe works out of a brothel.  A lot of girls are independent.  I know a few who participate in the management of their or other brothels.  One girl I know bought her own property and recruited pals from the street.  

The problem is the fringe stuff.  Even with legalization and legal protection, there are dark areas of the business.  Personally, I think it's not because of any good effort on the part of governments and social services -- it's just too easy for criminals.  There's a lot of money involved, and a lot of the girls needing the work seem easy prey.  That's just my personal impression.  But I've seen a lot, worked in the area.  Know some people pretty well.  I went from naive to sometimes scared to ...well, not exactly cynical, but... sort of indifferent.  The world is the world.  Stuff ain't so easy.

Just thought this would be interesting to post here, because as I said, I think it was a pretty good surface description of things after the experiment a lot of people here advocate.  And yea -- a lot of politicians in Berlin call it that 'an experiment'.  They consider the results mixed.  But I think legalization is here to stay.  The illegal work and trafficking is the main problem.  Maybe they'll take the Swedish route.

Posted By: HalfHour

something more like Canada or England, where what 2 consenting adults do behind closed doors is in no way criminal? Including having sex and passing some gifts and/or money around?


HH

I have to say, it's nice living in a country where things are decriminalized and I don't have to be concerned with arrests.

Legalization does not solve all the problems that come with the P4P world.  However, it does allow LE to stop wasting time chasing down women who are participating free of will.   Too much is wasted in the way of valuable resources and time chasing down the wrong women.

All the necessary laws to prosecute already exist without needing a specific set of laws against prostitution. There are already laws for rape, kidnapping, forcible confinement, extortion, theft, aggravated assault, uttering threats.   By removing prostitution laws, the police can focus on rapists, pimps who force women to participate and steal their money. It also allows women to turn to the police when they are assaulted by a client.   So rather than arrest any random person they can get their hands on, it's only violent and abusive offenders that are arrested.  

I do however believe in maintaining laws that keep the sex industry out of the public eye.  I think brothels with giant signs and women in the windows are inappropriate, as I think street walkers are.  No one else hangs a flag about their sex lives, it's generally considered to be private.   What I appreciate about Canada is that we not only leave sex workers alone, but ensure that it is kept private.

I hobby almost a third of the year in countries where prostitution is completely legal, but there is, and probably always will be a stigma attached to prostitution. At least towards the women. Call it a double standard, but a man is simply "getting his needs met" while the woman is still a whore, legal or not. Sucks, doesn't it?

I am writing an Argumenative research paper on this very topic for a college English  class..
I will share parts of this in my paper and let you know my final conclusion and the grade...

Feel free to share comments and post on this article.. I would love to hear other view points..

There are options for the lower tier Ho's in Germany.

Being legalized would be great for all girls. When I worked in Canada, ladies need a licence in order to work. This licence protects alot of ladies in the sense of security. For example, there was a provider who had been imprisoned by a client. As most ladies have to call in, or out to agencies, she was not able to respond. And when she did not respond to the pages or phone calls, the police went to investigate it. Fortunately for her, she is alive due to this feature.

As a worker from Germany I felt unburdened because it was legal. I worked for a madame who treated us exceptionally well. I was one of those who was tanned, smelled nice, was in great shape and very content. We traveled all over the world with our clients. We didn't have to worry about screening, or plane tickets or hotel reservations or transportation. This was all taken care of in advance. We pay taxes, have health care and retirement accounts. We didn't walk the streets, we lived in nice homes which we bought ourselves. She did have a brothel as you call it here but we called it a Spa. There were girls who were licensed massage therapists who did spa treatments for the gentlemen. We had a restaurant and bar and you would be surprised how elaborate the entire house was decorated. The men didn't pick from a line of girls standing in front of them, they had a portfolio they could go through that showed the girls available for the day. Each girl had a beautifully decorated room and private bath attached. I know you are saying this is not what you think of when you hear the word brothel. If you walked by during the day it looked like any other house on the block. In every industry there is the high end and low end, I would say we were at the higher end of the industry. We didn't see 4 or 5 or even more gentlemen per day. One per day was all you were allowed. Yes, you heard me right. One per day. We were expected to have other things to do with our time. You have to recognize though that having drinks with the gentlemen and dinner and then adjourning to your room could be 4-8 hours depending on what was requested. We were considered courtesan companions and we enjoyed our work and our gentlemen.

That is awesome.... I also writing a research paper in my English class, although we had to chose from a list, & there was nothing in that list that could be re-done to include this particular venue. Sounds like fun... it's always great when you get to write about something that you are passionate about!

...or just wanting to know more.  The link has good information

Yes, Gambler is exactly right: Legalization doesn't remove the stigma.  Many of the women I knew/know -- even the upscale ones -- hide what they do from family & friends.

CentralSeeker:  Yes, the 30 Euro daily 'tax' as well as brothel/room usage fees, etc are in part designed to knock away women who can't really make it in the business.  It's a reasonable idea, but not foolproof.  Many many women who simply never pay the taxes (that's why a lot of them work the street and service in cars & parks, or do exclusively hotel/house calls).  Many of the non-paying women (at least in Western Europe) are foreign.  They just move or disappear if they run into trouble.  In general, brothels or 'spas' or clubs are strict about collecting their share, and often also take care of the taxes & fees.  Basically, the girl pays for the right to work there, and then keeps the rest.  

With regard to the article: The girls on Oranienburgerstrasse (the 'high end' girls described in the article) collect the cash, but turn it over to the room owners when they go in with a customer.  The room owners take their 'rent', are supposed to take care of taxes, and give the rest back to the girls.  Some girls overcharge if they can, but report only the usual fee to the room owners.  She pockets the difference.  Or she services in the park, and never reports the income.  On Kurfürstenstrasse, the 'low class' area mentioned in the article, almost all the girls are foreign, and few report their income to anybody.  They take customers to nearby rooms often run out of the back of bars and the customer pays for the room usage (about 10 Euros).  I know quite well two women who are 'bosses' in Germany.  One is a brothel owner.  She is sort of like a mother/chaperone to a bunch of rowdy girls, most from Eastern Europe.  The other owns rooms.  I actually helped her set up her business.  She decided to charge her girls a LOT more than the typical daily rate for room usage in the area -- about 3X.  The high price wasn't my idea.  It was hers, partly because she didn't want to waste time working with girls scraping by.  And she is pretty greedy.

Once government regulations come into it, it will raise the price, and fuck things up.  See Nevada!