As far as I could tell it was just a speculation, nothing more or less. I didn't see any "idiocy" in it at all. You may disagree with his conjecture, and that's fine, but to name call over it seems to hurt whatever point you were trying to make.
While I would never see a 1.5k lady, the math is rather simple. She really only needs a small number of dudes willing. Let's say she has 6 regular clients. 2 see her weekly. 2 see her once a month. 2 see her every other month. That's about $19,500 a month. and about $234,000 a year. Now, throw in the occasional randoms that don't rebook, and she could easily hit 300k with a small number of clients. Then, throw in that not all of these dates will be just 1 hour. Now she's in the 400k-500k range. I imagine the logic for the very high end ladies is they have a small number so hooked and locked in that they are willing to pay the high prices, and anyone else who books her is gravy.
And why would any dude do this? Well heck, if you have no game and/or looks, but make a boat ton of money, and you think you just found the hotest escort on the planet, you might not care if she is overcharging or not. You are single and have throw around and not care money.
The problem with these types of assessments is that they are pure speculation and not based on any real or verifiable data. I am a venture capitalist and I always amused when entrepreneurs tell me that the market size is $5 billion and they can easily get 5-10% market share. Ha ha. So, Zeel, after you get some hard data from high end ladies that you can validate, come back and make your case. By the way, most of us rich dues are good looking, have game and don't care about costs because 1.5K is just a rounding error.
Haha, it's funny how you downplay what I wrote and ask for hard data, but then say most rich dudes are good looking and have game. You have data for that? Honestly, I would argue the opposite is true. I'm not talking actor, musician, CEO rich. Those are like the 1%. I'm talking about the engineers, statiticions, data analysts, etc... types. The ones who are uber smart and work for someone else. On average, I would agrue they are not good looking and have zero game. But you want data on this? Of course I don't have that, as you do not either. This is based on my observations. Let's just say I work in a setting where I see many many of these people come and go, and can say I have seen thousands of them over my lifetime. Take my personal experience however you choose.
But back to the other part. Nothing about my original post was intended to not be speculation. I have zero idea how many clients they see and why they make their choices. I was simply pointing out how few clients they need at that rate, and therefore I can see why they might be able to do it.
I'll toss in some simple support of part of your post. For those with lots of money, standard economic concepts like diminishing marginal value/utility, which do see to have been empirically well supported in a lot of economic analysis (but I'm not going to find cites for it), support the speculation that some will make such payments. (Can that even be disputed -- or are people claiming no of these providers get paid that?)
People that are pulling in millions a year will not even notice spending 2000 to spend an hour with a lady they want to have sex with. Their marginal valuation of a dollar is MUCH different than mine is.
your last sentence, is obnoxious and encapsulates what is wrong with our society and the world. Shallow, narcissistic excessive self-awareness. "By the way, most of us rich dudes are good looking, have game and don't care about costs because 1.5K is just a rounding error." In my experience (as a Harvard Graduate) "rich dudes" tend to be just like the rest of the "dudes" in terms of appearance, personality and everything else....a great big mixed bag.
But I seriously doubt you are either rich or good looking...venture capitalist? If that's true then you'd recognize that Zeel was simply positing a theoretical model of what a provider might earn making 1.5 an hour as a low volume selective type....such theoretical models have their place too in business. Many times collecting data isn't possible, and you just have to take that leap of faith and start a business based on a vision or theory, and THEN see what happens by analyzing the resulting data and adjusting.....sometimes you fail sometimes you succeed. And data can just as easily lead you astray as it can help, in the context of starting a business. You collect it if and when you can easily and cost effectively do so.....Zeel's scenario is not one where you can do this.
He doesn't need to "come back" when he's collected data....he's made his case.
-- Modified on 8/3/2024 11:33:35 PM
In addition to all your other issues, you severely lack any sense of humor. I was just being sarcastic with my comment. Of course, there are wealthy dudes that are good looking and have game and there are those that aren't attractive and don't have game. Zeel's generalization about rich guys that pay a ton is just plain idiotic. By the way, Zeel didn't construct a theoretical model, he just made some unsupported assumptions to make his case. Not convincing at all. One thing I do believe, without any hard data, is that 90% of the people that post on this blog think you have finger diarrhea and would do folks a favor by just shutting up.
As far as I could tell it was just a speculation, nothing more or less. I didn't see any "idiocy" in it at all. You may disagree with his conjecture, and that's fine, but to name call over it seems to hurt whatever point you were trying to make.
I ask only because I have it on good authority that researchers from Harvard, the Sorbonne, and the London School of Economics regularly turn to TER for guidance and insights on modern statistical sampling, sound empirical modeling techniques, and advances in the scientific methodology of surveying large populations. Am I going to have to disappoint them with the news that we're just talking shit?
Zeel, I was really expecting a Venn diagram. That is really the least you could do here. LOL
"Newto1000" is NOT Jesus Christ.
Ok....fair enough. It was a shitty attempt at sarcasm.... but I'll take your word for it.....
Never heard "Finger Diarrhea" before, imaginative....
Zeel did construct (unintentionally) a very basic model with specific parameters...I'm not saying it's right or accurate, but it could theoretically be accurate for certain providers.
Remember, many women in this biz have very lucrative civie jobs and/or make money camming, have a profile on OF, or what have you. That is why the normal rules of supply and demand don't always work for providers, for it isn't always their only money stream. Many women have decided to jack their rates in recent years, go out much less, and make as much if not more for the year than before when they were working much more often.
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I play in the money range you mention often, but not exclusively. Fortunately, I have the funds to do so. When I see a woman I am wildly attracted to, whom I can verify and determine if we are a good fit, I will pay that amount as I have had incredible success in doing so.
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So what you may call "overcharging" is just a matter of POV or perspective. Hot, young, beautiful, friendly GFE/PSE skilled women come at a premium, and I am willing to pay that price in many circumstances, when I feel everything lines up perfectly.
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Intriguing post Zeel. Thanks for it.
Yeah, you are right about the other revenue streams. Some will do porn too. I've met some that have their own small businesses. I met one who often travels for work, and she sees clients in the cities she travels. It's pretty smart. All her travel expenses are covered by work so her profit after expenses margins are much higher.
I see what you are saying, but guess I still feel they are overcharging. I don't blame them per se, because why not if they can? But I have had great success at the $600-$700 range. I have been with some of the ones charging $1000-$1200-$1500 when they were in my range. They were all great. But not so much better than what I tend to find in my range.
But sure, I need to work a little harder to find them. If I had throw away money, I might not care either. There is certainly a wider selection of hot young women as you increase what you are willing to spend.
I often hear guys say "Why would I ever pay $1000+ when I can find great women at half that?" I can't argue that point as he may have differing tastes in women and I would never suggest he pay more than he needs to be satisfied. But specifically to your point, the higher price point widens the pool of available women I find attractive and compatible for my needs. That pool of women shrunk after Covid and Sesta, so I find myself more than ever gravitating to women whose cost is substantial.
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Some men come to this lifestyle looking only for sex, and I don't criticize that at all. That was me at one point. But to me, the sex is only a part of the entire experience. A vital part to be sure, but just a part. As I have gotten older, I really love the wining and dining, the human interaction with great convo, the lengthy, quiet post-coital down time of hugging and snuggling, and the numerous other things that occur in a lengthy bedroom then restaurant experience. To each his own. That is the great thing about this realm. There is someone for virtually everybody if you are willing to do your homework.
“That pool of women shrunk after Covid and Sesta.”
I guess like everything else this life too has changed post COVID. Curious where these people went? This level of money is not easy to make in a 9-5. I had stumbled into a high level booking agent before those things. He now blames Only Fans as the reason. Stay home and make more money!
Wonder if the client pool has shrunk after Covid and Sesta laws?
Enjoy sounds as though you are in a good place!!
I have a feeling guys tend to overestimate the income of most providers because they fail to account for expenses. Being a high end provider is costly. Hair and makeup is costly. Escorts have to purchase expensive clothes and lingerie. They have to book shoots with professional photographers. Gym memberships and trainers cost money. There are the costs of booking ads and maintaining a website. Hotel rooms are expensive these days as well, especially in areas with lots of high end clients. Many guys on here don't appreciate the work required to break through and compete at that price point. These girls are working their booty off outside of the hour or two a client books with them. Their higher rate reflects that.
The costs, time and effort can be enormous for these women. I met with a gorgeous young woman just yesterday and her attire, hair, make up, space, etc was all simply spectacular. She clearly spent considerable time, money and energy preparing for our date and it was noticed and so greatly appreciated.
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I think us gents tend to only focus on the providers rates, and not the costs and time involved, so your post is not only accurate but insightful. Great addition to my OP. Thanks for pointing out the other side of the coin.
Most guys don't appreciate the differences between $500-$700/hour and $1000/$1500+/hour. The escorts in the $500-$700 are typical good-looking women while the ones charging $1,000+/ hour start to look like a fantasy come to life. The ones at $500-$700/hour look like a women I might flirt with and pick up at a bar. The ones charging $1,000-$1,500+/hour look like models who hang out at high-end night clubs that I can't get into. These women are out of my league. They would ignore me if I approached them in public. Some guys will say sex is sex but... it is different when the other person is super hot. On the sex side, I'm just hornier which makes me perform better. Also there is a psychological/ego boost. The combination of spending money on something most people can't afford while hooking up with hot women who are unavailable to most men can really make a guy feel special and powerful. Its even better when you log onto a board like this and see guys complaining about the hot women who are too expensive for them. I'm not surprised they can't see the value in something they can't afford or experience.
There are some pretty good finds in the $600-$700 range IMO. It's just harder. For many ladies, they don't enter the market at $1k+. I have done a decent job at catching a few of these newbies on the way up who are now $1k+. They are not necessarily better than they were, they just realized they can charge more, especially as word got out.
Also, and this one is a little more giving something up, I find some foreign ladies who don't speak great English will stay in this range. I have had good luck with a few Brazilians. Absolutely stunning models. English was just okay though.
And, there are some races or ethicities who struggle getting as many clients as white women and stay in this range, but are also model level hot. And I am not one to feel a hot white woman is any better than a hot non white woman. A couple of black women I have been with literally look like they can be on the cover of Vogue.
That said, when I look at the $800 ladies, which there seems to be many of these days, and I cross check with their reviews, the number of options jumps significantly. $700 used to be the magic number to the hotter ones. It seems $800 is now.
I'm not convinced I need to consider $1k plus just to get to the hotter ones. I think that's the price you pay for specific ones you may want to be with, but not necessarily better ones.
Do you mean like a temporary illusion of being somehow better than some other guys because you paid 1k for a hot woman to spend time with you?
Like it gives you good vibes to look at other fellow clients who can't afford (in your opinion) and laugh at them? "Haha u too poor lulz".
You and cdl are actually a lot closer than you might think 
The ones charging $1,000-$1,500+/hour look like models who hang out at high-end night clubs that I can't get into. These women are out of my league.
Did you do any or was it a TOFTT thing? Personally before I spend that kind of money, I do tons of research. Girls in any price range can be deceptive. There are never any guarantees. I would argue the more they charge, the more research needs to be done.
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From experience, I can tell you that the women in that price range, when the proper research is done, almost always live up to expectations but of course, anyone can have an off day. That is just human.
There were four reviews on TER with glowing reviews. I wonder if the guys were coerced into writing those. The booker tried to coerce me.
That info usually comes out in the wash if you pm them. Sorry this happened to you. With the money you spent you expected more and being coerced by anyone to do anything in any business is wrong but to do it in an illegal one is insane.
@ RespectfulRobert, : I didn't know you can contact the reviewers at the time. So, I didn't do that. My bad.
involves an embarrassingly small annual fee compared to what guys pay in a year for pussy, but it gives you PM capability and you just click on the reviewer's username and it opens a form for you to PM him privately and directly. It's invaluable for vetting providers you may potentially want to see. When the conversation is unpublished and private, I have found that fellow reviewers will be more candid and forthcoming about any negative aspects they did not put in their review. TER will ban any member who publishes content from a Private Message with another member, so there is a certain freedom in being able to say whatever is on your mind without fear that it will come back to bite you in the ass.
@coeur-de-lion: I usually pay for the membership as needed. I did have the membership at the time but didn't know of the feature. That was almost 10 years ago.
Who was the booker? Did you blast the booker publicly?
I would, absolutely. I would make sure any time someome would Google their agency the first thing they'd encounter is that the booker coerces clients to write glowing reviews.
Fucking scumbags.
@ team_rocket_qwerty: I don't have the booker's name...it's been 9 years...SP in question disappeared long time ago
I am so glad you spent your morning figuring out this hypothetical but as someone from the inside who knows sex workers in all price ranges and that also reside all over the earth I can tell you this *may* be true for a few but is not true for most. Most "high end" providers have another job and do not count on sex work being there sole source of income.
The gals that make the most money from sex work by far are those that are in the lower to mid range price point and treat this job as an actual job and put in the work and effort to be successful. Your fantasy hypothetical though I did find quite entertaining, but not really based in reality from the experience I have as a provider.
I spent less than ten minutes, and it's meant to be speculation on what could be, and more so to stir dialogue here. I know I am less privy to what's going on then you are as a provider. Robert also pointed out them having other jobs, which also makes a lot of sense. It's a situation where they don't need the money, but heck if one is willing to pay that much, they won't say no.
Is by having a sugar daddy who books multiple hour appointments. Remember providers will charge what the market will bear and how long they can wait without an appointment. The ones who want instant money will have lower rates. The ones who can wait days or weeks will have higher rates.
I know some who could charge a lot more if they had OF, but won't do it because they don't want put the effort for it.
It also comes down the class of men that they want to deal with.
Agree on the OF, I have thought about it but I too an generally lazy AF.
From my observation I would say there are two groups of providers:
Those that utilize the Franklin Covey life plan model and those that don't.
Regardless of the price point the former are going to be exponentially more successful and happier than those that are living a life that is on the verge of implosion.
.....Isn't he the white guy married to the black woman who lives upstairs from George and Louise Jefferson? 
Scarlett! Did you attend one of their leadership/coaching seminars or classes??
-- Modified on 8/7/2024 1:16:40 AM
Is that anything like "est" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhard_Seminars_Training ? Or any of the parody versions, such as B.E.A.T. in the movie Semi-Tough?
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Richard Feynman once went to the Esalen Institute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esalen_Institute
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mr-skeptic-goes-to-esalen/
"The Esalen Institute is a cluster of meeting rooms, lodging facilities and hot tubs all nestled into a stunning craggy outcrop of the Pacific coast in Big Sur, Calif. In his 1985 book, "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!" Nobel laureate physicist Richard Feynman recounts his experience in the natural hot spring baths there, in which a woman is being massaged by a man she just met. "He starts to rub her big toe. 'I think I feel it,' he says. 'I feel a kind of dent--is that the pituitary?' I blurt out, 'You're a helluva long way from the pituitary, man!' They looked at me, horrified ... and said, 'It's reflexology!' I quickly closed my eyes and appeared to be meditating." ..."
.....Isn't he the white guy married to the black woman who lives upstairs from George and Louise Jefferson?
Scarlett! Did you attend one of their leadership/coaching seminars or classes??
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I am now pretending to close my eyes and start meditating. Ommmmmmmmmm ...
Ha! I did not. When I graduated college and got my first "real job" in sales at a radio station my BF at the time got me one of the planners. It works! I made top sales person 3 months out of the first 5 months I was there. The bonus was $500 and that was a SHIT TON of money in 2000. I don't think I am as extreme as I was then but I can tell you the program does work and will make you successful in any profession and in life. (This is not a paid endorsement, fyi)
A rich dude with game will never need an escort as civies would flock to him.
Many wealthy guys who can get amazing looking civie women sometimes just want fast and a sure thing, sex wise. Neither is a guarantee with a non professional.
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There is also the thought that some men don't pay providers to arrive, but to make sure they leave after the deed. I am botching the exact phraseology, but I think Charlie Sheen made that sentiment famous.
+1
When I was the Director of Operations in Dallas of a large resort, my CFO said essentially the same thing. That was that good looking men would never need to see a prostitute. Little did she know that I was seeing them regularly a couple of times a week. I tried to play devil's advocate with her but that's how she felt....
Unless she knew all of that and was just trying to suggest something for you.
I certainly agree that the premise the rich, attractive men never have any need to seek out escorts is a bit far fetched.
That makes me wonder if your CFO was tricking on the side. "The lady dost protest too much, methinks."
When I was the Director of Operations in Dallas of a large resort, my CFO said essentially the same thing. That was that good looking men would never need to see a prostitute. Little did she know that I was seeing them regularly a couple of times a week. I tried to play devil's advocate with her but that's how she felt....
"I don't pay to fuck them. I pay them to leave."
CS said "I don't pay them for the sex, I pay them to leave when I'm finished."
Ok this I do generally agree with you, but there are a few exceptions. A wealthy man who is also blessed with looks and personality-plus will always have a bevy of choices of real world woman to bed, and in 2024, after the pandemic, many woman no longer play any form of "hard to get" or "chase the tail"....they are as forward and aggressive as men, more so when the know the guy has bucks. That's been my observation the last several years....
rich, but I have no problem finding women who want me as their boyfriend. What I learned when I became suddenly single at age 48, is that "girlfriends" require more "maintenance" than I'm prepared to spend my time on. This has only gotten worse since then with the improvement of smart phones. I was pleasantly surprised when having providers as girlfriends from time to time did not require the high level of personal attention and black hole on my time that civvie women do. Providers understand the value of time better than civvie girls do and are fine with leaving me alone when I'm busy with something else.
It's your modesty.
a few other "senior" veterans here is, . . . . keep it real. Lol
Wrong. They pay for the convenience. How else do you explain all the multi-millionaire athlete paying the hookers and strippers? Remember when James Worthy got busted hiring 2 hookers in Houston to the team hotel?
leave when he wants them to?