I saw a new provider recently, whom I hadn't seen before, and we got along well.  Not romantically, just enjoyed each other's personalities as well as the other stuff.

Anyway, after the first time we were talking, laughing, playing around - you know what I mean - and at a certain point the laughter stopped and things got a little more passionate.

But while we were just fooling around, we hadn't put any clothing on junior.  So when the inevitable happened...in the heat of the moment...yeah.  BB.

Now I would have NEVER requested this; and you all know how great that feels, both physically and psychologically.  And of course there are risks, which I will attend to later.

But this is the first time this has happened to me, after, I dunno, maybe 100+ provider visits?

So how common is this?  Anyone else have this experience?

Now thats what I call a GFE!  I'm always thinking about that stuff even if I do use a glove ... I couldn't imaging how paranoid I would be without using one.

Know your partner well, though.  You are taking a big chance.

This was a survey question awhile back, and a full 43% answered 'yes' -- they had done BBFS at least once with a provider.

It happened to me once, in an LPIN house (of all places!).  Very similar story -- neither of us planned it, the chemistry clicked and it 'just happened'.  Fantastic while it lasted, but generally wasn't/isn't worth the worry it generates afterwards.  Fortunately, in my case, nothing came back to haunt me.  You can't always be so lucky.

With all due respect to the wonderful and careful providers and hobbyists out there, there are folks on both sides of the transaction who are unstable, goofy, irresponsible and -- yes, antisocial and generally hostile.  

It probably wasn't more than it appeared to be, but I sure wouldn't risk it on the first time....

I've had this scenario presented to me before. It's pretty damn hard to resist temptation while in the heat of the moment.  I thought to myself....eh, what the hell it's only one time and I'm always safe every other time, etc..  In hindsight I'm very glad that I threw the glove on.  

Think about it....do you really think you are the one and only exception to the rule...that you clicked THAT well and she decides you alone are worth BB????  Of course not, she probably offers this to most clients she clicks with.

Going BB is like wearing your seat belt in the car.  The only time it really matters is the time you weren't wearing it.

so here's one thing I've done that works - put condoms all over the place like Hansel and Gretl with the bread crumbs! LOL

They're on the bed, the nightstands, the coffee table and couch, the kitchen - everywhere he's going to toss you around and f**k your brains out! So they are always in reach and ready to grab when your head is in the clouds..

Making assumptions can save your behind, but don't make assumptions when they are judgemental. In other words, you can assume that this might have happened with her before you and after you and therefore be prompted to get tested (you should anyway) but don't assume that she's the kind of girl that does this frequently and with any ol' guy because you never know - it might HAVE just been you - as stuff happens.
Don't beat yourself up over it, or think differently about her -just make sure to keep a clear head next time. After all, there's a lot to protect.

It's one of my only two rules.  The other, for the curious, is that there are just too many ways to enjoy sex to justify ever making your partner do anything painful or distasteful to her.

You might think she did bb with you because you are special, believe me, I've been there.  But chances are good that she has done this to other guys, why would you want to take this big a risk?

Ok...
You guys (and gals) are all very serious about going uncovered. And I agree. But what about BBBJ or DATY. In other terms for both parties, isn't uncovered oral sex as unsafe??
I am really willing to try at least BBBJ, but so far have hesitated because of the risks...
Thoughts?

Just make sure you remember where you stashed the love gloves when the fun ends.

No...never happened.  Would never want it to (in the commercial venue).

-Hoot.

"I've got your love glove right here, pal!" LOL

Never happened here......Have had one disappear in the middle of doing the deed and never really noticed till she rolled off and it was gone.

Would not start uncovered.  If fact would onl do it uncovered in a monogomous relationship.  How else would you know for sure she is safe.

-- Modified on 4/27/2004 5:45:46 AM

Ack

Oh, the connection... that explains everything! Now, I understand why both of you would take such a risk. Because of course you are The Exception. You are The One. There is NO OTHER guy that would ever get that with her.

Here's the thing. For you, each time you are with us is so unique and special... even if you've seen 100+ ladies, very few gents can afford to do that as frequently as we see clients.  For us, we share intimate and intense moments with LOTS of people, at least I do. If I went BB with every guy I felt a connection to, I'd probably be dead by now.

Every guy thinks he is the exception to all the rules.  That's the game sweets... to make you think that you are the Exception to the rules. It's very effective marketing, really, but it's manipulation that I am unable to do. I'm really awful at that kind of thing so I just don't bother.

Essentially what this woman is saying is that your money is more important to her than any risks she may be taking. Is that really something you can respect?

I know, you had a "connection." Sweetie, it is our job to enhance any connection that may exist or to create one if it does not exist. Sometimes it's easier than others, certainly, but I guarantee you that ten other guys could say the same thing about that girl... at least! It does not necessarily negate the reality of what you felt. I believe that one of the things I offer is a connection and the opportunity to touch my soul, if you care to... but the opportunity to stick your bare penis into me, would NEVER HAPPEN. You can touch my soul without taking unnecessary risks.

Boundaries exist for a reason.

I bet this is not what you wanted to hear, is it?

Best,
Tamara

You guys have to realize that if the lady has any kind of experience in this 'biz (I am not talking about a new girl), the odds of it "just happening" are a zillion to one. It happens, sure, but not 43% of the time. I dunno what LPIN stands for, but I'm assuming that you're talking about a lady with enough experience to know which way the wind blows... and that does not really "just happen."

But if she's REALLY good, she'll make you believe that it did, that you are the one exception, and then she will have you as a client for life, coming back for that "unique privilidge."

New ladies in this 'biz are more susceptible to the "It just happens" thing because lots of times, when you are new, you do not realize that you can feel an intensely intimate connection to MANY people, and that does not mean you can throw caution to the wind.

There is NO CIRCUMSTANCE that I would just "let it happen" without a condom (aside from that of a lifetime committment with someone). Even if I were raging drunk, I have a built in self defense mechanism that keeps me aware of condom presence... really, I've been in situations to test it out. Once I started screaming at a guy, and I was tied up, and it was BEFORE I got in the 'biz. (He actually was not trying to do anything without a condom... I just thought he might be. I got lucky, essentially, altho he would've had to tie me up a lot more to hold me down for condomless sex!) I have enough sex (both in and out of the 'biz) that for me this is imperative to my LIFE, not a game.

Best,
Tamara

What a fucking stupid thing to do. Please, leave the sandbox now. Nobody likes to play with people that don't play by the rules. Now you have wrecked it for every person you will have sex with her in TERland.

You must test negative and continue to test negative until you are in the clear. Why don't you take out all of your condoms and punch holes in them, fill them up with water, and watch them gush all over the place? You can't go out and have sex now, so you won't be needing them for 6 months anyway. What a waste of money.  

Life is Art, what kind of alias is that to hide behind? Next time you feel stupid, just ask me for a loaded gun. Its much faster.  You don't care about life, and there is nothing artful about leaving the condom on the dresser in its package.
She was a new provider? Now you could have effectively killed her career if she gets an STD. Smooth move.

Why do you want to know if this has happened to other people? Does it help you with your guilt? I am so pissed off at you. Now you post as if to gloat over what happened. "Look everyone, I got BB and I didn't even ask for it. I am special!"

FOAD! Go look that one up. I am certain that I am not the only one that feels this way. I am certain that you are not the only one who has done it either. Do me a favor, walk away from TER for about 6 months. It could save my life, and the lives of those people I care about here.

the truth like this.

I agree, not a cool thing......My case was a very long time ago. and I know it was there till almost at the end, Did panic for a while. Likely it was there till right when she rolled off. So there was no exposure.

Really uncool with someone you don't know.

My sentiments exact...

When I read these BBFS exploit/hijinks from alias posters
it smells of complete BS...
... both from any "normal" hobbyist and provider prospective.I can't see it happening in the TER world.
Its unconscionable!

My clients are educated, upscale professionals who certainly know better, yet some of them ask for BB intercourse during the heat of the moment.

I have to assume they get so carried away in the heat of the moment that common sense flies out the window.

In the rare chance I fell for a client and he became my boyfriend, I would eventually stop using condoms with him. However, that would never happen on the first session, no matter how passionate or deep the connection.

My motto (pardon the coldness) is:  "No glove, no love."  At the beginning of the date, place three or four condoms at the bedside or anywhere you think you might get passionate. It saves a lot of time and is hassle-free during times of foreplay. Who wants to grab one out of one's purse in the height of passion.

Hugs,
Ciara

Brothels are legal in certain counties in Nevada.  They are quite heavily regulated by the state however, and one of the biggies is that condom use is *mandatory* for all situations in which bodily fluids could be exchanged.  This rule is generally quite strictly enforced (both by the state and the local management).  Hence, my surprise at seeing this happen in this particular setting.

Thanks, Michelle, for saying what we should all have been saying to him.
We, the participants of this board, tend to look at your posts as entertaining and enlightening, and we forget how much you really care about the "hobby" and the people involved, and us in "TERland".

Again, from one who may never get the chance to meet you,
thank you for reminding us that this "hobby" is not all about fun and games.

Just my opinion...
B

I am wondering if you got that line from the same place I did, the movie version of "The World According to Garp".  Garp's teenage girlfriend was nicknamed Cushie...a bit of foresight by her parents.  One of my five all time favorite movies.

... I remember her saying approximately the same thing.  Both of you are right.

When you've done it as much as I have, you'll see it differently...it'd take me all day to explain. Keep the faith.

-- Modified on 4/27/2004 7:14:54 PM

Age is relative, buddy. I'm a well-traveled, retired Marine with kids, scars, and stories. Many of those stories had something to do with trying to get laid or something happening because I got laid. The less I let my dick think for me, the less trouble I get into. How can something so good cause so much pain? Like I said, sex is hell.

Relative, hell.  Something a younger man would try to say to an older man in an attempt to have equal rank.  It doesn't work that way.

Re:Ack

Actually I did have that connection with a client once before.  Feelings do sometimes happen as much as we try to remain detached.  Eventually we got to the point where we weren't see each other in the client/provider role and started dating.  Unfortunately it didn't work out, as his separated wife came back saying she was pregnant from before they separated and he felt pulled back in.  Miss him still, but cest la vie, that's the way it goes.  
That was 4 years ago and never even been tempted or caught in the moment again.
Perhaps we do get wiser with age

Re:Ack

PS It should be noted that when we agreed to go bare, we did get tested the week before and waited to be with each other.  Sparks flew and a connection was made.  Also it should be noted that during this time of "courtship", I stopped seeing clients.  So I dunno if this really counts or not with the subject matter.
After the affair, took a break and vacationed, came back to get tested again and started working

In fact, for both men and women the risk of HIV transmission by uncovered vaginal is about 10 times greater than by uncovered fellatio. See link.

For pharyngeal gonorrhea condoms have been shown to reduce risk by a factor of 17 (95% CI: 8.0 to 36.5). In theory they should be at least this effective against HIV. However, the small amount of experimental data available indicates that the risk reduction may be more like a factor of 7 for HIV.

Condoms are not absolute protection. I quote from the article Condom Effectiveness, Fitch et al, Sexually Transmitted Diseases, December 2002. These are from the list of points made on page 816.

(2) Patients using condoms should be provided with information to explain the difference between absolute protection (which prevents infection) and partial protection (which reduces the risk of infection). Condom users must know that condoms, at best, reduce their risk of some STDs and may or may not reduce the risk of other STDs.

(3) Patients using condoms should be provided with the information that their risk of contracting an STD increases with the number of desease exposures -- even when condoms are used consistently and correctly. This increase is even more dramatic with inconsistent or no condom use.

(4) Patients using condoms should be provided with the information that condoms are not equally protective for every STD. The actual degree of risk reduction provided by the condom depends on other factors, many of which are outside the user's control, including gender, mode of disease transmission, and disease-specific infectivity. Condoms appear to be "more forgiving" for STDs with low infectivities (such as HIV) than for STDs with high infectivities (such as gonorrhea in females).

---- end of quote from article

In short, the only safe sex is sex with an uninfected partner.

Point 3 above is actually the dirty little secret of condoms. The actual formula for risk is:

P(n,0) := (1 - p) ^ n

where P(n,0) is the probability of being infected 0 times after n exposures if p is the probability of being infected in a single exposure ( and ^ is the exponentiation operator).

For gonorrhea p (uncovered) is roughly 0.50 and p (covered) is roughly 0.50 / 17 = 0.029. (factor of 17 reduction in risk of infection).

P(20,0) is essentially 0 uncovered as you would expect (actually 0.00000095). What you might not have guessed is that P(20,0) covered is 0.550. Your risk of becoming infected is about 45%. The risk reduction is little more than 2 to 1.

From the Public Health standpoint condoms are very important. They slow the spread of disease (by a factor of 17 in the case of gonorrhea). The disease will die out of the population if (on average) each infected person infects less than one other person before he or she is cured or dies. (Of course new infections may be brought in from outside the population--witness the recent outbreak of HIV in the porn community where the infection appears to have been brought back from Brazil.) Condoms (and regular testing) help prevent the spread of STDs. You should be a good citizen and use a condom. We do not want STDs to be spreading through our population.

However, there seems to be a widespread belief that a condom will keep one safe if one has sex with an infected partner. There is a lot of truth to this if there is only a single exposure. However, for those who are exposing themselves many times to a partner who is infected (or partners who are infected) the belief is an act of faith comparable to the belief that ghost shirts would stop the white man's bullets ( http://njnj.essortment.com/nativeamerican_rmqk.htm ).


-- Modified on 4/28/2004 1:30:32 AM

That dating a married hobbyist is a major mistake 99.9% of the time. Don't kid yourself... the man who will leave his wife and family for an ESCORT is a rare find indeed.  And... the question is, do you WANT a man who a) was cheating on his wife with you and b) would drop her like a hot potato as soon as the next hot piece of a$$ crosses his path???? Be logical here!

I think you're proving what I said to be true, instead of disproving it.

Best,
Tamara

EQUAL? Equal to what? I know what I've been through and no one, older or otherwise, is going to diminish that just because their life took a different path. There are plenty of old, foolish, naive people in this world...your age doesn't put you above ignorance. Perhaps your ignorance is why you're pointlessly arguing against what amounts to my opinion about sex.

Have a great day.

So you are trying to tell me that a brothel employee who sees anywhere from 1-15 gents a day, several days a week, was so overcome by YOU, that she just... got... carried away....

Un huh... Hey, I have a bridge you can buy, right here!

Sweets... I really mean no offense by this... but this level of naivete' is just dangerous to you and others.  In terms of enforcement of brothel rules, well, is the madam (or whoever) in the room? Looking thru a peephole? Is the room lighted enough that they'd be able to tell anyways???? To a certain degree it's up to the ladies.

But hey, the people in the porn industry think getting tested every 30 days is enough too, so I'm sure that this girl feels completely safe offering this level of service to her clients...

*gasp*

Whatever... you'll either hear me or you won't. I hope you do.

Sincerely,
Tamara

Oh Lordy-  thank you for saying what I ought to have said...

I don't even do the SO without a glove... don't want little reminders...

Why does everyone hate condoms so?  I love them!  My SO doesn't have to deal with that pill crap and I get to have fun!  

Whiny men started a canard that they were unmanly and all you all bought it!  Spend 48 hours with a baby- then pop off!

I don't like dogs-  condoms are a man's best friend!

The fact that I outrank doesn't diminish you.  When you get to be my age you will understand.

Don't get your panties bunched up.

Outrank what? We're two guys in a newsgroup--there's no rank structure here. When I get to be your age, I'll spend my time manifesting my wisdom through my counsel of youngsters, not pointlessly bickering about how my age gives me "rank".

Respond if you like, but I'll be the grownup and end it here.

Take care, sir.

Actually he played the role of being a single male.  Found out about the wife afterwards.  Cut my losses.  I did say that sometimes we do learn as we get older...