Rants-3rd party...Are just that.
This is how horrible rumors are started.
-- Modified on 12/18/2008 5:08:30 PM
I was reading "the other board" and came across a thread in Tennessee about a provider and another hobbiest going to the place of employment and EXTORTING him for over 1000 dollars.
I read this thread, and was disgusted by it. There are actually people DEFENDING her for her actions. People, this crosses the line in SOOOOO many ways, namely SHE COMMITTED A FELONY!!!
She accused a hobbiest, on flimsy evidence, of attempting to ruin a M&G gathering and he owed her "pain and suffering damages, along with recouping her party losses" WHAT THE FUCK kind of bullshit is that??? I have NO idea who the acccused is, and I dont participate on that board, but what WHITNEY OF NASHVILLE, or Clarksville TN, wherever she is, did is 100% over the line, and she needs to be outed as a threat to EVERYONE. Going to the lengths she did goes against ALL codes of this hobby, and privacy is compromised to the greatest degree.
This not only makes hobbiests MORE nervous to give verification info to providers, but it will make it more difficult for providers to verify hobbiests since they will be reluctant to give certain information requested by a lady. What does this mean, it means guys will be hobbying less in some areas, and ladies are going to feel a financial crunch, maybe more so then they already might be. How does this benefit ANYONE?
I for one cant believe that the folks on "the other board" dont demand that she and her accomplice be BANNED from that board, but she better just disappear for a long time for doing this. Whats worse, is that she is proud of what she did, and ADMITS to extorting him. How great is that, she ADMITS to commiting a FELONY on a National Board.
I dont know how many here read "the other board", but look on the Tennessee board and read that thread. When I read the first post by the accused, it makes me wonder if he paid her and admitted to doing this to make the situation go away or what. If she has his place of work, and showed up there, who knows what lengths she would have gone to if he refused to pay her. This guy could have a WHOLE lot more to lose, and he didnt think it was worth it.
If he did it, hell, put him on a DNS list in that area. But extorting him, commiting a felony in the process, how stupid can a person get.
So, WHITNEY OF CLARKSVILLE or NASHVILLE, wherever you are, consider the word going out on you across the entire TER community.
Sorry for the rant, but this was going WAYYYYY too far.
Cheers
-- Modified on 12/18/2008 12:56:28 PM
How well reviewed was this provider? Pretty scary chit...
But their review system is worthless.
Even when I was ranked #1...there were issues.
I didn't have numerous reviews from one reviewer like many of the top ladies. But when they tried to tell me my last review was a fake..I had enough.
Just look at this week. They had a provider named Candy Kemp come back who was gone for over a year. On tbd you need according to their rules a review in 3 months to be on the top list. She came back after a year and she went right back on top.
If you manage a forum in this way....you don't even follow the rules. Make them up as you go along...what kind of example do you set? What kind of members participate? You are the company you keep. Never forget that.
-- Modified on 12/19/2008 8:14:09 AM
If she decides to visit Chicago, I'll reference this thread. Her actions are unacceptable!
Thanks for posting that information. I don't travel that way often but if I did I would have nothing to do with her. It should serve as a warning to hobbyists that sharing too much personal information or getting involved in the drama around some of these women can haunt you.
Yes, I agree WAYYYYY too far!! It goes beyond a lot more than a meet & greet, I took it as that was just the cherry on top of a too dramatic situation. While I could not imagine having the nerve to show up at a hobbyist's work place- he is NOT a totally innocent victim. I may be wrong, forgive me if I am- BUT I believe the hobbyist is this case crossed SEVERAL lines FIRST (he did make a public apoogy to that Whitney)So he can admit he was WRONG somewhere in the dramatic picture. He has stalker tendencies & he is the one who entered another's private life FIRST. He is known as a troublemaker, maybe a little karma going on here?
-- Modified on 12/18/2008 2:40:03 PM
"Posted by Sexybunni812, 12/18/2008 2:17:09 PM
Yes, I agree WAYYYYY too far!! It goes beyond a lot more than a meet & greet, I took it as that was just the cherry on top of a too dramatic situation. While I could not imagine having the nerve to show up at a hobbyist's work place- he is NOT a totally innocent victim. I may be wrong, forgive me if I am- BUT I believe the hobbyist is this case crossed SEVERAL lines FIRST (he did make a public apoogy to that Whitney)So he can admit he was WRONG somewhere in the dramatic picture. He has stalker tendencies & he is the one who entered another's private life FIRST. He is known as a troublemaker, maybe a little karma"
So because he is a trouble maker, it is somehow OK for this lady to show up at his work? Extort money from him? Or because you feel it is just Karma getting back at him, she should not be ostracized? No way, what she did goes WAY beyond acceptable behavior and no one should condone or minimize what she did because he is an ass. Blacklist him, but don't show up at his work or home!
As for the public apology - That is thrown in the trash the second Whitney admitted showing up at his work. If someone showed up at my work, obviously knew my name, probably knows where I live, I will do what ever they ask! period. To me this is no different then someone putting a gun to his head and telling him to admit he is DB Cooper or he'll be shot. No doubt he would admit he was DB Cooper.
That is not what I meant at all. I even stated I would not have the nerve to do such a thing. What I was trying to point out is there is a lot more to this then a flopped m&g. There seems to be quite the dramatic history involved-I did not read the post on the "forced" apology. That is just way too much for me! WTF?
his reported behavior of sending threatening emails, susposedly being seen outside of provider's residences. He is said to be known as a harassing stalker. Thus my reference to karma...
It appears that many of the players practiced RISKY Business. One is no better than another. But that does not mean that you commit a FELONY to pay it back.
Yes I believe in karma but I also wouldn't break the law in order to make myself feel better. I don't condone any of the behavior that I read in the posts on tbd.
This situation should never be forgotten. Like karma
SC
Ps
I wasn't maning to belittle you or your post. I wanted the bottom line to be about the Felony and not the karma.
Love
Sexy
This message is to publically apologize to Whitney and all who were negatively impacted by some of my actions intended to harm her party last weekend. Sometimes we do things that are not appropriate and we have to step up and take responsibility. I am doing that with this apology and assuring the rest of you that because of my actions the TnVolFan is leaving the hobby and will never again have a presence here.
THIS IS the most recent post FROM THE dummy.
SHE DID NOT EXTORT ANYONE.
This is the type of drama that should stay in TN>
They were both "inappropriate".
-- Modified on 12/18/2008 2:59:23 PM
When she went to his place of business and demanded money, that is extortion.
Read into the thread, I believe he was told he HAD to post this apology to her as part of the extortion. If she had his work info, whos to say that if he didnt succumb to her demands, she wouldnt out him at home or his place of work?
Is he innocent, I have NO idea, I dont care to be honest with you. But for ANYONE, provider or hobbiest, to enter into and cause harm to someones private life is WRONG and has no place in this hobby. But for a provider to DEMAND money from a hobbiest for this and threatening him if he didnt, THAT is extortion.
I wish I could post all the PM's I have received, from PROVIDERS, thanking me for outing her like this. Apparently she is known to do shit just like this, but no one ever speaks up about it. I dont know her, dont care to know her, dont care if this hurts her business, she went beyond an "eye for an eye" She took it to an "eye for a LIFE". WAYYYYYYY over the line, and others seem to agree with that statement.
Cheers
I know for a fact that apology is not what you think it is. She was standing over him while he did and told him he must do it before she left. And yes she did extort him and was even calling people and bragging about it afterwards.
I agree that he is not an innocent party here but her actions beyond crossed the line and to me extortion and blackmail is not acceptable in or outside of the business.
What arrogance, she bragged about forcing him to write an apology? The members of TBD approved of this tatic? This is pure insanity.
Well I for one do not approve her tactics at all. I am a member of TBD purely because that is the board that is used mainly for TN.
Some may approve but I DON'T.
I too am astounded that ANYONE would condone the actions of Whitney and her accomplice.
Appearing at a hobbyist's place of business, and threatening to out him if he does not cave into their monetary demands is unacceptable.
Their extortion is based on a wild guess, and not conclusive proof that the victim committed the transgression that they accuse him of.
To sexybunni, perhaps he did not get along with everyone, but karma does not apply here. Even you agreed this is going way to far.
To hotgreeneyedgirl, he did indeed post an apology on the other board. That was part two of the extortion. He was forced to agree to post that or be outed at his place of business, and his family at home. What would you do with your marriage and job at stake?
What they did was wrong, plain and simple.
I don't know any of the players in this soap opera but somehow I suspect the story is much more complex than most of us will ever know.
What she did sounds terrible. I wonder what else was done by one side or the other leading up to it.
Tennessee is a bit backwards.
xo Lisa
Rants-3rd party...Are just that.
This is how horrible rumors are started.
-- Modified on 12/18/2008 5:08:30 PM
This is not a rumor tuesday. This is factual.
Perhaps you should check out the facts or at least attempt to enlighten yourself before you post.
Let’s not carried away yet.
Blackmail and extortion are indeed crimes but on the facts you give in your post, no crime has been committed. There is nothing illegal about accusing someone of wrongfully causing you financial injury and demanding that they pay you for the injury caused. Lawyers do this every day on behalf of their clients. While showing up at the guy’s place of employment to make the charge is questionable form, doing it this way does not make the conduct illegal.
Is it bad form, and possibly a career killing move, for a TER provider to do this? Probably so. But if this guy caused her real financial injury, and this lady is serious about seeking legal redress for the injury caused by this guy, the real names of both parties will soon be a matter of public record.
And if he caused her serious injury, he has waived any right to privacy expected by the TER community.
Now clearly if she crossed the line from making a legitimate demand for compensation for a tort committed by this guy and instead threatened to expose a sexual relationship with her unless he paid, that would be another story. But, if this happened, you skipped it in your post. And in fact you say "who knows what she would have done" if he had not paid.
So unless and until you learn that she did indeed commit a felony as you keep saying, it is unfair and potentially defamatory for you to castigate her this way.
Anyone who would see her after this affair has to have their head checked. Anyone who gives her personal info after this affair gets what they deserve. Any provider who dares go to a hobbyists home or work forfeits her right to work. Let this be a warning to all.
There is when you threaten to do them harm, which is exactly what she did. She admitted to showing up at his place of work:
"Re: WHITNEY?...DID YOU GO TO TVF'S OFFICE? -- fireball
Posted by whitney , Sat, Dec 13, 2008, 08:16:05
went to the lobby ask for him, then went to his private office......YES we DID......"
If you read the whole thread you will see that they did some "investigating" in regards to an EMAIL that was sent. They traced it (via the headers) to a hotel - period (read the post by "abe normal"). They went to his office and asked for him by name. It's pretty clear no matter whether he did it or not he's gonna do what it takes to get this women out of his office and hopefully out of his life.
Are you serious about this being public record? Who the hell is gonna go to the police? Obviously he isn't as that would cause his family (at a minimum) to get involved!
The point of the original post is to warn people to stay away from this provider as she basically threatened to out a hobbiest for sending an email (which she can't prove he actually sent!). And the best you can say is "its bad form" - wow.
What I said was that the OP did not provide facts to support his charge of blackmail and extortion. Nor did he even say that she threatened to out the guy, or even that the guy was one of her clients.
I expressly said that if she went beyond demanding money for harm that he did to her that would be anther story. The reference to this being in "the public record" was tied to my statement that this would happen if she was serious about collecting -i.e., she would file a civil lawsuit.
You are bringing other facts into the story viz. that she threatened to do him harm. These facts, if true, would change my analysis. But the OP did not say that and I have not read the thread on the other board.
And before you join the virtual lynch squad that is rapidly forming, at least make sure you know what this guy did to cause the lady to take this drastic step. I do not agree with the posters who say it does not matter what he did.
I just think all the facts should be known before charges like this are hurled.
Really? wow.
So you haven't read the thread in question, yet you think it is OK to post saying that the "OP" didn't state his case. I think you need to read the thread on tbd before you make such judgments.
The original thread started with an apology stating he sent some emails to people (I doubt the veracity of the apology given the circumstances, but regardless). It goes on to say the Whitney SHOWED UP AT HIS PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT. How does sending an email equate to showing up at someones work place?
The fact is if a provider shows up at a guys work-place (unannounced & uninvited) the threat of being outed doesn't have to be stated, it is implicit in the act!
I don't know the the guy who apologized, certainly seems that he has some bad stuff against him. But there are ways of dealing with that stuff without showing up at a work-place.
So please don't ask me to focus, you need to take the time to do the research. If you don't think what this women did was wrong, then by all means book a couple of hours with her and have fun. But I for one will avoid her and I certainly hope everyone else does to
Since you made a serious and respectful post, you deserve a fair response. Let’s see if we can come to agreement as to where we agree or disagree, and why.
Start with the distinction between “outing” and blackmail/extortion. The first is anathema to the entire TER system but it is not a crime. Blackmail/extortion, by contrast, is a felony –you go to jail for this.
If the OP had simply said that the lady had outed the guy by showing up at his place of employment, I would have joined the chorus of posters thanking him for the info. My complaint with the OP was that he went beyond outing and accused the lady of blackmail/extortion. This part was a per se violation of TER posting rules. Even in the absence of such rules, my personal view is that no TER member should accuse another of a crime on the board. You are free to disagree with this view.
But I was particularly appalled when I read his post closely and realized he had not stated a factual basis for this accusation. To the contrary, he said she showed up demanding compensation for harm the guy had caused her. I posted and explained that this literally was not a crime and advised he need more facts before he could make this charge (the crime, not the outing).
Now I think you fairly took me to task for describing the outing as “bad form” –although I also said it was probably a TER career killer – and I will amend that now by saying it was odious. And while I also said in my second post that extreme facts might make it justifiable (maybe the guy was a stalker who kept showing up at her home), I am going to back off that as well and will agree with you what she did was totally unacceptable.
Addressing your specific comments
“So you haven't read the thread in question, yet you think it is OK to post saying that the "OP" didn't state his case. I think you need to read the thread on tbd before you make such judgments.”
If my purpose was to chide the OP for accusing her of outing, I agree with you 100%. But my complaint was the he accused her of a crime and my view is that is never proper on the board and certainly not proper unless you have personal knowledge of fadts to support your view.
“The fact is if a provider shows up at a guys work-place (unannounced & uninvited) the threat of being outed doesn't have to be stated, it is implicit in the act! I don't know the the guy who apologized, certainly seems that he has some bad stuff against him. But there are ways of dealing with that stuff without showing up at a work-place.” We are in agreement on this point.
“So please don't ask me to focus, you need to take the time to do the research. If you don't think what this women did was wrong, then by all means book a couple of hours with her and have fun.” We are in agreement -the outing was wrong but as far as we know to date, it was not criminal.
Perhaps your knowledge of the legal system is a bit more advanced then mine, but it certainly seems like she extorted him.
"Extort: to obtain from a person by force, intimidation, or undue or illegal power : wring ; also : to gain especially by ingenuity or compelling argument"
The fact that she showed up at his work place indicates that she has information which he would like kept private. Whether implicit or explicit she indicated his failure to comply with her demands would result in this information being made "public" (either to his employer or wife, or both). As such she intimidated him to comply with her demands.
-that she demanded compensation for prior economic harm he had done to her by disrupting her M & G - and substituting different facts-viz., that she impliedly thrreatened to out him unless he gave her money.
We have no disagreement on the second set of facts. But demanding money for harm he has done for her even if by "ingenuity or compelling argument" or intimidation is not a crime. It would be a crime only if she used force or the threat of force
. But otherwise it is really nothing more than a settlement tactic prior to filing suit.
"The elements of extortion are that the defendant, 1) with the intent to unlawfully extort property, 2) knowingly send or deliver "a threat to" reveal incriminating or disreputable information about the victim (i.e., blackmail), or to physically, emotionally, or economically injure the victim, or to harm his property."
If she demanded compensation for an injury he did to her,
the first element is missing bc it is not illegal to make such a demand.
She admits to seeking out this guy, going to his place of employment, and demanding that he cover the costs for the party. Not a party he caused to be canceled, but one that she had and is demanding money as punishment for sending emails.
Marikod, you know as well as I that the threat of exposure can be implied by the totality of the facts and circumstances and does not have to be explicitly stated. There has to be intent, but that is definitely demonstrated by the affirmative acts of going to the office, demanding that he return to the office for the confrontation, and then compelling him to give her $2000.00 (only $1,200.00 ultimately paid). I cannot believe that you continue to extend this argument in the face of her confession above.
Compounding everything is the admission that she attacked two "innocent" people before she settled on him. She's a disgrace. And what she did was criminal, even if, in all practicality, nothing is ever done about it.
Apparently the only thing this guy did to her was (she believed) send emails discouraging people from attending her party. She concluded that low turn out was his fault and confronted him at his office. She disclaims coupling the money demand with a threat but Incredibly demanded that he quit the hobby.
She now is trying to justify her actions by claiming he had a history of abuse of other providers as though she is some kind of provider police.
Did she commit extortion? Well you still cannot tell for sure from her confused statement of the facts since it is unclear what she would have done if he had held his ground. And you really need his side of the story to make this judgment. But I would not quarrel with someone who concluded this seems implied.
But most of the posters still seem to confuse the point I was making. I was never defending her (since I did not know any of the facts but what the Op said) and would not defend outing even on those facts, but I still feel it is irresponsible to accuse someone of a crime on the board under any circumstances unless you have personal knowledge. Given the knowledge of the OP which based on the hearsay in the threads he read, he still clearly need more facts to make the charge.
That he may have been right as the facts ultimately play out does not make his initial accusation responsible.
Thanks for the heads up. I do not frequent the other board so I appreciate you bringing the attention over to TER about this incident. I'd sure be referencing this thread if I ever see her set foot in the New England area.
I looked for a link but couldn't find one. Is it verboten? -e
That's a pretty screwed up situation. I could think of lots of ways of resolving this problem without going to someone's place of work, as she admitted in a later post.
In the big scheme of things, we're talking about a party. DNS, blacklist, and what other avenues you want to use, but going to the extreme of showing up at someone's place of work and shaking them down, is just wrong, and we don't need that kind of shit in the hobby, or anywhere else.
Remember, this is supposed to be fun, and relieve stress, not cause it.
-- Modified on 12/19/2008 3:57:04 PM
-- Modified on 12/19/2008 3:57:49 PM
And his own hands are pretty dirty also from what I can tell...
They both have issues.
xoM
His hands are VERY dirty, this guy is dangerous. He sent a letter that arrived today at the HOME of another hobbiest who has posted NOTHING about this! The hobbiest wife opened the letter!!! OMG!!! Everyone is ready to rip up the provider but this HOBBIEST is DANGEROUS! Prior to this he showed up at another providers private residence where she lives with her Children and carried on a conversation with a child at the door of her home! Read everything not just the posts about the lady. That information was posted by the lady whose home he showed up at. This guy has been dirty a VERY long time. The word staler comes to mind....
Forget about Whitney's tits and ass. Think about the BIG picture.
On bigdoggie you all run a circus. I mean how many reviews did you write on Whitney?
You(your forum) allow Angela love to return after being banned for outing people. She jumped right in the middle for some HIGH School fun, didn't she?
I have read the threads and have been interested in how everyone is handling themselves. Even you.
The bottom line seems to me that the majority of you are too high of a risk. You give Risk Management new meaning.
As always it seems you(not you personally) reap what you sow.
I have a feeling this is the beginning of the end for tbd. They celebrate outings and extortions with gusto in some weird backwoods way. Either tbd needs to come clean or continue to be Risky Bitchness.
Funny that you should mention stalker. Remember Perri, tbd's celebrated beauty from North Carolina that stalked me for 4 years? She comes over here to stalk me now. But ter support catches her and handles the problem PROFESSIONALLY.
Did you think I just disappeared from tbd?
answer this.
If I have problems with a gentleman should I take his personal information and go to his work and demand $$$ from him? It comes down to the allmighty $ and what some will do to get it.
It seems to me that most on Bigdoggie would do just what Whitney did. and that makes it easy for the rest of us. If we want to know the names of Risky providers and hobbiests..just look at Bigdoggie. If you want a review forum look to ter. If you want to play games go to Bigdoggie. If you want to discuss adult topics come to ter.
Thanks for the memories
Sexy Carolina
The point is that what Whitney did was inexcusable, period.
I don't think anyone here is defending the guy in question. Doing what the provider did was absolutely beyond a doubt unacceptable and she should be dishonorably discharged from service.
If this guy has done the things you state, then first it is not Whitneys place to perform justice. Also if he is a stalking or shows up at peoples homes, then they have restraining orders for that. I find it hard to fathom that he could explain why he got a RO to his wife. As such it performs the job that Whitney was trying to do, without (IMHO) crossing the line.
There is also a difference in what is being discussed here. Very clearly Whitney corroborates what she did in the original thread. This isn't a case where a hobbiest is saying a lady showed up at his work but provides no proof. Your statements stand alone, there is no corroboration of the statements.
The basic gist is this, if he did what you claim (again no proof) then the people he did it to should have dealt with it. Whitney went to him and demanded he apologize for sending an email and to give him money. Failure to do so would result in being outed. She can not claim she did it for "all the others he harmed"
supporting her. The whole "two wrongs" approach is bullshit.
We don't know that he wronged her ... fuck, there are posts that she first approached at least one other guy claiming she KNEW it was him and threatening him. So no, there is no evidence that he did this ... but we do know that her and her WK dickhead showed up at place of employment and extorted money and threatened him, his family and his employment. She bragged about it!
Fuck. How the hell can people still be supporting her?
I don't post a lot on the boards (except Atlanta). But I read them a lot. And I travel a lot for work. I'm with the guy above who stated he's going to watch for her visiting his area and warn people about her. I think everyone should do that. If I happen to be reading a board that she posts on ... yeah, I'm referencing this thread and the one from the other board. People (both hobbyist and providers alike) should be warned.
Sorry, but that fucking nutjob is unsafe and anyone associating with her is crazy. To the dude she fucked ... my sympathies guy. I wish there was something you could do that wouldn't endanger your family and/or your employment.
As always, be safe and have fun
I wouldn't want to run the risk of seeing her.
SC
THANKS FOR THE POST AND CHEERS TO YOUR RESPONSE TO SOME THAT WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE THAT THERE MAY BE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WOULD MAKE THIS BEHAVIOR ACCEPTABLE. QUETION? WHAT IS THE OTHER BOARD. THANKS ANS HAPPY HOLIDAYS
I don't understand how anyone can defend this woman or her actions. The arguments I have heard are ridiculous.
There sure seems to be more then one moral compass out of whack here