As far back as 1592, it was common practice for the Ottoman Turks, in their invasions of the Balkans, to kill entire villages and rape and enslave young female survivors. A (relatively) fortunate few ended up in the harems, where they at least had regular meals and a (slim) chance to take their destinies into their own hands, but most were resold throughout the Middle and Far East.
This problem is not just restricted to the Balkans. Involuntary sexual servitude, in some form or another, has been practiced by every culture on earth, in every time period.
try this one on for size...
That's why we have to promise each other that we will out any place where we think that women are providing services against their will. We must spread the word and turn them in or get them to fail for lack of business-
This hobby is not worth one woman in bondage (unless she likes that).
Seriously- it ought to be like "M" the movie where the german underworld fingers the child killer to aid the cops, so outraged are they over his crime.
White slavers are scum- especially so when ladies turn to this business on thweir own. Its why I only see indies.
All the Russian houses and most of the Korea Town flats are slave dens. Bad news.
my point exactly
With an indie you have some idea the lady is supporting herself.
The old moral issue involving foreign-born providers. The general feeling is that most of them are slaves. The usual solutions put forth are to avoid these women and "out" them when we have proof that they are being held in bondage, or working off a debt, etc. Then we are encouraged to patronize American-born providers, all the more so when we can verify that they don't have a pimp.
First of all, how do you know these women are slaves, outside of the stereotype? Do they tell you? Yeah, if a girl cries when she undresses and tells you she was tricked or kidnapped and forced into prostitution by the Russian/Korean/Chinese/Mexican Mafia and she wants to go home, maybe you ought to leave and call the police. Outside of an obvious situation like that, how do you know? And if she's free to come and go, but is paying off a debt, are you helping her by not seeing her and/or posting the fact on the Internet?
There are also a good many foreign-born providers who got into it for all the "legitimate" reasons we might accept from an American woman. No English or education and stuck in a dead-end job at a restaurant. Down on her luck or between jobs, divorced, single mom, just plain likes it, etc. There are even plenty who come here specifically to work temporarily as prostitutes. They will make a hell of a lot more here than they will in their own countries and no one at home will ever find out. Don't believe everything you see in the media or hear on the lips of self-serving, sanctimonious cops, activists or "community leaders."
How about American women? And what the hell is an "indie," really? How do you know she doesn't have a pimp, or hasn't been coerced in some fashion? Think she's gonna tell you? What if she's doing it because she owes the bank a huge amount of money? Is Mastercard her pimp? Maybe she's a drug addict, mentally ill or has low self-esteem, etc. What about that? There are all kinds of slavery.
Speaking of which, how many of us are willing to find out about the clothes we wear, products we buy, hotels we stay at, etc., and then boycott and "out" those that don't meet our standards of employee treatment? It's not a bad thing to be concerned about our fellow man (and woman), but we need to think about it a little more before coming out with pat answers. There's more under the surface than you might think.
In total agreement. We are all slaves to something. Me, right now, this hobby.
Most AMP ladies are there voluntarily. I've known and am fortunate to know several Eastern European ladies that were working this gig because it fit with what they liked to do... have a lot of sex and have a lot of money.
I also have known women in desparate living situations that P4P as a way to generate quick cash. I suspect I've been to a Russian slaver's den as well...
My experience has been that I have a better time when the lady I'm with is playing with my by choice rather than circumstance.
-- Modified on 1/3/2003 9:51:54 AM
Good on you straight man!
I just think we all ought to make your philosophy a watch word- not to be narcs, but to intervene if we think ladies are being used against their will.
Many of the Korean ladies have worked in "588" houses in Korea and like their Russian sisters, know exactly what they're getting into when coming here. Sometimes with the Koreans, they're getting work in hostess bars, until they can't handle the drinking and move to brothel work.
Certainly some slavery goes on in some of the ethnic houses, but I'd call it more the exception than the rule.
some of the houses in London that have all eastern European women. Some are outrageously cheap for overnighters.
What about some of the AMP's or asian escorts? I'm sure there are more than a few who are doing this against their will. It's very sad.
here's the related story in case you didn't click on it. I had no idea things were this bad.
"With no passport and little idea where she was, Olga was raped, beaten into submission and humiliated until she no longer had the will to challenge her horrible fate.
“Meti made me clean the toilet with my tongue. It was horrible and dirty. I think they did it because I was the newest girl,” Olga said of her ethnic Albanian owner. “He made me lick another girl’s … you know, down there. And then he laughed.”
even in the US the eastern europeans/asians are commonly doing it because they have no other means of survival or were basically forced into it....
I have met a few women of both ethinicities who are like this....
I only see American women in the US who are definitely independent...
that's it.
A
Well, I have just finished reading the whole series of that link and I have to say, I am so thankful for living in America. Although we have our problems with LE and public opinion and some asshole pimps out there, it is not nearly as extreme as what some of those women are going through and that is definately the wrong way of going about escorting. They might as well as just rape any girl walking on the street..wait they already do that over there. (Ethnic cleansing I believe they called it)
I feel sad after reading those links, not because I feel bad for the kind of work they do but because those women didn't get to choose what they wanted to do with their bodies. It's the same as being raped and violated.
How do you know if somebody of Asian descent is not an American citizen?
How do you know that somebody calling themselves an independent are "definitely independent"?
This guy as well as the "slavery" scenario is unfortunatly typical through out most of eastern Europe from Latvia down through Belarus, Azerbijan etc.. The girls are "smuggled" into Westen Europe and of all places Isreal. The United Nations has a commission "studying" the problem. The commission has written about the situation in great detail but it is underfunded, understaffed and politically muted. These countries also have the most rapid increase in HIV cases.
The most common reason given is that most of the woman had some degree of relative finacial security under the former political structure. With the emergence of the western economies in most of these places the areas have become known as the wild wild east. Even with the over supply of providers reluctant or otherwise the ability to earn a weeks wages in one night is compelling to most people including the law enforcement agencies in the area.
Go to:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=eastern+european+sex+workers
for more info.
but it seems like as soon as a business model gets perfected in the criminal realm, like the drug traffic business before this, arms trading, money laundering... these sick forms of human domination show up on our doorstep. We already have a steady flow of indentured asian sweatshop labor. Nobody has figured it out. INS pulls a dinky bust here and there but the game keeps on rolling. You have to wonder how long it will take before one of these wise guys figures out how to transplant his enterprise to the American midwest
As far back as 1592, it was common practice for the Ottoman Turks, in their invasions of the Balkans, to kill entire villages and rape and enslave young female survivors. A (relatively) fortunate few ended up in the harems, where they at least had regular meals and a (slim) chance to take their destinies into their own hands, but most were resold throughout the Middle and Far East.
This problem is not just restricted to the Balkans. Involuntary sexual servitude, in some form or another, has been practiced by every culture on earth, in every time period.
And even older still, the legendary "Rape of the Sabine Women" as told by Livy in 1st Century B.C.E., when Rome was still a city state.