I see it, but I didn't realize there was science to back it up.

They shake your hand like they're greeting the Queen of England - you almost expect a courtsey to follow - then they wince when you give it a good squeeze and won't make eye contact when they speak afterwards, like you'e instantly sent them into Beta mode with a proper hand shake.

Guys can't even change the oil in their own fucking cars anymore. You comment a nice set of tits and they use words like "inappropriate" while turning red in the face. Their idea of a power tool is an I-Pad. They'd sooner sue you then take a dispute out to the parking lot. They gossip, and comment on a woman's shoes instead of her ass, and drink something called "Mikes Hard Lemonade" - which was apparently invented for these vaginalized hybrid men who can't handle a real fucking beer.

I don't where they came from, but they're nothing like the men who raised me. And many will say it's all bravado; machismo; arrogance, whatever. But it is - or WAS - in a man's nature to be aggressive, assertive, bold, and have a fighting spirit. Take all that away and what's left?      

Fuck androgen.  
Throw a few shots of whiskey down the hatch, no chaser, slap a broad on the ass and punch her boyfriend in the mouth when he protests. That is how you raise testosterone levels.


Idiot disclaimer; Don't listen to LuckyIrishPrick, he's a bad man who wants to get you into trouble. Stick to wearing snuggies, sipping wine coolers and watching Desperate Housewives reruns.

Everything they do, they learned from someone else instead of taking risks on their own.

 They were taught to listen to women .
Fine , listening is good if she's not crazy, but don't get so emotionally caught up in your woman's drama she thinks you are one of the girls.

In her full time  man she is looking for a leader, not a follower.
If she tells you  different, she thinks she is talking to one of the girls.

Most beta males have no  need for androgen.
They would be functional if they stopped swimming in estrogen.

This is my first attempt on starting thread. Anyway, I am an avid bodybuilder, biochemistry professor, and hobbyist and ran across an interesting article on the drop in male testosterone levels  (about 22%) over the last twenty or so years (see attached article).  It seems to me that this trend may be associated with the increase in "mangina' postings on this forum (lol).  Also, it does not bode well for the ladies that are providers.  If this trend (decrease in testosterone) continues there will not be any "real men" to continue the hobby in the future. My question to the long-term providers is: have you observed any decrease in the masculinity of men over the years?  To the guys: have any of you thought of androgen therapy?  Thoughts on this topic are appreciated.

The men who raised me, my Dad and uncles, had just won WWII five years earlier.  They were extremely competent in more ways than I could name, confident, self-assured, and masculine without being macho- except for one uncle who was too ruggedly handsome for his own good.  LOL.

I'm sure it was a combination of things and probably came from their training, experiences in combat, working as teams, and of course, winning and being lucky enough to live and tell the tale.

But one thing's for sure, they approached life differently than today's men and never spent one minute worrying about body washes, hair products, or what Oprah thinks- I mean feels.

And these aren't just fond memories, my Dad is 90 and still climbing up ladders and getting under cars to fix things.  Solving problems for themselves is what men used to do.  I guess after you've survived torpedos and kamikaze attacks, you really don't need Angie's List.

Gee! This topic has got me by the balls - oops, sorry - by the genitalia. gf60

But I have not met any men like this and wonder where they are.  I have two kids who could kick your ass.  Easily. But they will not need to.  They will hold my coat while I do it.
LOL!  Welcome back, dude!

For example, lets take a look back at the U.S. history: the sectors of economy. Lets start off around 1940-50, we were in the secondary sector (manufactures & industrial times). This is when men were real men, they physically had to work. From 1960-80, we became tertiary sectors (service industry--financial advisory, brokers, other jobs that serves the public instead of making a product). Men were just talking, writing papers, preparing power point slides, anything that is not physical to make a living. The type of occupation prepared men to be feminized. Now, 1990-2010, we are in the quaternary sector, mainly focusing on research and information technology jobs. These jobs use computers, technology, research, and so forth. Men in these jobs say, "Hi Bob, hows the nano-tech progressing? Great! Send me the latest simulations. Fantastic!".

Look around you, ask yourself what type of occupation you hold. The type of job a man does may feminize him--and in the long term, may decrease his testosterone level. For example, my uncle is a private contractor, and he physically has to work, I doubt he has low testosterone. On the other hand, I have a metro-sexual friend working as a financial consultant at the bank and people think he gays because the way he talks, but he bangs chicks.

Its good to hear that you hold a prestige's job and work out, hell, all men need to work out to feel like a man. My occupation is dominated by women, but I am not feminized because of my upbringing and my environment. Anyways, sorry about that college shit up there, but it is what it is. I just hope we don't turn into aliens when we hit that 9 sector.

I've got two boys, 33 and 30.  Both work in different parts of the media industry and play rock guitar.  They also both do martial arts at different levels.  They live in a very "metro" area.  But you would not want to fuck with either of them.  The 30 y/o especially is built like an NFL quarterback, is schooled in a Russian military martial arts discipline and will kick virtually anybody's ass.  He will kick his big brother's ass...after his big brother kicks yours.  No bull.

but then that's my answer to every ill there is.

First lets make a simple disclaimer. NERI who published the study is a for profit research mill. No offense but any of you with half a brain know that numbers can be twisted when you control the data collection sets. Secondly the data points were all derived from men in one geographic location, and socio-economic standards were not used. The sample set of only 1500 men, over a 17 year period with less than a 50% follow rate is pathetic. Finally the men were all between the age of 45 and 79 years of age. Its a fact that T serum levels in men start falling at age 40.

Could and can T serum levels fall as a result of lifestyle, environmental and dietary changes? Well of course they could and it should be expected. Do I have any faith that the "general" population of men, at all ages are walking around with 22% less T serum than 18 years ago, nope.

The OP posted a great question. In reply I would have to say that in my opinion I have noticed no drop in the performance or masculinity in the men I know.

I would say that after reading Ms Reagan's response the whole issue can be put to bed. When I want information about something I don't need to look up any kind of research think tank bull shit - I go to the people who are involved with what I need to know. I appreciate statistics but with a whole lot of insight as well - not a common combination but sometimes it happens. gf60

Why do so many men cling to an idea of what they perceive as being a “real man”. And, why do they desperately hold on to a conviction that any man who does not fit this expectation is, somehow, less of a “real man”.

Where I grew up, men considered themselves “real men”. And, by any conventional definition, they were. They believed they were the king of their castles (the Bible says so---and who can argue with the Bible, eh?). Men had a predetermined role. Women had a predetermined role. They espoused the idea that women were, very literally, put_on_this_earth to serve “real men”; in whatever way men saw fit.

And, for some of these real men, should any woman get uppity enough to go against this unarguable decree of nature, a “real man” had every right to kick the crap out of her to put_her_back_in_her_right_place. (for her own good, of course)

Thankfully, these days many men find this concept of masculinity not only antiquated, but just plain silly, ridiculous, and idiotic. And, they do not judge their own masculinity by conventional stereotypes of what makes a man a “real” man.  (what the “real man” crowd calls pussies. And MANGINAS?...lol…)

As far as this study? The whole thing strikes me as bit of clap-trap. But if, indeed, there is some larger trend in T levels dropping which, in turn, is actually reducing the overall number of men walking around dragging their masculine he-man knuckles on the ground declaring what “real men” they are?

Amen and fucking hallelujah

Long time ago i have read one article can't find it at the moment but it claims that Y chromosome will disappear in 1 mln. year. Human kind will mutate and there will be one gender )) Sounds scary - here talks also about Y disappearance

http://www.nothingbutinteresting.com/2009/03/scientific-end-of-men-y-chromosome-is.html

Start fucking more and all your testastrone problems will vanish overninght.

What's pathetic is an alias making comments about somebody else's dick.  Homo-erotic much?

If I'd read someone else posting that, I might have flamed them, too.
But you're still a pussy.

I question the validity of the study and it's conclusion.  In America, at least, masculinity seems alive and well. I am amazed at the proliferation of MMA fighters and other combat sport athletes. Those industries are flourishing with participants, not just fans. Look also at our military. The training is more rigorous and demanding than it's ever been.  I don't think this represents a microcozm of society either. People in general seem bigger, stronger, and more athletic than in the past.  Just food for thought.  

But they will be using that coat as a tourniquet.

This is not the first study which observed a decrease in male testosterone levels over the last twenty years.  There are dozens of other research articles, published in peer-reviewed journals that support the same finding and conclusions. Furthermore, the studies have been conducted on male populations in the US and many other countries.  Just google:  "reduction in male testosterone levels".  The question in the scientific and medical communities is not whether a reduction exists, but rather the cause of the reduced testosterone levels.

I was going to take this is more of a socio-political direction (have quite a rant about Feminazis) but if we're trying to stick to the more biochemical aspect, I'll try to behave.

Reasons for lowered T-levels in men can likely be linked to lifestyle choices.  I'm not going to spend a ton of time digging up articles and making footnotes but from my recollection of various things I've seen over the years:

Diet: Eating soy products has been shown to lower testosterone (mimics estrogen in the body and increases sex hormone binding globulin).  How many fad diets and idiot docs out there push soy as some sort of healthy miracle food?  We're also supposed to eat low fat diets... especially focus on eliminating saturated fats (animal fat).  Well, guess what?  Low fat diets also reduce testosterone and eating red meat helps increase it.  Ever wonder why vegans/vegetarians don't often show up for bodybuilding competitions and tend to be either underweight, scrawny twigs or obese?  Because eating animal protein increases testosterone and they deprive themselves of it.  Low T tends to make people lethargic and it's hard to pump iron or simply get out and walk if all you want to do is sit on the couch and knit hemp sweaters while singing kumbaya to your bonzai tree.  So a so-called healthy diet nowadays - low overall fat, as close to zero saturated fat as possible, skip the red meat, limit the white meat, add soy - is a heck of a good way to reduce T.

Alcohol:  Small doses of alcohol increase testosterone but overindulging (5+ drinks), especially prolonged overindulging, leads to a reduction in blood T by almost half.  

Smoking: Small amounts of smoking reduce blood T, prolonged smoking damages the Leydig cells (responsible for making T in the testes).  We've all seen pics of smoker's lungs and understand how smoking kills the alveoli that are responsible for the uptake of oxygen and dispersal of toxic blood gases.  Well, smoking does the same thing to the cells in your balls that produce T.

Stress:  Stress produces a host of hormones that do a body damage.  Cortisol is the main one to be aware of.  Increased cortisol (and other associated glucocorticoids) negatively affects glucose metabolism and insulin release (diabetes/hypoglycemia anyone?), blood pressure regulation (but let's take 5 different  prescription meds to sort it out even if they kill us in the process), immune function (funny how stressed out people get sick more often), and the inflammatory response (from arthritis to muscle aches).  Cortisol and T have a nearly direct inverse relationship...  When one is up, the other is down almost an identical amount.

Sleep:  T is released during non-REM sleep.  Drinking, letting yourself get over-tired and crashing, having a TV on or flickering lights/sounds keeps us out of the first 3 stages of sleep and then we eventually fall almost directly into REM sleep.  Skipping those first three phases severely limits the amount of T that can be released into the bloodstream.

Basically, if you're concerned about your T levels, try looking at your lifestyle choices and maybe make some adjustments.


-- Modified on 8/19/2011 10:48:41 AM

EC,

Great reply showing far more patience than I have. As an alternative, almost every city has a Testosterone mill disguised as a mens health center every 2 square miles. Its a huge business. Skip the stress, diet and other positive changes in your life and utilize modern lazy chemistry. In Phoenix we even have a place that is a women's health and diet center M-W-F and a mens center on Tuesday and Thursday. Bring cash and everyone gets a shot.