In particular, those bad boys who are violent people.

Well, those are two different questions.

Bad boys can be hot... usually not shy, often better know what they want and how they like it... yeah, nice.

As to those who are attracted to violent men,
it is energetic and psychological.  It is not always that the woman is wanting the MAN, so much as she is filling a hole that needs to be healed internally - hence, repetitive abusive relationships.  Add to that the highs and endorphins that she gets from the abusive relationship (love-hate-love-hate)...

Many abusers are skilled at mental conditioning.  It just takes one abuser in a ladies life to set a pattern.

Well  I  personally  have never been attracted to  the  bad  violent men, but I  do  tend  to  wonder  why. But  the  same  question  can  be applied  to  both  sexes  why  is  it  that  we  do  not  want  the  smart funny, kind hearted  that are  out  there everywhere. Well a man is attracted  to  the young skinny big breasted  woman, because they want  what  they feel they cannot  have. Woman want  to  feel  need  and  some  that are  insecure  need  the  so-called  bad  boy  so  they  can  feel  like they are  the  one  to  tame  the  beast.
 Why  ask  why,,  it  is  just  because  they  are. You cannot  make  someone  like  you or  change  who they  like. just  understand  if  you are  going  for a  type  that  just  makes  you  miserable  then  maybe  you are  the  one  that needs  to  change  your  type.

Happened to my daughter.  They split, but it  took years.  

She did not grow up in a violent household:  I never hit her, her mother never hit her, and I never hit her mother.  She seems 'better" now and is in a relationship with a man who clearly cares about her.  It left me feeling badly about myself for years:  what did I do (not do) that would cause her to pick and stay with a jerk like her first husband.

I am assuming you are referring to the hoodlum types.  They walk with a certain swagger with a smirk that puts fear into normal folks.  There is an air of coolness and excitement associated with these guys.  These are guys who are bucking the system.  
El diablo

Women are conflicted on a very basic level, and while it drives men crazy, it’s not really their fault.  From a biological/evolutionary standpoint, they are charged with the highest responsibility possible- assuring the continuation of our species.  While they are very well equipped to handle this role if left alone, social and cultural mores really complicate the process.    

The conflict is simple enough, really- from a reproductive standpoint they are torn between a mate that represents the best genetic health and will contribute survival characteristics to their children, versus the mate that will stick around long enough to help her raise the baby to the point of independence, which in humans is, regrettably, a very long time.

In this context, the wild “bad boy” represents risk-taking, vitality and strength- survival characteristics from our genetic past, if not our current world.  Seeking adventure and flirting with danger for fun is exactly the thing you’re looking for if your genetic history includes being chased around by hungry wolves or large cats.  

So while these personality characteristics are sought out by females as representing genetic health and survival, history has shown they tend to make bad fathers, hence the conflict.  They don’t always come home, or have a strong enough couple-bond to either the mother or the baby to raise it. So like all of us, their strength also defines their weakness.  

On the other hand, the more stable male that will stick with the mother and raise the kids may not have the strongest survival characteristics, at least in the world that shaped our genetic heritage.    

A British study showed that women are continuously resolving this conflict on an unconscious level by being attracted to the “bad boy” type of male while ovulating (and most likely to conceive), and the stable type during the rest of her menstrual cycle.  The study also found married women were more likely to stray during ovulation and you can guess which type of man they sought.

So it’s not your imagination- women ARE attracted to bad boys, whether they’re gladiators, knights or football players.  These guys have been making women squirm in their seats for centuries.  And yes, they have been getting the girls because they represent strength, and risk-taking.  But when it comes time for marriage and raising a family, most women seek the stable type of male personality.  

Of course, the power of sexual attraction is strong and many women make the mistake of marrying (or getting pregnant by) the “bad boy,” only to find themselves raising their child alone when the inevitable happens- the bad boy takes off in search of his next big adventure, finding the constraints of commitment just a little too limiting for his liking.  

This isn’t exactly a new situation and nearly every society has invented the institution of marriage to resolve this fundamental problem and ensure its own preservation.  After all, what’s the benefit to the social group of rowing your long boat all the way to Britain to rape and plunder if you decide you don’t want to return home after sampling the local beauties?  

Whether watching his sails disappear over the horizon, or the tail lights of his pick-up truck as he pulls out of your driveway, they are only variations on an age-old theme.  Unfortunately, as the institution of marriage breaks down in America and many other modern societies, more and more women are forced to raise families on their own- personal freedoms having now trumped commitment as the most important thing.

So don’t blame yourself if you’re a nice guy and seem destined to pay the bills while the stud gets the girls.  It’s all in the genes and it’s been that way for thousands of years.  Since you’re never going to change it in your lifetime, just be thankful you found TER.


-- Modified on 3/25/2004 11:20:34 AM

As every teen knows instincivly in their love of horror movie .. the feelings of fear and intense love are so similar that some people have them mixed and don't know how to tell the difference.  Both give a flutter in the belly, flushed face, beating heart,  racing pulse, and a "high" of fight of flight hormones (yes, I cants spell adrenelene... ) It is a difficult thing to learn to recognize that love is a much more gentle peaceful feeling. -defininiton includes when one is genuinly interested in your growth and expantion as a human being- I for one (yes, I know providers are not supposed to adimt to having BF;s but I proudly do.. ) have a VERY gentle man in my life . In 6 years he has never once even yelled at me, called me any name other than gigglebug or babydoll. He is a computer game playing geek that is sort of overweight,, balding, hair on his back and fucking perfect in every way!  But I will admit that in my younger years, I too had the "bad boy" issues.(yes, I hear you all saying, well how can he "let" you work.. but NO ONE EVER OWNS ME... and true love is not an issue of possesion but of passion and compassion
Will NEVER go  back, Love not fear!


-- Modified on 3/25/2004 3:14:25 PM

*

First, I'm glad you defined the 'bad boys' as being anything from gladiators to football players, as 'bad' is not necessarily really 'bad' - just one that includes 'action'.
(I think it's a whole different topic when we define 'bad' as the kind of guy who beats up on the girl, cheats, drinks, etc.)

I'm glad also that you pointed out some characteristics:
"In this context, the wild “bad boy” represents risk-taking, vitality and strength- survival characteristics from our genetic past, if not our current world.  Seeking adventure..."

In todays world, the everyday lives of men and women are almost exactly the same: we both get up, deal with the traffic, go to work (deal with some of the exact same work scenarios), drive home and have the same duties to do when we get home and the cycle begins again. The distinction between men and women is so much less.
I read a book years ago that pointed out some things from the Wild West Days and how the interaction between men and women was the way it was then, and how that has seriously diminished in today's world. For one thing, the ratio of men to women was much greater than today and that in itself meant that men had to stake their claims on a woman, home and family and there was much to protect for and against. It was easy for a man to be a hero in his wife and children's eyes then because he was pretty much facing foes and challenges all the time and for her.
(and I always say, men can still be perceived as a hero in her eyes - just fix something and watch her melt! Works for me!)

Going back to the characteristics and 'action', which I want to portray as 'passion'. Say for example the Mafia movies, or gang types. It's always said that those who love passionately, hate passionately. The one reason that ladies have put up with the jealous types is because (to them)it shows the guys care, that it matters to them, and makes them feel special to see how much they are affected. Only later do they see it isn't necessarily about 'caring', or 'loving' but about hangups - theirs! Those same men, throw the remote down on the couch, don't grab the beer, but instead, grab their women in their arms right in the middle of her doing the dishes, and dash off to the bedroom, toss her like a sack-o-taters down on the bed, and yank her panties down to enjoy her! Yeah, that unleashed passion - that 'action' man is what gets to us all. That kind of man whose actions say you are 'taken', and 'off limits' because he has staked his claim makes one feel chosen,wanted, and secure.
However, as you pointed out, the same man is not likely to have the 'stay around-ness' character that is also needed, and he dashes off to his next adventure, leaving her crying, and longing for his return..
I don't read romance novels, but my one good friend is really into them and the reason they sell is because of all the passion!
When I got my first 10 review, I had received some PM's asking, so what made it a 10 for you - what did he do that worked?
Well, he just seemed to 'know' how to play it with me, tossed me on the bed and just had his way! Jumped right into a role play (that I happen to enjoy often) and I was taken right in with his passion.
That, I think is the key. The action, the passion, the heroism (perceived), strength and vitality, but foremost is passion.

While it is true that SOME guys are intimidated by smart ladies, others seek them out.  Frankly, in real life, I have never had a 2nd date with someone whom I didn't find interesting emotionally and intellectualy.

I think you just became my new hero.

Love not fear...God bless you, Erin.

sexual attraction.  Things have just changed too fast in the last hundred years especially.  We now live in a world where a more intellectual type of guy is the better provider- not a "nerd" necessarily, but someone who has the ability to succeed in an white collar/business environment.

Physical strength and daring are no longer a requirement for modern living, yet we're still attracted to them.  To compensate for the blandness and safety of modern existence, we create sports and other extreme activities.  They serve the same purpose, but they are contrived and manufactured risk, merely re-enactments of the risk-taking inherent in our history.  They may sometimes be life-threatening, but they are pursued for the thrill of the experience, not to obtain food from an uncooperative bison or to flee a pursuing bear.

As a result, modern woman is just as out of her element as modern man.  She still wants to be "claimed" as you said, and secretly gets excited at the proposition of a galant knight sweeping her off her feet and taking her away as his bride (kicking and screaming optional).  While it's not PC to even discuss this subject anymore, women are as genetically predisposed to be "taken" as men are to win them and sweep them away.  

The problem in modern, civilized life is obvious, however, as laws seeking to modify behavior and ensure safety come up against this ancient instinct.  Of course, in most of us, this is just takes the form of  harmless flirting with a little sexual tension thrown in for good measure.  He invites her to watch his football game, she screams and cheers as he makes a good catch, and then gives his big, sweaty body a hug after the game- all very primal, but  satisfying very basic needs.

Sadly, these urges are not controlled and a little too close to the surface in some men, and you end up with rapists and stalkers.  But let's face it, until fairly modern times (genetically speaking) most men were rapists and stalkers.  So it's a delicate dance, and civilization is a thin veneer at best since we're always juggling the disparate urges so deeply ingrained in us all.

Since we live in a world where the biggest risk most of us take is getting to work on the 405 freeway, we have to substitute for the things that are now missing in our bland, modern lives.  Women read romance novels and go to "chick flicks," and guys vicariously live battle and conquest through sports, as well as take risks through other extreme activities.  Both satisfying basic instincts they don't even know they have.  

Now the problem this creates for modern marriage is the subject for another thread, but since this board is now only is about politics, I'm not going to write any more.

-- Modified on 3/25/2004 5:08:52 PM

I don't know about that. I don't swagger or smirk (or think billy idol is cool) yet buck "the system" (known to system buckers as the man) and reject streotypes most people accept as the word of god.

of what one really needs versus what seems to provoke interest.

Well said.

If the beast reminds them of another beast earlier in their life whose love they wanted very much, then it might be a second chance to try to get that love.

The first beast might be their father.

Cogito,

Wow.  I'm an "almost professional" writer and tend to be a wordsmith.   Every once in a while you read a post and realize that no amount of wordsmithing could improve upon the elegant simplicity of what has already been said, and yours is such a post.

My only criticism:  Great writing can often tackle controversial isues in a way that is inclusive rather than divisive.  This post is too finely crafted to require, or benefit from an alias.

But get this:  I am a risk-taking mountain climbing leader(big time, seriously life-threatening climbing, or at least it is for those who don't know what they are doing), but I was also married for 30 years, and very much committed to the relationship.

I agree that women are attracted to risk-takers, however.

I was well known posting on TER 4 or 5 years ago using a (very short) alias but reitred it as a form of protest when I was placed on moderated status for 6 months without cause.  When I finally came back nearly a year later, I started using another alias thinking I'd eventually return to using my original name.  As time went by, fewer people remembered me and I eventually moved on to using mulitple new names.  As a result, my account is still in that original name, but nobody can send me email.

Anyway, I truly appreciate your comments.  I, too, am an "almost professional" writer these days, having completed a book proposal and been circulating it around in search of an agent.  I value your comments regarding my writing style and have had others use almost the same words to describe it.  Over the years, I've come to realize that reducing complicated issues to the "elegant simplicity" you describe is the ultimate objective for me, as well as my greatest joy once I achieve it.  Now if I could just get a publisher interested...

Bad boys are unpredictable. Not always good but keep the excitment rolling.