is that the withdrawals themselves are completely legal and separate from any transaction with a provider. The bank can't make presumptions about how the money will be spent except in the case of "Mr GaGambler," who won't STFU about it, lol!
For those of you who routinely spend a lot of money on providers, how do you avoid running afoul of the IRS when it comes to large cash withdrawals and their draconian anti-money laundering bullshit laws and 4th amendment violating, civil forfeiture without cause and/or evidence of a crime governmental theft?
I tend to prefer overnight sessions and extended travel with providers, but I don't do so as often as I like because of the possible IRS attention.
If YOU (the person making such withdrawls) is paying taxes, how would it matter what or where you spend money on that is already accounted for? It would be more on the provider to report such large sums, since you have already done so. Less than 10,000 is generally not bothered with, so don't take out the money all at once if you feel you are being chased by the black helicopters. We are the ones who are at more risk for taking the money...not you who is giving it. You could go gamble, give your parents money, a child, a hot new GF, etc. I think you're being rather paranoid, if your money is accounted for.
Now, if your money is NOT being accounted for and you are in fact not claiming what you should be, then yah...start worrying.
-- Modified on 11/15/2013 9:45:15 AM
It's $4,000 courtesy of The Patriot Act. Not sure whether this covers withdrawals though. Wire transfers, certainly.
but I have never found it to be a big deal, I routinely transfer money between companies, and none of my banks think it's any kind of big deal when I draw out five or ten grand in cash. PLUS I carry four or five ATM cards "just in case" and I can draw out about five grand a day if needed from my ATM cards. If I need more than that, I am in trouble. lol
I have been doing this for decades, and never have I had an issue, either with my bank, or any of the branches of government over any of my cash transactions.
But Homeland Security is still looking at the transfer, they are simply not doing anything about it. Just don't try it if you're an agency girl sending money from Dubai.
That explains why I was asked for ID the last time I deposited 4300....LOOOOONG time ago lol. Motha fuka! Since when are DEPOSITS into my own account that I have paid taxes on, being looked at? I guess you just told me lol.
unless of course you own a bar or other cash business where you deposit large sums of cash as a matter of course.
IMO though, banks are just like hotels in that they treat you how you allow them to treat you. We know how many guys and ladies alike here worry about how they look when entering a hotel to avoid suspicion, whereas most of us simply look like we belong and hotel management in most cases would not dare to challenge us as we are treated as valued customers.
The same thing holds true for banks, just remember you are the customer, and the bank needs to kiss your ass, not the other way around. None of my banks would dream of giving me the third degree as I have made it plain that the moment I am unhappy with the treatment that I get, me and my money are out of there.
Nope...too many here are scared of their own shadows. It's the same with some folks who worry that TSA will scrutinize cash they carry on a plane as well.
But if you'd like to join me in a new joint venture WE can send all the folks who are scared shitless of their own shadows the "secret passwords"....but not till they sign up for it and wire "us" that $ 1M (of course we will discount LOL).
Seems like the governmental propaganda to scare the villagers is working LOL
IMO though, banks are just like hotels in that they treat you how you allow them to treat you. We know how many guys and ladies alike here worry about how they look when entering a hotel to avoid suspicion, whereas most of us simply look like we belong and hotel management in most cases would not dare to challenge us as we are treated as valued customers.
The same thing holds true for banks, just remember you are the customer, and the bank needs to kiss your ass, not the other way around. None of my banks would dream of giving me the third degree as I have made it plain that the moment I am unhappy with the treatment that I get, me and my money are out of there.
The truth is every time I use my credit card I get an extra twenty dollars in cash, I save this up until I have enough to go hobby. I am able to hobby at least once or twice a year this way. lol
I have another great idea, I have a bunch of wells that I need to drill next year, how about everyone who sends me a million bucks towards drilling those wells, I will keep fifty grand in cash and fed ex an envelope of cash to them whenever they feel the urge to monger. The wells of course are to be drilled in Georgia where there is no known oil production so you will generate a nice healthy tax write off for yourself to boot after I drill all dry holes for you. After all, if I actually hit oil, then you are going to have to figure out how to hide all that money you would be making, it's much simpler to simply lose the money by drilling dry holes, wouldn't you agree?
Shit...skyjockey would freak out if you sent him an envelope in cash of his own money.
That's OK...more for us.
Oh...I'm sure that some of these guys would be remiss to take out the money from the credit cards...you know, the IRS is just lurking and waiting for that fuck up LOL
I have another great idea, I have a bunch of wells that I need to drill next year, how about everyone who sends me a million bucks towards drilling those wells, I will keep fifty grand in cash and fed ex an envelope of cash to them whenever they feel the urge to monger. The wells of course are to be drilled in Georgia where there is no known oil production so you will generate a nice healthy tax write off for yourself to boot after I drill all dry holes for you. After all, if I actually hit oil, then you are going to have to figure out how to hide all that money you would be making, it's much simpler to simply lose the money by drilling dry holes, wouldn't you agree?
to an appointment, just so they will fit in better in the hotel lobby. Yep, a real bunch of geniuses we are working with here.
London you're incorrect on a few points here. 1) Under Title 31 of the Bank Secrecy Act, Banks are required to submit a Currency Transaction Report for any deposits or withdrawals in excess of $10,000 per day to combat criminal money laundering schemes. But they're also required to submit a Suspicious Activity Report for transactions that give the appearance of purposely circumventing these transaction amounts. i.e. regular withdrawals of $9,000, multiple withdrawals and separate banks. The IRS classifies these activities as "structured withdrawals" and will investigate for possible money laundering. 2) If you think I'm being paranoid here, you should do a little research on the IRS and their activities. Google Schott's Market sometime and you'll see how the IRS has seized the bank account of a small family owned business to the tune of $35,000 without cause, simply because they were making deposits slightly below the $10,000 limit. The family has never been accused or charged of any crime, but the IRS is still holding their money under Federal Asset Forfeiture
I worked for a bank (about 10 years ago) and all we had to report were transactions over 10k in a single day...that was for DEPOSITS IN CASH, not withdrawls. I see things have changed a bit, but the bottom line is if you are paying taxes on every dime you deposit, what the fk are you worried about? It is YOUR money, that you PAID taxes on to do with as you please now. How can you launder your own money that is already accounted for? That is the point I am not getting here. The provider is the one who will have to explain where she got 5k cash from, not you. Your money should be accounted for. Talk to a CPA is all I can tell you. I am not really versed in Accounting or Tax Laws, but I know enough to realize that if you're doing what you are supposed to be doing tax wise, you should not be so worried.
If I deposit 50k and paid taxes on 50k, I can take MY money out whenever I damn well please to do what I want with it....it is accounted for. If I choose to give 10k to charity, that's my business. The CHARITY is now the one who has to report that donation, and I get a deduction at year's end. Maybe, stop drawing out so much if you're so worried. Don't know what else to say, but I know men who spend over 100k a year on hookers, who have never had an issue, so if you're spending less than 10k, BFD.
I get that you are not supposed to be using your money for illegal ventures, but how are they going to know this when it's all cash? Does your provider give you a tax form to fill out? Cmon.
-- Modified on 11/15/2013 10:32:13 AM
I agree with you that it's none of the government's business what we do with our money. But the fact of the matter is that the IRS considers large cash withdrawals on a regular basis to be suspicious activity. Whether that is wrong or right, the justification under the Bank Secrecy Act is that this activity is a red flag for possible money laundering activity. Again, do a little research and you'll find many instances of private assets seized under Civil Forfeiture based on the IRS classification of suspicious banking activity. Let's be honest here, money exchanged in our "hobby" is, for all intents and purposes, a criminal enterprise. And while the government may or may not be interested in prosecutions for prostitution, they are ALWAYS interested in the money that can be seized as a result.
-- Modified on 11/15/2013 7:43:45 AM
and I am willing to wager that I spend a lot more cash than you do.
My bank is accustomed to me making five to ten thousand dollar cash withdrawals on a rather regular basis, and the truth is about half the tellers at one of my banks know exactly what I do with it, I call it my "Charlie Harper" withdrawals. The only question I would ever get from any of the tellers at my bank in Atlanta when withdrawing five or ten grand was "where are you off to this weekend Mr GaGambler?, have a great time" Of course blowing money on hookers in Latin America is perfectly legal, but the point of the matter is, people who act like they are trying to hide something get a lot more scrutiny than those of us who don't
As LR said, I pay taxes on the money I put in, what I do with it when I take it out is my own business. One aside. I almost never return my "Charlie Harper" money back to the bank. If I take out ten grand and only spend five, I just use it for "drinking and hooker cash" until it runs out, which is never very long.
is that the withdrawals themselves are completely legal and separate from any transaction with a provider. The bank can't make presumptions about how the money will be spent except in the case of "Mr GaGambler," who won't STFU about it, lol!
It's mobile...somewhat reliable as well. It also seats up to 12 comfortably...would make for a terrific party...don't you think?
so I let them live vicariously through me. I know when I lived in Atlanta a couple of them actually looked forward to me coming in and sharing with them what I had planned for the weekend.
Does anyone really think their banker cares if they bang a few hookers with their spare change?
Apparently many in TERland do believe that (see skyjockey's thread...oh, we're on it)
Those folks should only bank with their tin foil hats on....that'll protect them.
Does anyone really think their banker cares if they bang a few hookers with their spare change?
Also make sure to always....ALWAYS do the LE check. And if you send me $ 1M in cash....I'll give you the secret password. This message will self-destruct in 10 seconds.
Yes London, you are wise and all knowing, and I'm just a tin foil hat wearing nutjob who who not pay any attention at all to the fact that according to the U.S. Department of Justice, civil asset forfeitures netted $4.2 billion in 2012. Nothing to see here. After all, London worked in a BANK don't you know! I mean, the IRS would NEVER operate outside the purview of their operational mandate right? Just ask Lois Lerner
Yes...you are a paranoid and delusional man. Put that tin foil hat on and hide in the fucking basement.
This is NOT news...CID has been around for a VERY long time. They operate with local authorities who are typically investigating illegal acts which have been under investigation. To honestly worry about some cash withdrawals from a personal bank account...and in all likelihood in sums that are de minimis...is paranoia.
I'll bet you also are scared of being at the grocery store thinking that Federal investigators are watching your every move?
Stop watching NCIS and related TV shows. Those are supposed to be entertainment. Or I suspect you believe everything that the talking heads tell you.
He's a troll...doubt he is even a trick. Sounds more like some ass clown trying to figure out how you boys ahem "launder" your money that is already accounted for lol. Wow....
I never said "I" was the expert lame brain...learn to read.
-- Modified on 11/15/2013 12:35:00 PM
No London, I am not a troll. I came here asking what others have been doing to avoid an issue that DOES exist based on the experiences that others have had with IRS civil asset forfeitures as described in the several links I posted. This was a reasonable question based on facts, not conjecture, and, silly me, I actually though I would get some intelligent and well thought out responses. You, however, decided to resort to ridicule without, as you now admit, having a reasonable understanding of the issue. And now, as seems to be typical with people you disagree with, you have to resort to puerile name calling instead. Ass clown? Lame brain? Seriously? Seems a little beneath even you London.
My first and second responses to you were legit without name calling asking why you were so concerned, and you explained that. Then YOU accused me of calling you a tin foil wearer when it was in fact CPA who fkin attacked you! There is nothing wrong or mean about this post, so again, direct your comments where they belong...
We told you what we have been doing...end of story. No one is going to come here and give you (a person with zero credibility) a damn play by play on how much they spend, what they deposit, what they take out, etc. That's fkin retarded! We don't sit here and admit how much money we make a month either for obvious reasons. Again, things like this are better discussed in PRIVATE if you are so damn paranoid. Why would another monger with an actual identity here risk his privacy for you? Not gonna happen.
You are citing freaking articles that have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HOBBY lol. Apples and Oranges! Of course a small business who is not paying taxes or money laundering is going to be a target...if that is NOT you, why so worried? Most of us pay taxes on the money we earn here so we have no cause to worry so damn much. Clean your act up.
-- Modified on 11/15/2013 1:33:53 PM
He's been virtually begging to be mocked, and if we didn't mock him, all the BSC hookers that we mock would be right to claim a double standard.
The long and the short of it is, if you are going to post like a paranoid crack head, fighting the geek monster after a four day jag, peering out the window looking for the black helicopters. Well then, that's just how we are going to treat you.
Hows this for intelligent? I spend more on hookers in a year than everyone here I'd wager. I pull out cash every week from my bank. Yes the one that seats 12 comfortably. I know them. They know me. Been doing it for years. Never a question from anyone anytime ever. I even pull lots of cash out of the ATM. I pay more than my fair share of taxes. Never file late. Always make more than my anticipated payment. And in almost 65 years have never even been audited.
Woop woop woop, the black helo's are coming for you bro DUCK DAMMIT!!!
out a couple of thousand a little at a time to build your hobby fund. Place it in a safety deposit box for when you get the urge. I never worry about the IRS. It is not a big thing.
Putting cash in a safe deposit box is illegal. I worked as a bank teller in college.
Do what you want! Where in any of those articles does it say the guy was busted for seeing hookers? We know many people are targeted by the IRS, but not your typical monger who spends less than 20k a year on us...show me ONE provider even that has been busted for tax evasion...NOT AN AGENCY, BUT AN INDY!
I noticed you have NEVER discussed exactly how much YOU spend, you have no reviews, new handle, etc. Sorry, but you sound more like a reporter or some kid gathering info for a grad school thesis than a hobbyist.
You come here asking how we do things, then get all pissy when we tell you how, and you don't like it. We are not in your bank account so we can't tell YOU what to do. Christ. Put the pipe down!
I am so fkin sure guys we know personally are going to come spill how they do this on a public forum...nice try dumbass.
-- Modified on 11/15/2013 1:00:58 PM
but we are equal opportunity here, BSC hobbyists get the same treatment as BSC hookers. I hope the ladies are taking notice that we don't only "pick on them" when they act stupid.
Perhaps some profiling going on here?
Keep on digging Mr. Tinfoil hat wearer.
Don't look now but these posts may be read by LE...HOLY SHIT
Maybe you should just stay inside your home...wouldn't want those black helicopters chasing you all over.
Everyone in this thread has NEVER had an issue, but he wants us to start looking out the window like him, I guess. Funny. I have more worries about the IRS in my personal life than the hobby one. I don't make shit here lol.
Why all the vitriol ChgoCPA? The article I cited describes a case that DID happen and is ongoing. This isn't speculation from what you describe as a tinfoil hat wearer.
And exactly what part of the article did I not read? The part where a small business owner had his bank account seized by the IRS to the tune of $35,000? The part where the IRS used civil asset forfeiture based on only a suspicion of illegal activity based on the fact that he had been making deposits of less that $10,000? Or was it the part where he has not been charged with any crime whatsoever, and yet the IRS still refuses to return his money? If you have any additional knowledge of this case that I'm not aware of, I'd be very willing to hear it.
But really, hurling insults simply because... well.... for whatever reason you seem to think is necessary, doesn't really seem to serve any purpose for those who actually find this board a valuable source of information. Instead, it really only serves to turn it into a bitter and childish little clique for a vocal few
Listen moron...you are trying to cite cases that have NOTHING to do with daily cash deposits/withdrawals. Yet you want others to believe that because CID was brought into a situation that is clearly (if you have a functioning brain that is) one of profiling...and in all likelihood has been under investigation for some time (as in how much has been wired to Tehran).
Do a search on what CID does...rather than take a snippet from an article written by another paranoid asswipe as the truth.
Have there ever been errors in property seizures? Of course, mistakes do happen. Is this one of them? Since they haven't asked me to review the evidence "yet"....I can't know if this was an innocent mistake. But many people pull the "I'm innocent" card out...that is until the overwhelming evidence is presented to them.
And if you really want me to hurl insults...I would be happy to oblige.
How in the world are you trying to make this into one that would ever...EVER affect the johns and hookers here in TERland? Either stay on point or go and try your bullshit on the P&R board.
And exactly what part of the article did I not read? The part where a small business owner had his bank account seized by the IRS to the tune of $35,000? The part where the IRS used civil asset forfeiture based on only a suspicion of illegal activity based on the fact that he had been making deposits of less that $10,000? Or was it the part where he has not been charged with any crime whatsoever, and yet the IRS still refuses to return his money? If you have any additional knowledge of this case that I'm not aware of, I'd be very willing to hear it.
But really, hurling insults simply because... well.... for whatever reason you seem to think is necessary, doesn't really seem to serve any purpose for those who actually find this board a valuable source of information. Instead, it really only serves to turn it into a bitter and childish little clique for a vocal few.
Unless you are sending $10k or more overseas.
You are confused or being troll
Again, the IRS shouldn't care, but they use the excuse that they're combating money laundering. The weapon they use is the 1970 Bank Secrecy act that was passed as a weapon against large scale drug running operations who use domestic banks as a means of laundering profits from illicit drug operations. As such, the IRS requires all banks to file a transaction report for all cash deposits and withdrawals in excess of $10,000 (and as has been pointed out, the Patriot Act reduced that threshold to $4,000) They also require a suspicious activity report be filed for any transactions that are made in an attempt to circumvent this requirement i.e. multiple withdrawals in the same day at different banks. In the case I cited (which nobody seems to be acknowledging as the basis for my initial post), the owners of a small neighborhood grocery store had their bank account seized by the IRS, merely because their deposit habits were reported to be suspicious. They have not been charged, nor convicted with any crime whatsoever, and the IRS has provided no evidence to that effect. But under the laws of civil asset forfeiture, the seizing of $35,000 of a legally run business is legal. I still don't get why everyone is calling me a troll because I asked a simple question based on this case and the possible legal ramifications for this "hobby"? When someone asks about a case that could have dangerous consequences for a provider, does everyone immediately start screaming troll???
The CIA really is monitoring some money transfers. But this does not validate the fears of some of you, unless you're using Western Union for overseas transfers. Still it's interesting, given this discussion.
The funny part and like CPA said, is this has always been going on! The OP needs to STOP drawing out so much money and be done with it. Other than that, there is really not much one can tell him. Draw out 200 a week, save it up, and see one hooker a month. No one is forcing him to pay for ass. How have you guys gotten away with large withdrawls for so long? Only you can answer that, and no one is going to be stupid enough to give a play by play of their financial activity on a public board that cops can READ!
No one is saying his concerns don't exist...just that the majority of US don't need to worry so much about them for one reason or another. I have not deposited over 5k in a month in years, and doubt I will unless it's a check from my real job. I tithe and I pay taxes. Done deal. On paper, I look broke.
pen up an offshore bank account with a credit card and an international business corporation . Depending on the complexity you could have an asset protection trust owning the company and also have international trust banking arrangement. This is what I do for a living. send me a message if you want more
details -- the credit card would be used by you to get merchandise or services like an escorts time as well as cash advances. If you have an atf you could also set her up with an ibc and offshore account. The possibilities are endless