Who would trust a provider with their credit card information? An idiot!
Then you have a paper trail. Not smart!

So what if you give the hobbyist sub par service? He initiates a charge back. Then you will loose your time and your money. It happens.
A provider could run a card multiple times with multiple cards unauthorized.

Trust is not a slight issue. It is THE issue.

Assuming that trust was not an issue,  it sounds a little like Hertz"s pay now program.   That has a discount for paying ahead.

It is an interesting idea from an interesting woman.

paper trail=bad. Sorry but one never knows what may happen down the road.  If you were to run into trouble with LE or the IRS your financial records would most likely be a part of the investigation and that means that any guy who used a Credit Card would become an immediate part of the investigation.

It's really not simply about trust.  There are a couple of regulars that I would pay with a debit card without hesitation if not for the possible legal entanglements. There is one gal that I actually used to pay through her paypal account but she owned a retail store so the charges were easily explainable.

with a tantrika in NYC named Iris.  Go check out my latest review of her and click on her site.

She has an on-line store where you click on the amount of time you want to buy, put it in the shopping cart and away you go.

No cash to handle and my CC gives me 2% back.

Of course it's only for us lucky bastard single types and you have to have a lot of trust in the person, but if you have those two things covered it's quite a nice feature.

I could just imagine what you are buying on that site too.
That is a poor example for newbie hobbyists.

I would have put my arm around her while explaining that as long as she was young and in shape. Hey, you never know.

in the mail, and then the guy pays with his credit card.

      This way we have all the benefits you list and we eliminate your concern about the woman could "'take the money and run', and the guy could cancel the charge...."

     
What do you think?

some predator drone jokes next?

use the Internet to make your date.

     It's the use of any facility of interstate commerce such as the mails, phone system, or internet that gets you. So go ahead and make that electronic payment as it is not going to make your situation any worse.

As long as the panties are the right size and color.

You miss the point about the paper trail. It can follow multiple paths and the IRS is the least of the concerns.
I would suggest you do some real research into the other liabilities of that venture.

Have you not learned some basics already?
I have to start charging consultation fees around here.

There were situations when I stayed in hotel rooms after my date had to leave, was given key to house , you get the picture

At some point you actually gotta trust people.  What they do and how you meet them is irrelevant.

in buying your time with your favorite lady online via credit/debit?

My girlfriend and I were talking about this jokingly a couple of nights ago, but really, I don't think it's that bad of an idea! I know it sounds kinda silly, and a little unorthodox, but for the right type of guy (one who doesn't have a significant other, or has one who isn't permitted into his "personal" finances) I bet in the long run it would be a great convenience. Just click on the package you want and put it in your "cart", make sure the billing shows up as something legitimate. Mmmm....

If anyone has seen it or done this, please let me know what you think (both sides)! I am leaning more and more to making it an option. It would maybe save a couple of steps for the client, and it would make our time together more intimate without the business end of it getting in the way!

Of course there would be a slight trust issue, the woman could "take the money and run", and the guy could cancel the charge, so I wouldn't recommend it for just any two people; it would be best if some sort of relationship/friendship and understanding is had. But I think that it would be a nice touch for some...

What do you guys think?


Dani

I would never do this because I've heard stories about advances being paid through paypal and the provider not showing up or bait and switch. Will you get the money back? Doubtful.

Still, there are probably some business travelers who might find this convenient. Give it a try, see how it works and let us know how it goes.

seen and felt comfortable with. It would have to be someone who had a good number of positive reviews. No newbie's. PayPal would work fine for me. I pay people I hire as contractors that way, so why not?

I travel a lot and I get tired of having to go to some local bank to withdraw money (and pay their ATM fees and my bank ATM fees). So, yeah, it would work for me.

You do it first and others will be standing in line to follow your lead!

IRS questions to many things during an audit,just went through an audit for my business and personel.Paper trail is the worst.Now you get fingerprinted at the bank.Cash is golden

your killin me LMAO

I used PayPal on a regular basis at one time. I found it a great convenience not to have to go into my bank every week to ask for several hundred dollars cash. Especially since all the tellers knew me and were customers of my business. I found it very cool. I had a great deal of trust with the provider and never got burned. Not once. May be naive, but I wish more folks would consider!

i had a tough time telling my female accountant the charges were for bang bros network

There are providers out there who are mature, responsible, ethical and trustworthy. I have had the pleasure of seeing some of them and frankly would have no problem paying them in advance via any number of methods.

HOWEVER -- and it is a big however -- they are not the only people involved.

Even providers who do everything right and safeguard hobbyist's information as much as humanly possible, even from S.O.s and the like, can simply get nailed by the cops seemingly at random. Shazam -- now the cops have my info. Even a super-genius hottie who screens six ways from Sunday is at risk.

Generally speaking, this isn't an end of the world issue because the info is not directly actionable for a variety of reasons. However, it most certainly could give cops a means of blackmailing me (or, at least, they would think so, which is enough to make them a pain in the ass), etc.

So even though, at a personal level and for non-hobby activities there exist providers that I could trust implicitly with my credit cards and the like; I wouldn't use such means to actually pay for hobbying.

This is especially the case as, were we ever caught, using an electronic payment of that sort would automatically bring our activities under Federal jurisdiction because it is impossible to use electronic means without engaging in "interstate commerce."

consider the possibility that there is a misfortune and the lady is compromised. records of such transactions can be used to create further compromise and embarrassment. why give an intrusive troublemaker in the future the means to create inconvenience?

now there are a few ladies that i have trusted with so much information that it wouldn't make much difference. even with a substantial record of trustworthiness, i'd prefer not.

I just don't want to lose my reputation of being a mangina by agreeing with you.

-- Modified on 2/23/2011 7:21:04 PM

...as far as I'm concerned, if you fall under the watch of the legal eye, then all other things like phone calls, emails and actually being watched would come into play first. Yes, credit card bills would add fuel to the fire, but it would already have started before they check your credit records. Now, sure, the IRS may wonder about your expenses, but writing it off as a leisure, like a spa trip, wouldn't hurt! Especially if you only did it once a month!

A good way to try and prevent actual charges that can be held against you (not falling under scrutiny of the law and being keep watch over, though) would be to sell something! Like the loophole that "porn" is ok, so taping a session  makes it legal-- a gentleman could buy some panties or something!

Hmm?



Dani

E-commerce tools are set up these days, you only get the last four numbers, so no one would have the actual number...

And I have had numerous set up situations wherein I have had access to credit card numbers and such. I am not suggesting this be done with just anyone, but the people that were on the level of my gentlemen who had monthly arrangements would be ideal candidates. BOTH of us would be at risk, as I mentioned, so I wouldn't allow just anyone to take that route with me, just the same.

As for the paper trail, yes, there would be one, but there would be emails and phone calls just the same, and I'm sure the LE would look into that before anything; seeing as the tradition is this is a cash-only business. Now, in an effort to make things legal on paper, in a reply posting I just made I amended the idea, saying that something should be sold-- like a pair of panties!

The phone, Internet, morse code over ham radio or practically anything else save a string and tin cans (actually, maybe even that as the string was obtained via interstate commerce) makes the crime federal.

But I'm not sure that it makes the situation no worse. It's yet one more count. It all gets played with anyway, as you know.

You've answer for everything, hun... So please, I invite you to be more specific, what else would there be to worry about that phone records, emails, IP addresses, and plain old surveillance wont beat?

You would need to proceed with extreme caution.

Although I would not be using it myself, I know of a couple of massage providers that do accept PayPal. In that case you are of course purchasing "massage services". When you buy something via PayPal, the other person's REAL NAME is usually displayed on your receipt. If you have a bank account that uses a business name or corporate entity you MIGHT be able to set up a PayPal account that doesn't reveal your name and address etc.

PayPal and also most credit card merchant accounts specifically forbid their use for escort services and other "adult services". My understanding is that this is because of the high number of "chargebacks" (disputed charges) that occur with that type of business .

business name and service can NOT be construed as adult in any way. PP doesn't allow adult services to use their service.

I do not now, nor will I ever require your consultation, m'dear. I would sooner ask one of those animatronic gypsies for a quarter.

As someone mentioned earlier, and as I had hoped would be common knowledge throughout, there are so many other things to worry about more than a "paper trail", hence why I put more focus on the issues of trust. Once you pick up your phone and dial a woman, you are in violation of the law-- federal, in states like NV. So, I think the least of your worries would be someone looking into your finances. If you are suspect of being a client of a woman who is under investigation, there are several other issues that would come up first since this is generally considered a "cash only" business. As for the IRS, you are allowed leisure expenses, you can explain it away, I'm sure. Hell, you could even tell them you have a kept woman, there is no law against that.

So, please, can you go harass someone else with your "advice"?



Dani

How many reputable escort agencies (and yes, there are several) use CCs? Most of them.

Why then shouldn't we be able to do the same? Just because we're independents doesn't mean we can't enjoy the same ease of CCs as an escort agency.

If we have a merchant account and a shopping cart (referring to mrfisher's example), then why not? Yes, there is the paper trail, but it isn't illegal to buy adult products (panties, toys, lingerie, candles, jewelry and the list can go on); no one else needs to know what "else" the gent bought.

One thing to consider is that most of the guys who are nay-saying this aren't your target market when it comes to the CC idea. They're unable to hide the purchase. Unlike some of the lawyers and doctors who manage to find a way to not only hide it in plain site, but get a tax write-off somehow as well, the ones who are dissing your viable idea cannot take advantage of it.

So, don't be too discouraged by the lack of enthusiasm. Obviously, mrfisher is thus far the only one who can take advantage of such a good idea.

While I have no reason to your integrity, the trust issue is more than slight.  Never again will I make advance payment...ever.  Even if the nationally known provider who burned me makes things whole in the end...and she has never acted with malice before, so I hope she may.  But never again...

To me this is the best option, no running to the atm or to the bank, put it on the card!!!

....on the head and said everything I haven't!

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I tip my hat to you!

And I love your sites' theme! Very original!


Dani

as a general thing - and it may be correct as far as it goes. However, it's a little deeper than that as well. There's also the overall distrust of the adult industry as it currently stands.

With the person I used paypal with, just sent money to her email address. So you may not even need a business name.

If you look at the debt of the average person or the country itself, debit is the way everyone operates.  They might say they don't, but they turn around and charge it anyways.  Do as they do, not as they say.

There is no way I would ever pay in such a way. It is mostly about the paper trail. To avoid leaving much of a paper trail I employ a unresisted hobby phone that is rotated out every time a lady I have seen gets busted, an unregistered hobby email that is again cancelled after the bust of anyone I have seen, and a hobby computer that has never been to a social networking site. There is no good way to hide a CC from LE except to buy one of those gift CC. That is more work then getting cash.

The second issue is trust. Lets be honest, there are lots of untrustworthy people in this hobby on both sides of the envelope. Heck one time I was even robbed. There is a reason I don't take anything I am not willing to lose to a session. There is a reason that many hobbyist will not pay a deposit until a level of trust is established.

Yes with a lady I have seen for a while I do start to develop a since of trust and yes if it wasn't for the paper trail thing I would trust then enough to use a CC. But that would be an exception to the rule. After all most ladies will not trust me enough to give me there real name until they get to know me after a few dates. It take even more trust than that to put out CC information.

So it is not that I cannot take advantage of such an idea as I have no one that I need to hide my hobbing from except LE. It is that CC are not discreet, do half of LE job for them, and I don't trust most ladies enough to take the chance. It is the paper trail that often brings down the agencies. There is a reason cash is king in this hobby.

Thus supporting the idea the OP stated early on that she didn't expect this to be for everyone.

Whatever anyone's personal ideas on this, it seems that it has been pretty well thought out. ( there are still some things that would have to be thought out as it was implemented.)

Just because I can't do it doesn't automatically make it a stinker.

Under new IRS rules that were part of health care reform, the threshold for sending someone a 1099 is much lower than it used to be.

Personally, if a lady wants to send me her name, address and social security number, I have no problem with sending her a 1099. It will help her document her income for purposes of figuring percentages for allowable SEP contributions and such.

But something tells me most ladies wouldn't be too keen on that. LOL

The good news is that indys definitely pass the "independent subcontractor" tests of the IRS.

I have a provider friend that used to accept Paypal.  She advertised on her website that she accepted it, and PP found out and froze her funds.  They held her money for 6 months, then told her she was no longer allowed to have a PP account.  She waited 6 more months and asked to be reinstated and promised to behave, and they still told her no.

You could even use paypal.

I'd rather put it on a card instead of walking around with nearly 1k cash in my pocket.

You've just proven what I said: Because of your reasoning, you feel that you cannot take advantage of this idea. Your reasoning is solid and valid and because of it, in your mind, you can't take advantage of this.

It doesn't make Dani's idea any less valid. It doesn't even have to be an adult toy; it could be a piece of jewelry or an MLM-type thing.

But, it's okay. She said right in her subject line who her target market is.

Its really good to see you on the board again!

You never know if someone else instead of LE has been watching a room a lady is in! I have heard of that sort of thing, people figuring out that there is a woman of leisure staying in their hotel and robbing the guys that come to see her! Granted, I heard about it in bad neighborhoods and I would NEVER stay in a bad neighborhood, but honestly, it takes all types; you never know.

It would also work in the ladys' favor a lil' bit because her gentleman could surmise that she likely had nothing to do with something like that because she knew he already paid, and it may help save her reputation. Mmmm, that is a really good point! Thank you!

Dani

This would be the exact scenario because, as I said, for me the issue of trust is key here, not the paper trail. It would have to be a guy I know wouldn't welch on the deal, and also trusted me with no problem so there would be no anxious feeling right on up to the actual meeting.

It would make things easier and more fun, because we wouldn't have to interrupt the flow of things to make sure I "know the envelope is in the bathroom", or pause as pants are coming off to grab the wallet... The romance gets ruined slightly when you have to bring up the business end, and I don't know about you other guys and gals, but I like the mood to stay focused on us.

Thank you, so much, for explaining the way and person this would work for....


Dani

But it adds to the risk for both parties. It isn't any worse the using a work email address or a non-disposable phone to hobby with. People do that all the time. It is all about risk tolerance. Ease VS. safety.

I am sure some would prefer ease and would gladly take the added risk. Agencies take that risk all the time. But the lady better be extra careful with her screening as every guy that paid with a CC would instantly be on LE's harass list if she got busted just like the guys on Miami Companions found their self on such a list.

Bye the way, the "I'm selling my panties the sex is free" thing has been tried and LE can see right through it. A lady here in Utah tried it and was still convicted of prostitution.

-- Modified on 2/24/2011 2:40:27 PM

NEVER in a million years would I do that. It's insane.

Kudos for thinking outside the box,however!


HH