The main reason that most women become providers is that it makes economic sense for them.  It is a way to support themselves in a lifestyle that suits them, with a lot of independence and a greater ability to spend their time as they wish than they would have if they had an 8-to-5 job.

But there is another reason that women become providers, a contributing reason that is almost never spoken of, even among providers themselves.  And that is that it gives them an affirmation of their attractiveness and desirability to men.  For a variety of reasons, they need this.

A lot of guys don't get this, and think that the provider he is with either already knows she is desirable, so there's no reason to tell her, or that she doesn't really care much what he thinks of her.  But this is wrong.  What I am saying to the guys here is:  If you think she is attractive and desirable, let her know!  You don't have to say it to her in so many words (although there's certainly nothing wrong with just saying it!) - you can let her know in a thousand nonverbal ways, with a look, with your body language, with the way you breathe.

They give us what we need, let's give them what they need back.

to talk to ladies of the calibre of most on this board, let alone go any further. I expect the ladies know this, just from looking at us! But as you say, it never hurts to let them know we find them attractive, and I usually do just that.

to let her know that she is desireable not only physically, but intellectually, socially and otherwise which is so often the case with many of the women here. But don't you think that we all enjoy hearing those things regardless of gender or profession? I don't know that this is "unique" to them given their chosen line of work nor is it unique to women alone.

While I've met providers who are insecure about their looks - just like most civilian women I know have a hang-up about one part of their body or another - I would doubt very much if this is a motivation for becoming a provider.  Men pay us for sex because we are selling it.  It doesn't mean a provider is particularly attractive because men pay her for sex.

If a woman is constantly seeking reassurance she's attractive then that's fine if she gets great scores for looks in reviews.  If she doesn't then it's going to be hard for her.  If she is comfortable with how she looks then the review score for looks will, I think, be a lot less important to her than the performance score.  

To do the job and be able to read reviews, providers do need a certain amount of emotional resilience and may not need constant reassurance as you suggest.

Having said all that, of course it's nice to receive compliments if they are genuinely felt (but best to say nothing than to give an insincere compliment, IMO).

I strongly agree with you Carrie.  I think providers are less likely than other women to need frequent affirmation of their desirability.  If they had the same level of insecurities and need for approval as most women, they wouldn't last 30 seconds in this career.

However, having said that, I'm sure there are women like that in this biz, and they are the ones who become worn down rather than empowered and find themselves turning to drugs and alcohol to fill the hole in their self-esteem.

It is very difficult sometimes. I had a terrible time recently in a certain city and it will take me sometime to get over that. I appreciate every compliment I get because you need them in order to get over the rough times.

Believe it or not I tried Internet dating for years and I sucked at it. Probably the worst thing a guy I really liked that I had been dating for a year was that I was too tall. I felt like a freak. There was just nothing I could do about that. Ever since, I slouch. I was such a basket case around that time that I had trouble interacting with people. I was a pretty, but I was a nerd. I could not relate to chit chat. I spent a lot of time buried in the self-help section at bookstores trying to figure it all out when I realized that there was something things that I just needed to let go.  After that I gave up dating. Now my work has replaced that, and I feel like I have a lot of boyfriends that love me in their own unique ways but ultimately I feel better being alone for now.

I model and I know I look pretty but it really means nothing because when the makeup comes off and the baggy clothes go on there is no more attention. It can make you feel fake, and insecure. The contrast is too high.

When someone says I am beautiful I always feel incredulous, like you're kidding right? You are just saying that...That is why I really treasure the times I get to spend time in nature. It is very healing. The silence is so expansive.

Carrie and Emma use the two as if they were interchangeable but I am not so sure of that. The former adjective refers to general beauty, the latter to sexuality. Consider the porn business for a moment. Take a decidedly average looking woman, slap on some implants, bikini wax and 6" heels and she becomes instantly desirable (actually consider the impact porn has had on our sexual culture in general).

Now if I only had a link to refer to.....

Sweetheart,

I clicked on the link to your web site - believe me - you are beautiful and desirable with or without make-up and baggy clothes.  I don't know where you're located, but if it's anywhere near DFW I'd be more than happy to spend some quality time with you.

HJ

Hey girl, long time since....

I am rather taken with NM's feeleings here.  Though I have essentially ended this phase of my existance I have been lurking around from time to time and have enjoyed the stirings NM has made here.

I had the very good fortune of meeting NM early on in her venture into this world as an indie (think I'm the second poster on her reviews) and I clearly remember a hint of self denial on her part when I expressed my feelings about her appearance.  And more to my suprize was her passing on my comment about her intellegence.  NM, now that you have been heard and seen by so many here I doubt that you can deny any longer the fact that you are both beautiful and very bright.  You may have these feelings, but I have no doubts.

You do have boyfriends.  Lots of us.

Love you NM,
J

That could only be the case if they haven't read their reviews, some, no, alot of the reviews are just plain brutal. I know you paid for it and entitled to your opinion, but didn't your momma teach you "If you don't have anything good to say, shut the fuck up"

The last three providers I've seen have all said how they hate the bad reviews and most of what was said was just subjective not something they did or didn't do. If I was a provider and I mean a highly rated one, I could easily get a rejection complex from some of these reviews.

One reason I see providers is because I fear rejection. Nine times out of ten we both have a good time but then as always YMMV.

that this explaination of "the main reason why" providers do what they do is coming from a client/male.  Rather presumptious IMHO.

Can't say I have a problem with letting a lovely lady know that you like what she is, however.

I agree that we do claim back alot of our own power by doing things on our terms and so, by turning the tables, so to speak, a lady could certainly feel much better about herself in many ways, aesthetically could certainly be one of them.

I did started serial dating to put a clear boundary in my relationship with men. Simple enough?

xoxo
Elise

That's not to say that I don't agree with your basic recommendation to compliment the women whose company you enjoy- if you do it from the heart.

Many of us have dated attractive women who felt they were unattractive, so we all know they're out there.  But even for those whose self-confidence is fine, it's always nice to hear the words if they come from someone who means what he says and isn't just BS'ing for his own ends.

If I pay $$$ or $$$$$ for a lady .. yeah, I must say "you are beautiful" since I value my time with you. So, it's easy to understand that if guys keep on returning to the ladies and spending their life's savings, he finds her sexually attractive, truly beautiful, or easily both.

You are all beautiful - NetMichelle, CarrieofLondon, and EmmaBond ... no doubt about that!

Now here's the real question. What if the ladies tells us guys sweet things? Do we find that hard to believe ...

I've had a provider who told me "I should be thanking YOU" when I told her she was amazing.  Another provider said "You are very sweet, please don't forget me (with a real expression on her face)". So, there are three interpretations for guys here: 1) It's either these comments are genuine, 2) a good business strategy for providers so clients may return, or 3) both ... I try not to be attached to these comments since the heart or mind plays tricks at times - although they are delicious to hear when spoken.  Now if a lady calls and tells me that she wants a civvi date or a date to the movies (without $$$) ... now that's a real compliment that I will take to heart.

Im with netmichelle on this.  I too tried internet dating after moving to NYC and not knowing a soul.  I spent a good year going on countless dates and that was it.  During this period I felt completely used and insecure in myself and my looks. I have always been insecure and Ive always thought of myself as a bit of a dork.  Now, after escorting for a couple of months, I have never felt more confident.  I LOVE when a guy tells me Im beautiful and wonderful.  Yes, I got into it initally for the money and freedom. But its the love and kindness that a guy shows that makes me stay in this biz. And when Im told this, my heart melts, my eyes tear up and I fall in love for just a moment.  Its in these moments that I thank the guy profusely and bashfully say 'no its you who is wonderful'.  Its a shame that such pleasure and love and kindness is illegal and not revered in out society.  I have probably saved so much money on therapy I now dont need.  I am more secure in myself. And most importantly I feel important and loved if even for an hour.

But, apart from that, I want to add this: EVERYone wants to feel appreciated, and accepted. This Hobby allows us both the freedom to express that, without obligation. We mutually fulfill a need for each other.
If each others' need is understood and respected, it amounts to an attractiveness and desirability (to each other) that is at an elevated, distinct level.

As a woman, and as a Provider, the desire to share this MAKES me feel desirable.



(spelling errors)

-- Modified on 8/1/2004 8:25:35 PM

"2) a good business strategy for providers so clients may return,"

I generally believe this.  (You should see me -- I am no Antonio Banderas.)

However, I don't hold it against the provider.  I feel that they see enough insecure guys that this kind of BS is "expected".

-Hoot.

I'm skeptical about that.  Definitely women become obsessed with it, or vain, they can feel crushed or starved when they don't get those compliments, or even worse, they get criticism instead, but there's something else going on there besides just insecurity, too.  Something that the insecurity, if its felt, has latched to, that existed before.  Something I can't really put my finger on or figure out.

I think, like most things in human affairs, it comes down to biology and evolution.    

/Zin

I think most providers do it for the money. Plain and simple.
Some actually like doing it. But most need the money.

-- Modified on 8/1/2004 11:56:33 PM

Childhood molestation and abuse is more likely the reason for entering stripping/providing/porn.  Not in every case but the majority.

From my favorite radio program:
"If a girl gets molested at age three, she later becomes a prostitute; if a girl instead gets molested at ten, she later turns lesbian."

more quotes at the link, good reading.

Among street prostitutes, which comprises only about 10% of the industry, you are correct, but among indy's, agencies, and massage you are incorrect.  Among indy's the rate of prior sexual abuse is the same as the general population (38%, which is way to high in either case).  Among agencies and massage the rate of prior abuse is about 49%.

JTH

I've gotten into the heads of some rather exceptionally beautiful woman because of my work and life in general and one thing they all say:  It's rare that they get a sincere compliment about their looks or their taste in attire.  As it's been explained to me, people just assume really beautiful women hear it from everyone all the time, or they already know it, or a guy thinks giving a girl a compliment will be perceived by her as just another guy sucking up to her.  Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.  Everyone thinks a hot woman get complimented all the time, so these women get complimented even less.  The better looking the woman, the less she hears compliments.  OF COURSE these women KNOW they're hot - but that doesn't mean they don't like to hear it once in a while.  One of the most useful life lessons' I've ever learned is never hesitate to tell a model how good she looks or how well put together her ensemble.  A well-thought out and genuine compliment will endear you to a lady, be they provider or supermodel.

BTW, I happened to catch "48 Hours Investigates: The Search for Angela Shelton", which I thought was very good. I went on her website and sent her an email, and she personally answered yesterday.
Courageous woman..

Why would molestation and abuse cause this?  It would seem to me, wouldn't this have the opposite effect?  Wouldn't women be so revolted by sex afterward that they would tend to shrink from such professions where sex is at its center?  Why wouldn't puritanism be caused by abuse?

How do they determine that women have been abused?  It's done by self-reporting, long after the fact.  There are prominant women who have worked as prostitutes, most notably, Annie Sprinkle, who adamantly deny they were ever abused or raped as children.  Why discount their stories as denial if you believe others?

Moreover, stories of abuse are so common in the general population, and most woman with these experiences never turn to the sex industry.  So you could at least say that there's something else besides abuse going on if some women turn to the sex industry and others don't.  

And how do you know that the ones who become providers just aren't more able to talk about it than the ones who don't?  Wouldn't that skew the self-reporting a little?  

Obviously, at the lowest levels of the sex industry, abuse and intimidation are used to enslave women and children, but this doesn't suggest that abuse makes women willfully choose it.  A slave is a slave, whether sexual or not, and a provider is a provider, not a slave.  One who embraces providership does not embrace slavery.      

Designing a good study of human sexuality is the most difficult thing in the world to do, don't underestimate this.  And don't jump to conclusions.  Psychologists just aren't doing their jobs these days when they "uncover" abuse and stop their work there.  

/Zin

Where do you get your statistics?

I question them from street prostitutes being 10% of the industry to 38% of women being sexually abused.

I doubt a valid study of this has really been done and that you are stating psuedo science as much as anyone else.

Here's my two cents on the subject:

I don’t think too many providers, high end or otherwise, go into the profession for affirmation of their desirability.  That doesn’t mean many aren’t insecure about their appearance.  As somebody else said earlier in this thread, the fact that men will pay you for sex doesn’t mean much: many men will pay for it with just about anything, at least looks-wise.  And while it’s true that many sex-workers were abused as children, that is probably more true for dancers and lower-end hookers than the providers that most of the guys here seem to like.  While all of our experiences are necessarily anecdotal, I am virtually certain it would not be true for any of the few providers I have met, for what that’s worth.  

But I think the providers here are just like most women, who despite their beauty, can be insecure about their appearance, particularly as they get older.  And as I said above, the fact that men are paying for sex with him doesn’t much to allay that insecurity.  One very popular and highly rated provider I have met spent considerable “screening” time seeking affirmation that she was my type: she had this concern I might not like her and just turn around and leave.  Considering that her review give her all 8’s, 9’s and 10’s for appearance, that seemed a little odd.  But what seemed a lot odd was the idea that anyone would be so rude as to leave just because the provider didn’t look like what he expected.  (Other than where the photos or description were grossly misrepresented.)  You wouldn’t do that to a date, why would you do that to a provider?  While it’s true they’re selling a service/product, and the consumer has the right to get what he wants for his money, that doesn’t excuse rudeness or cruelty.  After all, the “product” in this case is a lot closer to home, so to speak, than most things being sold.

eom

Reon't jump to conclusions: This doesn't answer the question (long post)

"Why would molestation and abuse cause this?  It would seem to me, wouldn't this have the opposite effect?  Wouldn't women be so revolted by sex afterward that they would tend to shrink from such professions where sex is at its center?'"

Zin you are thinking to logically in an area that defies logic.  Another Loveline quote:

About a 14-year-old girl whose 25-year-old boyfriend beats her, and whose father beats her mother:

"You know, if she had some math teacher who made her get up in front of the entire class and solve problems at the board, she would NEVER get NEAR another chalkboard, mathbook, or abacus again, EVER. But she can watch her dad beat her mom and then be horribly ATTRACTED to older men who beat her."


Fact is when they say children are impressionable it goes for the good stuff and the bad stuff.  If sexual activity is imprinted on thier brains when young they spend thier life trying to recreate what they think is normal.  If the only attention they get when growing up is abuse they will seek some one who shows them the same kind of attention (abuse).

I am just trying to point out that if not for absent/abusive fathers and pedofile uncles and grandpas our pool of providers would not be as big as it is.  And with the way society is heading there does not look to be a shortage any time soon.

"Moreover, stories of abuse are so common in the general population, and most woman with these experiences never turn to the sex industry.  So you could at least say that there's something else besides abuse going on if some women turn to the sex industry and others don't.  "

I would say the common demoninator of ones who don't turn to the sex industry is that they have gotten some therapy early and often to deal with thier past.

Sedona you are soooo appreciated in many ways.  I thank my lucky stars that I had the opportunity to spend some time with you.  If only it weren't for the 3000 miles between us...

I think in many cases it may be both.  A smart provider will look for something she can honestly compliment you about because it is good for business.  Just as she is likely to see through a phony compliment that you give her you are likely to see through a phony compliment that she gives you.  If you are packing 4 inches and she tells you that you are the biggest she has ever seen you know it is BS. Since a compliment that is perceived to be phony may earn more bad feelings that good it usually is better that they be genuine.

I'm curious. My ATF said this (student loans), and I'm not going to pry, but she tells me she's not working so much since permanently moving to my town. But I can see she's living (at least financially) the good life. From what she's told me about her folks, I'm guessing they're fitting a big part of the bills.

So MY question is: All things being equal, what makes some women become providers to get payed, and some women get "conventional" jobs? I see lots of waitresses, co-workers, etc. who chose this route.

And please don't bother with "Well how do you know these women aren't..." That's not the point.

Also, in some cases, I'd think the reason could be the inability to get a green card. But even then, there are choices...

And your explanation doesn't answer the questions.  

"Zin you are thinking to logically in an area that defies logic."

I have emotions like anybody else; I know what they're like.  No, without a reference to biology and neurology, they are not logical.  But this does not mean that cause you cite for them must be illogical, too.  If it must be, why not substitute another illogical explanation for it?  Perhaps alien abduction?    

"'You know, if she had some math teacher who made her get up in front of the entire class and solve problems at the board, she would NEVER get NEAR another chalkboard, mathbook, or abacus again, EVER. But she can watch her dad beat her mom and then be horribly ATTRACTED to older men who beat her.'"


Might not a brutal, domineering man be somewhat attractive to a woman raised in a violent environment? especially if she thinks she might get some influence over him?  He might be good protection.  Plus, he might give her children more able to survive in violence.  So I could see why it might be perfectly logical to feel attracted physically to such a person, and why sexual attraction would operate that way for that woman.

And let's say that she miscalculates.  He's too brutal.  He beats her. She can't get enough influence over him to stop.  Still, if she leaves him, she has to face a world that she perceives as dangerous without him.  Plus, facing the fact that she failed, and so might not find another "protector."

"If sexual activity is imprinted on thier brains when young they spend thier life trying to recreate what they think is normal."

This is generally true, but only generally.  But how does that apply to an independent provider then?  In what way is she creating something "normal" by the standards in which she grew up?  As we've heard from this forum, they consider abuse from a client to be a grotesque deviation, and not normal for their line of work.  

"I would say the common demoninator of ones who don't turn to the sex industry is that they have gotten some therapy early and often to deal with thier past."

I restrain my immediate four letter gag over this statement.  A lot of women have told me they have had abusive childhoods.  Few of them had psychologists come to the rescue early.  None of those who had psychologists come to the rescue at all seemed to be destined for prostitution.  Almost none of them I know of turned to the sex industry.  Since you don't have logic on your side, you need something else.  My disbelief in what you've said is thick.

Does it occur to you that sex-for-money might be closer to normal, comfortable behavior, and what culture has been doing for last 3000 years with human sexuality is the perversion?  Take this fact: most abuse between the sexes takes place within the context of marriage.  Are providers recreating their familiar environment, or are they creating something better?  I mean, for me, I'm proud that I've never recreated my parents' family in my adult life.
             
/Zin  

I would have to agree with the first paragraph. Personally, that is.  It took me a long time to finally decide to go into this profession (after an extreemly long hiatus-over 20 yrs.).  It is financially lucrative, and let's face it...the physiological clock is ticking, and I thought I'd make hay while the sun shines!  

One more reason that I am out here is that I really enjoy the company of the men.  I guess it does, in many ways, give me a good sense of self worth knowing that I am appreciated, admired, and desired....I sure didn't feel that for the many years I was married.  One contributing factor in my leaving (him) was that I was told very seldom, verbally or otherwise, that I was beautiful.  My former husband (I don't like using the term EX-everyone deserves a name, but I won't use his here!) told me that he didn't want me to get big-headed.  Now, I am no dog.  I know what I look like.  Not a 10, by all means, but at least not sore on the eyes.  I needed affirmation about how I was perceived, inside AND out.  Since my short time back in this line of work, I am getting that.  I do appreciate being told, in whatever way, that I am liked (or loved at a comfortable level) and that my talents are appreciated.  I like to give, and even more when I know that the receiver is happy.  Money alone doesn't cut it.  Been there....done that.  

Another really, really honest reason that I like this profession is....although it's wonderful to be admired, desired, and have all the great sex, the ball is in my court.  There are no strings or games....what a feeling of freedom!  Not only financially, but emotionally and physically.  I can express my sensuality as much as I wish, please others and be pleased, and not feel as though I "owe"....unlike some (outside relationships).  For the first time in probably my life, I can be totally myself.  Well, I guess only when I'm on this side...if you know what I mean.  I only wish that there weren't some other complications involved-like what to tell the (civilian??) people in my life.  I know that if I didn't have certain ties to one certain geographical area, I'd be MUCH busier than I am.  It's a difficult thing to balance, but it is what it is, and I want to make the best of this thing as I can.  And it IS a good thing.

to keep not only the eskimos in the artic warm, but the antartic as well!  You have my nomination for the Noble Peace Prize!

not.  And I hope she will tell me the same.  For me, she doesn't actually have to say it, I can just tell.  But I notice that with many women, it is better to just come right out and say it.  I think they like it better when you actually say the words.

...refreshingly honest and even somewhat touching in an unpretentious way.

I'm not sure I'm qualified to comment as to why women choose this lifestyle. Perhaps some generalizations can be made but I suspect that there may be a number of reasons that are perhaps as varied as the personalities of the participants.

Michelle, as confident as you often come across in your many posts on this board I find it commendable that you would reveal the frailties and insecurities that you sometimes experience. It's a testament to your humanity and genuiness as a person.


It's a hard thing to admit for most, if not all of us, who have at some point in time felt as if we were somewhat on the fringe of society's accepted and revered "norms". "Norms" that some of us might say are rather shallow. Pressure to conform and to live up to certain ideals that are promoted by various facets of our culture and society that often stem from some self serving agenda can be quite unrelenting.

It's a bit of a difficult balancing act to stay focused and not let some of the judgemental absurdities that many of us have to deal with from time to time get to us in ways that can be distracting, exasperating, and even damaging.

I for one appreciate your reference to the healing power of nature. I do a lot of solitary hiking in the local mountains in San Diego county and I find it very nurturing to the soul. Experiencing the beauty of the rather austere landscape in this semi arid region in a solitary way can be very inspiring, very helpful in putting the superficial in perspective.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts



-- Modified on 8/3/2004 2:35:55 PM