Recently while watching the news with me mum! a lady of 82.  She noted that in the interviews with both members of Hezbollah and Isreal ALL spoke perfectly understandable English.  

This after dealing with her Doctor.... who doesn't! Does this strike anyone as a bit upside down?  Really, we seem to not understand that language unites a nation.

your mum who chooses a doctor that does not speak English. Otherwise these anecdotal studies are only good for stacking the deck one way or another.

Seriously, you want stats!?  please be aware that all hospitals REQUIRE interpreters to provide translation services... including Tagalog!  You could be burried with stats... but usually people who make comments this way are not truly interested in stats....  

Oddly enough... I really would not wish to be flying in Canada... official language of aviation is English.... fly into DeGaulle airport in France... you land in English... fly into Dorval  --- Guess what, you speak French...

Go figure... Language either unites a citizenry or divides it... stacking the deck?  trying to unite the citizenry....

With respect to my mom, I think that it is terrible that a woman who sacrificed for this country, during the depression and WWII, always contributed to the society... in her old age, has to deal with trying to communicate her health needs to a person who - may or may not have trained in this country, and may or may not place value on individual human life...  but then again... Do you care --- about your own parents....  ?  

Sorry to be harsh, but to fail to see what is happening to our society... is problematic... and the main reason we have the lackluster leadership so common today....  not funny huh.... so sorry.

-- Modified on 7/27/2006 8:20:35 PM

You're arguing with an alias.  I thought better of you.  As for your mother, kudos for giving a shit; it's getting less and less common.

alias... sad that this one was so shallow - he used an alias...

Providers know my real identity... as when they verify, I provide them with my real life web site.... dangerous.?  I guess, but I do that to provide assurance that I will not be a stalker... as "StalkerBoy"  - that was a really interesting choice of alias... a bit spooky if you ask me!

Shouldn't this post be on the Political board?

Will you?!?!..........please!

So, no, I don't understand that a language unites a nation.  

However, learning other languages never hurts and might really help.

-- Modified on 7/28/2006 2:42:25 AM

Is being built 3 blocks from where I live.  Some people objected to it. Then the more evolved among us tried to understand, put ourselves in the place of a wife and mother who is deaf and being abused and decided to learn some ASL.

TMT  Sometimes Silent in Seattle

I support speaking a 2nd language.  (In point of fact, at one time I spoke fluent French.)  My point is that there should be one language expected to be spoken and written as the language of common everyday commerce and communication.  We no longer have that.... heck, even if it were spanish, at least you could count on it.... what we have is a hodge podge of various languages... and we are expected to understand all of them... rather than have immigrants learn the common language of this country.  Go to anyother country - and try to force English on them.... they do not like it and will tell ya!  Heck, Europe is not a challenge because you will almost always find someone who can speak english.... but go to Japan or China, it is a bit different there!  

Really, guys, I am not talking about something so exceptional - which is why I did not post on the political board - although we have had a similar situation there.... but my mom may be dying... and to have her have to wade through the garbage our political hacks have allowed to happen, is really too much.

As I walk through the campus of the NATIONAL Institutes of Health, I see very few people (of any color) from this country!  Most are of foreign origin.  I can come to one of a couple of conclusions....
1) Kids born and educated here, are not competitive on the world market for scientists...
2) We have given preference to scientists born and educated elsewhere!

In either case - what does this say of our ability or will to provide for ourselves.  

So funny, I'm sorry, I just do  not see the humor.  Fortunately business keeps me in the city that my mom lives in, and I will be able to help her, but why should she be treated this way!?????  

Just converse/command/submit in VERY ribald English; Thank you.

-- Modified on 7/28/2006 8:43:50 AM

Neither does the President.

Why is this a problem that needs to be shared?  It seems to me that she or her insurer should solve the problem by getting another doctor, or a translator.

Have any of these things been tried?  Has she said to anybody except you, "I can't understand what he's saying?"

Of course not, or you wouldn't be posting.   She understands well enough, or she'd have gotten another doctor.

What's really going on here is that she resents that YOU didn't go to medical school to make loads of money, and both of you hate the fact that somebody who talks funny (ie, somebody not like you) is living in the same neighborhood.  Tribalism, pure and simple.  You can dismiss Mexican gardeners (though it's fun to blame them for all your issues) but Indian doctors are more serious.  Those fuckers are smart, and could be dangerous.  They probably worship elephants, too.

Well, relax.  If it wasn't language, you'd find something else to bitch about.

than why the hell are you going to him, and paying him to talk funny to you?

Or is that too much self-reliance for you?

and you're right. Some things are not funny. I'm terribly sorry if I made a humorous statement above. Just trying to get you guys to get along. I know what you mean about healthcare. I have to deal with it all the time with my parents. They just don't understand certain things and it makes my life more stressed, too, but we have to take care of them, eh?

Hugs & kisses (all over),
Ciara

I guarantee that you will hate it.  Certain insurance coverages require that you see your "Gatekeeper" physician to get a referral to see the specialist that you require.  So, you see, you are stuck with who is qualified by the insurance and the referral network... and often that physician is someone who will abide by the dictates of the insurance company, not the best of medical practices...  

I have taught enough medicine to know that the procedure that was used to label my mom as allergic to penicillin was not the best procedure...  

Really, you guys are not fully related to the problem.  Wait & live long enough and you will be!  or if you are rich enough - I guess you won't be.  What I truly find interesting is that the lunies who give us the medicare medicaid mess, are exempt from it, much as they are exempt from social security... our everlovin Congress of the US.   Figure it out.

-- Modified on 7/28/2006 4:57:50 PM

First, my mom, has worked to help Mexican immigrants in this country - with donations and working to provide them with economic assistance and she has also helped teach English to Korean immigrants.  Until a couple of years ago, she volunteered to assist with income tax filings for those who could not afford an accountant and who did not understand the tax code.  

In addition, she has maintained her independance to the age of 82 and still does work for the blind... yea, terribly sorry that she is not a contributing member to a society that is now turning its back on her.

Oh, and as for me not going to med school, I actually did go to grad school in a med school... you know nothing of me.

With respect to the doc, in this instance I am seriously considering several options.  With respect to comfort level?  that is rich.  Sad that you do not quite know how insulting your comments are.

Why post this here?  To warn all of you with aging parents... of the future.  To prepare you, and that assumes that you care for your parents.  I care for mine.  My dad died several years ago.  what was done with resepct to his care was nothing short of criminal at the end.  Fortuantely I was there, and did take the appropriate action, but should not have had to.  

We really do have problems in this country.  and shortly we will not have a country - or at least one with the resolve to defend itself.  

Yea, it is terrible that I would ask for reasonable care delivered in an understandable fashion to my mom, but really, should it require a Ph.D. in pharmacology to communicate with an MD?  if so, why?

Get real - and quit using an alias.

but it also extends to a Senator from  MA with a questionable Death in his background... an ex pres who was really the laughingstock of the world - peanut farmer that he is... to our elite presidential wanna bees... in both the House and Senate... Serious honorable people cannot run, why?  Truth, kills real candidates quicker than snipers in Iraq.  None of these folks impress me with a grasp of even the most elementary of issues in science and technology.  

Our university system is truly broken. and needs repair.  Our heath care is really not working. - (we are steadily decreasing in care as measured by a number of parameters - suicide rate, infant mortality, literacy, average age of mortality... you name it.)  Our infrastructure is in need of upgrade...  and we are more dependant on foreign energy supplies than ever before... sheese... even Brazil can get it together enough to become energy independant... why can't we.

We, who landed a man on the moon, cannot deliver decent health care - to the generation of our parents.  wow, we do owe them.... and how do we repay them?  with doctors and a health care system that shoves them aside.

But hey..... its not your parents - right.  Read this and think, put the facts together and quit thinking emotionally for 2 seconds.

Do they handcuff her to keep her from going to another HMO?

WHY ARE YOU TELLING US THIS, INSTEAD OF JUST ASKING THE NURSE FOR A FUCKING TRANSLATOR??!!

I'll tell you why, BS:  this has nothing to do with taking care of your mother.   All this shit has obvious and simple solutions that don't involve TER.

No, the reason you're posting is to tell us that real Americans are just like you, and anybody who has an accent is a threat to Real Americans.

Well, thanks for sharing, BS.  There's precious few people who came to this country speaking any language you'd recognize.  Your insecurities about people who aren't exactly like you are pathetic.  If you can't get laid, why doncha go knock a few balls around, and see if ya don't feel better in a while?

I truly have no idea what your complaint is. Who is the "we" that won't have a country anymore. Is "we" white people?

Now as regards to healthcare, if you are a Republican, this is the system that you wanted. If you want better healthcare, then pay for it. Otherwise die like all the poor people. If you are a Dem, then I feel your pain. National health is the way to go.

So what options are you considering, like maybe saying, "hey Doc, we can't understand you, will you please get the nurse or write things down...?"

Why is this problem worth writing about here?  What, you want us to sue your insurer?   Why don't you talk to them?

Well, because you're not really concerned about solving the problem.   You just want to tell us how people who don't speak your particular brand of English shouldn't be here - and exactly where would that leave your 82 year old mum?  Like without a doctor, because her son took the wrong turn and went to grad school instead of med school, even when she sent him to the same place, he couldn't figure it out?

What the hell, if you went to grad school in a med school (after of course your tour with the FBI) then I'm sure enough medicine rubbed off on you that you should be taking care of yer mum yerself.... ROFLMAO...this is getting ridiculously funny...who are you telling to get real??

Speaking the same language sure doesn't seem to be uniting Hezbollah and Israel very well.

No, look, we know what you're saying.  You don't like people who don't look or talk like you.  You resent them, because that's the way you are.

So what do you want, we send her doctor back to India?  So healthcare becomes even more expensive?  

You know, English is the language of aviation.  And all those terrorists who flew those airplanes on 9/11 spoke English.  And the Israelis and Hezbollah all speak English.  

Don't you see a pattern here?  It's the English speakers who are always getting the world in trouble!!!

Why are you complaining about that nice doctor who's trying to take care of your mum, but she doesn't have the gratitude or good sense to speak Hindi??   Would you feel better if he were speaking English while he was shooting it out with  your neighbor boys in Iraq?

English doesn't seem to be uniting much of anybody these daye.  I'm guessing that's probably your fault.

and it doesn't seem to be helping them.

All the 9/11 hijackers spoke perfect English, too.  Didn't see to unite them with the rest of us.

Our fucking prisons are full of people who speak nothing but English, and still they do more damage to our country than all the Iraqi insurgents combined.

in a phrase the alpha and the omega. In the end, someone will shout out, "NUKE the fuckers." Then we'll know if both sides understood.

Know any Pakistanis married to an Indian - I do.  Ever met a Soviet... who killed himself after the fall?  I did.  Ever date a Greek... who owned an Italian Restaurant in Athens (GA)? I did.  Ever have someone over to your house to compare the Egyptian pyramids (of her country) to the Mayan pyramids?  I did.

by the way, I hired an Indian MD to work for me once... As I did with an Iranian Veterinarian... Who was on the lam from the Shah's secret police...

Terribly sorry, guess I just don't know enough people from other countries for your tastes...

but you go tell em dude...  IMHO you think you see the "problem" when actually you propagate people not assmilating into the culture... and thereby the problem is perpetuated....  

Assimilation.... I guess you have a problem with that! and would prefer that we create the exact same culture here in the US... as exists elsewhere in the world... where in some instances women are treated as property, if you steal - your hand is cut off, or if you do not have the exact same religious belief - you can be killed... yea.... right.... we would not wish assimilation - we prefer to copy the examples of others.... yea right...

Remember Ghandi?  who inspired his resistance to British rule?  Thoreau....   go figure.  Baby, we are great!  but we are rapidly becoming 2nd class, because we have lost the will to be great.

-- Modified on 7/28/2006 5:37:30 PM

You still need somebody to fucking tell you how to solve your daily issues.

Look, BS, if you don't like swarthy folk, just say so.  You don't need to come up with this elaborate shit about your mother's medical care, how you can't solve your simplest communication problems, and how both Hezbollah & Israelis speak English.   Of course they do - they're not as helpless as you.   But you should notice that a common language does not seem to be uniting them, any more than speaking English improves your reasoning skills.

although not Democratic have a better plan for their citizens (like Sweden) where everyone can attend college and no one has to suffer health-care instability. We still don't have it perfect here, but I guess it could be worse if we lived in third-world countries. I began to appreciate the U.S. more when I lived in another country and pooped over an open hole. Sorry for the graphics but true. I think you could be right about National Healthcare.

Hugs,
Ciara

When did President Bush stop speaking english?

and how does it relate to my ability, and your inability, to solve simple problems without involving the www?

I could be fucking Sophia Loren and still be almost as ignorant as you.

When did he ever start?

had nothing to do with the creation of the current system. Unless you are 80 years old, your parents were part of the generation that started all of this. They were the ones who brought in Nixon two times--and Reagan. They were the ones who consistently voted for the dismantling of the social safety net and the end of the middle class. Clinton wanted to fix health care and was mocked while history now shows us that he was right.

Maybe you should look at why we have (and need) so many drs who came from places such as India that put education as a top priority.


Yes it would be great if the drs who come here to live and work could speak perfect unaccented English, Spanish or what ever language the patient is most comfortable with. The facts are that not everyone has a tallent for languages.

Is it mistreating her to have her going to a dr from India if he is well qualified? As has been pointed out it is quite likely that his nurse has a better understanding of him and maybe even ability to translate your mother's needs to the dr.

I know what dealing with medicare and the hmos is like as I have a father in his 80s and a sister who has some major disabilities. I have also delt with drs from other countries some who are easy to understand others it takes a bit of work and calling in the nurse to help. All in all I have found the care from some of the drs from elsewhere is as good if not better than that from a dr who is home grown.

This is a nation founded and built by immigrants from all over the world. Who is to say which language is the best? If you got down to the nitty gritty why not require everyone living here to speak the language(s) actualy native to this country? Instead those languages are becoming close to extinct.

I am a strong supporter that all children should start learning a second language by the time they are in Kindergarden for that is when it is easiest for the mind to addapt to that. Is that likely to happen with the isolationist type attitude many have today? I think not.

What can we do about it? Try to learn to accept no everyone is the same as us and not everyone has a talent for learning a second language especialy when they arrive as an adult sometimes even middle age to elderly.

I see these political ads wanting to fence in the borders and have the military guarding them and then think of other times I have seen such fences. Ever hear of the Berlin wall? I guess I am worried about history repeating it's self especialy with the eroding of our civil rights as is happening.

What unites a nation is not language but ideals.

about the plight of people such as the ladies whom will be in that shelter. Also for wanting to learn to understand what I have long thought one of the most beautiful languages around. I took ASL in college but wish I had more opportunities to use the language just as I wish I had more opportunities to use my Spanish that I also took from Jr high throuh college.

Cheers to you and those whom are ready to understand and hopefuly help these ladies.

-- Modified on 7/31/2006 8:05:18 PM