We need to do something about that idiot living in the Governor's mansion in Sacramento!

Today, I wake up and listen to the radio, and find out that miserable excuse for a man named Grey Davis has made up his mind, and has set into motion a measure that will raise our DMV vehicle registration fees to an average of $130.00 per year, per car. Now thats an average, depending on the type and year of the automobile in question. Most people I know are paying hundreds of dollars per year already in DMV fees when they buy a new car.

His justification(and before you say it no I did not vote for him) is that the state is out of money and this is one of the only ways to raise revenue. Well, whose fault is that?,

The politicians in control in Sacramento have been spending money like its water. I heard a more appropriate analogy on the radio but I won't disrespect you all by repeating it.

Economy, or no economy, Grey Davis has ruined this states credit rating to Junk Bond  status. As a result of his arrogance and incompetence, California now has the lowest credit rating of any of the 50 states.

What we have is a bunch of corrupt politicians in the capitol who are out for their personal gain, and  they like Davis are going to get away with it while lining their pockets.

I know I digressed a little but after hearing this about DMV fees, I have had it. Grey Davis needs to be taught a lesson. Can you say Enron?

I know that this idea was originally thought of by Pete Wilson. However, cooler heads prevailed and the idea was discarded. Now Davis is going to go through with it. I heard that there are certain Republicans that will take this issue to court. The problem there, is that according to the talk show host, who is also a practicing attorney, this thing will not get in front of a Judge for five years. In the meantime we residents of the Golden State are going to get Royally, screwed.

I encourage all residents of California, of voting age to register if not already, and next time you go to the Grocery store sign the Grey Davis recall petition.

I know there are those that say, it's impossible to recall a Governor, that it's been tried and always failed. Furthermore, even if you succeed, we still don't have any money.

My response to that is, that may be true, however, if you or I perform as imbecilicaly  as he has in our own line of work (assuming we work for someone and are not self employed) we would be fired.

Well folks, in case you have forgotten, Grey Davis works for us. Consequently, as a result of his incompetence he deserves to be fired. Yes  we will still have a money problem, and yes those thieves in Sacramento will probably figure out a way to implement this measure.

I encourage you all again to sign Davis out of office. In addition, flood all you'r state politicans with calls and letters, protesting any kind of an increase in anything much less the DMV fees. They can be voted out of office as well.

The time is now , stand up and be heard.

Thank You.

maybe you should just bribe someone to say they slept with him like you did with Paula Jones.

The Ultra Conservative Car Alarm Salesman who (admittedly)adjusts what he says depending on which audience he is talking to?? Or, the Weight Lifter from Germany who doubles as an Actor?

The fact is that either of these dudes will do what he can to buy the State Mansion, cut the hell out of taxes for his rich buddies, and then leave the rest of us holding the bag of debt without roads, schools, healthcare or any other services.

If making a change would help, I say start at the top!  Regime change the President in Washington who is the cause of budget deficits in ALL 50 states!

As far as who we should elect, anyone can do a better job than Grey Davis. I think Arnold would do a bang up job. I mean hell every one said the same thing about Ronald Regan, both as governor, and as President, and he did a pretty good job. I am white, but I am definitly not rich, and I am tired of having to pay for someone elses mistakes. Thats why I still encourage everyone to sign the recall petition, and get that incompetent bastard out.

Yes we had an election but the law says we have the right to recall if enough of us think we made a mistake, and the votors of this state definitly made a mistake.



-- Modified on 6/20/2003 5:00:25 PM

..unless you live in Wisconsin.  Our property tax bill on a $300,000 house is $7500 per year, and it is likely to go up 15 percent this year. Is there any other area that has a higher rate than that?

Approx. same rate in my town in CT and we have a low mil rate.

G.W.Bush, next year is the election year, go out and tell your friends to vote for the democrats.

As for me, I already sign the recall petition, just waiting for the possible fall referendum on Davis and my likely meaningless vote for Bush.

In the end, it is all about participation and the ballot box.

I could swear that you guys just had an election in which Gov. Davis easily won re-election.  In other words, you already had your chance to remove him from office and you chose not to do so.  He has not committed any impeachable offenses since then, so this recall petition seems to me to be nothing more than an attempt to redo the results of the previous election.  Wait until his term is up and then take action.  Anything else smacks of political hypocracy.  MQ

follow the available means and decide his fate.

There are other recall provisions in other states for lower level office.  The argument about the recall being hypocritical or somehow an assault against democracy just doesn't hold water, JMHO.

Yep, I know we would be in a recession and violent conflict when Bush was (not) elected. Also, I think his having Colin Powell walk out on the world conference on Racism because they DISCUSSED if Isreal was acting with racism against the Arabs had something to do with attacks by exterm Arab elements.

Well I live in Arizona not Ca but Az has lowered it's VLT on vehicles from .024 to .0167 over the last few years.  It was done because we did not need the money.  Oops.  We did.  Lowering these taxes did not boost car sales or reduce car insurance.  It only helped a lobbist controlled state goverment stay in power.  So why would raising these taxes increase car insurance and reduce sales?  VLT is one of the few taxes that are based on a persons ablity to pay.  The poor pay little the better off pay more.  If you can afford a new car I think you will be okay.

Yes By the way, it was Democrated votes that were meaningless in the last election. I think the republican hurt themselves in Ca when the backed a number of anti-Mexican (according to them) referendum. We won't see many Reps in state wide office soon.

too timid and thinks like a bureaucrat.  His vacillation during the 2001 Energy crisis resulting in locking CA into long term high cost energy contract, his deal with Oracle, his high rate of CA government spending compare to the growth of economy, revenue and CA population all point to an inept decision maker only interested in muddling through.

There are more democratic registered voters in CA.  There is no reason why someone more credible like Dianne Feinstein (I doubt that she will run though) or Lt. Gov. Bustamante couldn't win.  (Even though I would like a Republican to win.)

Anyone elected in the recall referendum will only serve through Davis' term.  There are still lots of checks and balances built into the system.  It is time to try new thinking.  Timidity is out.

Anyway, enough politics for tonight, especially since it is a regional issue.  To others that disagree with me, you might be right, I might be wrong.  It is up to the hands of many more CA voters.

Let's all enjoy this weekend even though the weather sucks.

-- Modified on 6/20/2003 8:12:13 PM

Actually, if you listen to Al Rantel on KABC radio in LA he is starting a drive to get a petition to get on the ballet a measure that would limit the DMV fees to $ 1.00.  Kinda like the recall initiative.

Green Davis sucks.

that California NEEDS this money for Public Works construction.  For every dollar that California spends towards Public Works Construction (roadway improvements, traffic signal improvements, etc.), the Federal Government chips in THREE more dollars.  

So, if California slashes its Public Works budget by $3 Billion, for example, the Feds slash theirs by $9 Billion, making for a total loss of $12 Billion!

Unless you want to start driving on roads like those found in Mexico and other third world countries, I would say that you should stop bitching about what will likely cost you no more than 1/2 a session with your favorite provider.

I am no fan of Gray Davis either, but $130 doesn't mean shit to most of us that can afford to hobby.

It will reduce sales because here in CA the vehicle license fee is already not insignificant.  It is presently twice the fee of the second highest state in the country.  And BTW!  He did not double the fee!  He TRIPPLED IT!  So if the current yearly license fee is a thousand......making it three thousand won't effect sales?

I was thrilled when the taxes were lowered a couple of years back, but I'm still paying $2k annualy for my car tags.  When they triple I'm going to register them at my vacation home in another state.

I've heard all about the political astuteness of Calif. voters living just across the border in Arizona, but this is about the most Jack Ass thing I have ever heard.  Your state is almost 30 billion dollars under water, much of which comes from Federal unfunded mandates, I think that Government is republican, your schools are in desperate shape because of a Republican freeze on property taxes years ago and you complain about a $130 DMV fee.  So if Davis gets re-called you get what, a conservative republican governor that will take the US Attorney Generals campain for morals to a new level in Calif.
I would say that would be real good for this hobby.

By the way average DMV in Arizona is about $275.00 per year but we have a balanced budget.

SlowStart

-- Modified on 6/20/2003 11:38:14 PM

Not sure you understand how property tax works in California but in Southern California it is 1.25% of Sales Price to start which on your $300,000 figure would equate to $3,750.

Frankly I think Grey Davis is a jackass and some of the anti business bills that the legislators are passing and he is signing will screw up the economy for years.  However I am not fond of this recall because I believe this type of procedure was intended to remove a governor where strong evidence of corruption or similar shortcomings have been present.  They may be present in this case but no one has presented the evidence to the public or a court. I think using these procedures in an inappropriate manner tends to weaken our democracy.  In this case the Republicans are trying to do it to the Democrats.  In New Jersey the Democrats did it to the Republicans when they replaced a senate candidate after the deadline had passed for replacing that candidate because the Democratic candidate was losing the election.  I guess politicians will be politicians.

several times in our nation's history The "electoral college" vote has differed from the popular vote. The Bush/Gore election is the most recent and cogent example of the fact that it has nothing to do with the nation's participation at the ballot box. The Davis recall is another example; voters have spoken and now there is a recall petition... the voice of the voter has become more meaningless in the process, and that is troublesome to me.

I will tell you that I have asked the political affiliation of every petition holder I have met (I have counted it's 20) and 18 of them were conservative/republican. Two of them became offended at my asking, amd refused to tell me. That's fine, but even if one assumes that they were liberal/democrat (which is a strech I'm willing to grant), the stats still bear out to this being a political issue. The GOP controls the white house and currently both houses of congress and more than likely in due time the supreme court (the most important body in our federal govermant IMHO). On top of that they control just about every major govonership in the country. So pardon me for being a little suspect of this recall petition. As the policies have of the white house struck me as very federalistic for a "states rights" party (except in Presidential elections of course)

Of course GC you're the best...I just love the debate. We are agreeing on one thing, the weather has sucked.   LR

-- Modified on 6/21/2003 3:21:52 AM

Gray is not exactly the brightest bulb out there, but he's not the dimmest (a former governor of Texas comes immediately to mind). What has happened in CA, and elsewhere, is that state budgets did not anticpate the outright looting of the US Treasury by said former governor of Texas' cronies, including inventing that lame WMD excuse and letting his daddy's cronies black sheep brother take out the WTC on 9/11. If Hillary runs, it's because she believes W is through (which I think he is because this Weaponsgate deal is only just starting); the original plan is for her to wait until 2008.

Because of the collapse of the high tech industry (some would call it a shakeout, and they may well be right)tax revenues are substantially lower than expected. Myself, I did what most everyone else in LA did, and bought a house in Vegas which is where I now set up shop. Vegas culturally will never be confused with SF, LA or NY, but I'm comfortable living here and I have a great house in a good neighborhood at a fraction of what I'd pay in LA.

Politically, I used to be Republican, until Trent Lott, Tom DeLay, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, and that certain political family from Massachusetts and Texas convinced me otherwise. While some confuse them with totalitarian figures like Hitler and Mussolini, whatt hey really want to do, and they're having great success with it, is to bring back the Confederacy. Let'em secede, if you ask me.

Based on what I paid last year, your property taxes where I live in New York would be $9,672 for your $300,000 house. We also get stung a little on sales taxes. Whenever my boss (who lives in Wisconsin) visits New York, he spends a lot of time complaining about high New York sales taxes.

Grey Davis is a Democrat.  The property tax freeze that you're talking about was not initiated by a Republican but by referendum, a direct vote of the people.

Okay I think I have to agree.  If he tripled the license tax on vehicles that will have an affect.  You should be happy it should get him kicked out of office.  Yes AZ is second only to CA in license tax.  I can not imagine paying three times as much as I did last year.  No wonder you guys are screaming.  You will have to do what eveyone else in CA is doing move to AZ.  Good news.  We have some excellent women in Phoenix.

Bad news for you.  AZ and CA are both very sensative to out of state plates.  AZ has a hotline so the neighbors can report each other.

Some people complain about the property taxes on their $300,000 house...

...those of us who live in Manhattan fantasize about the notion of owning property that can be purchased for $300,000...

...and yet others long for the day when they had the obligation of paying property taxes, versus their current homeless state.

It is all a matter of perspective. Me...I try to count my blessing no matter how many or how few.

Our state is in deep sh*t because they became overly dependent on the taxes on stock profits. They're all gone now. While I agree cutting (especially trimming the bloated management) is the wise move, it's not going to save $35 billion. And it wouldn't matter who the Governor was. Davis did freak out during the energy crisis, sign stupid contracts, then, when he realized what he'd done, went to the courts to bail him out. He did prove he's not a leader when times are tough. The problem with the Repubs is that they don't have any experienced candidates with any name recognition. They screwed up running Simon instead of Riordan. Anyone who comes out anti-abortion (stupid because the Gov has no say in it) has no chance - Simon actually did well to only lose by 4%. I don't see Arnold (he's from Austria by the way - for whoever said he was from Germany) getting elected. No experience. Both parties are too cowardly to address the problems with illegal immigration and the huge drain on resources that come with it.

Where did you get the $130.00 quote?. We're talking $500.00 to register my 02 VW Golf next year. Just because a guy participates in the "Hobby" doesn't mean he is necessarilly in the top 1% of annual incomes. This jump in the vehicle tax is going to take a BIG WET BITE out of my ass as well as the asses of millions of 'working' Californians who truly need a dependable vehicle to do their work with or merely get them to work.
   California has more registered cars burning "Taxed" fuel than probably any other State. We should concern ourselves with weeding out the "Tax & spend" polititions who can't manage the incredible revenues already being collected rather than worry about some federal subsidy lost for money NOT being spent.

....what's likely to bite Californians in the ass more than the increase in DMV fees is a bill which received no publicity but has already passed the State Assembly & ready for a Senate vote to make it a law.  Once passed it will allow cities to also impose an income tax on all residents...that has the potential of ultimately making the increase in DMV fees look like chump change.  There are plenty of examples to prove that once tax measures are passed most have a way of becoming permanent fixtures.  Give 'em money & they'll find something to spend it on, wastefully all too often.

Sure the politicos try to explain the reasons & say the money will be spent this way or that.  But take a look at our gasoline taxes as an example of how much those promises can be trusted.  I believe we still pay the highest in the nation, yet our roads (once the envy of most other states) are turning to shit.  There was a time when those monies could be spent on nothing else, but that was changed during Jerry Brown's time in office & they've been deteriorating ever since.  Just one example, yet the voters continue to approve similar measures when promised the funds will be spent only a certain way.    

I don't like Gray Davis for a lot of reasons, nor did I like anyone who ran against him.  Sign the recall petition or don't, but it's not only a governor that we should all be concerned with.  Personally I detest the manner in which taxes & various other 'fees'...call them whatever you will, tribute to the emperor if you want...are imposed without sufficient advance publicity for the public to voice a protest.  Anytime I see this happening I let the elected representatives from my area hear from me loudly & clearly that their support of any such measure will result in them not receiving my vote at any time in the future.  

"I believe this type of procedure was intended to remove a governor where strong evidence of corruption or similar shortcomings have been present.  "

So Stumpy, can we take that to mean if you were the owner of a business and you found your CEO to be incompetent, as long as he was not corrupt, you would keep him on?

I think it appropriate to clarify a few things that I said in my initial post.

First of all, I put this post here because although it is a national board, it is the only board dedicated to "General Discussion" as opposed to the regional boards which are dedicated to the Hobby as opposed to anything else. At least that's  the way I have always understood it.

For those who claim recalling Davis smacks of hypocrisy, as some one else pointed out the California Constitution allows the residents of this state that option if they are disatisfied with the performance of any politician. Gray Davis is doing a lousy job and he needs to go. To those who say wait and see if enough signatures are gathered. Well, although the minimum number of signatures has not yet been reached, it has been projected that based on the amount collected thus far, the minimum might very well be reached by the deadline.

I agree that it is too bad that with the exception of Impeachment we can't recall George W. I wish we could recall George W, his brother Jeb, and while we are at it lets discard the electoral college. This is an outdated method of election that the politicans want to keep only because they like it.

But I digress, yes Davis trippled DMV fees. This will result in an AVERAGE increase of $130.00 per person. Thats an average, some people already pay considerably more.

Some people say that we need the money for roads, etc. Some say that its only 1/2 a session for most pepole. Well unlike some of the more well heeled members, some of us can only afford to visit a providor once maybe twice a year. $130.00 can buy me a lot of things, a weeks worth of groceries, my DWP bill, my phone bill, my medical insurance bill the list goes on, and on. Which is why I say its all the more reason to legalize the hobby. Although, now that I think about it how could they tax it? For example if you go to the Doctor, and you pay his or her bill, there is usually no tax on it. If you call your plumber and have him or her repair your sink your bill will usually be broken down into two categories parts and labor. Parts will be taxed, labor will not. Why? because in California at least labor is not taxable, and since a providors stock in trade is for the most part one of labor, how will the state tax this activity.

Some people say that we can afford it because we need money for roads. I for one am tired of paying for the mistakes of politicians.

All politicians, of any party, of any level of government are paid way too much money and are given way too many perks.

In my opinion we need to find people that are willing to serve without compensation. Then we might get some honest people running things. I know I'm going to catch hell for this but oh well.

Thanks

-- Modified on 6/21/2003 3:13:22 PM

Hopefully as the owner(the voters) of the business after watching the incompetence of my CEO for several years I would not give (elect) him a new multi-year contract.  And if the voters of California did not realize the man was incompetent after his first term then the voters are the incompetent ones.

But I'm too radical to be elected.  And if I was I'd probably be assassinated my first year in office.

Yours and mine!!  My federal taxes are way more than my state taxes.  We'd be better off without the federal highway matching funds.  The state of California collects the federal gas tax and sends it off to Washington.  They keep a cut and then send  back what's left with strings attached.

I'm right behind you Nicole; "Legalization" of the hobby would distroy it as we have come to know and love it.(you forgot to mention how much more 'Income taxes' you and your sisters would be paying)

 Finding people to serve without compensation is not far fetched but not a good idea either. Most of the high level "Public servents"(is that a oxymoron??)are quite wealthy before they recieve their first paycheck from the voters. Truth be known they make a lot more money by voting how their constituants WISH them to vote(dare I say "Graft"). Most high level polititions walk out of office MUCH wealthier than their salary would or could have ever made them. NOT paying a salary to these public servants would however only insure that only the rich elitist class of our society could or would seek public office.

  Does Cynicalman have any answers to the problem?. Not unless you consider a "Tall tree and a Short rope" an answer.

Once again gang "IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY"

 Cm.

P.S. I wish to thank you Nicole for your recent & kind counsel on behalf of my "author"..."Pretty lady" you're the best!
                                              Cm.

No Shit!!! Illegal immigration is going to bankrupt this State and then the Nation. Our warm & fuzzy, touchie-feelie, "it's for the children" globalist social political climate has backed us into a financial corner and not one politition has the stones to upset California's "new" racial majority and say ENOUGH!.
  There is a KNOWN cop killer harbored in Mexico presently. The authorities know his whereabouts but the Mexican Gov't won't extradite. Not one elected(U.S./Californian)official has stepped up to bat on behalf of justice for the family of the slain(Californian)police officer. On the other hand; The Mexican Gov't wants a Riverside deputy Sheriff's ass for "roughing up" one of their precious illegal border hopping felons. The Sheriff is under tremendous heat and the cop killer goes about his merry way.  

    Am I the only one who sees something wrong here???

 ThePatriot.

and, yes, I am an elitist if that means supporting legislation that will protect my business interests.  

Regarding California, until we wake up and realize that we are supporting the union and not getting our fair shake, we will continue to take it in the ass.

Now if you have a petition for me to sign for secession, I'll be the first to sign.

Not to mention the overturning of propositions in California by our brain dead state supreme court!

I say leave the liberals in office until they totally destroy California, which by the way is very probably within Gray;s second term.

Look at this smuck, he tenders a new budget for 2004 with a 4% increase in state spending and calls it a deep cut in his budget.  The man is a moron, upheld by his fellow democratic morons in the state assembly , state senate and courts.  

Save your money, when California crashes (a no brainer), cash will be king.