I can't tell you how many married gentlemen I have spent time with that tell me....

" I used to have the best sex life with my wife, then we had kids, she never want's it anymore, I never get blow jobs." ( generalizing but you get the story)

Before I was a provider I thought this was an excuse men used. Now I know it's the truth! But then I ask... "Have you told her how unfulfilled your are sexually? That you are starved of your basic human need? And the answer is always NO!

So here is the question....

* Why are men so afraid to tell their wives this? I'm an extremely sexual creature. But when I hit menopause or god forbid am stricken with some sort of ailment and neglect my significant other (because we are all human and fall short) I hope I have a partner to step up and communicate his needs, wants and desires to me.  

* What can I do as a woman to create an open (sexually) line of communication between me and the man in my life? Because I think you should be telling these women how you feel. I think its ridiculous for a wife neglect you sexually but then act bewildered when you leave her for Suzy. The sexy vixen that works at the reception desk that likes sex a lot!

Thanks Guys

Who told you men are afraid to tell their wives of their sexual need? Some may but I doubt this is the case unless these men are dependent on their wives for their basic needs.

Open communication doesn’t fall from the sky and say, go ahead, your are now openly communicating. Setting aside, all the psycho gable about open communication and positive impractical thinking, a thing called reality creeps in. In some cases men decide, they a lot to loose and discussion of reality and facts may end up in divorce, financial ruin and destruction of the family unit (if children are involved).

While thinking these issues individually seem that men are scared and lack open communication, the gray area in these scenarios are as large as the gray sky. Of course, psycho gablers have the perfect solution and some medication.

Posted By: VanessaDarling

I can't tell you how many married gentlemen I have spent time with that tell me....

" I used to have the best sex life with my wife, then we had kids, she never want's it anymore, I never get blow jobs." ( generalizing but you get the story)

Before I was a provider I thought this was an excuse men used. Now I know it's the truth! But then I ask... "Have you told her how unfulfilled your are sexually? That you are starved of your basic human need? And the answer is always NO!

So here is the question....

* Why are men so afraid to tell their wives this? I'm an extremely sexual creature. But when I hit menopause or god forbid am stricken with some sort of ailment and neglect my significant other (because we are all human and fall short) I hope I have a partner to step up and communicate his needs, wants and desires to me.  

* What can I do as a woman to create an open (sexually) line of communication between me and the man in my life? Because I think you should be telling these women how you feel. I think its ridiculous for a wife neglect you sexually but then act bewildered when you leave her for Suzy. The sexy vixen that works at the reception desk that likes sex a lot!

Thanks Guys

This pretty much was the scenario with my marriage.

I did frequently and forcefuily convey my dissappointment with my wife's lack of willingness to engage sexually with me, to no avail.  She just ignored me and accused me of being a sex fiend.  (I'll wear the title if wanting sex once a week fits.)

So, hobby here I come again.

In the final analysis, I don't think my (now ex) wife enjoyed sex with me.  She was poor and I was wealthy, and I think she saw me as her vehicle to a better life, at least in terms of material possessions.

So we split, and despite the numbing cost, I think it was for the best because now I am much happier if less affluent.

I guess it is true what is said about divorce:  The reason it costs so much is because it is worth it.

My SO doesn't like sex and isn't passionate. Nor does she like to experiment in anything but the basics. She is very happy with this and our marriage. We have had several discussions on it (maybe every 2-3 years) and she will be a little more passionate for a few weeks, but then go back to her old ways. She will not ever try anything new. After too many years of this, I have decided that I will not let her lack of interest or imagination limit my sexual interests, so I hobby. Pretty simple.

She went from 135 lbs to 305 lbs. She does not like doing blow jobs and she does not do anal. Hate to say it but I find providers to be more attractive. I also have more intense orgasms. We have sex a few times a week, I schedule my sex at home around the sex I have with providers.

I don't, for one second, believe that the wives don't know what they have done to their SO's. They know full well but rarely do they want to sit down and talk about it. It's a unilateral choice on their part and it could be for any reason. It is so sad for the partners of these ladies. It has made me realize why some guys are mad at women, and I am being serious. It makes sense perfect sense.

Sometimes it's just best to do a work around and leave well enough alone. Or, leave, but the choices out there with relationships are pretty much the very same thing...sex for a while and then the rapid decline.

I am married almost two and a half decades, and still consider my wife to be the best friend that anyone, myself included, could ever imagine or deserve.

I let your question stew for awhile, and still cannot come up with a better or more reasoned answer than "I just got tired of hearing "no" and having to work so hard for it."  And when the answer was "yes", it became just straight sex, borderline boring.  It really isn't any more complicated or deep than that.  

Much easier, and sexually gratifying, to drop a few bills and have the answer always be "yes", and have the experience be what I actually need.  I am a very strong believer in the ATF thing, seeing the same women repeatedly and knowing eachother's wants and needs in bed, a surrogate wife in terms of the sex and intimacy ONLY for as long as she continues to be a provider.  I have three go-to women for this reason, knowing how frequently and how abruptly women drop out.

And no need to get nasty on the "surrogate wife" thing people (although some undoubtedly will...), I understand completely it is a business relationship and temporary (as are most marriages these days, for that matter).  If you didn't understand my point the first time you read it....try "treat eachother physically and emotionally with the same level of respect and caring that you treat your SO" as opposed to "some chick I grab off the internet and pay a few bills to get my rocks off".  To each his own - I just prefer establishing the former with a select few women and occasionally mixing in something new for variety and to plan for the eventual departure of the ATFs.

For me the pleasure of sex is not there if my partner is now into it.  My wife would do what I wanted but would do it as a favor to me.  (She once became very upset when I suggested, and she agreed as a favor to me. to us shaving our pubic hair, used words like rape etc  --and really I do not push or even coax anyone --wife, friend with benefit, provider-- into anything she doe not seem into.  I know providers can not always be into it, but they have always managed to make me feel the experience,even if only for the money and the conversation, was a positive one.  (There was one notable exception who tho she squirted every time and was very sexy, made it clear her visits to me were for the money and not very pleasant for her. She also clearly did not like me, so we had two visits and I just did not repeat.) I have friends with benefits who look forward to seeing me and providers who find some pleasure or satisfaction in our contacts..  
My wife would do what I wanted AS A FAVOR AND DUTY. I simply could not get into her blow job as a favor, our DATY as a favor, even her vibrator induced climax as a favor or fulfillment of a duty to me.  This would take years of therapy to (maybe) change ,there is no discuss that would changed the reality, so there we are.

Marriages encompass so many issues, it's not even funny. Many men and women both communicate every day, yet nothing gets done. We communicate in different ways though. Guys generally don't start acting out as to manifest a result they are hoping to garner, whereas many women do just that lol. If I am mad in real life, it's not like on TER. I don't just go spouting off what I think, or voice what I want done. I throw little hints, like slamming doors, stomping around, and think the men should somehow read my mind.

Many men would still cheat regardless of what the wife was doing, so you can't blame your actions and decisions on another person...same goes for women. If you're unhappy, leave. I realize that becomes difficult when you have a house and children you share with someone, but the excuses get old. I have a feeling many wives are not exactly happy either, but they are not on TER...yet.

This is a second marriage for both of us.  After her first husband passed...  she was celibate for 5 years.  I thought it was because she had young children.  In reality, even then she could take it or leave it attitude.  Her daughter proceeded to try to break us up & one way was to prevent our having privacy.  She announced she could hear everything in our ajoining bedroom.  There was no sex in our bedroom for the next 12 years...  once a year on an annual vacation.  When the dear child went off to school things improved briefly...  but it reverted after a few months.  
If I suggest or attempt any type of intimacy, I get the avoidance routine.  On rare occasions when she agrees to sex, it's by prior appointment, after midnight (worst time for my medical condition) and only the minimum and hurry up & get it over.  She has NEVER initiated sex in 24 years of marriage.
Yes, I have brought it up, she says she understands but the avoidance does not change.  I am trapped.  I can't leave...  but I look forward to the next chapter in my life.

As for the hobby...  I started about 5 years ago (married 19 years at that point).  My medical condition is progressive and it is likely that my sexual abilities will completely disappear at some point.  I realized that there were experiences I had NOT had & would not unless I went outside.  So I have.  

Yes, it is ridiculous.  The same wife that has no interest in our physical needs...  touching, carressing, enjoying the pleasure of another, cuddling, and yes, sex...  but objects most strongly to 'phone a friend' lifeline.   I may not speak for anyone but myself...  but I think there are more than will admit it on this venue...   If my wife would be open to sex on a regular basis...  I would not hobby.  I'll even say once a week (which is not frequent).   Even with the limited menu.  

I really think the is something wrong with the way women are taught to think.  They know about sex.  They use it to get the guy (as my first & to a limited degree the second).  They use sex to get their babies which many have a biological need to do.  But they don't know or want to know that men's sex drive is life long & if you want to keep his heart...  you need to drain his balls.  EVERY hobbiest knows about the post-coitial hormones that sweep over us...  (I should have known before my first...  so my education was lacking too!)  These hormones are what keep us connected.  

Like I said, perhaps I'll do better in the next chapter of my life...  with someone who understands.  
I'm out of words...
skb  

       

Why can't you leave? How are you trapped? Just curious, but if you realized this in the first few years, why stay for the next 22 years? I guess I just don't get why people stay in marriages they are unhappy in. Not judging, but I simply don't get it. If a guy annoys me, I leave. If I hate my job, I quit when a better offer comes along. I am not saying to just walk out on anything and everything that causes us a little discomfort, but the general theme here is YEARS of misery. Why would anyone stay in a life that miserable?

There are a zillion benefits of marriage.  It's great to have a constant companion and best friend.  My wife is the best.  She's also great at sex, gives me BJs all the time, and  is really good-looking.

So why would I ever want to pay some stranger for sex?

I like variety.  

I like movies too.  I have seen some great movies. I own copies of many of them on DVD.

But who wants to watch the same movie over and over and over again?

I like variety.  I think all guys do.  I think all people do.

It's too bad that sex and marriage are so intertwined.  Why is it OK to go play tennis with one of my wife's friends but not have sex with her?




-- Modified on 2/17/2013 5:37:10 PM

If my marriage was not a source or satisfaction I would wait two more years until our youngest graduated from college and leave on the best terms possible.  But i understand from your notes that I try never to miss reading that you understand human relations so I am sure you know how much more there is to married life than a sex life (tho that can be very important.) I am happily married just not sexually happy.  My wife and I communicate well on matters of money, vacations, life style, raising kids, even each of our very busy careers. The lack of a satisfactory sex life alone is not a reason for destroying our happy marriage.  I have three friends with benefits who are in a similar situation and occasionally I see a provider, so while things are not as I would have designed them, I am satisfied.  The rest of my marriage is quite happy.  
I am not capable of enjoying sex when done as a favor to me; so tho my wife would do what I wanted it would be as a favor and that would be empty for me.  
I am blaming no one since there is no blame to go around.  

But it's not just women who do not want to experiment and/or lose interest in sex.  You get the impression it is a one way street because of your involvement in the hobby.  

Posted By: VanessaDarling

I can't tell you how many married gentlemen I have spent time with that tell me....

" I used to have the best sex life with my wife, then we had kids, she never want's it anymore, I never get blow jobs." ( generalizing but you get the story)

Before I was a provider I thought this was an excuse men used. Now I know it's the truth! But then I ask... "Have you told her how unfulfilled your are sexually? That you are starved of your basic human need? And the answer is always NO!

So here is the question....

* Why are men so afraid to tell their wives this? I'm an extremely sexual creature. But when I hit menopause or god forbid am stricken with some sort of ailment and neglect my significant other (because we are all human and fall short) I hope I have a partner to step up and communicate his needs, wants and desires to me.  

* What can I do as a woman to create an open (sexually) line of communication between me and the man in my life? Because I think you should be telling these women how you feel. I think its ridiculous for a wife neglect you sexually but then act bewildered when you leave her for Suzy. The sexy vixen that works at the reception desk that likes sex a lot!

Thanks Guys

It is the old style morality that is killing relationships. Marriages don’t last happily till death do us part. Realized this after five years of my marriage, by then other responsibilities piled up. Could have walked away but that would have been irresponsible and would have affected some young lives.

Not the right thing to do so, found alternatives to satisfy my needs and never looked back. No guilt whatsoever, it is simply the practical thing to do.

If that is true?  Sex with your husband will not satisfy that rebellious desire.

You wrote, "Sex is not a reason to destroy an otherwise happy marriage...it's important, but not end all be all," yet you are seeing escorts for sex? Is that NOT risking destroying a happy marriage by doing so?  How does that not present a contradiction in this case? If she found out you were seeing escorts, would that not destroy your marriage? I am not trying to be difficult, but if you say sex is not worth ending a marriage over, but you're still finding ways to get it behind her back, how is it NOT that important?

I hear the same things over and over from men about how they marry women who do not satisfy them sexually, yet they stay and just cheat whilst she is left at home thinking everything is on the up and up. So, on one hand you have men saying they will DIE without sex, and others who say it's not important in a marriage, yet they do most anything to get it outside.

I have also heard the term "It's cheaper to keep her" which I find most appalling. If the only reason a man is staying is because of money, he really does not deserve any better.


-- Modified on 2/17/2013 11:58:03 AM

"Without my wife, where would I be? I am not a rich guy." Well, if she catches you cheating, you will be alone and miserable anyway, so again...I don't get it. You hold on to her for your security and get your sexual needs met with hookers...yea, I get it, but will she? Would you be angry if she up and left you for her Dentist if she caught you seeing escorts?

I get why people stay, but then again I don't. It seems to be a weakness. "I can't leave because I can't afford to live on my own." Sorry, but that's not a man in my book..that is a coward holding on to a woman to pay half of his bills, be his best friend, support system, and still fking around on her.

Not talking about you, but in general. I am sure for many wives, it's not all peaches and roses staying with the same man, picking up his shit, and STILL being faithful through all of that. I would just leave.





-- Modified on 2/17/2013 12:06:31 PM

Like he said, some people can afford to divorce because they are rich. Others who divorce it means financial ruin Much cheaper to hobby than make divorce lawyers rich.

Being in California divorce is pretty simple. Everything is split right down the middle leaving most couples both devestated financially. I have seen many times in my business and I know after 25 years of marriage it does kind of morph into a business arangement. Sad but true.

My wife is very attractive and I have many times brought up the lack of sex issue and after menopause she says its just not an interest for her. No kissing. No Daty (she even let her bush grow to epic heights to discourage me). A very unenthusiatic BJ not to completion. So she gets off with her vibrator then rolls over for some spooning/sex. OH boy! I call it pity sex.

So here is the question....

* Why are men so afraid to tell their wives this?

Here is my answer....

I had no fear. I told her that, and didn't bitch either. I told her that I desired HER. She was my fantasy and my reality, and it was so hard to not have what I wanted and needed so badly.

Didn't make one iota of difference.

She told a marriage therapist who specialized in sex relations that everything was great and she was totally satisfied. (this was true as she LOVED to be eaten, told me what she liked and I did that to earth shattering results.)

But she didn't like sucking cock. (no hygiene or other issues) She felt it was a man's job to make sure that he was satisfied; and that I had to fuck her for that.  ...OK, so be it. BUT....

She also liked sex 2 to 4 times a month MAX, and initiated it as well. But other than that wanted to be left alone. Flowers, romance, doing little things, sending her to the spa.... NOTHING helped. She just though I wanted too much sex, which I tried and failed to negotiate up to a measly twice a week. That's compared to the 1 to 3 times a day before we were married and had kids.

That sucked, and it went on for years until we split.

I told her how I felt. She didn't give a rat's ass.

I may be cynical, but I believe many women, when single "and looking" are disingenuous about how much they like sex, because they don't want a guy to lose interest. Then once the cow is paid for, the milk supply slows down.

.........Seriously, this is not a flame but I am genuinely curious.  You post that you have a great wife, good looking, great sex, best friend, etc, does she know you are participating in P4P?  If she does, more power to you since you would seem to have the ideal woman if she is OK with an "open" relationship in addition to all her other qualities.  But, if she does not know, what do you think it would do to your great marriage if she found out?   Also, (and I don't wish to assume too much about your marriage vows) but it is probably the case that you did not make vows to her that addressed playing tennis with her friends, sex with them, yeah, different story.

Well, at least he is honest lol. Gotta at least respect him for that. I don't get why men get married to begin with, but then again..yes I do. Many need the "security" of a companion, a best friend, etc. and can't stand on their own..yet they can't be faithful either.

I took a long hard look at myself and made the decision that I am better off single. Why? Because I DO NOT need security from another human being...that comes from within and for some, in their faith. I also get bored very quickly if a guy is up my ass all the time...can't live with anyone, and never really have been able to do that. Knowing these things about myself, I am not going to go and sucker some sap into marrying me, just so I can feel better about myself and have another income to fall back on. Many people today, are outright weak when it comes to being so damned needy. They can't leave a mate because it's "easier" to stay, and at the same time, they can't honor the promises they made.

I can totally see how sex with the same person would get old after so many years...hell, it gets old for me after even one year. Has nothing to do with how many new things you try either...it is still the same person. Knowing that, I will probably stay single forever unless I can find a guy who agrees to have two houses and only see me on weekends lol.

For some of us it is not just sex, not just money, or kids, or bills. It is all if the above.

When you feel like you have a roommate its time to start putting your ducks in a row, sell off properties  pay off some bills, finish school, whatever it is. Do everything possible to keep the children out if it and know they are loved. Then move on.

I am no 20 something either but I believe in myself  and my ability to succeed and have never really had a problem findings someone to date.

It is not a simple process of just leave, the real world doesn't work that way.

First if all, I might be risking my marriage tho I doubt it.  I am not jealous and my wife has a full professional life of her own.  I have never asked if she has ever had an affair.  I do not believe what I am doing is participatory wrong.  If I did not have the outside interests, I am not sure the marriage would be happy or even durable.
I am very discrete and she has never inquired.
We could go back and forth about dishonesty and risk; you are not being wrong or difficult to point out the inconsistencies, but this is the compromise with reality I have chosen and for decades it has worked.

Hi Johnny,

Fair question.  In fact, she did find out.  I made no secret of the fact that I was hanging out with hookers.  (We both have lots of interesting friends with interesting professions). But yea -- it got a little weird when she found out that I was a sometimes client (no woman admires that, not even hookers; they think it's sleazy and desperate no mater how you slice it), and when it was revealed that I had an emotional relationship with one woman that I met, then it really became a problem. It was basically an affair.  And that's never OK.

If you had had an affair with your someone at the office, your wife would not be very happy with you staying late at the office, or hanging out at office parties with all the single women, right?

For the same reasons, my wife does not allow me to hang with hookers any more.  And she still thinks it's sleazy for guys to have to pay for sex. She takes particular delight in telling me that.  She also reminds me of how stupid it was to get romantically involved with someone the way I did -- she thinks in doing so I jerked that woman around. And maybe I did. The blowup was pretty awkward.

Live and learn.

I totally get what you're saying, London.  I used to think like you.  I had friends for sex, and friends for going out, and friends for confiding. I had everything I thought I wanted, and never had an urge to get married.

Then I was lucky enough to find one person who fulfilled all my needs. And in doing so, fulfilled needs I never even knew I had.  That was cool.  I still think it's cool.

It's a great partnership.  But yea -- every partnership requires compromises.  Whether we make those compromises or not... well, I think that's exactly what a lot of guys here struggle with.

It just feels good.

The topic was why wifes, do not want to have sex...

so, it just feels good dosen't make much sense, does it ?

In a nutshell...

http://i.imgur.com/XFe8qC3.gif

religions, Feminist groups, and all of society's mores (Yes I'm gonna take that liberty just this once) I'll even put a word in for you to the man upstairs whenever you meet him.

We are gonna give you a pass on this one! In fact, if your ever in PR I'll pay for a lady for you myself.

NO ONE should have to go through what you described for heavens sake!

..."I may be cynical, but I believe many women, when single "and looking" are disingenuous about how much they like sex, because they don't want a guy to lose interest. Then once the cow is paid for, the milk supply slows down."...

The disingenuousness of this is what makes me so mad...and it's not only straight women who pull this shit, the gay ones can be just as bad.  Fuck like crazy for 6 to 12 months and then next to nothing....AND then have the lady balls to admit.."Oh I am into it for the first little while but then I lose interest".

The fraudulent bitches on both sides need to fess up in the beginning or deal with the consequences.

But only as long as I am INTO my partner.

sometimes the "into" stage can last a week, sometimes a month, sometimes years.

there is nothing disingenuous about it ..  

Now, if I were going into relationship with full knowledge at time X I will stop being active participant  then it is disingenuous.  I grant you there are definitely women who have that approach to relationships.

Although it is not as common. There are some wives out there who feel the same way. Their men have lost interest as they aged. I know of a few, not many, but they do exist. Viagra and testosterone medicine has greatly changed the playing field between the sexes. But to say this is only a problem for men is simply not true.

Posted By: swingsbothways

But it's not just women who do not want to experiment and/or lose interest in sex.  You get the impression it is a one way street because of your involvement in the hobby.  

Posted By: VanessaDarling

I can't tell you how many married gentlemen I have spent time with that tell me....

" I used to have the best sex life with my wife, then we had kids, she never want's it anymore, I never get blow jobs." ( generalizing but you get the story)

Before I was a provider I thought this was an excuse men used. Now I know it's the truth! But then I ask... "Have you told her how unfulfilled your are sexually? That you are starved of your basic human need? And the answer is always NO!

So here is the question....

* Why are men so afraid to tell their wives this? I'm an extremely sexual creature. But when I hit menopause or god forbid am stricken with some sort of ailment and neglect my significant other (because we are all human and fall short) I hope I have a partner to step up and communicate his needs, wants and desires to me.  

* What can I do as a woman to create an open (sexually) line of communication between me and the man in my life? Because I think you should be telling these women how you feel. I think its ridiculous for a wife neglect you sexually but then act bewildered when you leave her for Suzy. The sexy vixen that works at the reception desk that likes sex a lot!

Thanks Guys

Most people love the beginnings of new relationships, but change over time. Just because a person loved fkin you at one time does not mean they will feel that way in 15 years. I think Sarah said it best on this subject, and I agree. You simply don't know what you are going to do or feel like doing 20 years down the road. Women who do on purpose to 'pretend" I can see as being frauds, but how many guys 'pretend' to be faithful and family oriented, til things don't go their way? It takes two. I don't condone lying, but I also don't condone unhappiness. I find the excuses to be endless, and tiring. Every one of us, has a choice...end of story. Staying with a woman/man you can't stand because of the children is NEVER doing them any favors.

you cannot speak for any woman.  I have never heard another woman say that she had sex out of rebellion.  Because it feels good, as an emotional connection to her partner, to get pregnant, even as manipualtion... but never rebellion. That would be like a 15year old girl kind of reasoning - not a woman.

But I don't let that dictate my thinking, unlike a 15year old boy. I said many Women. I didn't say all Women.

Let us not forget, the majority of Women are atracted to the rebellious male (the bad boy). While the majority of Men are attracted to the protective female (the nurturing woman).  Read this very board for plenty of these examples.

I told my wife but it didn't seem to help. Somewhere along the line you get tired of asking. Now I am still a fit guy and she has put on a few pounds, so she probably has some confidence issues. When we got married 30 years ago, she was a racehorse and wanted sex more than I. Somewhere along the line (50 or so) she just started losing interest. Now I won't leave my wife for "Suzy" as we have many common interests and continue to have some sex. But let's be honest. Sex with someone for 30 years compared to  sex with at provider are two different things. The escape, the sex, the thrill, without the commitment are why most play the game.  Also, some of us men have a need to test the waters. When you are with some of the most beautiful women, it is hard not like that.

It's the going in knowing is what I get pissed about. And plenty of people know themselves...the ladies and men who know they get tired after a short period of time and those that know that commitment is never going to work...personally, just grow a pair (balls and lady balls ) and be honest...yeah I know, that's not going to happen any time soon.

Because she know she's given her last blow job.

...an old joke, but just thought I'd toss it in.

I can't thank you enough for your open responses, thought provoking insight and brutal honesty. I was wrong, many men do tell their wives they are unsatisfied. That makes me happy. It gives me hope that one day I will have a wonderful man in my life that will communicate his needs to me and notify me if I am not meeting them.

Some might disagree with me but I feel the hobby is the respectful way of getting your needs and desires met. Many have wives they they are still madly in love with and children that are small and need their family together. Actually any situation is custom fitted. So instead of having an affair with Suzy the receptionist, you seek a provider, and for that gentlemen I truly thank you!

Much Love,
Vanessa