I've been sexually active for over four decades. In that time, I never once experienced a situation where it was acceptable, by any stretch of the imagination, to coerce a woman into doing something she didn't want to do. That includes drunk college girls, one-night stands, LT girlfriends, (ex) wife, and providers.
In fact, the drunker or more vulnerable a woman might be (even if she's just emotionally or financially vulnerable), the more it falls on you to act like a gentleman and look out for her well being, not figure out ways to take advantage of her.
This may be P4P, but there's nothing clever or macho about trying to push ANY woman out of her comfort zone. That especially applies to providers because you don't know each other and you represent a potential threat until you've proven otherwise. Women have boundaries to protect themselves, and frankly, they're protecting themselves from men with your attitude. As others have posted, it's a fine line between coercing and rape, and you don't want to be on the wrong side of that line- especially since you don't get to make the call, she does.
Maybe if you practice acting like a gentleman instead of scheming, this will cease to be a big concern for you.
Most young providers may have a lot of "don'ts" and "restrictions".
But as they stay longer in the biz over the years, they start to go out of their comfort zone and offer more on their menu.
I'm sure that the reason for them going of of their comfort zone are the hobbyist who ask them for certain services/fetish/etc and maybe even 'beg' for them to do it. Some for a $ tip or other reasons.
So, please share your experience about how you got a lady to go out of her comfort zone and get them to do what you wanted. 
If a lady tells you she's not into something, don't try to pressure her to do it anyway. If she relents and "allows" it, would it really give you pleasure knowing you had made her feel mentally and/or physically uncomfortable?
If she wants to adjust her own boundaries as time passes, she will. Don't be "that guy" who made her feel like she betrayed herself.
a few clients right now who I otherwise like but are trying to get me to do stuff I don't want to do. And now I don't want to see them anymore.
Just enjoy our time together. If you want something I don't provide, then go somewhere else. And it's one thing to mention it a time or two. It's quite another to constantly be pressuring someone the entire date.
Think about something that extends beyond your boundaries- be it going to a PTA meeting with the provider, having a large dildo shoved up your ass, or wearing a diaper and pissing yourself. Now imagine if the provider spent your entire date trying to convince you that you should do that thing, that it would be so fun, and hell she'd even give you a discount for the session. She could also throw in the implication that other guys did that with her, and maybe she wouldn't even see you anymore if you didn't as well. How would that make you feel?
Very nice said, I applaud you.
I agree; it's about mutual pleasure. I always ask what the limits are. I find it builds trust and a mutually enjoyable experience for all concerned. That's the fun for me.
No means no, if she has a rule she has it for a reason. It may be for her safety, her piece of mind, to maintain boundaries, or she may not like to do certain things. Begging, offering tips, and other ways of getting her to expand her menu are rude, tacky, and often degrading. Those trying get a lady to expand her "menu" often find their way on to a providers expanded DNS list. They also look desperate. If after awhile expand her offerings that is her business. If you want to do X and a provider does not offer X, instead trying push that provider into doing something she does not want to do, find a lady who will do X. Don't be that guy, my wife hates that guy, and I want to beat the shit out of that guy.
if you weren't married to a provider,you wouldn't have anything to worry about,now would you!
Wtf,,besides being pushed past her limits,did you ever consider what else could happen to her???
If you reallyloved her,you would grow some nads and tell her to quit!
-- Modified on 10/25/2010 9:38:46 AM
Lolk who thinks he has earned the right to tell "anyone" else they need to "grow some nads".
What a pathetic post, by a pathetic little man.
I worry about it all the time. One of the worse things that that could happen to a provider has happened to her; She was drugged, raped, robbed, and then driven out to the dessert and left to die. If there is a next time she might not live to tell the tale. She could also get an incurable STD like HIV, hepatitis, or herpes. I have begged her to stop. I offered to hire her at my business, to find her a job and to let her just stay home. There is very little I would not give to get her out of the business. But other than leaving her I have no control of her actions. I love my wife and would do almost anything for her. She has her reasons for her choice to provide and that is between me and her.
And who are you to tell me to grow some nads? You don't have the nads to post this shit under your real fake name. Where do you get off telling me I don't love my wife? You don't know me and you don't know my wife. You are just a judgmental fool who likely would not recognize real love if it bit you in the ass. So FUCK OFF you piece of shit. You type shit about things you know nothing about. FUCK YOU!!!!!
they are sadly fucking mistaken.
I may even change my opinion about Scoed after ths. IMO well said Scoed, even an asshole like me can't find a single thing to find fault with in re to your post.
I wish I could reveal the true identity of the little fuckning cunt hiding behind the alias, but my brother GaGambler won't let me, something about TER rules and such. Who ever thought he would be a stickler about shit like that? lol
AAR, well said. If you don't watch out, you are going to lose than mangina label.
There are only a few things that get me truly upset and he found one of them. You would have had to pull what I typed the first time. I pulled it before I posted it to save you effort. Don't worry I will do something to maintain my mangina title. I just can't help myself.
I am making a public apology to scoed for my rude post.
Not sure why i even made the rude remarks?
I'm just gonna man-up and let the chips fall where they may.
I'm sorry scoed.
Wtf,,besides being pushed past her limits,did you ever consider what else could happen to her???
If you reallyloved her,you would grow some nads and tell her to quit!
Thanks for owning your post. It took guts. No hard feelings.
The word you are searching for is called rape. Remember, I know who you are.
this guy scares me, and i'm terrified for any poor provider unfortunate enough to land in a room alone with him. *shivers*
Half way into his post I saw it coming. The sad thing is that there are a lot of guys out there just like him, and they are the one's who start rumors about providers, the bad kinda rumors!
Sometimes, for a variety of reasons, providers particularly do not seek justice when they have been sexually assaulted. I think that is a horrible shame. It is a double-shame because the lack of reporting can embolden the evil. I think it is important for evil-doers to grasp that lack of reportage to civil authorities does not equate to lack of consequences.
I am going to point this out next time something similar happens to me.
'specially that little smiley face at the end of a post asking for stories about turning young girls out.
Maybe some day you'll be in a similar position as those girls... except in prison.
HalfHour
What a wierd question? Why are you looking for tips to get girls to do things for you that they don't want to? I mean really??
I've been sexually active for over four decades. In that time, I never once experienced a situation where it was acceptable, by any stretch of the imagination, to coerce a woman into doing something she didn't want to do. That includes drunk college girls, one-night stands, LT girlfriends, (ex) wife, and providers.
In fact, the drunker or more vulnerable a woman might be (even if she's just emotionally or financially vulnerable), the more it falls on you to act like a gentleman and look out for her well being, not figure out ways to take advantage of her.
This may be P4P, but there's nothing clever or macho about trying to push ANY woman out of her comfort zone. That especially applies to providers because you don't know each other and you represent a potential threat until you've proven otherwise. Women have boundaries to protect themselves, and frankly, they're protecting themselves from men with your attitude. As others have posted, it's a fine line between coercing and rape, and you don't want to be on the wrong side of that line- especially since you don't get to make the call, she does.
Maybe if you practice acting like a gentleman instead of scheming, this will cease to be a big concern for you.
I've never ever forced any lady to do what she does not want.
And shame on you Phil for even insinuating this question has anything to do rape.
Just shame on you! All ladies I've seen like me 100%. In fact, they love me to death.
Now, let me rephrase the question for those of you who did not understand my question.
The question was how you ask ladies "politely" and in a very "civilized" manner what you want .. something that they may not be offering because they felt that was out of their zone. But then, they become open minded and suddenly did it .. because you were so nice to them. This has never been an issue of 'force' or anything remote to that. What I'm talking about is that how ladies change their mind and became suddenly open to the idea.
It's really how skillful a gentleman is that ladies suddenly saw 'a lightbulb' and says "I'm happy to do that for you, even though I've not done it before, but yes let's try that'. That was the question. It's really a question about ladies thinking they didn't like the idea, but because you were so nice and convincing - they willingly opened their mind and enjoyed the brand-new first time experience with you.
For example - I know one gent here who is my friend and he likes CIM and COF .. and he has convinced some young ladies to do it even thought they didn't do it before. Did he force them? Hell no. He asked nicely and I know the ladies like him. That's what I'm getting at. So, yes - the guy has skills. And of course, he's not successful all the time.
Another example (for those of you who have no imagination). There are ladies who do not BBBJ and only CBJ (because BBBJ is out of their comfort zone). Then as you see them often, you ask very politely them again if they can open their mind to BBBJ. And then they say Yes. I've seen reviews here at TER that this kind of thing happens. That's the kind of question I'm asking - how did you convince your ladies to do that.
She does it on her own or it shouldn't happen. You can polity ask but if she declines drop it and don't bring it up again. Anything more is just being rude and disrespectful to her. She has her reasons for her rules and we need to respect that. It truly is a respect thing. Treat the ladies with respect good things can happen, but it is not your place to expand her "menu". She will do it on her own or not. Men who try to talk a lady into things she does not offer are losers who need to get kicked in the head repetitively until they learn proper respect for a lady. A service I will gladly provide.
In the spirit of this political season you should have used the phrase " I misspoke" . If you have such a problem expressing you self correctly when you have unlimited time to formulate you words, then how are you going to be able to express yourself in the heat of passion properly.
You sir ( and I use that term very loosely) are a very scary individual and will soon be on every DNS list there is, deservedly so.
I'm trying really hard not to justify asking Admin to flip your alias (again), as protection to all the ladies that you might want to try and convince to do something that they don't want to do, because you're so nice. Yeah, shame on me. That's fucking rich.
I would flip this asshole's alias if I could. Don't try to hard not to bring it to Admin to flip it. People like him make my wifes life difficult and uncomfortable. There are guys like him that should be real glad my wife don't name name's, because things would become very uncomfortable and difficult for them if I knew who they where. I am very protective of my wife. There are few things that really bother me and people pressuring others to do sexual acts they are not comfortable with is one of them. The ladies need to be warned about people like him.
Let's grant for the moment that you are the world's foremost authority on what you intend; and the rest of us not being mind readers -- things are as you say: that we misinterpreted your intent. Fair enough.
One reason this could be is that maybe we are generally aware of factors that you are not; or have at least given consideration to things that perhaps you have accepted without question.
There is a difference between a provider and a civie. Yes, I realize that in some contexts civies are essentially prostitutes and providers are civies. BUT -- within the context in which YOU see providers, they are NOT civies.
The tell-tale giveaway is that you provide cash money AND the person is using a Fake Name.
Just a basic hint -- if you have to pay them for sex, they do NOT love you in a romantic sense; and if they use a Fake Name with you -- no matter what else they may say, at some level they do NOT trust you.
Let me drive that point home to you again: the woman does not love you, and she does not trust you. (1)
Let me contrast that with a civie.
A civie can certainly have sex sans love; but in general she will reserve sex at least for someone who she thinks has the possibility of being worthy of love. Furthermore, you know her name, her address, her employer, where she went to school, often her parents, etc. There is a level of TRUST there.
Assuming that you are being honest about your intentions; you have seriously mistaken the difference in the situation with a civie and a provider.
By all means, with a civie, you can reasonably expect that in a committed, supportive and loving relationship where both people know and love each other, that partners will be willing to extend themselves beyond their typical comfort zone for little more than the asking. Perhaps there will be some negotiation, etc. And sometimes there will even then be outright refusal, and continued insistence could damage the relationship. But at least within such an environment, it is reasonable to TRY.
But, consider for a moment an entirely different kind of relationship -- one where the woman gives you a fake name, obscures even basic facts about herself (including age, etc.), you have no clue where she lives, you'll never meet her parents, etc. She doesn't trust you as far as she can throw you because while you were in the restroom, she was counting the money to make sure you weren't shorting her.
Why did she give you a fake name? Come on. Think about it. Yes, I realize the fake names serve many purposes. But in all of those other purposes if she felt the man could be trusted, she would reveal her real name to him when he entered. She gave you a fake name because she wants to keep you from stalking, threatening or otherwise molesting her. She wants -- nay, NEEDS -- to be COMPLETELY IN CONTROL, even of basic communications, in order to feel even marginally safe.
That means she is just a single wrong move away from feeling that you pose an eminent THREAT.
A person who is one step away from feeling you to pose an eminent threat is going to see your question in an entirely different light. Her comfort zone is hers and hers alone. Even the SUGGESTION of compromising that zone, via ANY means, is tantamount to her feeling a sacred space has been violated.
Look, I dunno who you are. Maybe you are just some wet-behind-the-ears newbie and you are unfamiliar with the GFE.
The GFE is an act. A total absolute act. (2) For all you know, the second you walk out the door she is washing her mouth out with Comet and projectile vomiting. Human beings did not evolve to separate well between visually implanted memories of things that are fictitious and things that are real.
But let me explain something. In the real world with a civie you aren't paying, circumstances similar to a GFE generally will prevail once a whole bunch of prerequisites are met. So sex with a civie is confirmation of an already existing situation. In fact, research indicates that one reason why men have a drive for sex with their wives is their need for sex as confirmation of their continued value to the woman. In the real world, then, sex is not the means -- it is an end that demonstrates your value.
In the hobby world, the GFE is just an act. It is provided without regard to whatever virtues you might possess simply in exchange for cold hard cash; and it is generally provided by someone who doesn't even trust you with the most basic information you would get from a civie.
The GFE, however, can easily be misinterpreted as having the same value as civie sex -- that is, as confirmation of the woman valuing the man.
Because sex existed in our evolution for millions of years with certain meanings; whereas money has existed for only a short time (just a few hundred years for most of us) and the GFE for even less ... some men are simply not equipped to be able to distinguish between the various meanings of sex within a p4p context without instruction or experience.
So you are reacting to a provider and the GFE as though you were dealing with a civie having sex. It is not the same thing. (3)
In addition to some providers seeing your suggestion as threatening; some hobbyists will also see your suggestion as threatening because they are intimately familiar with providers because they are married to current or former providers, or personally know providers who have been pushed out of their comfort zones and suffered for it.
These providers and hobbyists are not going to react to your suggestion kindly.
It is important to know and understand your audience. It is very easy to be misunderstood in an environment where there may be a large body of assumed knowledge, there is a constant sense of potential danger, and the somatic components of your communications are necessarily missing.
(1) I realize that there are situations with polyamorous providers, certain sorts of courtesans and also friendships that develop from time to time between providers and hobbyists in which these conditions are different. So I know I am not speaking about ALL situations. But I am definitely describing the preponderance of transactions within the "hobby."
(2) I realize that in the cases of some providers generally due to their mindset and methods of selecting clients, it is not an act. And I also realize that there are particular provider/hobbyist combinations where it may not be an act. But, in general, according to postings by many providers, it IS an act. That is not an adverse value judgment.
(3) In same cases it is close to the real thing; but these are exceptional cases, not the rule.
I'm sure there are lots of people who get off on pushing the boundaries of each other's comfort zones. Discomfort can be intense and that intensity can be channelled into sexual play. If you're interested in that aspect of the hobby, look for ladies who are likewise oriented.
As for me, I'm a big fan of comfort. When a lady is comfortable with herself and with me and vice versa, that's when I find that things heat up a bit. I spent 30 years trying in the classroom trying to get people to do things they didn't want to do, I really don't want to continue that in my hobbying experience!
Isn't this what YMMV is all about? Isn't making the lady comfortable with you one of the strategies the OP is asking about???
There is certainly something repulsive about how the OP worded his question, I am not saying that. What I am saying is that there is a line where one crosses over into the other and we all need to be careful. I think this is like the definition of porn, whoever that Supreme Court Justice was. I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it.
IMO, cajoling and wheedling certainly cross the line, and I will certainly accept any hot services rendered because she is comfortable with me. I don;t think a strategy of making comfortable (so that she will do as much as possible) crosses the line, but is the difference just the clients motivation??? I don't think so.
or begged, or insisted. By the time I'm done reading reviews, I'm pretty sure that the lady is going to be offering everything that I'll be expecting. If my actions, or requests are going to make her uncomfortable, then the whole date is going to go downhill...Not good for either of us.
"Most young providers may have a lot of "don'ts" and "restrictions"
A good ass licking has changed many a mind.
I read the juicy details, and its pretty simple. If she offers cbj and I want a bbbj I just move on.
IF I'm in the mood for cim or cof, than I see a lady who offers such services. Now has a lady ever offered me services that I didn't think was on the menu? The answer is yes, but I didn't ask or try and convince her to offer these services. In the heat of the session she just decided to perform these activities. I don't see "young" providers I prefer to be with milfs, so maybe that has soemthing to do with it. And I never would write about those activities that came as a surprise or as I like think of it a gift.
I am with the overwhelming majority above answering your post today that feel that there is enough information on this website in order for you to make a clear and rational decision as to who you will see and who you wont depending on their already established "comfort" boundaries.
That decision making process is easily accomplished by reading the reviews and individual websites of the ladies that happen to appeal to your interest.
As mentioned above, If you want bbbj and she offers covered then you move on. If you are interested in anal and she doesn't offer such then you move on.
Maybe you considered the possibility of an idiot posting and passing on his "good fortune" in bending a ladies comfort level to the point that he attained bbfs for an extra much needed $ tip.
Seeing the lady and in a short time building a trust to the point that they, as you say, "love me to death" then pushing (by asking so nicely) to relax a comfort rule of theirs has already been answered in opposition above by the best of the best.
It is taking advantage of the lady.
The original question asked as well as the subsequent rephrase remains disrespectful in my opinion.
You DO NOT cajole, beg, or offer a lady $ for shit that is out of her comfort zone. There's a reason why her menu is posted on her web site and/or TER page.
Granted, after knowing certain ladies for quite a while, I have asked them how come they don't do this or that. Not for my benefit, or I'm trying to set them up for it. We're just talking 'shop' and they give me an honest answer as to why. I have to respect that, and so should you.
I agree with RG and HH. If you're in the mood for Greek, go find a lady that clearly states she does Greek. If you want BBBJ, check out the ones you know do BBBJ.
With all the tools that TER and other sites provide(yeah, I know!), anyone should be able to find what they're looking for without setting themselves and the ladies up for something that could turn out to be a very uncomfortable situation.
Oh, I get it. You're expecting 'WTF you fucking douchebag! You don't fucking ask a lady to fuck her in her fucking ass when she fucking doesn't want your infantile penis in there trying to push her fucking shit in'.
Is that what you're talking about?
Or how about 'You fucking suck , you fucking pussy! The lady doesn't want to taste your dick if she doesn't do BBBJ cuz she's heard about you and what you do with the family pets, you sick fucking bastard!'.
Yeah, I admit, I've toned shit down a bit lately. Not out of boredom, or disrespect, or fucking anything like that. Just thought it would be strange for someone to open my post and say 'huh?'.
Throwing curves, man. Gotta fuckin' appreciate that! 
I made implied threats to kick peoples ass and then and you come in all mellow. WTF is going on. Things are backward.
Little do they know, while you're kicking him in the head, I'm kicking him in the nuts.
Isn't that the reason for review boards like TER - to see what a provider will and will not do? If she won't do what you want then go find someone who will. Me, I prefer to have an enjoyable time when I'm out with a lady, but just as importantly I want HER to enjoy being with me too.
I think that's the issue here. Seems most of the folks here don't want to get others to do what they want or be cajoled, bribed, or manipulated into doing things they don't want to do.
If you find a situation in which you really like a lady but she doesn't offer some service that you are interested in, then (as was mentioned several times) just ask once and let that be it. Maybe it'll happen after a few sessions, maybe not. In my case, a couple of ladies have offered things that they normally don't because it was something I'd never done before and they liked me enough to want to offer that to me. No manipulation or bribery, just friendship and horniness.
Also, turn-about is fair play. How would you feel if a lady asked you to do something with which you are uncomfortable? What if she offered a discount if you did it? Sexy? I'm guessing not.
when I see young girls with really extensive menus it makes me depressed. I saw an 18 year old advertise golden showers (both ways) and cum feeding, and I got sick to my stomach knowing that some old pervert would probably take her up on it.
boundaries are different than yours doesn't make her someone to be pitied, no more than it makes her someone to be coerced. Sounds like SHE is the "pervert".
Based on reviews she seems to be managed, and even if she wasn't.. She's straight out of high school. I don't feel comfortable with that whole situation. Sorry. I don't think she's doing it because she wants to.
Plenty of women are kinky out of high school. There are all sorts of fetishes out there. Some I "get", some I don't, but it's not my place to judge what gets someone else off.... or yours. I mean, hell, look where we are.
It really irks me when members of a community that should be sex-positive and open-minded seek to place judgment on what goes on in someone else's bedroom.
It rarely even suprises me any more, but like you it does irk me.
It seems like anything that surpasses one's own personal boundary is behavior that is either forced, too demeaning, or should be prohibited. Where people get off many moral judgements for others, especially on a forum such as this one, is beyond me.
I will confess to making fun of people who are kinkier than me, you know the real freaks like mrfisher. lol but I would never think to tell even the "sexual freaks" out there that they should have the same rights as consenting adults that I do.
Ladies have told me that I am "one of the good ones" most likely because of people like you. Although I hope the standard is higher than that.
If a gentleman can not respect me and my limitations, he goes straight to my 'NO' list. I'm not pushing hime beyond his comfort zone. There are pleanty of nice, respectful gentlemen out there, I don't need to see the rude and disrespectful ones.